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Author Topic: 2013 SEUC rear cylinder shut off in cool weather  (Read 3794 times)

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Lars

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2013 SEUC rear cylinder shut off in cool weather
« on: April 01, 2013, 10:50:49 PM »

I have a little over 2000 miles on my '13 SEUC. It was about 60 degrees outside the other day so I rode into town about 20 miles away. I was stopped at a light for about a minute when the rear cylinder shut off. That surprised the heck out of me. Is this normal or is it something I should be concerned about. Summers not here yet and I hate to think what it will be like when it does warm up. I need input from you guys that know what I'm dealing with and how to fix it. Your thoughts??
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Re: 2013 SEUC rear cylinder shut off in cool weather
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2013, 08:50:08 AM »

I have a little over 2000 miles on my '13 SEUC. It was about 60 degrees outside the other day so I rode into town about 20 miles away. I was stopped at a light for about a minute when the rear cylinder shut off. That surprised the heck out of me. Is this normal or is it something I should be concerned about. Summers not here yet and I hate to think what it will be like when it does warm up. I need input from you guys that know what I'm dealing with and how to fix it. Your thoughts??

The rear cylinder shut down at idle is a designed in feature for rider comfort called EITMS (Engine Idle Temperature Management System).  It's triggered by the cylinder head temperature reading, and Harley has it set relatively low so the system kicks in even when you think it's not all that hot yet.  If it irritates you, you can turn the system off.  The instructions on how to do that are in your manual.

Jerry
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miker

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Re: 2013 SEUC rear cylinder shut off in cool weather
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2013, 09:14:57 AM »

More miles the less it comes on, for me anyway...at 15000 it rarely comes on down herein sofla...ride it hard.
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ultrarider123

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Re: 2013 SEUC rear cylinder shut off in cool weather
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2013, 09:56:35 AM »

The rear cylinder shut down at idle is a designed in feature for rider comfort called EITMS (Engine Idle Temperature Management System).  It's triggered by the cylinder head temperature reading, and Harley has it set relatively low so the system kicks in even when you think it's not all that hot yet.  If it irritates you, you can turn the system off.  The instructions on how to do that are in your manual.

Jerry

As Jerry stated, temp of the cylinder head dictates the cut-out, not ambient temp.  I've ridden all winter and if I sit at the stop sign/light or in heavy traffic for any length of time, the EITMS cuts in.  Easy to turn off but doesn't hurt anything if it's on...just sounds like my Papaw's old single cylinder IH tractor and brings back memories at the stop light.... :2vrolijk_21:
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Lars

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Re: 2013 SEUC rear cylinder shut off in cool weather
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2013, 03:59:45 PM »

I want to thank all of you for your input. I was worried that it was unusual for it to be coming on so easily. I'll do as suggested and ride hard and see what additional miles bring.  Thanks.
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Re: 2013 SEUC rear cylinder shut off in cool weather
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2013, 06:38:00 PM »

As Jerry stated, temp of the cylinder head dictates the cut-out, not ambient temp.  I've ridden all winter and if I sit at the stop sign/light or in heavy traffic for any length of time, the EITMS cuts in.  Easy to turn off but doesn't hurt anything if it's on...just sounds like my Papaw's old single cylinder IH tractor and brings back memories at the stop light.... :2vrolijk_21:


Hey Howard, I thought this only kicks in if you roll back on the throttle while stopped in neutral?   :nixweiss:  Sounds like from what I've read on this post it does this without my imput.  :'( :nixweiss:
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Re: 2013 SEUC rear cylinder shut off in cool weather
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2013, 07:42:37 PM »


Hey Howard, I thought this only kicks in if you roll back on the throttle while stopped in neutral?   :nixweiss:  Sounds like from what I've read on this post it does this without my imput.  :'( :nixweiss:

It is an automatic function, not manual.  Unfortunately there have been a lot of people on the site and elsewhere perpetuating that idea that you could make it kick in at will just by rolling the throttle grip forward.  I imagine more than one clueless salesperson has also spouted the same bad info.  It's not true.

