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CVO Technical => Twin Cam => Topic started by: Billy on April 07, 2007, 04:50:43 PM
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i have been reading what everyone says about the excess heat on the 110's. has anyone talked to HD about the issue and do they think it is too hot.
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Spoke with MOCO factory rep 2weeks ago my springer is runing at about 260 degrees on back roads with air temps at 78 to 84 degrees. I have not done any motor work yet. The rep said that was normal for the 110,s She also said it can go as high as 300 degrees... I think it 's BS so I will either sell it or do the pipe sert cam and AF and hope for the best. PS the rep said that they do not have any issues with the 110;s .I guess everyone on this site is full of it,or is it the MOCO. Maybe we can start a plan for folks to start calling the factory with their concerns then things may change..... :o :o :o
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After the mods I made my bike runs cooler than stock. Being concerned about heat I asked about oil temps and about an oilcooler. The SM said the oil temps should be 220 to 230 and added that an oil cooler is useless when you really need it most, stopped in traffic, no air flow. With that being said. I bought an LED dipstick to monitor the temp and will do a fan assist to the rear jug if it gets too hot. Also I would add a fan to an oilcooler if I got one.
Iron
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Spoke with MOCO factory rep 2weeks ago my springer is runing at about 260 degrees on back roads with air temps at 78 to 84 degrees. I have not done any motor work yet. The rep said that was normal for the 110,s She also said it can go as high as 300 degrees... I think it 's BS so I will either sell it or do the pipe sert cam and AF and hope for the best. PS the rep said that they do not have any issues with the 110;s .I guess everyone on this site is full of it,or is it the MOCO. Maybe we can start a plan for folks to start calling the factory with their concerns then things may change..... :o :o :o
I can remember when the MoCo was denying that there was a chrome issue........they they were denying that there is a history of paint issues. But down the road.......those denials do go away for the most part.
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And lets not forget how they vehemently discouraged the use of synthetic motor oil until they released their own.
And speaking of the Oil/Temperature readout dipsticks, I was amazed when I read my directions the other day and they stated something to the effect of the LCD display will not read when exposed to extreme heat which can occur when riding during stop and go traffic in warm weather conditions. I bought it for that very purpose, not to check the temperature when I’ve been cruising down the back roads in 50° weather.
rant over!
Gregg
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And lets not forget how they vehemently discouraged the use of synthetic motor oil until they released their own.
And speaking of the Oil/Temperature readout dipsticks, I was amazed when I read my directions the other day and they stated something to the effect of the LCD display will not read when exposed to extreme heat which can occur when riding during stop and go traffic in warm weather conditions. I bought it for that very purpose, not to check the temperature when I’ve been cruising down the back roads in 50° weather.
rant over!
Gregg
This has been a problem with the LCD sticks since they started selling them. In direct sunlight, the display will turn black from the heat. This is a problem with LCD's, and not related to their part.
Chief
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This has been a problem with the LCD sticks since they started selling them. In direct sunlight, the display will turn black from the heat. This is a problem with LCD's, and not related to their part.
Chief
Cheif,
Thanks for the heads up on the LCD. I have Spun Aluminum Gauges going in next week, I will add the oil temp instead of the air..
Thanks,
Iron
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This has been a problem with the LCD sticks since they started selling them. In direct sunlight, the display will turn black from the heat. This is a problem with LCD's, and not related to their part.
Chief
My parts guy warned me off of the LCD dipsticks saying they die frequently and early so I got the analog type. Works for me.
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Cheif,
Thanks for the heads up on the LCD. I have Spun Aluminum Gauges going in next week, I will add the oil temp instead of the air..
Thanks,
Iron
Steven, there are a couple of threads here on the oil temp gauge. Short version of all of it, however, is don't follow the directions.
Instead of using the power harness supplied with the gauge make a little pigtail and use the power and ground to the stock gauge. No new wire to string for those that way. The socket to the stock bulb won't be used anymore at all.
