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[gunrunner]

When oil was 10 to 12 dollars a barrel there was no public support for offshore drilling.

NOW with 140+ oil even the bark humpers think we should drill. I have heard public support running 60 to 70% in California to drill
 offshore. Watch how fast the dems start falling in line now.

So you believe the OPEC expert? They are controling supply, when oil was cheap 10 years ago we had a 8 to 10 million barrel a day surplus and prices collasped, now we have less than 1 million a day surplus. tight market leads to speculation to secure supply for companies and contries that need and import a lot of oil. If there was ample supply the same speculators would drive the price down, shorting.

[gunrunner]

GRC this will make you happy.

I lay the morgage crisis right at Bushes feet. He kept touting the ownership society and pushed to qualify anyone for a home loan. All was well for a few years, with the fed easing rates and the gov. printing alot of money after 911 to keep us out of recession, but they created a huge bubble, no money down, interest only loans, people buying homes way over their heads and living off refinancing their mortgages, and ruthless mortgage companies tricking people into these AR mortgages(this happened to a good bro of mine)

So when the fed starting raising rates the bubble burst and who knows where this will unravel to.

[kojak]

What if instead of raising interest rates and deepening recession. we drill our own oil and stop shipping boatloads of money overseas to pay for our oil?

That would be like going elephant hunting with a bb gun. The issue is much bigger than drilling.

[RedDevil]

That would be like going elephant hunting with a bb gun. The issue is much bigger than drilling.

Yeah, but opening up drilling would take up some of the slack...

   

[kojak]

(Picture of me scratching my head in bewilderment)   OK, let's see.  We've had a Republican administration for nearly 8 years now, and a Republican Congress for most of that same period, but somehow this entire mess is the Democrats fault?  Sorry, but I'm not buying that BS.  I'm also just a tiny bit suspicious of that blurb from "Bill" Phillips.  Snopes is in the process of researching that one as we speak.  And while I'll admit that my memory isn't what it used to be (and it wasn't much to start with), hasn't George Bush been a Republican his entire life?  He is the guy who declared and signed the moratorium on off shore drilling I believe, back in 1990.  You know, I bet those damned Democrats forged his signature.

Even the oil producers in the Middle East have stated publicly that there is no supply and demand justification for the current price of crude oil.  Since the price is obviously being manipulated by other than true market factors, what makes anyone seriously believe that adding more supply from U.S. fields is going to make a difference?  Recently the price of crude increased right after Saudi Arabia announced a production increase.  Somebody 'splain that one to me.

Sure, this country needs to do more with our own resources.  But if anyone believes that throwing open every sensitive area to uncontrolled drilling is going to reduce energy prices, they haven't been paying attention to the real issues.  How many more markets have to be artificially inflated and then burst before people figure out there are people and organizations out there manipulating markets for their own short term gains at everyone else's expense?  And that our government has allowed this through overzealous deregulation, to the point that the Republican heads of the Treasury and the Federal Reserve have come out with statements indicating they need Congress to authorize more and better regulation of financial markets.  I don't remember them saying anything about the folks on welfare being the cause of any of this, BTW.  But the value of the dollar plays a big part in the current "crisis".  And guess what the biggest problems are with the value of the dollar.  Huge budget deficits due to waging war while cutting taxes, and huge trade deficits due to shipping millions of manufacturing jobs overseas while promoting cheap credit and spend spend spend economic plans.  Maybe we need a couple more "stimulus" checks.  Wonder if China will lend us the money again?

Yes indeed, let's just ignore all the other evidence and causual factors and start drilling holes in every open space into which we can shoehorn a derrick.  While you folks are busy drilling holes I'll be chopping and stacking fire wood.  The price of natural gas has also been manipulated to record levels, even though the supply is more than adequate.  I figure the average person in the snow belt will see their heating bills at least double this coming winter.  Any of you folks in Florida have a room I could borrow for a few months?

Jerry

Well said, Jerry!

[kojak]

Yeah, but opening up drilling would take up some of the slack...

   

in 7 to 10 years if we started now. Like T Boone Pickens has been saying in his ads, over the same time period we could really change our dependance on oil by pushing other forms of energy. I personally am seriously thinking about putting solar panels on my roof etc. Ofcourse that would mean not buying a new cvo for a few years. Maybe the price will come down more for solar.