The whole "rolling the throttle back" deal comes from the routine you can perform to turn the automatic function on or off.  Refer to the owner's manual for the full instructions.  If the system is turned off and you're sitting at idle in traffic, rolling the throttle forward will do nothing but exercise your wrist.  If the system is turned on and you're sitting at idle in traffic, rolling the throttle forward will still do nothing unless you happen to do it at the exact same moment the automatic feature kicks in by itself.  In that situation someone might believe they did it by rolling the throttle forward, but trust me it was just a coincidence.

Jerry
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ultrarider123

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Re: 2013 SEUC rear cylinder shut off in cool weather
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2013, 10:22:41 PM »

Yep, Judy...couldn't have said it better than Jerry did. You can turn it off but when it's on, it's automatic at the set cylinder temp.
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jlacasci

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Re: 2013 SEUC rear cylinder shut off in cool weather
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2013, 08:19:57 AM »

Have you guys over here on cvoharley seen the fans produced by Wards Parts Werks?  There is a very long thread on the hdforums site on them.
I purchased them and put them on my new 2013 CVO.  Look fantastic and work absolutely as advertised.  My bike has not gone into heat management mode since I put them on.  I have nothing to do with the guy that designed these other than to think they are a great product.

http://www.wardspartswerks.com/

http://www.hdforums.com/forum/touring-models/713596-built-the-best-engine-cooling-system-again.html
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ultrarider123

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Re: 2013 SEUC rear cylinder shut off in cool weather
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2013, 08:43:09 AM »

Have you guys over here on cvoharley seen the fans produced by Wards Parts Werks?  There is a very long thread on the hdforums site on them.
I purchased them and put them on my new 2013 CVO.  Look fantastic and work absolutely as advertised.  My bike has not gone into heat management mode since I put them on.  I have nothing to do with the guy that designed these other than to think they are a great product.

To answer your question, yes.  There are lots of posts on the ward fans as well as other brands and here's a just a couple of the posts.
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=84135.0
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=74946.0

Thanks for the info and links.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 08:47:24 AM by Haird »
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grc

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Re: 2013 SEUC rear cylinder shut off in cool weather
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2013, 08:49:58 AM »

Have you guys over here on cvoharley seen the fans produced by Wards Parts Werks?  There is a very long thread on the hdforums site on them.
I purchased them and put them on my new 2013 CVO.  Look fantastic and work absolutely as advertised.  My bike has not gone into heat management mode since I put them on.  I have nothing to do with the guy that designed these other than to think they are a great product.

http://www.wardspartswerks.com/

http://www.hdforums.com/forum/touring-models/713596-built-the-best-engine-cooling-system-again.html

There are plenty of posts on this site about them as well.

One thing folks may not understand about using fans to keep the EITMS from kicking in is that doing so will actually negate the rider comfort function of the EITMS.  When EITMS kicks in, the rear cylinder becomes an air pump and not only the cylinder head is cooled but also the cylinder and the exhaust.  So if you're just looking to cool yourself off and your right leg in particular, the fans are actually counterproductive.  On the other hand, if you're trying to keep the cylinder head temps more consistent at low speeds as a form of mechanical insurance, then they should be beneficial.  Without lots of testing and data we of course can't say how beneficial, but common sense would say it's bound to be better than nothing.

Jerry
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Re: 2013 SEUC rear cylinder shut off in cool weather
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2013, 10:02:03 AM »

Putting on a free flowing cat-less exhaust (like a Fullsac, etc.) and having the bike tuned properly will cool it down, and EITMS will likely never come on unless you're sitting in traffic for a long time. The stock tune is very lean to please the EPA, and it - plus the cat in the head pipes, and those SE 255 cams - make the engine run very hot.

EITMS is there to help cool the engine down when stopped by cutting out the rear cylinder - to help the rider's comfort, and more importantly to help prevent the engine from burning itself up due to lack of airflow.

The Wards fans will help, too... I run them - but they only address the symptoms, not the cause, of heat. Nothing helps a big air-cooled engine like airflow, but the best approach is to not produce all of the heat in the first place - via a better exhaust, better breathing cams, and a good tune.

