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[Paulie]

I put V&H 2 into 2 Big Radius pipes on my 2010 CVO FLSTSE.  The dealer in Lake Charles put a power commander on with the pipes.  My understanding is the "new" speedometer/Tach/digital display has some software issues which cause some items to malfunction.  The Harley Technical Services stated theywere working on a software fix.

After six weeks I took my bike to San Jancinto Harley in PasadenaTexas to "re-flash" the system with the fix.  However, this is the most customer unfriendly dealer I with which I have dealt.  A true lack of understanding the system.
Is anyone haveing the same problems with the new speedometer?  And what fixesdo you advise?

[Mr. Wizard]

I put V&H 2 into 2 Big Radius pipes on my 2010 CVO FLSTSE.  The dealer in Lake Charles put a power commander on with the pipes.  My understanding is the "new" speedometer/Tach/digital display has some software issues which cause some items to malfunction.  The Harley Technical Services stated theywere working on a software fix.

After six weeks I took my bike to San Jancinto Harley in PasadenaTexas to "re-flash" the system with the fix.  However, this is the most customer unfriendly dealer I with which I have dealt.  A true lack of understanding the system.
Is anyone haveing the same problems with the new speedometer?  And what fixesdo you advise?

I'm truly amazed Paulie that you could fit the PCV on the ConV. This was reported to be near impossible without crushing it with the seat. Congratulations for being the first one that I've heard of to make it work.

With the TTS the sixth gear light issue is not with the new digital speedo. It's with the Primary Ratio. It is not with the speedo calibration settings.

and I quote a memo to me from TTS>>

We have seen this occasionally in the 2010 Dynas - the issue is that HD switched to a helical gear for the speedo pickoff, and the VSS sensor now occasionally misses pulses due to the different gear tooth shape.  Most have no issue at all; a few others exhibit the problem.  

The ECM uses the ratio of the VSS output pulses to engine RPM to compute which gear is selected.  When the pulses are out of the expected range, the 6th gear light does not activate and the cruise control may not work.

The workaround is to go into the MasterTune primary gear setting and reduce the ratio a bit.  The stock setting is 1.353 - try reducing this to 1.330 or so.  You can experiment a bit to find where it starts working "solidly"; some customers have set this as low as 1.324.

This will not affect the speedo calibration, only the 6th gear light.  The speedo calibration setting is completely separate form the primary gear calibration, although they both work off the same VSS sensor!

Now that is with the TTS... I have no clue about how the PCV will effect your light but the above information may help you find the answer you seek.  

Cheers

-wiz


Edit...  the software fix that HD is talking about is the ability to flash the ECM with a tuning device such as the TTS or SEST. The speedo constantly looks for a signal to and from the ECM for fuel readings. This will not let the ECM release to the tuning module to flash a map. On the ConV you must remove the ASSY fuse under the seat which will remove power to the speedo. After flashing you simply put the fuse back in.

[ezpgh]

When I told my dealer I needed a tuner the first thing he said was "Stay the hell away from the PC, they are junk and alot of things will go haywire on this new CVO" and something about the PC not bumping up the fuel pressure enough. He also said TTS is a great device but they do not install them at his place because of the time involved. He guarentees me that the SEST will do a great job and discounted it to under $400  installed. It gets done tomorrow. I am comfortable with my decision simply because if there are any issues down the road any HD dealer can handle it.

[ezpgh]

I put V&H 2 into 2 Big Radius pipes on my 2010 CVO FLSTSE.  The dealer in Lake Charles put a power commander on with the pipes.  My understanding is the "new" speedometer/Tach/digital display has some software issues which cause some items to malfunction.  The Harley Technical Services stated theywere working on a software fix.

After six weeks I took my bike to San Jancinto Harley in PasadenaTexas to "re-flash" the system with the fix.  However, this is the most customer unfriendly dealer I with which I have dealt.  A true lack of understanding the system.
Is anyone haveing the same problems with the new speedometer?  And what fixesdo you advise?

Get your money back for the PC and do the TTS or SEST.

[Mr. Wizard]

When I told my dealer I needed a tuner the first thing he said was "Stay the hell away from the PC, they are junk and alot of things will go haywire on this new CVO" and something about the PC not bumping up the fuel pressure enough. He also said TTS is a great device but they do not install them at his place because of the time involved. He guarentees me that the SEST will do a great job and discounted it to under $400  installed. It gets done tomorrow. I am comfortable with my decision simply because if there are any issues down the road any HD dealer can handle it.

