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[Hoist!]

Hey Gang! Call me Hoist. I'm from NYC. I've been lurking the past week to try to pick up some common ideas, upgrades and problems with the SE CVO's. I just ordered my '07FLHRSE3 a few weeks ago and it's coming in Phase 3 (Feb). I've had 4 FLHR's since '95 (all carb models) and use them for travelling. I've left them all pretty much stock and have traded them in every couple of years for a new one. I have a '85 FXWG (4-speed Evo, 80" with hopped-up top end, shovelhead bottom end) Bike runs high 12's. I also have an 89" Evo ProStreet (about 425 lbs) that runs in the 11's. I try to keep the performance work to these 2 bikes. My trip bike (FLHR) is usually kept relatively stock. When I saw the '07 SERK (factory hot rod trip bike) I had to order it! And I will be keeping this one! Three keepers should be enough but you just never know! That brings me to my questions.

You all seem to upgrade with the same mods. 575's, Air Cleaner, Exhaust (true duals vs. slip-ons),SERT or TMAX, Fueling oil pump and lifters, Zipper's bypass, etc. I see you're all happy with these mods but the $$$$$ on top of $30K for the bike! I'm trying to avoid that and keep it simple. HD has basically had to set up their motors lean since the CV carb was introduced (EPA). Carb model Evo's were relatively simple to set-up to run decent (carb, ignition, air cleaner, and pipes). You went from 60HP to 75Hp and the bike ran smooth. With cam change, 80HP and pulled real well. Even my '96 FLHR with S&S carb, Supertrapps, and SE ignition ran high 13's at over 100 MPH.

The '07 110" SE motors are street legal motors, so they're inherently set up at the factory for EPA compliance. As with the earlier models, they need to be set up to "breath" properly. The basis for this engine should be decent if it's opened-up and should not require much. It already has a high-flo air cleaner, SE 255 cams (decent lift, crappy duration) 4' CVO Touring Mufflers. The biggest item missing (due to EPA Compliance) is proper fuel delivery.

My friend Dyno'd a stock '07SERK. 75HP and 90ft-lbs. He added pipes and Dynojet Power Commander and bingo, 92HP and 99ft-lbs. The numbers I'm seeing you guys show for all the additional work is yielding only a few more HP and ft-lbs for a lot more $$$. Going by $/HP formula, the additional items don't seem worth it for 700-800 lb rolling Barcoloungers. After all, they're still Touring Bikes and you're not breaking any land speed records. There are plenty of ways to spend money to go fast, but I'm trying to figure out how to squeeze the most out of the stock 110" engine for the least cost.

FINALLY MY QUESTION: Has anyone left an '07 SERK or CUSE alone except for the fuel delivery. It seems that the SERF (SE Race Fueler) should allow the additional fuel adjustment to properly set up the motor. With halfway decent cams, air cleaner and pipes as stock, this should get at least 85-90HP and 95ft-lbs and should pull OK. The SERF is only 200 bucks! Does this work? I've read about the stock ECM stochiometric mixture min. of 14.7. I think the stock ECM is set leaner than that and with other stock 110" components, the A/F ratio could be set through the SERF for better combustion efficiency. Since we already have open intake, pipes, and cams, AM I WRONG ABOUT THIS? Worst case, SERT or Power Commander to remap instead of just fuel adjustments, but has anyone done only this item and how do you feel about it?

You guys seem as passionate about your bikes as I am so I'm hoping to get some good input before just throwing $$$ at the problem. Ther seems to be some real good techs and "scientific" here and I'm looking forward to your responses.

Thanks for your help. HOIST!

[Rooster]

Welcome Hoist, seems whatever you decide to add you need a good tuner to really dial everything in. Even if you just add the fuel box because they usually give a base setting with the mods you have, I had a 00 road king with 95 in kit and heads then added techlusion fuel box which made a difference in performance and cost about five mpg but still needed fine tuned.

[Hoist!]

Thanks. With the A/F, mapping tweaks, I'm actually expecting to make the engine more efficient, thereby increasing fuel mileage in the process.

