Sorry to read this, Simon. Let's hope it's something less than a failure.
Thanks Greg. Got my fingers crossed. It's under warranty and no modifications other than my HD dealer. The engine upgrade was part of the purchase order back in September. I also have a few other bikes I can ride :)
Simon
Morning Simon,
This was your last post on this subject from this past Saturday. Any updates?
Man, too bad you don't have another bike to ride while this one is in surgery and recovery...... ;D :2vrolijk_21:
Don't like to hear things like this on anybody's bike. Good luck with these repairs, Simon. Hope the HD Auto Tuner does well. I'm interested to see how you like it but sad in the way you had to get it...
Yes M8's are speed limited aswell as rev limited, can be sorted with a Powervision iirc
I think I'd wait on that until I knew I wouldn't be needing the warranty, or stopped caring about the warranty, whichever comes first.
Jerry
Why in the hell would anyone want to go over 100mph on a Harley on a public road? Maybe I'm getting old but anything above 90mph on one of these 2-wheeled lawn mowers is dangerous.
Why in the hell would anyone want to go over 100mph on a Harley on a public road? Maybe I'm getting old but anything above 90mph on one of these 2-wheeled lawn mowers is dangerous.
Harley uses H rated tires, which is 130 mph max. The one thing Harley does right, IMHO, is using tires that have higher load ratings and speed ratings than absolutely necessary. When it comes to safety, I like my tires to be under-stressed, not on the ragged edge.
Jerry
May just have to ride one of this German bikes for a while. Oh well.
The tuner was a choice, just like the header upgrade. After putting 10k miles on the bike in 5 weeks I found the bike lacking in "grunt" and top end speed. Climbing steep sweepers in the hills/mountain of Oregon was disappointing. The speedo would not hold speed unless I downshifted. I figure the header/tuner combo should help that a bit. Maybe a good solid install with help too.
A tech friend of mine tells me that the M8 (107? 114?) tops out at about 105mph at 5800 rpm. Anyone have any experience in that area they can share? I was used to the 110 TC being able to eventually climb to 115-120 mph range.
Simon
The M8 is governed to 107 mph, the 107, the 114 and the 117. The HD warranty legal tuners will not remove the speed governor or the rev limiter. I know the TTS tuner will for a fact.
So I got a call from the HD Service Writer. They completed the scheduled work and there is still noise coming from the top end. They are ordering a complete Stage III Kit and starting over. Unbelievable. Guess the original Technician, one of their most experienced, really messed up the first install.
So rather than actually finding the cause of the knock (and therefore any subsequent issues that may develop from it) they don't even look and just replace everything? Even if they know they're going to throw the kitchen sink at it I'd want to know what the problem is.Simon did say it was a "HD Service Writer" that called him that would mean it's a HD Dealership with factory trained technicians (parts changers)…. so not in the least bit surprised they are going to throw the "kitchen sink" at it as that would be the quickest (not best) remedy to solve the problem... not saying it's correct but it is what it is. :nixweiss:
They're aren't that many sources for a top end noise. It's not like this is difficult diagnostics.....
Simon did say it was a "HD Service Writer" that called him that would mean it's a HD Dealership with factory trained technicians (parts changers)…. so not in the least bit surprised they are going to throw the "kitchen sink" at it as that would be the quickest (not best) remedy to solve the problem... not saying it's correct but it is what it is. :nixweiss:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
The TTS route is tricky. Yes, you can restore the baseline. How easy is it to do that when you break down 1500 miles from home? Heard from one of my HD tech friends that he’s already seen 3 warranties voided due to ECM modifications.Even if you get the original HD map re-installed.....I have heard that it is date stamped with the 'new' installation date.....the bike itself rats you out!!!
So rather than actually finding the cause of the knock (and therefore any subsequent issues that may develop from it) they don't even look and just replace everything? Even if they know they're going to throw the kitchen sink at it I'd want to know what the problem is.
They're aren't that many sources for a top end noise. It's not like this is difficult diagnostics.....
He stated that they believed that heavy duty springs were not used. I told him that would be unusual since the new springs are a part of the kit. I just get the feeling that the guys who installed the original Stage III kit just did a shambles of a job.
Even if you get the original HD map re-installed.....I have heard that it is date stamped with the 'new' installation date.....the bike itself rats you out!!!
