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[captdave]

Why do you feel 8ga minimum power wire is required?
Just curious ...

TIF2,

Actually, I should have indicated 10-ga as the minimum.  I chose 8-ga based upon (I believe) JL's installation recommendations in their manual, and the info here:  http://www.crutchfield.com/Learn/learningcenter/car/cable_gauge_chart.html

From that chart and the length of cable run I used, I could have gotten away with 10-ga, but I figured the bigger, the better and thought I might pick up a little extra performance in the process.

I forgot about PTT, CB, etc (since I don't have those on my SESG), and didn't know those things all went thru the stock amp.  Makes sense, and makes it much more difficult for one to retain those other functions while changing anything about the stereo system.      Glad I didn't have to deal with that. 

[Harleypingman]

J&M offers a 500W, 4-channel amp for RG Ultras (not the CVO RGU):

http://www.jmcorp.com/ProductDetail.asp?ProductID=JAMP-500HR11-UL

JMJOHN is a member here, and owns J&M.  Shoot him a PM or email him on how that kit can be adapted to for use on the CVO RGU.  Also, I know his crew have installed the amp on CVO Ultras at bike rallies so he should have access to some very specific installation information.

As Dave pointed out, "plug and play" is a misnomer when referring to amp installations since virtually all will require running a power wire from the battery to inside the fairing to power the amp, and a ground wire from the amp to the frame--typically this requires removing the gas tank, or at least raising it for the wire runs.

And, with the RG's, there is almost always a requirement to install a bracket to mount the amp inside the fairing.

Hope you find a satisfactory solution.

Carl

[TIF2]

Hey Jerry  -

Been great talking with you regarding your project - hopefully I have helped out.
Too bad you're so far away ... if you could drop the bike with me I'd have you SLAMMIN' in a day 

I'm available for any help you need.

Rock on bro ....

[TIF2]

TIF2,

Actually, I should have indicated 10-ga as the minimum.  I chose 8-ga based upon (I believe) JL's installation recommendations in their manual, and the info here:  http://www.crutchfield.com/Learn/learningcenter/car/cable_gauge_chart.html

From that chart and the length of cable run I used, I could have gotten away with 10-ga, but I figured the bigger, the better and thought I might pick up a little extra performance in the process.

I forgot about PTT, CB, etc (since I don't have those on my SESG), and didn't know those things all went thru the stock amp.  Makes sense, and makes it much more difficult for one to retain those other functions while changing anything about the stereo system.     Glad I didn't have to deal with that.  

yeah Dave ... I was thinking the same thing - 10ga as a minimum.

8ga wire is rated at 40 amps .... the max the CVO generators/alternators will churn is 45 amps. I was concerned about your installing wire (and fused) that allows the potential for overloading the charging system. I ran 10ga wire and have my amps fused at 20 just to see if they blow. They haven't yet. I'll drop them to 15 and see what happens. Since I have 2 amps if they blow at 15 then I'm pulling somewhere between 30 - 40 amps total. Starting to scratch the surface of what the bike can produce.

I "think" the Rockfords will be "ok" at 15 amps (fused) but cannot find definitive info on it - ergo - time to spend some money at the "Shack" to test by blowing fuses

No performance gain/loss by running 8ga over 10ga over 4ga over 2ga ... well ... you see the pattern However, the strand count of whatever you install is important. Electrons travel on the "outside" of a conductor - the more "outsides" you can provide the better. A 3000 strand 10ga wire (no ... I don't know of any ... illustration purposes only ) will provide cleaner current than a 4ga solid copper wire. A good "strand-count" for power/ground wire is important - not to mention it aids with install due to the natural flexiblity of a high strand-count cable.

Additionally, the stock speaker wire is more than sufficient for anything the bike can produce. Kudos for replacing it, but it isn't needed (again - just my opinion).

[captdave]

yeah Dave ... I was thinking the same thing - 10ga as a minimum.

