www.CVOHARLEY.com
CVO Technical => Milwaukee-Eight => Topic started by: Brooklyn on June 03, 2019, 11:35:43 PM
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Purchased my 3rd H-D last year, Went Big, 2018 CVO Road Glide, heard all the chatter but bought it anyway. 3100 miles later, Sumped on 400 mile road trip, one qt low, extreme heat, loss of power, 100 miles on 6 gal tank of fuel... Local dealer picked up bike at hotel, 2 days on phone & email with support techs, conclusion was voided power train warranty due to unapproved tuning. Heard all the horror stories but we've been tuning & altering for years. Just an excuse to move on from the issue. Bike is currently at GMR Performance in Fort Worth Texas, Loose piston jet oilers, Bad oil pump, Seized Crank & the hits keep coming. This bike will be re-built to 128, with quality parts & competent builder. #3 is it for me.
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Sorry to hear you got a lemon. Lighter bank account not withstanding, seems like you have lined things up with a good builder and should have things built better than when it was new.
Keep us posted 👍
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Thank you CHH_Badkarma for the condolences. Had to get this out there...
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GMR just posted a video on your bike. I was thinking of getting a 2019 CVO RGS, but have been a bit worried about the sumping issues. This story is real as I have the seen the video posted by GMR with your bike torn down. Sorry to hear brother, but like others have said, your bike will be much better going forward.
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Sorry to hear this Brooklyn. Keep us posted on your build.
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Denying a warranty claim on a well-known and existing engineering problem due to a tune that had nothing to do with the problem. Nothing like alienating the customers you still have left. Sad.
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I agree with Mark
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I agree with Mark
Yep!
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once steve at gmr performance is done with your bike it will be completely fixed with no issues. not to mention it will be a beast when done.
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once steve at gmr performance is done with your bike it will be completely fixed with no issues. not to mention it will be a beast when done.
And at the bargain price of only $55,000 or so (after sales tax). Thanks, H-D.
(Not blaming GMR)
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This is extremely bad. Will keep alot of us on the bike purchase sidelines. If you do buy one, don't do anything that would effect the warranty.
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Sorry to hear!
BigLew
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Nothing to do with this posting but has everyone heard that the new, rear wheel drive Corvette has a command that will "LOCK" the ECM & BCM if you attempt to change any paramiters in the "Tune". Talked with local service writer today, he said the GM rep had told them off the record this was also coming to the Camaro, Silverado etc. He said, they have already been told that the first time one of the cars is towed in with computer lock-up, they are to stop before any repairs & contact Zone who will handle. This is coming for everything, just wait.
Think its bad loosing warranty on a $40K Harley? Think about a $115K Z06 with a $20K bill for engine replacement due to lifter failure (it happens to them also).
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Nothing to do with this posting but has everyone heard that the new, rear wheel drive Corvette has a command that will "LOCK" the ECM & BCM if you attempt to change any paramiters in the "Tune". Talked with local service writer today, he said the GM rep had told them off the record this was also coming to the Camaro, Silverado etc. He said, they have already been told that the first time one of the cars is towed in with computer lock-up, they are to stop before any repairs & contact Zone who will handle. This is coming for everything, just wait.
Think its bad loosing warranty on a $40K Harley? Think about a $115K Z06 with a $20K bill for engine replacement due to lifter failure (it happens to them also).
But a top of the line Corvette has a top speed of what, 212 mph, and 755 hp. There shouldn't be any reason to alter the tune. On a HD, yes.
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You are not seeing the big picture. First Corvette's, then the Diesel Pick-ups (You have any idea what a Tuning Industry that is alone?). It will gradually be all vehicles. Wouldn't make any difference if HD suddenly had 200HP from the factory, alot of folks would be wanting more.
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But a top of the line Corvette has a top speed of what, 212 mph, and 755 hp. There shouldn't be any reason to alter the tune. On a HD, yes.
Dave and I agree...(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190606/0be374eb3cba22df738099783ddf84d2.jpg)
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That is exactly true. I own a Dodge Demon, 840HP from the factory! It will seriously hurt you if you don't respect it. And other owners are screwing with their Demons trying to achieve over 1000Hp to the rear wheels. Warranty be damned! To much is just enough for folks who like to play in the big leagues. That said, I have a 2017 HD CVO SG which I had built to 117 with a stage 4 tune, but used a stage 3 cam. Runs strong, dead nuts reliable without a lot of drama. From what I have been reading it seems to depend on the luck of the draw when it comes to these bikes. We read about the horror stories but don't hear much from the majority of owners who just ride the thing and have no issues. Go figure.
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That is exactly true. I own a Dodge Demon, 840HP from the factory! It will seriously hurt you if you don't respect it. And other owners are screwing with their Demons trying to achieve over 1000Hp to the rear wheels. Warranty be damned! To much is just enough for folks who like to play in the big leagues. That said, I have a 2017 HD CVO SG which I had built to 117 with a stage 4 tune, but used a stage 3 cam. Runs strong, dead nuts reliable without a lot of drama. From what I have been reading it seems to depend on the luck of the draw when it comes to these bikes. We read about the horror stories but don't hear much from the majority of owners who just ride the thing and have no issues. Go figure.