I think your HD guy just lied to you. Ask him what the difference in setting up the TTS to flash your ECM and the SEST. I can tell you the answer... nothing. He just wants your money. The SEST will work well for your bike but i don't like misinformation to help anyone make a decision.

Sorry...  but the truth is the truth.   

[ezpgh]

I think your HD guy just lied to you. Ask him what the difference in setting up the TTS to flash your ECM and the SEST. I can tell you the answer... nothing. He just wants your money. The SEST will work well for your bike but i don't like misinformation to help anyone make a decision.

Sorry...  but the truth is the truth.   

I undersatnd totally and wish someone in my area did the TTS but I haven't found anyone that does.

[Mr. Wizard]

I undersatnd totally and wish someone in my area did the TTS but I haven't found anyone that does.

First I want to apologize for my outburst. I don't mean to sound negative towards you or your decision. I also understand that sometimes I sound like a shrill speaking of the TTS as I do. What simply set me off if the fact you were lied to.

Not all HD's will give false information to their customers to swing them to spend their money on other products but there are way too many that adopt this philosophy for the almighty buck. The adaptation of the SEST into the tuning of a Harley is simply no different than with a TTS. Your dealer knows this if he has been in the business for more than a few years as he had no choice but to use the TTS (old style SERT) until the parting of the agreement between the two respective companies.

So anyway, I am sure the SEST will work fine even though the TTS has more advanced features that will help you on the ConV. There are guys on this site that are very willing to help you set up your system and with a lot of patience teach you how to tune with any featured tuner you may choose so, if you change your mind about your decision just know you are not alone if help is needed.

Again, I apologize if I seem rude earlier.


-wiz

[ezpgh]

Wiz, no need to appologize at all because you were 100% right. BTW, they did the SEST yesterday and here's the results.....the bike has more power for sure, the heat has not decreased at all (I have an analog oil temp dipstick), the IETMS no longer activates (that's good and bad), and I still have backfiring during decel and between upshifts sometimes (which they say is do to V&H pipes not having backpressure), and the 6th gear light only works sometimes. I would pretty much say I threw more money away on this because all I got is a slightly better 1st-3rd response, certainly not $400 worth better either.

[Mr. Wizard]

did they give you a copy of your map?

[grc]

I don't want to make you feel bad, but like Mr. Wizard I have a hard time keeping my cool when dealership idiots lie to customers.  He lied to you about the PC, he lied to you again about the TTS, and now he's lying to you about the pipes.  What kind of lie did he come up with to cover the malfunctioning 6th gear light? 

If you spent $400 or less, I don't see any way this guy gave you a real custom dyno tune.  More likely the $400 just covered the SEST and he loaded one of the canned maps Harley has on disk.  If that's the case, the poor results don't surprise me at all.  A real tune would add at least $300 extra, on top of the price for the device.  And a competent tuner can fix your pipe issues as well as make the bike run the way it should.


Jerry

[Mr. Wizard]

Jerry... that's why I asked him is he has a copy of the map... I want to review it if I'm not sticking my nose where it doesn't belong.

The ConV has an issue with the 6th gear light as I've stated before but the SEST can't fix it. I haven't heard of a software fix for it as of yet so I wonder what was done or said. I would like to know more about that too.

Yes, it's another little white lie about the pipes... sounds like CVO meeting at that dealership??   

[Blueyz0416]

Jerry... that's why I asked him is he has a copy of the map... I want to review it if I'm not sticking my nose where it doesn't belong.

The ConV has an issue with the 6th gear light as I've stated before but the SEST can't fix it. I haven't heard of a software fix for it as of yet so I wonder what was done or said. I would like to know more about that too.

Yes, it's another little white lie about the pipes... sounds like CVO meeting at that dealership??   

Not to hijack the thread, but MR WIZARD HAD A BIRTHDAY TODAY -- HAPPY 27th (AGAIN)!!! 

[ezpgh]

I put V&H 2 into 2 Big Radius pipes on my 2010 CVO FLSTSE.  The dealer in Lake Charles put a power commander on with the pipes.  My understanding is the "new" speedometer/Tach/digital display has some software issues which cause some items to malfunction.  The Harley Technical Services stated theywere working on a software fix.