[skreminegul07]

The '07 110" SE motors are street legal motors, so they're inherently set up at the factory for EPA compliance. As with the earlier models, they need to be set up to "breath" properly. The basis for this engine should be decent if it's opened-up and should not require much. [highlight]It already has a high-flo air cleaner, [/highlight]SE 255 cams (decent lift, crappy duration) 4' CVO Touring Mufflers. The biggest item missing (due to EPA Compliance) is proper fuel delivery.

My friend Dyno'd a stock '07SERK. 75HP and 90ft-lbs. He added pipes and Dynojet Power Commander and bingo, 92HP and 99ft-lbs. The numbers I'm seeing you guys show for all the additional work is yielding only a few more HP and ft-lbs for a lot more $$$. Going by $/HP formula, the additional items don't seem worth it for 700-800 lb rolling Barcoloungers. After all, they're still Touring Bikes and you're not breaking any land speed records. There are plenty of ways to spend money to go fast, but I'm trying to figure out how to squeeze the most out of the stock 110" engine for the least cost.

FINALLY MY QUESTION: Has anyone left an '07 SERK or CUSE alone except for the fuel delivery. It seems that the SERF (SE Race Fueler) should allow the additional fuel adjustment to properly set up the motor. With halfway decent cams, air cleaner and pipes as stock, this should get at least 85-90HP and 95ft-lbs and should pull OK. The SERF is only 200 bucks! Does this work? I've read about the stock ECM stochiometric mixture min. of 14.7. I think the stock ECM is set leaner than that and with other stock 110" components, the A/F ratio could be set through the SERF for better combustion efficiency. Since we already have open intake, pipes, and cams, AM I WRONG ABOUT THIS? Worst case, SERT or Power Commander to remap instead of just fuel adjustments, but has anyone done only this item and how do you feel about it?

You guys seem as passionate about your bikes as I am so I'm hoping to get some good input before just throwing $$$ at the problem. Ther seems to be some real good techs and "scientific" here and I'm looking forward to your responses.

Thanks for your help. HOIST!
 

The High flow backing plate is factory, but the air filter element is not.  All you have to do is get a K&N filter HD-800 and you have it.
In addition, I put a set of older SE slip-ons and the Gen III Techclusion unit from Dobeck.  it is very easy to adjust without laptop, dyno etc.  I totally agree that the power gains from the simple changes yield the most bang for the buck and certainly is enough for my riding habits.  Any change away from factory EPA lean is going to cost you mileage.  Also as I have learned at this sight, the new 10% ethanol gas is not great for MPG and I also learned that it's shelf life is horrible.  Stabilizer must be used for winter storage if you live in a climate challenged area.  
You may want to consider adding the auxiliary lamps to the SERK.  The kit also moves the directional below the Aux. lamps and off of the handlebars.  This is a common upgrade from what I've experienced.  I installed my set last night.  It's very easy.  
What color are you buying?  I have the Candy Cobalt Blue.  You'll be happy riding one.  Even bone stock they are torky but very quiet and hot.  

[grc]

Hey Gang! Call me Hoist. I'm from NYC. I've been lurking the past week to try to pick up some common ideas, upgrades and problems with the SE CVO's. I just ordered my '07FLHRSE3 a few weeks ago and it's coming in Phase 3 (Feb). I've had 4 FLHR's since '95 (all carb models) and use them for travelling. I've left them all pretty much stock and have traded them in every couple of years for a new one. I have a '85 FXWG (4-speed Evo, 80" with hopped-up top end, shovelhead bottom end) Bike runs high 12's. I also have an 89" Evo ProStreet (about 425 lbs) that runs in the 11's. I try to keep the performance work to these 2 bikes. My trip bike (FLHR) is usually kept relatively stock. When I saw the '07 SERK (factory hot rod trip bike) I had to order it! And I will be keeping this one! Three keepers should be enough but you just never know! That brings me to my questions.

You all seem to upgrade with the same mods. 575's, Air Cleaner, Exhaust (true duals vs. slip-ons),SERT or TMAX, Fueling oil pump and lifters, Zipper's bypass, etc. I see you're all happy with these mods but the $$$$$ on top of $30K for the bike! I'm trying to avoid that and keep it simple. HD has basically had to set up their motors lean since the CV carb was introduced (EPA). Carb model Evo's were relatively simple to set-up to run decent (carb, ignition, air cleaner, and pipes). You went from 60HP to 75Hp and the bike ran smooth. With cam change, 80HP and pulled real well. Even my '96 FLHR with S&S carb, Supertrapps, and SE ignition ran high 13's at over 100 MPH.