8ga wire is rated at 40 amps .... the max the CVO generators/alternators will churn is 45 amps. I was concerned about your installing wire (and fused) that allows the potential for overloading the charging system. I ran 10ga wire and have my amps fused at 20 just to see if they blow. They haven't yet. I'll drop them to 15 and see what happens. Since I have 2 amps if they blow at 15 then I'm pulling somewhere between 30 - 40 amps total. Starting to scratch the surface of what the bike can produce.

I "think" the Rockfords will be "ok" at 15 amps (fused) but cannot find definitive info on it - ergo - time to spend some money at the "Shack" to test by blowing fuses

No performance gain/loss by running 8ga over 10ga over 4ga over 2ga ... well ... you see the pattern However, the strand count of whatever you install is important. Electrons travel on the "outside" of a conductor - the more "outsides" you can provide the better. A 3000 strand 10ga wire (no ... I don't know of any ... illustration purposes only ) will provide cleaner current than a 4ga solid copper wire. A good "strand-count" for power/ground wire is important - not to mention it aids with install due to the natural flexiblity of a high strand-count cable.

Additionally, the stock speaker wire is more than sufficient for anything the bike can produce. Kudos for replacing it, but it isn't needed (again - just my opinion).

Actually, I did have to replace the stock speaker wire because the stock lower speaker was a single mid-range, and I replaced them with 2-way coaxials (with crossovers with 2 separate terminals to each tweeter and midrange horn).  Could have used the 2 stock wires and add 2 more, but I had to change out the weatherpack connector anyway to a 4-terminal so I wouldn't have 2 separate connectors up top.  Plus, on the amp end, I couldn't use the stock harness without tearing into it and separating out the wires to run to the new amp (the way I saw it).  It was just easier for me to make the new harnesses and run direct from the weatherpacks to the amp outputs.

Thanks for the info...I didn't realize the CVO alternator maxed out at 45 amps (I should have known that though).  Like you, I'll fuse it at 20A and see what happens.  Might be an issue if I'm running the stereo and 2 sets of heated gear (gloves and jacket liners).  Each jacket is 6.5 amps, and the gloves are about 2.5 amps each pair, for a total of 18 amps.  Not sure what the lights draw, but I'm also running a powered J&M hidden antenna and Garmin Zumo 665 w/ XM.  Looks like a 20A fuse should be the max I should run.  

At the moment, I'm concerned the Polk speakers may have not been the best choice because they are 2.7 ohms impedance each.  The JL amp delivers 100 watts RMS/ch at 2 ohms and 75 watts/ch at 4 ohms (4 channels).  I know power isn't linear, but assuming it is, the amp is delivering 87.5 watts/ch to the Polks at 3 ohms.  87.5 x 4 = 350 watts delivered by the amp.  Using Crutchfield's formula to estimate max current draw:  350 x 2 = 750 watts total assuming a 50% efficient amp.  750 watts/13.8 v = 54 amps of max current draw.  If I used 4 ohm speakers, at the JL amp's 75 watts/CH RMS, max current draw would be about 43.5 amps...very close to max alternator output.  Do you agree with these numbers?

When you used a 20A fuse, did you crank it??  Please let me know what happens with the 15's.  I may try those as well.  

Thanks again for all the info.  I think you just saved me from some future major headaches...

[Jerry/MD]

Hey Jerry  -

Been great talking with you regarding your project - hopefully I have helped out.
Too bad you're so far away ... if you could drop the bike with me I'd have you SLAMMIN' in a day 

I'm available for any help you need.

Rock on bro ....

Rich,
I can't thank you enough.  You pointed out many things I had not considered. We will be talking some more for sure..... And yes, I wish I lived closer. Although I got a feeling our combined skills would get both us in trouble with the local sound level laws! 

Initial research tells me the ARC Audio amp would be my best choice. I completely agree, and Rio is on the same path, that upgrading the existing amp to get better performance out of the new speakers would be a good first step. I was surprised but the standard 2011 manual shows a wiring diagram with the external amp. So I'm already piecing together what needs to be done. Looks like I will be using those old electronic technician skills again.