After six weeks I took my bike to San Jancinto Harley in PasadenaTexas to "re-flash" the system with the fix.  However, this is the most customer unfriendly dealer I with which I have dealt.  A true lack of understanding the system.
Is anyone haveing the same problems with the new speedometer?  And what fixesdo you advise?

I honestly don't think HD would think twice about a problem caused by a PC. They don't respond to problems they create let alone issuses that happen when an add on is used. PC should be the ones working on a solution.

[ezpgh]

I don't want to make you feel bad, but like Mr. Wizard I have a hard time keeping my cool when dealership idiots lie to customers.  He lied to you about the PC, he lied to you again about the TTS, and now he's lying to you about the pipes.  What kind of lie did he come up with to cover the malfunctioning 6th gear light?  

If you spent $400 or less, I don't see any way this guy gave you a real custom dyno tune.  More likely the $400 just covered the SEST and he loaded one of the canned maps Harley has on disk.  If that's the case, the poor results don't surprise me at all.  A real tune would add at least $300 extra, on top of the price for the device.  And a competent tuner can fix your pipe issues as well as make the bike run the way it should.


Jerry

They may have lied about the PC but they did say TTS was a great choice, just that they did not use them at their shop. And yes, they did use a canned map software level 176PQ006-000 whatever that means. As far as dynos go around here, they are few and far between and cost so much nobody uses them. The damn bikes should run straight out of the box. Mine is going back tomorrow, they want to recheck and adjust "if necessary", and they also said the 6th light not working sometimes has nothing to do with the SEST and will be adjusted also tomorrow, funny tho because it always worked correctly before the SEST. I'm pretty hard headed and if this thing does not run PERFECT after they are done tomorrow it wont be coming back home with me. OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH forgot this one, they also said HD used 2 different cams in this model and the map may be the wrong one for my cam!!! It gets better and better!!!!!!!!!!!

[Paulie]

I have removed the power commander and installed the Scream'n Eagle system.  The sixth gear light still works improperly.
You are right.........the dealerships are extremely rube on this issue.  The San Jancinto, Pasadena Texas dealership hires Bandito mechanic(s).  So it can get ugly........especially when they don't listen to the problem.  I have been promised ......"no retailation" for not fixing my sixth gear light.  What a mess.  I did talk to the Lake Charles dealer who told me that Harley would have the software fix soon.  Hope so before I take my beating!!!

[ezpgh]

Well, took mine in today and they ran it again for 255 cams. The backfiring is so slight now that I can control it with the throttle, the heat is no longer an issue (85 degrees today, ran it hard and oil temp never went past 240), it  runs great and pulls super strong, the 6th gear light still works only once in a while. They said the light isn't a software issue and they can fix it another time if I can leave it for a day. I know it is a software issue because it worked fine before the download and lots of people have the same problem. Anyway, I can live with it until they come up with a fix, or will pulling the accessory fuse before flashing do the trick?. I'm alot happier now.

[Mr. Wizard]

Well, took mine in today and they ran it again for 255 cams. The backfiring is so slight now that I can control it with the throttle, the heat is no longer an issue (85 degrees today, ran it hard and oil temp never went past 240), it  runs great and pulls super strong, the 6th gear light still works only once in a while. They said the light isn't a software issue and they can fix it another time if I can leave it for a day. I know it is a software issue because it worked fine before the download and lots of people have the same problem. Anyway, I can live with it until they come up with a fix, or will pulling the accessory fuse before flashing do the trick?. I'm alot happier now.

Did they give you a copy of your map?

No, pulling the accy fuse will not fix the 6th gear light, you only pull that fuse to flash the ECM.

It's a software issue that the SEST changes and you can't change it back with the SEST. They may be able to do it with their Digital Technician at their shop. Primary Ratio needs to be changed from 1.353 to 1.330. Only then will the 6th gear light work properly.

[ezpgh]

Did they give you a copy of your map?

No, pulling the accy fuse will not fix the 6th gear light, you only pull that fuse to flash the ECM.

It's a software issue that the SEST changes and you can't change it back with the SEST. They may be able to do it with their Digital Technician at their shop. Primary Ratio needs to be changed from 1.353 to 1.330. Only then will the 6th gear light work properly.