Ken
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Re: 2013 SEUC rear cylinder shut off in cool weather
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2013, 12:10:22 PM »

Putting on a free flowing cat-less exhaust (like a Fullsac, etc.) and having the bike tuned properly will cool it down, and EITMS will likely never come on unless you're sitting in traffic for a long time. The stock tune is very lean to please the EPA, and it - plus the cat in the head pipes, and those SE 255 cams - make the engine run very hot.

EITMS is there to help cool the engine down when stopped by cutting out the rear cylinder - to help the rider's comfort, and more importantly to help prevent the engine from burning itself up due to lack of airflow.

The Wards fans will help, too... I run them - but they only address the symptoms, not the cause, of heat. Nothing helps a big air-cooled engine like airflow, but the best approach is to not produce all of the heat in the first place - via a better exhaust, better breathing cams, and a good tune.

Ken

The only problem with that Ken is that it only cools down the rear cylinder, and the front has to actually work harder to keep the bike running so I'd bet the temp actually goes up on the front.  A smarter idea would have been to alternate the cylinders, but that wouldn't have reduced the heat felt by the rider as much.

I agree that a better tune and gutting the emissions system helps, but there will likely come a time when those options won't be available.  Then Harley will have to finally learn how to make their bikes emissions friendly and not melt either the engine or the rider, all at the same time.  It can be done, even without water cooling, if they really wanted to spend the effort and money to do it.  So far they prefer to let the customers do it for them, at the customers expense and the MoCo's profit. 

Jerry
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Re: 2013 SEUC rear cylinder shut off in cool weather
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2013, 09:00:43 PM »

The only problem with that Ken is that it only cools down the rear cylinder, and the front has to actually work harder to keep the bike running so I'd bet the temp actually goes up on the front.  A smarter idea would have been to alternate the cylinders, but that wouldn't have reduced the heat felt by the rider as much.

I agree that a better tune and gutting the emissions system helps, but there will likely come a time when those options won't be available.  Then Harley will have to finally learn how to make their bikes emissions friendly and not melt either the engine or the rider, all at the same time.  It can be done, even without water cooling, if they really wanted to spend the effort and money to do it.  So far they prefer to let the customers do it for them, at the customers expense and the MoCo's profit. 

Jerry

Amen, Brother Jerry! And we are all gullible enough to spend a lot of money buying these bikes, and then spend even more money making them run like they can and should! We're lucky the EPA Overlord hasn't yet cracked down on the entire Harley aftermarket, and like you I'm sure they will eventually.

I would welcome liquid-cooled Harleys, if it helped with the heat and didn't need to run so lean to meet emissions. Other manufacturers have done liquid-cooled V-Twins for years, and they sell. The MoCo needs to understand that the Harley-buying public will accept liquid cooling if it makes the bikes run better. Perhaps the Softail and Dyna folks might have a problem with the looks of a big radiator out front, but those us in the bagger crowd probably wouldn't even notice it.

Now that Willie G. is gone, perhaps the MoCo will step into the 21st century of engine technology and not be so overburdened with the traditions of the big air-cooled V-Twin. Heck, my 1985 Kawasaki Eliminator 900 was liquid cooled, and would turn a sub-11 QM, and go from 0-60 in 2.7 seconds... BONE STOCK. And that was 28 years ago!

The new-Harley-buying public is no longer made up of the "biker gang" types, and hasn't been for a long time. I dare say that most Harley buyers would very much like a motorcycle that performs well, is reliable, and doesn't cook them or go into EITMS mode constantly. Liquid cooling would probably be the easiest way to make that happen, as all of the metric manufacturers adopted long ago.

There are not many big air-cooled manufacturers left... Indian's new 111 is air cooled, and it will probably run as hot as fire, too. There's a reason the auto industry dispensed with air cooling decades ago... Water is 3600 times as dense as air, and is much more effective at heat transfer.

When I was with IBM in the 80s and we still made big, expensive, water-cooled mainframe computers... And our competitors like Hitachi and Amdahl were all air-cooled... We used to ask customers "If you were on fire, which would rather I do... throw water on you, or BLOW on you?" That generally ended the debate!

Ken
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