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[wolfman]

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2010-09-03-harley-staying-milwaukee_N.htm

[Limited Lou]

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2010-09-03-harley-staying-milwaukee_N.htm

I hope Harley allways stays in Milwaukee. That's where it belongs...

[Screamin]

I hope Harley allways stays in Milwaukee. That's where it belongs...

I agree Lou. It's tradition and in spite everything else the tradition is a big part of why I ride H.D. Lets hope this settles things for awhile.

[muddypaws]

Wait and see if the dumb ass union members vote for it. They will go on strike for 30 days for a thirty cent raise over two years and are to stupid to figure out they lost money.Just my opinion as I worked for Eastern Airlines and watched as the union destroyed the company.

[guppytrash]

Wait and see if the dumb ass union members vote for it. They will go on strike for 30 days for a thirty cent raise over two years and are to stupid to figure out they lost money.Just my opinion as I worked for Eastern Airlines and watched as the union destroyed the company.

I would beg to differ with you on that one...I would say Frank Lorenzo had plenty to do with that failure.  Just one example:  System 1-Eastern airlines computer reservation system sold to Continental airlines for $10 thousand then Continental was kind enough to rent its use back to Eastern for $5 million a year.  We wont even begin to talk about spare aircraft parts being shifted from Eastern to Continental.    
Cant say I love self serving unions like the one I belong to, but in the world of Greedy CEO's we live in, they are a necessary evil.
 
Can't say for sure the dollar values quoted are correct but I promise you the selling price was much less than the rental price.  
One last comment...Frank Lorenzo was banned from ever being involved in the operation of another U.S. airline.  
I will spare turning my wife loose on you, as she was also a Eastern airlines employee.  
Let me guess you worked in management.

[muddypaws]

No I was a mechanic. And I do believe the union was the down fall of Eastern. I also worked for Northwest Airlines and watched as the union employees dragged that company into the ground as they have done with every airline the unions have anything to do with. Can you tell I'm not a union person. Can't tell you what management did wrong as I was on the union side of the company's. 

[2wheelZEN]

It would really suck the year I can finally get a Harley of my Dreams they move out of Milwaukee(a big part of why I am getting one). If I don't get it by the 13th and the Union votes against, I may have to rethink and take my money elsewhere.  I do have a 2nd, 3rd, 4th choice and would save A LOT of money. Oh who am I kidding, I am still a GM guy(after taking a bath on the whole bankruptcy thing) but I am more likely to buy another brand than I ever was.
 
If they would just build the best damn bike money could buy, everyone would be happy...   yeah right

[Twolanerider]

"They" aren't in Milwaukee anyway.  Sure, corporate is.  And the fancy PR tourist crap is.  But only a small bit of the bikes come from the Milwaukee area.  So why is it that big a deal.  Production should stay domestic.  It would be wrong if Harley were not domestic production.  Beyond that I find it hard to get too worked up....

[2wheelZEN]

"They" aren't in Milwaukee anyway.  Sure, corporate is.  And the fancy PR tourist crap is.  But only a small bit of the bikes come from the Milwaukee area.  So why is it that big a deal.  Production should stay domestic.  It would be wrong if Harley were not domestic production.  Beyond that I find it hard to get too worked up....

I believe those 1340 employees would disagree with you. Harley is a big part of Milwaukee(Wisconsin for that matter). That probably wouldn't change, but sure would leave a bitter taste in a lot of mouths. You'll have to pardon me I am a Milwaukeean and take great pride in where I am from! Had friends and family that worked at the plant on Capital Drive.

[Twolanerider]

I believe those 1340 employees would disagree with you.

But that isn't what was being kvetched over.  The opinion that (to paraphrase) "it means a lot that my bike comes from Milwaukee" was being shared.  And they don't.  The bikes are much more "from" Kansas City or York than they are "from" Milwaukee.

That doesn't speak at all to the staff and employees in Wisconsin.  So don't put words in my mouth.  No one wants to see major job loss or even major employment shifts or relocations.  It's not just "unpleasant" or "unfortunate."  It's bad.  And it's lives altered dramatically.