All they gave me was a print out saying 176PQ006-000. Thanks for all your help and I will have them change that ratio next visit if possible.

[Paulie]

 
Well guys, I spoke with Harley customer service today about the 6th gear light not working properly their software fix.
The fix is not forthcoming according to Harley..........................surprise.  Also, running hot is not an issue for themas well.

Friday I have an appointment with an attorney.  Maybe Harley will turn the bad guys loose again.

[ezpgh]

Well guys, I spoke with Harley customer service today about the 6th gear light not working properly their software fix.
The fix is not forthcoming according to Harley..........................surprise.  Also, running hot is not an issue for themas well.

Friday I have an appointment with an attorney.  Maybe Harley will turn the bad guys loose again.

If they don't come up with a new download to fix the light I will have the dealer remove the SEST and i'll run it hot until it doesn't run anymore, then they can stick it.

[Mr. Wizard]

EZ and Paulie...

Not my business but we can help both of you... if you let us. You guys are not in this alone.

[grc]

Well guys, I spoke with Harley customer service today about the 6th gear light not working properly their software fix.
The fix is not forthcoming according to Harley..........................surprise.  Also, running hot is not an issue for themas well.

Friday I have an appointment with an attorney.  Maybe Harley will turn the bad guys loose again.

Running hot, or just running poorly, isn't an issue for them because fixing it might require them to break the law.  They would much rather sell you the software and hardware to allow you to break the law yourself, and then pretend ignorance and innocence if the EPA ever questions why most Harley's in the real world don't meet emissions regulations (we sold that stuff for racing only, we can't help what the customer does with it).  It's been that way for a long time; they also didn't fix a lot of driveability issues on earlier models because they wouldn't take the time, or find the talent necessary, to figure out an easy way to do that and stay within the law.  They've sold more SERT's and SEST's than I could possibly count, so lot's of folks seem to be willing to let H-D do it to them.  Myself, I'd torch it before I'd give H-D a nickel to fix their problems.  When there are so many alternative tuning devices available, some of which are superior to the SEST, I see no reason to pay H-D another tidy profit to make their crap run right.  Perhaps if more folks felt that way Harley wouldn't have such an incentive to put out lousy stock calibrations and then refuse to make the bike run right unless you buy their SEST package.

Find yourself a good independent tuner who uses something other than the SEST and fix the bike yourself.  It's the only way it's going to get done, and while it isn't right, it is the way it is.  At least by not buying their tuning product folks can make a statement to H-D.  I'd love to see them have to stop selling the product, either due to lack of sales or due to the EPA finally putting a stop to the BS that they know is going on with this "racing use only" crap.  I think you will find that the custom tune and something like the TTS software will be less expensive than that attorney, and you'll get much quicker results as well.  Damned shame, but that's life.


JMHO  -  Jerry

[ezpgh]

I would like to talk to HD's technical assistance and ask them straight out how and why do they sell a product that they are full aware is defective. They know full well, and have admitted that there is a problem with the software for the SEST, yet they continue to sell it. I want all my money back and I will file with my credit card company and the State Attorneys General's Office to get it if they refuse to refund me. Then I will get the TTS and bring the scoot into the house to be close to the computer if that's what it takes since I do not have a laptop. I am pretty much computer illiterate, so when the time comes I will be looking for all the help I can get to make it work.

[Mr. Wizard]

Between all of the regular ConV owners here we have a map that will be very close to being exactly what you need EZ. Any of these maps will remove the heat and bring the performance of our bike to light. The TTS will fix the 6th gear light but the SEST will not let it work. If Harley comes out with a fix you can apply it then if the light is important to you.

Our average oil temps run around 225 to 250* instead of 300+ that was stock.

You don't have to be computer literate for us to help you but it will be a great help if you can borrow a laptop.

If you would like help send me a PM and we'll talk. There have been several ConV owners here that have asked and are now enjoying their bikes and holding on tightly when they twist the throttle. I think you will find that any of us are more than willing to help out.... this goes to you too Paulie, if you want assistance... shout out. 

[Paulie]

Thanks Mr. Wizard;

I need all the help I can get.  Also, has anyone installed the big headlight?  Is it a big problem?

[Mr. Wizard]

Thanks Mr. Wizard;

I need all the help I can get.  Also, has anyone installed the big headlight?  Is it a big problem?