When mounting the sending unit don't even consider doing the kludge of an install recommended in the instructions. Instead get a reducer fitting at the parts store and use it to thread the sending unit in to the "other" drain hole next to the standard drain hole in the oil pan. Bring the signal lead up to the gauge and ground it's other side somewhere in route.
This makes for a much easier and much cleaner install than will following the OE instructions for the gauge kit.
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Steven, there are a couple of threads here on the oil temp gauge. Short version of all of it, however, is don't follow the directions.
Instead of using the power harness supplied with the gauge make a little pigtail and use the power and ground to the stock gauge. No new wire to string for those that way. The socket to the stock bulb won't be used anymore at all.
When mounting the sending unit don't even consider doing the kludge of an install recommended in the instructions. Instead get a reducer fitting at the parts store and use it to thread the sending unit in to the "other" drain hole next to the standard drain hole in the oil pan. Bring the signal lead up to the gauge and ground it's other side somewhere in route.
This makes for a much easier and much cleaner install than will following the OE instructions for the gauge kit.
Happy Easter Don,
Thanks for the info. The shop owes me some labor, so they are doing them for me.
Take care!
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Happy Easter Don,
Thanks for the info. The shop owes me some labor, so they are doing them for me.
Take care!
Good deal. No out of pocket expense is always preferable than paying again. Tell them to be sure and hang the sending unit down below though. If they do as per instructions you'll have issues. No sense in re-doing other's problems.
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Do you have a photo of what you are talking about?
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Steven, there are a couple of threads here on the oil temp gauge. Short version of all of it, however, is don't follow the directions.
Instead of using the power harness supplied with the gauge make a little pigtail and use the power and ground to the stock gauge. No new wire to string for those that way. The socket to the stock bulb won't be used anymore at all.
When mounting the sending unit don't even consider doing the kludge of an install recommended in the instructions. Instead get a reducer fitting at the parts store and use it to thread the sending unit in to the "other" drain hole next to the standard drain hole in the oil pan. Bring the signal lead up to the gauge and ground it's other side somewhere in route.
This makes for a much easier and much cleaner install than will following the OE instructions for the gauge kit.
What is the install process for the 07's? Since we don't have the oil lines between the motor and tank, I wonder how they instruct you to install the kit now? Anyone know? Maybe they've gotten smart and put it in the tank now. Any chance of that?
Chief
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Chief,
It is the same as the 06.
Here is the link to the thread in the old system:
http://flhrsei.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1145447973
I had it bookmarked for reference while I did mine. I don't know how to translated to the new bb format.
In essence, don't tap the oil cooler lines in as instructed, route sending unit to spare oil drain port in pan.
T-lane has excellent picture of drain port -- look for dead cat reference. I can't seem to find the picture via search.
Mark
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Chief,
It is the same as the 06.
Here is the link to the thread in the old system:
http://flhrsei.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1145447973
I had it bookmarked for reference while I did mine. I don't know how to translated to the new bb format.
In essence, don't tap the oil cooler lines in as instructed, route sending unit to spare oil drain port in pan.
T-lane has excellent picture of drain port -- look for dead cat reference. I can't seem to find the picture via search.
Mark
I was wondering if they had updated their installation instructions since the old procedure involved putting the sensor into a hose that doesn't exist on the 07's. I guess they haven't figured that out yet.
Chief
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Chief,
It is the same as the 06.
Here is the link to the thread in the old system:
http://flhrsei.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1145447973
I had it bookmarked for reference while I did mine. I don't know how to translated to the new bb format.
In essence, don't tap the oil cooler lines in as instructed, route sending unit to spare oil drain port in pan.
T-lane has excellent picture of drain port -- look for dead cat reference. I can't seem to find the picture via search.
Mark
Chuck, prior to 07s mounting the sending unit in the pan was simply easier and didn't require removal and loss of the chrome oil line cover (that also left an open view of the new plumbing and sending unit). The riders with the new oil cooler have even reported that the location keeps the sending unit from reporting properly. The in-the-pan install is still much easier and gives a cleaner look. You'll need to hit the hardware store to get a piece of brass. Reducer from 1/2" pipe to 3/8" if I remember correctly. Use the hole marked "crank" in the picture.
