Topic: race tuner questions (Read 3666 times)

103_RK · « **on:** August 02, 2006, 07:03:43 AM »

I have a 03 SE Road King with a race tuner. I changed from Rinehart True Duals to V&H Bigshot Duals with Thunder Monster baffles. The bike ran OK but would run sluggishly between 1800 and 2000 rpm. I kept adjusting the fuel between 1500 and 2000 rpm from 0 to 30% throttle. It runs much better now. Why is the rear cylinder VE table so much less than the front. I would have thought it would be more fuel in the rear since it would run hotter than the front. Also I have a Daytona twintec scan tool. I was looking at the rear cylinder timing yesterday and saw where there was a small amount of detonation. The twintec shoed where the knock sensor retarded the timing. THis wasn't ever the case before. Is this a fuel or timing issue? I hate to start on the wrong table. It still hiccups slightly when accelerating from 1800 to 2000. I know some say I shouldn't run below 2000 but I always have and it used to run fine there. Also when I am at idle, I can hear a different sound from the left and right pipes, it sounds like the rear cylinder is running slower than the front. Maybe I am just paranoid but I would like to get this corrected befor going to the fall rally at Myrtle Beach in October.

syclone · « **Reply #1 on:** August 02, 2006, 07:56:35 AM »

The rear VE's are different in the SERT map for your RK because the stock system which splits the exhaust 75 % right and 25 % left causes the rear cylinder to be scavanged less than the front. The rear also runs hotter so it needs LESS fuel..different timing.
Dont know what version SERT you have...but since you are running true duals..If you can..try loading the map for an SE 103 Fat Boy.
Cut the target AF's down to 13.9 anywhere they are higher...dont touch the timing tables.
Cut the Decel Enleanment values by at least 50 % for decel popping with the Thunder monsters...if it pops..reduce them some more.

103_RK · « **Reply #2 on:** August 02, 2006, 10:54:10 AM »

Cyclone, The map I have came from HD Maps for a 103" 2001 to 2004 FLHTCSE with the SE air cleaner and Rinehart true duals. It was for duals without the factory pipes. Would you still reccomend the fatboy map? I don't mind expirementing. I have Race Tuner version 4.1.2. I am afraid of detonation, so I don't mess with timing. I have been adjusting the feul by the front and rear VE tables.
Thanks

syclone · « **Reply #3 on:** August 04, 2006, 07:25:50 AM »

Sure...try the Fat boy map..if you compare it to the canned flhtcse2 map in the SERT you will see the big differences in the VE and timing tables. just may cure your low rpm concerns.
you can always go back to the HD Maps load. you will not hurt anything...and it's FREE!

jdracing · « **Reply #4 on:** August 04, 2006, 08:16:01 PM »

That's the map I'm running on my SEEG with V&H Dresser Duals, Samson Rolled Thunders, and a Ness Big Sucker. Modified as suggested by Syclone. Have to work really hard to make it ping audibly (like lug it in 5th at 20 MPH--I was trying to see if I could do it). Performs much better than the canned map (I have the same version SERT as you) for the stock headers, SE Mufflers, and SE air cleaner.

103_RK · « **Reply #5 on:** August 05, 2006, 05:04:57 AM »

JDRacing, I am going to try the Fatboy map if one more thing doesn't work out. I found out my injector setting in the ECM Tuning COnstants table was 4.18 and supposed to be 4.35. After changing this setting, I now need to go back where I started to make sure that wasn't the problem. I will probably change to the Fatboy map this afternoon.

Unbalanced · « **Reply #6 on:** August 05, 2006, 04:17:11 PM »

Some of the guys are changing the injectors to 4.22 instead of 4.35. This was seen in maps by HD Maps (matt g). I ran it for a while on my wifes bike and my only complaint is the Fuel tables are all over the place as were the VE Tables. Personally I prefer to see set F/A tables such as 14 to 1 at 20 perecent down to 12.8 or 12.6 at WOT (100 perecnt)

Then tune the bike based on Volumetric Efficiency and timing.

Works much better and its much easier when you want to make subtle changes to know that your VE is correct. This is generally done by making all the tables X number than using VE to get there. If you get there when you say I want 14 to 1 later all i do then is adjust the A/F and i know its right because the Volumetric efficiencies are already right.

-harry

103_RK · « **Reply #7 on:** August 05, 2006, 09:37:53 PM »

I tried the fatboy map and it wasn't better than mine. I has an ecm failure and had to take the bike to the harley dealer. I am close with my map. It still stumbles a little between 1750 and 2000 rpms. I may let the harley dealer look at the map since the bike is there anyway. I think my extended warrenty will cover the ecm. I hope they will do something about the race tuner. I am not sure the race tuner will work with a new ecm I know the race tuner marries itself to the ecm. I think it uses the vin number and may work with the new one.

Unbalanced · « **Reply #8 on:** August 06, 2006, 12:22:41 AM »

If your stuck let me know I have a few maps you can try only takes a few minutes to setup / download / go for a ride

PM me with an email address or phone number, if you want to give one a try for the SERT.

-harry

103_RK · « **Reply #9 on:** August 06, 2006, 03:43:41 AM »

email is scon@comcast.net. What does "PM me" mean?

syclone · « **Reply #10 on:** August 06, 2006, 09:32:28 AM »

pm = personal message

Unbalanced · « **Reply #11 on:** August 06, 2006, 09:38:24 PM »

I will send them off to you tomorrow. Check your mail around noon EST.