The '07 110" SE motors are street legal motors, so they're inherently set up at the factory for EPA compliance. As with the earlier models, they need to be set up to "breath" properly. The basis for this engine should be decent if it's opened-up and should not require much. It already has a high-flo air cleaner, SE 255 cams (decent lift, crappy duration) 4' CVO Touring Mufflers. The biggest item missing (due to EPA Compliance) is proper fuel delivery.

[highlight]My friend Dyno'd a stock '07SERK. 75HP and 90ft-lbs. He added pipes and Dynojet Power Commander and bingo, 92HP and 99ft-lbs. The numbers I'm seeing you guys show for all the additional work is yielding only a few more HP and ft-lbs for a lot more $$$. Going by $/HP formula, the additional items don't seem worth it for 700-800 lb rolling Barcoloungers. After all, they're still Touring Bikes and you're not breaking any land speed records.[/highlight] There are plenty of ways to spend money to go fast, but I'm trying to figure out how to squeeze the most out of the stock 110" engine for the least cost.

FINALLY MY QUESTION: Has anyone left an '07 SERK or CUSE alone except for the fuel delivery. It seems that the SERF (SE Race Fueler) should allow the additional fuel adjustment to properly set up the motor. With halfway decent cams, air cleaner and pipes as stock, this should get at least 85-90HP and 95ft-lbs and should pull OK. The SERF is only 200 bucks! Does this work? I've read about the stock ECM stochiometric mixture min. of 14.7. I think the stock ECM is set leaner than that and with other stock 110" components, the A/F ratio could be set through the SERF for better combustion efficiency. Since we already have open intake, pipes, and cams, AM I WRONG ABOUT THIS? Worst case, SERT or Power Commander to remap instead of just fuel adjustments, but has anyone done only this item and how do you feel about it?

You guys seem as passionate about your bikes as I am so I'm hoping to get some good input before just throwing $$$ at the problem. Ther seems to be some real good techs and "scientific" here and I'm looking forward to your responses.

Thanks for your help. HOIST!
 

Welcome Hoist,

The mods you noted, such as the 575 cams, were on 103's and weren't designed to achieve big peak numbers.

[Hoist!]

K&N, Slip-ons and A/F mods as I thought. Seat of the pants engineering. What feels right usually is. How about the heat? Did it cool off some after these changes?
I've had problems recently with the gas in my Pro Street turning bad too, so I know what you mean.
I ordered the Black Ice. I'm kinda old school. Harleys only come in black!
All my FLHR's had the light bars (stock) and will probably add that. I saw it in someone's photos here. I also have foglights on my RK for upstate riding. Do you think they'll squeeze-in on the moustache engine guard?
 Thanks for your response. Any other comments/suggestions are encouraged!

[Hoist!]

Thanks Jerry. My friend did his with slip-ons and power commander. The numbers weren't quite as high but the motor was freed-up. It still ran real hot though. Are true-duals the only way around this? This seems to only occur with FI. My carb bikes don't do this.

[grc]

Hoist,

If your friend used a traditional PC, without the O² eliminators, then he is still running too lean under steady throttle conditions (closed loop).

[Hoist!]

Thanks again. It seems that most people like the PC. How does this affect MoCo warranty, with Big Bro tying into your bike at servicing? Can it be removed easily before bringing the bike in, as if never installed?
Am I too optimistic looking for 90HP, 100ft-lb, good mid-range, and 40-45 MPG with just K&N and PC?
Any comments on the stock '07 4" CVO touring mufflers? Sound/performance?

[the O`Fender]

Hoist if you open the intake up some (K&N) and don't change the exhaust you aren't gonna see any real improvements in preformance, if your putting more air/fuel IN you gotta get more air out through a better exhaust system. The harley pipes choke this motor more than the inefficient air cleaner they use. [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
I installed D&D Fat Cat 2-1 ($600) K&N AC ($100) and Race Tuner ($375) plus a dyno tune ($300) to get 93/94 out of my 103". If you want the real seat of the pants improvement this is about as barebones as it gets (obviously the brands are not important and the dollars will only change slightly depending which you use). I have since changed my cam to a gear driven setup with an andrews 60G yielding 105/105 however I did the cam replacement more for reliability than for performance. The performance gains are just a real nice plus.