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Chief,
It is the same as the 06.
Here is the link to the thread in the old system:
http://flhrsei.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1145447973
I had it bookmarked for reference while I did mine. I don't know how to translated to the new bb format.
In essence, don't tap the oil cooler lines in as instructed, route sending unit to spare oil drain port in pan.
T-lane has excellent picture of drain port -- look for dead cat reference. I can't seem to find the picture via search.
Mark
Try this link - Spun Aluminum Oil Temp Gaugue (http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=5986.msg84483;topicseen#msg84483)
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
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Thanks guys. I understand the "proper" mounting location as that is where I mounted the VDO gauge I have on my '99. This is something I added in 2000, before HD ever sold an oil temp kit. My question is centered around what the MoCo is now telling people to do on the 2007 models because there is no exposed oil line on the new motors. The oil lines are now cast into a passage in the transmission casting. This also means we can no longer add the chrome oil line cover as was possible on the '99 to '06 models.
This was just a question to satisfy my own curiosity. I am currently happy with the LCD dipstick I added. If it fails I may replace the air temp / rain gauge with the HD offering. Maybe by then, they will add the pins so it matches the rest of the gauges better.
Chief
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so -- what is the max safe temp on the 110 280/290/300?
mark
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Chuck, prior to 07s mounting the sending unit in the pan was simply easier and didn't require removal and loss of the chrome oil line cover (that also left an open view of the new plumbing and sending unit). The riders with the new oil cooler have even reported that the location keeps the sending unit from reporting properly. The in-the-pan install is still much easier and gives a cleaner look. You'll need to hit the hardware store to get a piece of brass. Reducer from 1/2" pipe to 3/8" if I remember correctly. Use the hole marked "crank" in the picture.
Thank you for the info, I know you suggested the aux crank position, but in the photo there is a better place.
Properly placed in the dead cats arse I believe will net the most accurate temperature, isn't that where they take our temp? :huepfenlol2:
Seriously, HD has a part # for something for the 07, Dealer is closed today so I will check on Tuesday.
Here is the P/N and discreption 26133-07 KIT ADAPTER OIL TEMPERA.
I like the reducer comming right out of the pan idea.
Thanks again ;D
IronButt
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so -- what is the max safe temp on the 110?
mark
Yes So far no one has reallyanswer the original topic, We seem to be off the subject. Like Mark says what is the max temp and to what effect does 10 degrees make. To me as soon as you slow down to take the temps on any air cooled engine you could be way off from normal running temps. Billy
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Yes So far no one has reallyanswer the original topic, We seem to be off the subject. Like Mark says what is the max temp and to what effect does 10 degrees make. To me as soon as you slow down to take the temps on any air cooled engine you could be way off from normal running temps. Billy
Billy,
Your question was answered in the following 2 quotes, the first 2 responses:
Spoke with MOCO factory rep 2weeks ago my springer is runing at about 260 degrees on back roads with air temps at 78 to 84 degrees. I have not done any motor work yet. The rep said that was normal for the 110,s She also said it can go as high as 300 degrees... I think it 's BS so I will either sell it or do the pipe sert cam and AF and hope for the best. PS the rep said that they do not have any issues with the 110;s .I guess everyone on this site is full of it,or is it the MOCO. Maybe we can start a plan for folks to start calling the factory with their concerns then things may change..... :o :o :o
After the mods I made my bike runs cooler than stock. Being concerned about heat I asked about oil temps and about an oilcooler. The SM said the oil temps should be 220 to 230 and added that an oil cooler is useless when you really need it most, stopped in traffic, no air flow. With that being said. I bought an LED dipstick to monitor the temp and will do a fan assist to the rear jug if it gets too hot. Also I would add a fan to an oilcooler if I got one.
Iron
If these answers do not satisfy you I suggest you ask your SM.
Also, as far as the off topic remark goes. We are well within the topic, 2 Global Moderators have posted in this topic. If they felt we were off topic, they wold tell us, BELIVE ME!