Paulie... check your email

I think there is a thread here that talks about the larger headlight. I'm sure they, who have done this, can help you out.

-wiz

[ezpgh]

Well I got hold of HD customer relations via phone and gave them a piece of my mind. They said the SEST software is not defective, that they don't consider popping on decel or the 6th gear light malfuncion a problem! They also said they are working on a software fix. I told them they have had this problem for 11 months minimum and are well aware of it and that continuing to sell the SEST knowing there is a software issue is deceptive and outright fraud. Guess what? I have a refund check for the full amount of the SEST and labor waiting on me at the dealer.

Mr. Wizard, as soon as I can I will look thru these threads and order up a TTS. I also have access to a laptop now too, so i'll be needing all the help I can get very soon.

Paulie, call HD and demand a refund for the SEST.

[Mr. Wizard]

Well I got hold of HD customer relations via phone and gave them a piece of my mind. They said the SEST software is not defective, that they don't consider popping on decel or the 6th gear light malfuncion a problem! They also said they are working on a software fix. I told them they have had this problem for 11 months minimum and are well aware of it and that continuing to sell the SEST knowing there is a software issue is deceptive and outright fraud. Guess what? I have a refund check for the full amount of the SEST and labor waiting on me at the dealer.

Mr. Wizard, as soon as I can I will look thru these threads and order up a TTS. I also have access to a laptop now too, so i'll be needed all the help I can get very soon.

Paulie, call HD and demand a refund for the SEST.

Just Da yum....

Working with Paulie today. He's got the dongle cable coming for his SEST but that cable is needed regardless of which tuner, SEST or TTS.

Only problem is HD CS won't speak with Paulie anymore...    LOL    



Edit..  oh yeah...  call me Wiz..  my Dad was Mr. Wizard.   

[ezpgh]

Just Da yum....

Working with Paulie today. He's got the dongle cable coming for his SEST but that cable is needed regardless of which tuner, SEST or TTS.

Only problem is HD CS won't speak with Paulie anymore...    LOL    



Edit..  oh yeah...  call me Wiz..  my Dad was Mr. Wizard.    

I only called them once and had my refund authorized within minutes. They know they are wrong for not notifying all the dealers of a software problem and didn't give me a hard time once I told them the problem is well known on the forums. My dealer knew nothing about it until he called them and they admitted it and said they are working on a fix. Doc1 will have my TTS in the mail tomorrow so Friday or Saturday I should be ready to give it a go. Thanks Wiz!

[Mr. Wizard]

PM sent

[Paulie]

Thanks Mr. Wizard..............my ConV is running much better now.  I can say without hestitation, you have a great understanding of the HD line.  maybe Harley should hire you instead of Harley's bandit mechanics. 

As I stated, I have owned many Harley's over the years, but this buying experience is the worst of any................for anything.  Reminds me of the AMF years.

Still thinking of the TTS

[Mr. Wizard]

No worries Paulie....

ezpgh just sent me an email and he will be visiting Zepka's with his new TTS next week. I'm very excited for him. You guys are going to have miles of smiles ahead.

[MikeV]

Kinda makes "I'm off to see the Wizard..."     take on a whole new meaning. I really hope Wiz does not wear sparkly robes...much  


MikeV

[Mr. Wizard]

Hoz your bike doing Mike?  Are you allowed back inside the house yet?

[ezpgh]

TTS and Dyno complete. I picked up a few HP (93.28) and some Torque (110.62), temps didn't decrease yet, 6th gear light still 50/50 because the tech didn't enter the correct primary ratio. It rus super good, couldn't ask for a smoother running bike.

[Paulie]

 
I have completed the re-flash, put 600 miles on the bike, I now have more backfiring, a bog on low end acc. and still running hot.  My 2 into 2 big radius do not have the O2 sensors installed.  Any thoughts?
Paulie

The bandit still has not beat me.  Probably need to go back to the HD dealer and try to explain something.

[Mr. Wizard]

  My 2 into 2 big radius do not have the O2 sensors installed.  Any thoughts?

For those reading this... it was a false alarm. We've told Paulie how dangerous it is walking around in the dark and have suggested, at the bare minimum, having one of those cap visor LED lights turned on. After hours of negotiations with Paulie he finally turned on the lights in the Bat Cave and found his 02 sensors.