[Hoist!]

I was hoping those 4" CVO mufflers were halfway decent. Oh well. Back to basics. Exhaust system and air/fuel management.
How are the SE255 cams? I haven't had any problems with the stock chain drive cams on my '03RK. Do the bigger motors have problems with the chain drive/auto-tensioner?
Anyone know what size throttle body they used on the 110"?

[grc]

Hoist,

The '07's have the new cam chain and tensioner setup, which is supposed to be an improvement in durability over the old system.  Roller chain versus the old "silent" plate type chain, hydraulic tensioners versus the old spring type, and a different material for the tensioner shoes.  In theory, this should improve the premature wear problem.  In reality, it's too soon to be able to tell.

As for warranty, the PC is the easiest of the various tuning devices to remove, and it leaves no trail in the ECM like a SERT does.
 
Jerry

[Hoist!]

Thanks for your help Jerry.
I'd still like to try to find out more about the stock '07 CVOSE 4" Touring Mufflers are. How bad can 4" SE cans sound/perform? Are they "Harley" sounding or closer to stock "Maytag washing machine" sounding?
Same with the SE255 cams. With fuel and exhaust mods, do these cams "open up" the engine decently in the mid-range or are you keeping the revs up and constantly shifting to "stay on the cam"?
Anyone know the stock '07 110" throttle body/injector set-up specs?
Anyone have any experience yet with other '07 mods, I'd be interested. I'm hoping that by the time my bike gets here, I'll know exactly what to do.
Thanks for all the assistance. Hoist!

[beerman]

Just a little info that you guys were after....
the SE255 cams comes stock on the 07 110, the throttle body is still just  TC96 spec 46MM with mapping for a 110 motor, the heads are 9.3-1 with 2.1 intakes and 1.6 exh ( vs. TC96 issue 1.8 intake and 1.6 exh)
one mag test got 12.3 Qtr mile at 107 MPH
My SESPRNGR is in for it's 1000 check - if the snow holds off - I get her back Sat.
-Beerman

[Unbalanced]

Hoist,

You will probably never see 45 to 50 mpg ....  Once your over that fact you will then look at the cam.  The cam has no overlap on it hence the cam is an epa cam much like many of the stock cams harley has produced.  

The choices are going to be Open Air Cleaner, SERT  (Race Tuner), Power Commander
Zippers Auto Tune, or a dfo / techlusion.

Here are the pluses and minuses as we know or believe they will impact you.

1st the Race Tuner this allows you to actually tune the bike, but may risk losing your warranty as the ECM is supposed to know when a SERT has been installed and the first time the digitech is put to your new bike Harley is then informed and most likely will use this to void any part of the warranty the deem necessary.  Again this is a dealer by dealer thing.

2nd the PowerCommander   It is going to lie to your computer to get it to give a/f the way it deems necessary its an extra piece that could go bad... some have never I have owned 2 that have.   Now the tricky part is you can remove it from the ECM and plug your stock stuff back in for warranty work.  The issue is if you have open air cleaner open pipes and then try and use your stock map you could essentially hurt the motor depending on compensation / breathing.

3rd Choice is the Auto Tune by Zippers with the Thundermax.   Same thing goes for this when you go in for service except that this version uses wide band sensors and can set your fuel where ever you want it 13 to 1   14 to 1 or 13.4 to 1.

All that being said until Harley gives a download that is installable from the digitech or some cartridge when you remove the items you run the risk of driving the bike in a too lean environment.

Heat is a huge issue with me... I just spoke to Karen at BUB and she says they are already selling the pipes with 2 bungs in them the part number is 1-800-0434 sold by Drag Specialties.

You already have the part numbers for the KN-800.  The other choice is to use the Vance and Hines True dual headers with exhaust mufflers of your choice this will remove the heat from your crotch.   Currently the Rinehart slip ons are on back order.

Enjoy the bike and let us know what you decide to do.

-harry