Topics tend to evolve and cover all things involved. The subject here OIL TEMP, once answered IT HAS BEEN, now how do we get the temp reading. You yourself just brought up riding or stopped readings. Should we just ignore your OFF TOPIC (as you say it is not a number) remarks?
Your question was answered and we are well with in the realm of this topic, IMOP and possably the 2 Global Moderators.
IronButt
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Thanks guys. I understand the "proper" mounting location as that is where I mounted the VDO gauge I have on my '99. This is something I added in 2000, before HD ever sold an oil temp kit. My question is centered around what the MoCo is now telling people to do on the 2007 models because there is no exposed oil line on the new motors. The oil lines are now cast into a passage in the transmission casting. This also means we can no longer add the chrome oil line cover as was possible on the '99 to '06 models.
This was just a question to satisfy my own curiosity. I am currently happy with the LCD dipstick I added. If it fails I may replace the air temp / rain gauge with the HD offering. Maybe by then, they will add the pins so it matches the rest of the gauges better.
Chief
The oil temp sensor adapter for 2007 models is similar to what is used for the oil cooler lines. If you already have an oil cooler, you don't need any of the adapter kit parts except the "T" fitting to tap into the oil cooler return line (H-D doesn't tell you that and you could get one at any auto parts store for about $2). This sensor mount posistion gives you the temp of the oil after it passes through the cooler which is why many do not like it. If you do not have an oil cooler, the adapter is the same except instead of having fittings for the cooler lines, one side is plugged and the other is where the temp sensor mounts.
The oil pan mount location mentioned by others is by far the best location
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Yes So far no one has reallyanswer the original topic, We seem to be off the subject. Like Mark says what is the max temp and to what effect does 10 degrees make. To me as soon as you slow down to take the temps on any air cooled engine you could be way off from normal running temps. Billy
Oil temp may be an indicator, but rear head temp is really the critical measurement to monitor. Head temps will fluxuate far more rapidly than the oil will. Zipper's sets the T-Max Engine Check Light to illuminate when the head temp reaches 325 degrees. Sustained operation at this temp will cause problems and if you can't get moving to cool the heads, you need to pull over and let it cool down. The stock ECM is programmed to change fuel/spark idle behavior to try and mitigate this much heat. T-Max can be programmed to drop idle speed and retard timing as things heat up.
This may not be exactly what you were looking for but it should help.
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Oil temp may be an indicator, but rear head temp is really the critical measurement to monitor. Head temps will fluxuate far more rapidly than the oil will. Zipper's sets the T-Max Engine Check Light to illuminate when the rear head temp reaches 325 degrees. Sustained operation at this temp will cause problems and if you can't get moving to cool the heads, you need to pull over and let it cool down. The stock ECM is programmed to change fuel/spark idle behavior to try and mitigate this much heat. T-Max can be programmed to drop idle speed and retard timing as things heat up.
This may not be exactly what you were looking for but it should help.
Unless you add a second cylinder head temperature (CHT) gauge, the only head temp you've got is the one on the front head, the cool head. We have had several board members, myself included, who have seen temps in excess of 375 degrees on the rear head.
In speaking with the SM at the local dealer, he said his "oh chit" point is set somewhere near 400 - 425 degrees. I've never seen anything near that, but I have seen 382 once. This is rear head temp, not front. This temperature will not be recorded by the ECM because the ECM only measures the front head temp.
Chief
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The oil temp sensor adapter for 2007 models is similar to what is used for the oil cooler lines. If you already have an oil cooler, you don't need any of the adapter kit parts except the "T" fitting to tap into the oil cooler return line (H-D doesn't tell you that and you could get one at any auto parts store for about $2). This sensor mount posistion gives you the temp of the oil after it passes through the cooler which is why many do not like it. If you do not have an oil cooler, the adapter is the same except instead of having fittings for the cooler lines, one side is plugged and the other is where the temp sensor mounts.