He stated that they believed that heavy duty springs were not used. I told him that would be unusual since the new springs are a part of the kit. I just get the feeling that the guys who installed the original Stage III kit just did a shambles of a job.That's why I've developed harleytechnophobia - fear of having a Harley tech anywhere near my bike, lol. Seriously I've not done much in the way of performance upgrades to my various Harleys but the few I've done came back to bite me due to poor workmanship. I know that even a bone stock motor from the factory may not be assembled properly but I gotta think there's a good probabilityi t will have been assembled correctly. Having the motor torn down and rebuilt / upgraded by your friendly local Harley tech - maybe 50/50. From what I've seen and experienced these tech are working on several jobs at a time, may be waiting on parts, etc., and it's really easy to forget something important, skip over something, not torque a fastener properly, etc. - basically do a shambles of a job as you said Simon.
The TTS route is tricky. Yes, you can restore the baseline. How easy is it to do that when you break down 1500 miles from home? Heard from one of my HD tech friends that he’s already seen 3 warranties voided due to ECM modifications.
That's not true. When Mastertune restores the ECM back to original, it also restores the original date and time stamp.
Steve@fullsac.com
He stated that they believed that heavy duty springs were not used. I told him that would be unusual since the new springs are a part of the kit. I just get the feeling that the guys who installed the original Stage III kit just did a shambles of a job.Makes me wonder what the Tech was thinking. Is he disgruntled? Rushed? Under the gun for efficiency numbers?
Makes me wonder what the Tech was thinking. Is he disgruntled? Rushed? Under the gun for efficiency numbers?
Today's Harley shops run like any modern repair shop. Get these jobs done as fast and cheap as possible. Around here, the really experienced guys have left the dealerships (I suspect replaced by cheaper labor). Service managers used to be the older top techs but are now mostly just salesmen. I sympathize with anyone in a position where they have to go through the dealer for repair/warranty work.
A double-edged sword... when chit breaks, "Did you have all your service performed by an HD certified technician?"
I've met and talked to many "H-D Certified Technicians" over the years, and I can assure you that description in no way shape or form can be assumed to mean a fully qualified and trained individual. There used to be some very good techs in the dealerships around here, back before Harley forced out the old bike enthusiast dealers and replaced them with used car dealers and marketing types. Now the really good ones are either retired or working for themselves. The problem is finding them easily, most don't seem to advertise.
Jerry
Yup, exactly why I started doing my own work years ago. I could write a book on bad dealer experiences LOL.
I gave them plenty of time. They supposedly put the best technician on the job. I think one possible issue is that they did have him work other jobs while doing my upgrade. As I got this bundled with my deal I gave the shop a lot of latitude on the delivery date. Perhaps the back and forth between different jobs resulted in some drop in quality. (Hmm... where did I leave off, did I already put the heavy springs in?).Spot on Simon. I know I've been a victim of this on more than one occasion. Dread having to take my bike in for anything but the most simple repair . . . one that I can readily tell if it was done properly.
I gave them plenty of time. They supposedly put the best technician on the job. I think one possible issue is that they did have him work other jobs while doing my upgrade. As I got this bundled with my deal I gave the shop a lot of latitude on the delivery date. Perhaps the back and forth between different jobs resulted in some drop in quality. (Hmm... where did I leave off, did I already put the heavy springs in?).
Spot on Simon. I know I've been a victim of this on more than one occasion. Dread having to take my bike in for anything but the most simple repair . . . one that I can readily tell if it was done properly.
I stopped by the Harley dealer today to see how my repair was going. Turns out they are still waiting on some parts. So I got to talking with the technician working on my bike. And he shows me the pistons, or a piston and the damage to the piston. And the damage is just as bad on the cylinder.
So now it becomes very clear as to why they are completely re-installing the 114 stage III kit.
OK, so here's the important question. Do they know what caused that damage, or are they just going to replace the pistons and jugs and hope for the best?
Jerry
If I remember correctly they found extensive damage in the cam chest first, now severe damage to the pistons and cylinders. Have they bothered to look at the heads,rockers, and valves? I'm wondering if the entire engine either suffered a lubrication failure, or large amounts of trash circulated throughout the engine. And the bottom end needs to be inspected as well, since all that metal from the pistons and jugs went straight down into the crank.
JMHO - Jerry
HD Factory: That puncture in that leg is a birth defect. We’ll have the factory send out a new one with the same VIN.
Wow Simon, hope they get you fixed not repaired soon. M19 on the way hopefully. That would be the 19 like Heatwave got.
I don't know but it's a possibility I guess. Just hope they pick a good one off the line. Wonder how many new engines they've exchanged under warranty so far. If that original crank was bent out of the factory what kind of QC are they running?You cant get a 19 motor (no one can) but you can get the design that they will put in the 19 with engine numbers that will be from your 18. Each time they install a new motor they will give you same engine number (or bike would be illegal) with a letter designation showing 2nd iteration (or 3rd, 4th--). Kinda splitting hairs as long as they don't change any emissions on new design for 19 in which case they can not release until cleared and published by US EPA.