I suspect the reason H-D or nobody else offers a replacement 'under the tourpak' amp is because the numbers aren't there. If there were more bikes built that would take advantage of this package...you would see it offered.

[Rio]

Hey Jerry, I will be listening and watching for your results.  Rich needs to becareful on what he says online.  Ann Arbor Michigan is not that far from NE Indiana    My bikes been sitting all winter and I've done noting but change the brake rotor bolts to chrome, added a set of knock-off hot toppers, and change the windshield.  I'm itching to get started on something.  HID lights maybe, upgrade the sound system, and re-locate the navy to where the fuel gauge is located and swap that out with the air temp gauge.  I'm still waiting for a member to finish the latter and send some pictures.

[Jerry/MD]

Hey Jerry, I will be listening and watching for your results.  Rich needs to becareful on what he says online.  Ann Arbor Michigan is not that far from NE Indiana    My bikes been sitting all winter and I've done noting but change the brake rotor bolts to chrome, added a set of knock-off hot toppers, and change the windshield.  I'm itching to get started on something.  HID lights maybe, upgrade the sound system, and re-locate the navy to where the fuel gauge is located and swap that out with the air temp gauge.  I'm still waiting for a member to finish the latter and send some pictures.

Hey Rio,
When I spoke to him he said he was outside Cincinnati, OH. That's probably about the same distance for both of us. Hmmmmm.........

FYI: According to ARC Audio's website the KS125.4, which I'm considering, will not fit under the fairing. When I compared its dimensions to the 500W J&M (which does fit) they are close in size. Maybe its a Batwing vs. Sharknose thing.    More to come.............

[Rio]

Hey Rio,
When I spoke to him he said he was outside Cincinnati, OH. That's probably about the same distance for both of us. Hmmmmm.........

FYI: According to ARC Audio's website the KS125.4, which I'm considering, will not fit under the fairing. When I compared its dimensions to the 500W J&M (which does fit) they are close in size. Maybe its a Batwing vs. Sharknose thing.    More to come.............

Cinci's about a 5 hour ride.  Right now, my deal is TIME!  I just don't have any!  I run a car dealership, comsumes time, twins in thier senior year going off to college in August.  Bought a small 1,300 sq ft lake house last August, putting our home up for sale next week, breaking ground in 2 weeks on the construction more than doubling the size (excited about my 36*26 heated garage), we will need to sell all sorts of furniture and stuff at our existing home, garage sale I guess.  Oh yeah, Punta Cana in April for kids senior trip too, and we can't forget the graduation party we will have to host....just not sure where?  hehehe....just a few things going on, oh yeah, planning a road trip to Halifax the 1st week of August with my buds!  I'm confident I could do the upgrade if I were able to find the time to concentrate and do it right?  LOL eh?

[TIF2]

FYI: According to ARC Audio's website the KS125.4, which I'm considering, will not fit under the fairing. When I compared its dimensions to the 500W J&M (which does fit) they are close in size. Maybe its a Batwing vs. Sharknose thing.    More to come.............

Hey Jerry -

Sent a reply to your PM. No problem fitting the 125.4 in the Road Glide. Gordy on here has done it, and lots of folks on hdforums.com have installed it also:

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=47523.0

Regards .....

[Jerry/MD]

Hey Jerry -

Sent a reply to your PM. No problem fitting the 125.4 in the Road Glide. Gordy on here has done it, and lots of folks on hdforums.com have installed it also:

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=47523.0

Regards .....

Cool, that's what I wanted to hear! Thanks!