-harry

103_RK · « **Reply #12 on:** August 07, 2006, 05:19:15 AM »

Thanks Unbalanced. Hopefully the new ecm will be in soon and I can be riding.

porthole · « **Reply #13 on:** August 07, 2006, 10:12:16 AM »

Quote

porthole · « **Reply #14 on:** August 07, 2006, 10:20:34 AM »

Harry - Syclone

How familiar are you guys with the SERT mods?

I am thinking that when I get my bike back (2 weeks now for a stupid bent valve) I want to make any changes that will help lower the rear cylinder temp.

I believe that my engine problem is due to the higher heat levels in the rear cylinder allowing the oil to coke and gum up, especially in th eguide and the valve bent because of the gummed up guide. The bike was not fully warmed up yet and that is the only thing that makes sense.

There are no SERT tuners around here so I am making any changes myself. Right now I am using the recommend map with the only change being to lower the rev limit.

map = 05 FLHTCSE2 #13 127HX022

Bike is stock except for SE air cleaner and V&H ovals With duals

Thanks

RJ749 · « **Reply #15 on:** August 07, 2006, 10:57:49 AM »

Quote

[highlight]There are no SERT tuners around here so I am making any changes myself[/highlight]. Right now I am using the recommend map with the only change being to lower the rev limit.
Thanks

Porthole, here's a link to tuners in NJ.

jdracing · « **Reply #16 on:** August 07, 2006, 02:30:43 PM »

Duane, here's a link to a thread Syclone started last year (I see you actually responded at the time).

porthole · « **Reply #17 on:** August 09, 2006, 07:03:00 PM »

Syclone

To make sure I am clear here on the decel.

I am playing around with the fatboy map now, when you say change the decel enleanment by 50% do you mean change the the current numbers from: .60 to .30, .55 to .27 etc.?

For starters I am also going to change any AFR above 14 to 14.0 or 13.9, whichever it will allow.

Thanks

porthole · « **Reply #18 on:** August 09, 2006, 07:04:06 PM »

Quote

Porthole, here's a link to tuners in NJ.

jdracing · « **Reply #19 on:** August 09, 2006, 07:38:00 PM »

Duane, don't mean to answer for Syclone, but that's what I did to that map.

Unbalanced · « **Reply #20 on:** August 10, 2006, 12:31:10 AM »

Porthole,

I have a couple of maps I have sent to others from the base tune to the 575 cam change to a headwork / 657 or 625 cams depending on needs. I am sure if you want a map or 2 to look at to compare I can send them to you.

-harry

porthole · « **Reply #21 on:** August 10, 2006, 07:43:57 AM »

Quote

Porthole,

I am sure if you want a map or 2 to look at to compare I can send them to you.

Hey Harry - if your offering I'm accepting

the O`Fender · « **Reply #22 on:** August 10, 2006, 11:42:57 AM »

Porthole
If you don't mind taking a little ride, the guy who squeezed 105/105 hp/tq out of my scooter is working at Crossroads HD in Allentown PA and he is quite proficent using RT. If your interested PM me, I'd be glad to take a ride up their and introduce ya to him. He has satisfied more than a few customers. [smiley=pumpkin.gif]

syclone · « **Reply #23 on:** August 10, 2006, 03:25:55 PM »

Quote

Syclone

To make sure I am clear here on the decel.

I am playing around with the fatboy map now, when you say change the decel enleanment by 50% do you mean change the the current numbers from: .60 to .30, .55 to .27 etc.?

For starters I am also going to change any AFR above 14 to 14.0 or 13.9, whichever it will allow.

Thanks

Correct on the decel enleanment....the higher the number there ..the more "enleanment" or fuel removal on throttle roll-off to transition to idle.. chop the numbers by at least half to leave more fuel in to make it too rich to pop.

Unbalanced · « **Reply #24 on:** August 11, 2006, 02:51:14 PM »

Porthole,

Please PM me or Email me at cvoseeg@bellsouth.net with your email address and I will send ya out a few maps to try.

Actually still having lots of issues with my knee, but other than that I am feeling pretty good. I am hoping they dont have to scope my knee, but its looking more and more like its going to be the answer.

Since they put a titanium rod into my leg I can have another MRI, but the consensus so far is that its going to take a peek to really know why its popping and and not allowing me to bend at the knee cap.

-harry

103_RK · « **Reply #25 on:** August 14, 2006, 07:28:55 AM »

To update this post, I got the bike back. It ran like crap. The ecm is a new version so I now have to load files for a 2005 bike. The part that kind of pisses me off is that I had to buy a new race tuner. Harley would not do anything (except my local dealer gave me my HOG discount). Even though the race tuner was not the problem. The bike ran bad because they installed the stage 1 download for my bike. They were afraid to install my map. When I got home I found that my map was the wrong file format because of the 2005 ECM. They probably would not have taken the time to copy the tables over. Even though they charged 1 hour labor to install the race tuner. It takes 5 minutes, they didn't load the software, only the race tuner so they could install the map. I now have a race tuner version 4.5.3. I know I could have went aftermarket but since Harley is so funny, I would still rather have the stock ECM. I am still trying to get the thing to run correctly at 1700 to just under 2000 rpm. I am starting to wonder if it is timing? I looked at stock and stage 1 maps, they seem to be advanced on timing from the map I had from HD Maps with the Rinehart true duals I had on the bike. I have some maps Harry sent me but after almost $700 just spent, I am almost scared to mess with it. If anything else happens, I will probably go with an aftermarket ECM like the new one from Zippers. Thanks to all for the help.

Author Topic: race tuner questions (Read 3666 times)