[RedDevil]

in 7 to 10 years if we started now. Like T Boone Pickens has been saying in his ads, over the same time period we could really change our dependance on oil by pushing other forms of energy. I personally am seriously thinking about putting solar panels on my roof etc. Ofcourse that would mean not buying a new cvo for a few years. Maybe the price will come down more for solar.

In 7-10 years we'll need it more then today.  If we don't start now, it won't be there in 7-10 years, like it could be if we start now.  Solar panels on your roof will help you heat your water, but won't provide much more electricity then that.  The amount of solar panels that you would need to power your 1 house would cover yours and your neighbor's house and the amount of batteries required would fill your basement.  You couldn't afford it...so buy your CVO, it will be cheaper.

   

[RedFXR2]

Solar panels on your roof will help you heat your water, but won't provide much more electricity then that.  The amount of solar panels that you would need to power your 1 house would cover yours and your neighbor's house and the amount of batteries required would fill your basement.  You couldn't afford it...so buy your CVO, it will be cheaper.  

This guy was on the news tonight.  Runs nearly his whole house from Solar, including A/C.  No batteries.  Less than full coverage on the roof.  New, thin solar panel technology.  Gets tax credits back for installation--makes it affordable.  This should be very common, not the rare exception.

http://www.wptv.com/content/tcoast/story.aspx?content_id=0cd44a35-05cc-402c-8a0f-6027945167e2

[RedDevil]

This guy was on the news tonight.  Runs nearly his whole house from Solar, including A/C.  No batteries.  Less than full coverage on the roof.  New, thin solar panel technology.  Gets tax credits back for installation--makes it affordable.  This should be very common, not the rare exception.

http://www.wptv.com/content/tcoast/story.aspx?content_id=0cd44a35-05cc-402c-8a0f-6027945167e2

Without batteries, how does he store his energy to power his home at night?  Or does he just shut everything down after sundown?   

   

[RedFXR2]

Without batteries, how does he store his energy to power his home at night?  Or does he just shut everything down after sundown? 

The news article didn't go int that much depth.  It toured his house and they didn't show any batteries.  He's not totally independent--his power bill runs about $25/month (I'd love that).  They did say that all his light fixtures are all LED's which draw almost no current.

Point is, solar is a lot better than it once was.  But folks have to do it.

[RedDevil]

The news article didn't go int that much depth.  It toured his house and they didn't show any batteries.  He's not totally independent--his power bill runs about $25/month (I'd love that).  They did say that all his light fixtures are all LED's which draw almost no current.

Point is, solar is a lot better than it once was.  But folks have to do it.

I wonder if they give a tax credit for having to replace your roof if you have shingles instead of flat metal? 

   

[RedFXR2]

I wonder if they give a tax credit for having to replace your roof if you have shingles instead of flat metal? 

They did talk about that very topic--this guys a home builder himself--and the thin solar panels (thick as a credit card) won't work on shingles or tiles (like I have).  So, at this time, a homeowner would have to have a metal roof. 

[RedDevil]

They did talk about that very topic--this guys a home builder himself--and the thin solar panels (thick as a credit card) won't work on shingles or tiles (like I have).  So, at this time, a homeowner would have to have a metal roof. 

Which unless, you'd get a tax credit for that, will set you back another $10-15 grand....to replace your roof

   

[grc]

There is always more than one way to skin the proverbial cat.  If you don't want to use an array of storage batteries to supply power at night or during cloudy weather, you just increase the capacity of your generating system and sell the excess power to the power company during sunny days.  Then you go on the grid and buy your power on the cloudy days and evenings. 

There are many alternatives out there, and with proper investment they can be developed fairly rapidly.  Solar, wind, and clean coal are some examples that wouldn't require decades to make a difference.  I personally like the idea of nuclear generation of electricity, but that's a little further out considering we no longer have the expertise.  And don't forget the ultimate answer, dilithium crystals.  "Give me more power Scotty"

Jerry

[RedFXR2]

If you don't want to use an array of storage batteries to supply power at night or during cloudy weather, you just increase the capacity of your generating system and sell the excess power to the power company during sunny days.  Then you go on the grid and buy your power on the cloudy days and evenings. 

Thanks for the words, Jerry.  That is what the builder in Florida is doing.  I had to go back and re-read my own linked article:


Eriksen is able to generate enough electricity from the panels that he can actually sell some of the power back to Florida Power and Light.

"What I'm doing is off-setting my bill.  1622 kilowatts is what they've sold to me, 608 kilowatts is what I've sold back to them," he says.