The oil pan mount location mentioned by others is by far the best location
So to do it the MoCo way, instead of simply installing it in the logical position, the oil tank, I have to buy a special adapter, or cut into the oil cooler lines. Yeah, that's well thought out.
Chief
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Unless you add a second cylinder head temperature (CHT) gauge, the only head temp you've got is the one on the front head, the cool head. We have had several board members, myself included, who have seen temps in excess of 375 degrees on the rear head.
In speaking with the SM at the local dealer, he said his "oh chit" point is set somewhere near 400 - 425 degrees. I've never seen anything near that, but I have seen 382 once. This is rear head temp, not front. This temperature will not be recorded by the ECM because the ECM only measures the front head temp.
Chief Thanks Thaat helps. i get the feeling from the all the threads that my bike will not make it very long with high temps. i really don't want to change the sound and can't find true duals that are quite enough for me. Thanks Billy
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Chief Thanks Thaat helps. i get the feeling from the all the threads that my bike will not make it very long with high temps. i really don't want to change the sound and can't find true duals that are quite enough for me. Thanks Billy
Billy,
You could get true dual head pipes, like the V&H, and use your stock mufflers on them. That will keep it quiet and move heat from the right side.
Good luck,
Chief
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So to do it the MoCo way, instead of simply installing it in the logical position, the oil tank, I have to buy a special adapter, or cut into the oil cooler lines. Yeah, that's well thought out.
Chief
Well, sort of. The special adaptor is just two dollar brass fitting at any hardware store, home center or auto parts store.
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Well, sort of. The special adaptor is just two dollar brass fitting at any hardware store, home center or auto parts store.
I was refering to installing the sensor as the MoCo would have me do it, and if I didn't have an oil cooler, I'd have to buy their gizmo to put the sensor next to the oil filter.
Too much crow for them to eat if they install it in the extra hole in the oil tank.
Chief
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I was refering to installing the sensor as the MoCo would have me do it, and if I didn't have an oil cooler, I'd have to buy their gizmo to put the sensor next to the oil filter.
Too much crow for them to eat if they install it in the extra hole in the oil tank.
Chief
Oh yeah, completely agree. That stock instructed mounting for the 07s looks like a big CF to me. More parts, ugly parts, still not working very well. Gag.....
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Oh yeah, completely agree. That stock instructed mounting for the 07s looks like a big CF to me. More parts, ugly parts, still not working very well. Gag.....
Whew.....
That was a close one. I was beginning to think I was typing in another language. I've always agreed the sensor should go in the oil tank, just questioning their instructions, that's all.
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Whew.....
That was a close one. I was beginning to think I was typing in another language. I've always agreed the sensor should go in the oil tank, just questioning their instructions, that's all.
Chuck, the "other language" is sometimes what happens when I quickly scan the posts before responding rather than actually reading them too. Sometimes Don's attention span is a bit too short.... :confused5: :nixweiss: ;D
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Chuck, the "other language" is sometimes what happens when I quickly scan the posts before responding rather than actually reading them too. Sometimes Don's attention span is a bit too short.... :confused5: :nixweiss: ;D
No problemo, mi amigo.
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Well, sort of. The special adaptor is just two dollar brass fitting at any hardware store, home center or auto parts store.
Do they have it in Chrome?
IronButt
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Do they have it in Chrome?
IronButt
Check with Grover. He just put on a chromed oil pan. It's an accessory he'd be looking for :drink: .
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Check with Grover. He just put on a chromed oil pan. It's an accessory he'd be looking for :drink: .
Hope he doesn't forget which shiny side to keep up :huepfenlol2:
Are we off topic :2vrolijk_21:
IronButt
Thanks for the pic!
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I've heard from my dealer the 110 should run between 230-270. Has anyone tried the fan kit for touring models, Part # 91550-00C on page 459 in the P&A.
Does this piece of kit do what it should.
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Bump :: Great topic
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Bump :: Great topic
We've also got AJ's similar topic going too. Maybe this will give some new readers a bit more info on the subject. There's another one here too, Hot Head 110, or something like that. Too damn tired to search for it.