DH
UPDATE
So they put the new 114" Stage III kit on the bike.
Still making strange noises.
Call HD Tech Services for help with diagnosis.
Diagnosis: Twisted/bent Crank, "We've seen it before." per HD Tech Services
Remedy: Brand new motor being shipping along with a new 114" Stage III kit.
Gah!!!!!!!!!!!! but I suppose that's about the best remedy possible.
Simon
You cant get a 19 motor (no one can) but you can get the design that they will put in the 19 with engine numbers that will be from your 18. Each time they install a new motor they will give you same engine number (or bike would be illegal) with a letter designation showing 2nd iteration (or 3rd, 4th--). Kinda splitting hairs as long as they don't change any emissions on new design for 19 in which case they can not release until cleared and published by US EPA.Yes, that is what I really meant.
In my "saga" I have been through with MOCO the rep told me they have come up with solution that will be standard on the 19 and they have been using around the world without problems. To be fair though he told me that also when they sent my 3rd motor out to machine shop so hopefully this time he is right. It does seem like the people that have been posting recently problems don't seem to be re posting new motors are failing.
Please keep us informed when you get your bike back your progress with how it goes!
So, I buy the 2018 CVO 117 and have all options I could think of including stage IV. I have the bike 3 days, about 400 miles, and the tappet gets loud. The dealership fixes it and I'm on my way. Still a happy customer. 9,400 miles later, because I ride it, same thing only now I hear things flying around the motor. Then the compression relief valve opens and it sounds like the head blows. I pull off of the 1st exit, having no power, and she dies. The tappet disintegrated! Dealership cracks her open and the tappet won't come out. After further break down, the needle bearings are inside my oil pump meaning they passed through the entire motor. Corporate approves a short block but is hesitant to approve a stage IV kit. I'm looking at the marks on my sleeves, gouges on my pistons, An oil pump with grooves cut into the aluminum from circulating bearings and debris, a tappet that no longer resembles one as the roller has gone through my baby. Then I find out that the computer mapping for the 117 stage four was not available so corporate told the dealer to map it for a 110ci. WTF! I just handed them $52,000 and you deceive me on top of my mechanical problems? Now the dealership is building my M8 rather than the factory.
Now the dealership is building my M8 rather than the factory.
My bike is out of HD Jail. New motor with the 114” Stage III upgrade. I'm taking her to "Shark Week" which is the Roadglide.org National Rally. 500 Mile break-in and 1k service coming up this week!Nice, enjoy it Simon!
I had them throw on a FULLSAC Header and an automatic tuning module. She's got a great grunt now.
DH
They placed parts order for cam, pushrods, and more. The service writer was not my primary and useless as TOAB. I’ll call and find out more today.you call HD customer service and tell them? you want those people to know . surprised factory tech did not want to peek at more before tossing parts into it. only to find out it needed to be looked at a bit deeper. but it is what it is. hope you have an easy fix regardless
I had them throw on a FULLSAC Header and an automatic tuning module. She's got a great grunt now.
DH
During a warranty repair they put on an aftermarket header? Wow! That's awesome.
Steve@fullsac.com
Yup. Everyone tells me I’m gonna get screwed but they offered me a V&H and I told them they’re getting a FULLSAC. Really cooled of my calf muscle. Engine broke in now and gets an oil change this weekend with a dyno pull. Will be interesting to se the result.Dyno pull? Coulda swore you did that coming back to Durango this afternoon. It didn't have any issues getting moving. That guy behind us gave up trying to keep up about half way down the mountain. Sounds great running behind it.
Yup. Everyone tells me I’m gonna get screwed but they offered me a V&H and I told them they’re getting a FULLSAC. Really cooled of my calf muscle. Engine broke in now and gets an oil change this weekend with a dyno pull. Will be interesting to se the result.
Simon
Just my .02.
Wear your lucky socks and keep a rabbits foot hidden on the bike for the next 5000 miles. See a black cat, immediate U turn. Find your local witch Doctor and have him check your bike for Demons. Maybe do a quick exorcism or at least chant some gibberish while blowing huge clouds of Rasta smoke near the AC while it idles. (The mechanic at your dealer most likely did this already while celebrating the fact that it started.) Most importantly, maintain possession of your stock header and all of the mounting hardware. If you have it, you most likely will never need it. Murphy's law 101.
Best of luck and ride safe!
Steve@fullsac.com
I’ve got the OEM head pipe. Tell me more about hardware they might not have reused and should have given me.
I've got 4k on the new motor and all's going well.