[Jerry/MD]

Cinci's about a 5 hour ride.  Right now, my deal is TIME!  I just don't have any!  I run a car dealership, comsumes time, twins in thier senior year going off to college in August.  Bought a small 1,300 sq ft lake house last August, putting our home up for sale next week, breaking ground in 2 weeks on the construction more than doubling the size (excited about my 36*26 heated garage), we will need to sell all sorts of furniture and stuff at our existing home, garage sale I guess.  Oh yeah, Punta Cana in April for kids senior trip too, and we can't forget the graduation party we will have to host....just not sure where?  hehehe....just a few things going on, oh yeah, planning a road trip to Halifax the 1st week of August with my buds!  I'm confident I could do the upgrade if I were able to find the time to concentrate and do it right?  LOL eh?

Dang Rio, sounds like your plate is full. I will try and keep this whole amp upgrade conversation going. I was even considering mounting an after-market amp under the tourpak, in another enclosure, and wiring the inputs/outputs to the same connecctor as the stock CVO amp. It would be my custom approach to 'plug-n-play'. Problem is there isn't enough room. Most of the 4 channel amps are at least 10.5 inches long. Unfortunately that is larger than the stock unit. However, I still have not ruled out a similar approach.

FYI: I've contacted somebody concerning a bracket for mounting the amp. If I'm gonna do this, it's gonna be done right. Stay tuned.......

[Rio]

Dang Rio, sounds like your plate is full. I will try and keep this whole amp upgrade conversation going. I was even considering mounting an after-market amp under the tourpak, in another enclosure, and wiring the inputs/outputs to the same connecctor as the stock CVO amp. It would be my custom approach to 'plug-n-play'. Problem is there isn't enough room. Most of the 4 channel amps are at least 10.5 inches long. Unfortunately that is larger than the stock unit. However, I still have not ruled out a similar approach.

FYI: I've contacted somebody concerning a bracket for mounting the amp. If I'm gonna do this, it's gonna be done right. Stay tuned.......

Jerry, that would be my thought.  Why not just mount it inside the tour pack?  They don't take up that much room, obviously it will stay dry, and it would make easy for adjustments.  I would think that it would be easier to rewire an aftermarket amp identical to the factory amp and remove it?  I would assume you have all the same connections, power ground, speaker in/out, I would assume they all work in a similar way?  To me this would make sense and be the easiest approach.  You already have wiring with gromets for water seal in the tour pack now? 

On you intital thread, you mentioned that you were disappointed with the performance after you upgraded the speakers.  Did you see worthwhile improvement with that, or did you just expect more?  The current system for most is not terrible, its loud enough, what I'm looking for is better sound quality and clearity at that louder volume.  Did the speakers alone give you that?  I suspect not because usually its a combination of speaker quality + power quality = sound quality

[TIF2]

For the Road Glide, I would suggest installing the amp in the fairing and using the factory wiring for the rear pod speakers. For dealing with the additional signals/functionality in the rear pods - look at the wiring I did for my install in the attached link. I would recommend a similar approach here. Since the TP on the RG Ultra is not removeable, it will be less terminations than on my SESG2.

Hope this helps ...

[Jerry/MD]

Jerry, that would be my thought.  Why not just mount it inside the tour pack?  They don't take up that much room, obviously it will stay dry, and it would make easy for adjustments.  I would think that it would be easier to rewire an aftermarket amp identical to the factory amp and remove it?  I would assume you have all the same connections, power ground, speaker in/out, I would assume they all work in a similar way?  To me this would make sense and be the easiest approach.  You already have wiring with gromets for water seal in the tour pack now? 

On you intital thread, you mentioned that you were disappointed with the performance after you upgraded the speakers.  Did you see worthwhile improvement with that, or did you just expect more?  The current system for most is not terrible, its loud enough, what I'm looking for is better sound quality and clearity at that louder volume.  Did the speakers alone give you that?  I suspect not because usually its a combination of speaker quality + power quality = sound quality

Yeah Rio, I expected more. Plus, many are stating you need something other than the stock amp to make the Rokker speakers sing. Who knows. I'm conversing with TIF2 (Rich) to figure out what I really want.

Jerry