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Here I go, IMHO,
If your bike is tuned for real world, and also override and correct the EPA restrictions (covered everywhere on these boards) then you don't need no stinkin fan.
Rhino(coolrunnings)
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Now that the weather is warmer here in New Englang, I have found that ther temp on the LCD Dipstick averages 198 in the cooler evenings and just under 230 during the warmest part of the day moving. I have not been in Laconia traffic at 100 degrees...yet.
I have SE slip ons, K&N, and DFO Techlusion. The SERK is powerful and the plugs look great.
:mango: :bananarock: :orange: :pepper: :pineapple: :cucumber:
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I've heard from my dealer the 110 should run between 230-270. Has anyone tried the fan kit for touring models, Part # 91550-00C on page 459 in the P&A.
Sure makes me happy that I don't have a H-D 110 motor. My Zipper's 117" runs about 210-213 degrees on an 85-90 degree day. Maybe the moco should outsource their motor building to Zipper's? :-\
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Sure makes me happy that I don't have a H-D 110 motor. My Zipper's 117" runs about 210-213 degrees on an 85-90 degree day. Maybe the moco should outsource their motor building to Zipper's? :-\
I would venture to guess that if you put the Zipper's upgraded engine into the CVO as the factory stock engine, you'd have the same heat problem....and that is because Zipper's doesn't have to meet EPA requirements as a complete unit (emission, noise, etc.), like the MoCo does. That Zipper's engine would come out of the factory with the same AFR, restrictive pipes, and air cleaner just like the 110 does....Zippers would have no control over that. I haven't had the heat issues on the 110 and never had, since I had the stock pipes, mufflers, and AC changed before I even drove it out from the dealership. JMHO.
Cheers :2vrolijk_21:,
:devil:
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I would venture to guess that if you put the Zipper's upgraded engine into the CVO as the factory stock engine, you'd have the same heat problem....and that is because Zipper's doesn't have to meet EPA requirements as a complete unit (emission, noise, etc.), like the MoCo does. That Zipper's engine would come out of the factory with the same AFR, restrictive pipes, and air cleaner just like the 110 does....Zippers would have no control over that. I haven't had the heat issues on the 110 and never had, since I had the stock pipes, mufflers, and AC changed before I even drove it out from the dealership. JMHO.
And you are one of the lucky ones, because I know others that have, not to mention the numerous other problems related to these motors. It seems as if there are many more problems with these 110's than they had with the 103's when they first came out with them. If your 110 is problem free, as many are, I say count your blessings. JMHO too.
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And you are one of the lucky ones, because I know others that have, not to mention the numerous other problems related to these motors. It seems as if there are many more problems with these 110's than they had with the 103's when they first came out with them. If your 110 is problem free, as many are, I say count your blessings. JMHO too.
Amen to that, I really hate to say this, and I hope Im wrong, but I think we have only seen the tip of the iceberg with the 110's as far as engine issues go. Who knows how these will do when they hit 20k, or 30k etc. and the warrantys are expired. My buddys a wrench at an L.A. dealership, he says, and I quote " The 110's are a p.o.s., MoCo really f-up, ed', and they know it. But its good for me, means lots of work" btw, he's the guy with the least amount of senority in the service dept. And we all know how MoCo steps up when there is a potential problem that may mean lots of $$ fixing it. lol, oh wait, no they don't. They will keep pumping these out the factory door as fast as they can sell them and denie there is a problem. Again, thats just his opinion, and I really hope that he is wrong. Im also glad i didnt get rid of my '06 with the paint problem now, and get that '07 I was close to getting when the B&O first came out. GL guys.
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Amen to that, I really hate to say this, and I hope Im wrong, but I think we have only seen the tip of the iceberg with the 110's as far as engine issues go. Who knows how these will do when they hit 20k, or 30k etc. and the warrantys are expired. My buddys a wrench at an L.A. dealership, he says, and I quote " The 110's are a p.o.s., MoCo really f-up, ed', and they know it. But its good for me, means lots of work" btw, he's the guy with the least amount of senority in the service dept. And we all know how MoCo steps up when there is a potential problem that may mean lots of $$ fixing it. lol, oh wait, no they don't. They will keep pumping these out the factory door as fast as they can sell them and denie there is a problem. Again, thats just his opinion, and I really hope that he is wrong. Im also glad i didnt get rid of my '06 with the paint problem now, and get that '07 I was close to getting when the B&O first came out. GL guys.