Personally as a consumer so long as it's a domestic product I don't care where it comes from.  If, however, I choose between a company doing things differently within the country to keep production here rather than moving it overseas I'll keep it here.

MoCo is suffering from many self inflicted wounds right now.  It shouldn't be that they tap staff and employees to help recover from that.  But they have.  And they will again when they think they can.

[grc]

...
MoCo is suffering from many self inflicted wounds right now.  It shouldn't be that they tap staff and employees to help recover from that.  But they have.  And they will again when they think they can.

That's one of the things that fries me the most.  Management has thoroughly screwed the pooch, and the people who wind up paying the price are the customers, the dealers, and the lower level employees.  I don't see any top management or board members being thrown out on their ears, or even taking big pay reductions.  As long as they can lay it all off on someone else, like the employees and local governments, then they can just flounder along like GM did until someone finally says enough.  I don't think Uncle Sam is going to step up and bail out Harley, however.  So it's time for shareholders to insist the board of directors earn their pay and perks.  First order of business, throw the bums out and bring in some good management.


JMHO   -   Jerry

[Twolanerider]

I don't think Uncle Sam is going to step up and bail out Harley, however.  So it's time for shareholders to insist the board of directors earn their pay and perks.  First order of business, throw the bums out and bring in some good management.


JMHO   -   Jerry

Not a chance the Federal Government does some big bail out for a crippled Harley Davidson should it come to that.  Politically all the bail outs have become so unpopular (after the fact) that Congress wouldn't go along unless it was something too big to fail.  Something that would actually damage the national economy.  Without regard to what Harley might be to some here it's not that.  It's a boutique industrial unit compared to the national stage so it's on its own.

My crystal ball doesn't have more than .0005 run out so it can't focus on Harley.  So  no clue what to really expect from it.  I wish they'd follow some of the examples Ford has set.  Instead they seem intent, or at least content, to treat themselves the way Daimler treated Chrysler.  Arrogance, hubris, ignorance or just complacency?  No clue.  From the outside looking in to the perception they give us of the corporate window, however, it can only make you shake your head.

[Screamin]

OK guys. You've beaten the hell outta management. That's fine, I suppose. But, from where dost thou speak? We've heard the story of the CEO compensation. We've heard that the company is top heavy and refuses or is unable to break out of it's paradigm. I'm too lazy, and don't really know where, to look to see some comparative analysis to similar companies (successful and not so much). 

[2smoke]

Union members vote on the "Last, best, & final offer" tomorrow, 8/13/2010.  They are totally getting screwed!  Half the workforce will be seasonal or temps paid much lower wages and no benefits.  Keith Wandel will have destroyed the company and he will walk away with millions.  That's what happens when you hire a golfer to run a motorcycle company.  H-D quality will go down the tubes because you will have a workforce with no loyalty towards the company.  You cannot replace people that care about their product.  The best days of H-D are behind them.  At least I have one of the good bikes made when the workforce was dedicated to making a quality product they could be proud of. 

[harley56]

Union members vote on the "Last, best, & final offer" tomorrow, 8/13/2010.  They are totally getting screwed!  Half the workforce will be seasonal or temps paid much lower wages and no benefits.  Keith Wandel will have destroyed the company and he will walk away with millions.  That's what happens when you hire a golfer to run a motorcycle company.  H-D quality will go down the tubes because you will have a workforce with no loyalty towards the company.  You cannot replace people that care about their product.  The best days of H-D are behind them.  At least I have one of the good bikes made when the workforce was dedicated to making a quality product they could be proud of. 

It surprises me given that demand in some parts of the country is half of what it was a few years ago you seem to believe that downsizing to the right number of employees is getting "Screwed."  What's screwed is when they shut down the production of Sportsters for four months.  Could have used Sportsters in some places but contract agreement required calling back a bunch of non-line people because of seniority - nothing like bringing back forklift drivers so you can eventually get to the workers that assemble the motorcycles.  Keith Wandel is no nonsense and fighting alot harder for the profitability of this company than most could ever imagine.  It's difficult to continue employing people when there is no work for them.  Regardless of how Harley got to today's position, these moves are necessary for the survival of the company.