I think, like any new line of product, there are going to be issues. Every company likes to get their "latest and greatest" out to the buying public as soon as they can. If they, the MoCo, had R&D'd this engine to the point of knowing all the failure points or potential problems, we may have seen it in another 5 or six years. Unfortunately, in order for the MoCo to keep up with the "bigger is better" attitude that seems to be coming out of Japan, they have to put their product out sooner to keep up with the Jones'. It's all about bottom line and the MoCo will, in their own way, be that bad or good, address the issues that come up with this new line. I went into buying this bike knowing that I was getting a "first year" model, mainly because I wanted an Ultra and figured this would be the last year of the CVO Ultra for probably another 4 years. So, unfortunately, just like when I buy a first year model of a car or truck, I expect problems to crop up...another reason why I got the extended service contract on my CVO too. It was/is a chance I'm willing to take to get the bike I wanted.
Cheers :2vrolijk_21:,
:devil:
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If you love Harleys and plan on keeping the bike, it's not the "end all" if there are issues. HD will make good on defects if caught early enough, and there's nothing on this bike that can't be made better than new. Having owned Harleys for many years, I've spent more money on them than I'd like to admit. You do what you have to do to be happy with your bike. It's not a hobby to me, it's my life! I've been used to the HD Ownership Experience for quite some time. This isn't the first time for issues on a new release. If you're looking for a completely trouble-free bike (with no soul whatsoever) buy a Jap Bike or a BMW! You buy a Harley, you buy the idiosyncrasies that go with it! Hoist! 8)
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It's interesting how we're talking about POS motors again. I think that is the kind of talk I was hearing in 1999 when the Twin Cam first came out. Anyone remember all the bitching and moaning about how the MoCo put out such a POS motor with exploding rear cam bearings? The 110 is no different. The 103 didn't have "first year itis" because it wasn't a new motor, just a stroked 95". Unless these things start grenading right and left, the weak points will be found and addressed and then we should have another dependable platform.
Problems, sure they suck, but it's all part of the game. If you don't want problems, go buy a Gold Wing.
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go buy a Gold Wing.
1800 Wing
104 RWHP
109.9 Torque
898 lbs.
If I wanted to go slow I might consider one.
Alright, I have considered.
No wing for me.
Go fast or go home!
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It's interesting how we're talking about POS motors again. I think that is the kind of talk I was hearing in 1999 when the Twin Cam first came out. Anyone remember all the bitching and moaning about how the MoCo put out such a POS motor with exploding rear cam bearings? The 110 is no different. The 103 didn't have "first year itis" because it wasn't a new motor, just a stroked 95". Unless these things start grenading right and left, the weak points will be found and addressed and then we should have another dependable platform.
Problems, sure they suck, but it's all part of the game. If you don't want problems, go buy a Gold Wing.
Had a Wing....had problems. Nothing is immune from problems. Actually, I had more problems with my Wing, then I ever had with any Harley I've ever owned....even my '80 AMF "Bowling-Ball" Sporty.
Cheers :2vrolijk_21:,
:devil:
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If you love Harleys and plan on keeping the bike, it's not the "end all" if there are issues. HD will make good on defects if caught early enough, and there's nothing on this bike that can't be made better than new. Having owned Harleys for many years, I've spent more money on them than I'd like to admit. You do what you have to do to be happy with your bike. It's not a hobby to me, it's my life! I've been used to the HD Ownership Experience for quite some time. This isn't the first time for issues on a new release. If you're looking for a completely trouble-free bike (with no soul whatsoever) buy a Jap Bike or a BMW! You buy a Harley, you buy the idiosyncrasies that go with it! Hoist! 8)
id·i·o·syn·cra·sy –noun, plural -sies.
1. a characteristic, habit, mannerism, or the like, that is peculiar to an individual.
2. the physical constitution peculiar to an individual
Idiosyncrasies? I would consider most of the problems experienced with the 110's as more than idiosyncrasies. It seems that the ones that give trouble, give LOTS of trouble. Tell the guy whose motor locked up, dumped him and totaled his bike that it was due to an idiosyncrasy in the motor. More like an idiot-syncrasy from the moco for releasing these motors, and continuing to release them with numerous known problems. They are by most accounts POS motors, folks are spending big bucks getting them to run right and keeping them running, and I for one am glad that I don't own one. :soapbox: O.K., I'm off it now.
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1800 Wing
104 RWHP
109.9 Torque
898 lbs.
If I wanted to go slow I might consider one.
Alright, I have considered.
No wing for me.
Go fast or go home!
Plus they look like a Gold Wing, and that's even worse than heavy/slow.
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id·i·o·syn·cra·sy –noun, plural -sies.
1. a characteristic, habit, mannerism, or the like, that is peculiar to an individual.
2. the physical constitution peculiar to an individual
Idiosyncrasies? I would consider most of the problems experienced with the 110's as more than idiosyncrasies. It seems that the ones that give trouble, give LOTS of trouble. Tell the guy whose motor locked up, dumped him and totaled his bike that it was due to an idiosyncrasy in the motor. More like an idiot-syncrasy from the moco for releasing these motors, and continuing to release them with numerous known problems. They are by most accounts POS motors, folks are spending big bucks getting them to run right and keeping them running, and I for one am glad that I don't own one. :soapbox: O.K., I'm off it now.
Well let's see. The shovelheads were considered POS. Hmmm, they were around many years, with their inferior quality control, and Harley guys stayed loyal. They're still on the road. Early Evo's, porous cases, bad cams, spun bearings. The Evo was the best motor they built at that time. They still replace bad cases from older Evo's today. TC 88, bad cam bearing design, leaned out carb models that spit and coughed better than they ran. Became the most reliable motor ever. Bad 110" bikes, motors replaced. Bad starter ring gears, entire clutch assembly replaced.
I work for a major Air Conditioning manufacturer. Design a new product and get it on the streets. If it's not right, we'll fix it in the field. That's Corporate America today. Shareholders come first! Increase revenue, growth, higher profits. This is what drives these corporations, not making sure they have the absolute best, most reliable product. How a company deals with their issues, determines how they're judged and where their market share goes. Brand name loyalty has a role in this too. HD has about the highest brand loyalty that you can ask for. Don't think for a minute they don't know that. Do they take advantage of it? Damn straight. Do they test our patience and push us to the brink? Yeah, they sure seem to do that too. Do they eventually make good? IMO, yes they do. There will aways be folks that slip thru the cracks, and can't get satisfaction. They lose these customers. But the loyal ones stick with it and eventually get satisfaction.
A Harley is a labor of love and a passion. Do we put up with more than most would for other products. You bet your ass! Why? Cause we have that passion and HD knows it. Will it stop us or prevent us from buying another one. Some people yes, most people no. It depends on that level of passion you have. POS, I say not! This ain't no rocket ship! Anything on the bike can be replaced with stronger, better chit. It's a motorcycle. Relatively simple stuff. We have a fantastic site, with many brilliant people participating. We find out everything there is to know about these bikes. We know more than most dealers do about our bikes. If you're looking for a completely trouble-free ownership experience, don't buy a Harley. Would I buy anything else? F NO!!!
Yep, idiosyncrasies! That's what I call it, I stand by it, and am willing to deal with it!
Hoist! 8)
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My $.02 - even though things are not perfect they are so VERY much better than they were that there is no comparison. Not only our Harleys but our cages. Just look at the absolute crap Detroit and yes many of the foreign brands were putting out not all that long ago. Sure you cannot catch every single possible contingency during development but the quality is much, much better than it has ever been. jmho