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15079741/a-brief-message-to-all-dodge-demon-buyers-column/
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https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15079741/a-brief-message-to-all-dodge-demon-buyers-column/
That's funny stuff there. Thanks for the laugh
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Thanks for the article. Ezra is a very good writer...funny stuff
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Have to say that made me laugh! I have never seen a car be so polarizing as the Demon. If Google is your friend you will find countless pieces of prose that demonize (pun intended) the car to no end or the other extreme where fan boys worship ever aspect of the car and have a shrine for its storage facility. To me its just a car. Nothing more, nothing less. Nuts and bolts. Cars come, cars go and life goes on. It is rather fascinating that one can purchase a car like this direct from the show room, put on front skinnies, and realistically run 10's all day long. I have to tell you that to me is just plain cool. Anyway, had the the Viper, built dedicated drag cars that would run high 8's blah blah blah. But to have a Demon, with all its marketing hype, is just fun. And that's what I want in any car I own. Thanks for the link. Funny stuff!
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My daily driver is a diesel Silverado with minor mods pushing 1000 lb ft of torque and for a truck pushing 10k lbs, doing 0-60 under 6 seconds and able to tow 30k lb. Crazy!
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Dave and I agree...(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190606/0be374eb3cba22df738099783ddf84d2.jpg)
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you would actually be surprised how bad the canned factory tunes on most vehicles can be. Though not a Vette, I found this out with my 06 Silverado SS.
Ran pretty darn rich from the factory with a whopping 8 MPG new. CARB Legal headers, Corsa exhaust and GMPP intake with a good dyno tune has me at 14.3 mpg. Every little bit helps in something with the aerodynamics of a brick lol
Granted, lots of folks get wrapped up in chasing HP numbers but there are benefits to tweaking the air fuel mixture.
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Will definitely get back to this thread with the Outcome & Re-Build.
H-D has viewed these threads & videos, requesting GMR take them down, I have copied the videos & will re-post if necessary. Going nowhere soon...
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Another bad luck story about the M8.
I won't be replacing my 15 anytime soon as long as I keep reading about the failures people are having.
I understand that there are most likely many that are not having issues, but to read about the same things happening sense the introduction of the M8 is keeping me away from any salesman.
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Another bad luck story about the M8.
I won't be replacing my 15 anytime soon as long as I keep reading about the failures people are having.
I understand that there are most likely many that are not having issues, but to read about the same things happening sense the introduction of the M8 is keeping me away from any salesman.
Mostly the reason I started this thread...
If I have enlightened at least one person about to make a $50,000+ purchase, Then this has been a success...
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Thanks for posting these videos. You can discuss M8 issues in print ad nauseam, but like a picture, a video is worth a thousand words. Seems there's a multitude of problems with the M8, including quality control.
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I don’t know how this can be referred to as luck anymore.
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Mostly the reason I started this thread...
If I have enlightened at least one person about to make a $50,000+ purchase, Then this has been a success...
I am very happy with my Bike so far, but I appreciate the videos!! The videos are a nice way to keep us all informed and to know what to look for in case of poor workmanship in the assembly of our bikes. Thanks again for posting the videos, truly appreciated :pepper:
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Wow... that’s all I got ???
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Will definitely get back to this thread with the Outcome & Re-Build.
H-D has viewed these threads & videos, requesting GMR take them down, I have copied the videos & will re-post if necessary. Going nowhere soon...
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I have a 2018 CVO Limited. So far haven't had any issues but bike is mostly stock. Guess Ole Mother HD doesn't want these videos getting out..GMR doesn't have to take down either...
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My 2019 CVO SG 700mi on it just sumped. Unreal....
Jeremy 2019 Street Glide CVO Black Forest
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LOL.....
.HARLEY WANTS YOU TO TAKE THEM DOWN🤬🤬🤬. I would bet Indian has them streaming in their stores....just sayin
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My 2019 CVO SG 700mi on it just sumped. Unreal....
Jeremy 2019 Street Glide CVO Black Forest
Was it an 18 or 19 build? Mine is a 19 model but a 10/18 build, it sumped at 6000km.
Hope HD sorts it out for you.
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Was it an 18 or 19 build? Mine is a 19 model but a 10/18 build, it sumped at 6000km.
Hope HD sorts it out for you.
My build date is 8/18.
Jeremy 2019 Street Glide CVO Black Forest
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Does it really matter what the build date is (sincerely)? If Harley didn’t get it fixed before starting the production of the 2019 models what makes us believe they fixed it after the start of the year for those same models?
I bought mine in 2018 so obviously it had a build date of something in 2018. I haven’t had time to ride so I don’t have but 900 miles on her but I can only assume she’s going to sump once I get time to put some miles on.
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Does it really matter what the build date is (sincerely)? If Harley didn’t get it fixed before starting the production of the 2019 models what makes us believe they fixed it after the start of the year for those same models?
I bought mine in 2018 so obviously it had a build date of something in 2018. I haven’t had time to ride so I don’t have but 900 miles on her but I can only assume she’s going to sump once I get time to put some miles on.
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I’m with you. Unless they get off their asses and redesign I highly doubt a fix is a simple part.
Jeremy 2019 Street Glide CVO Black Forest
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Does it really matter what the build date is (sincerely)? If Harley didn’t get it fixed before starting the production of the 2019 models what makes us believe they fixed it after the start of the year for those same models?
I bought mine in 2018 so obviously it had a build date of something in 2018. I haven’t had time to ride so I don’t have but 900 miles on her but I can only assume she’s going to sump once I get time to put some miles on.
they made another change to the oil pump/cover with a seal that is the latest fix... it may not be what will end this sh!t
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Does it really matter what the build date is (sincerely)? If Harley didn’t get it fixed before starting the production of the 2019 models what makes us believe they fixed it after the start of the year for those same models?
I bought mine in 2018 so obviously it had a build date of something in 2018. I haven’t had time to ride so I don’t have but 900 miles on her but I can only assume she’s going to sump once I get time to put some miles on.
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It may or may not sump. I know people who's have sumped. None of my 3 M8 CVO's have summed. I put 21500 miles on the 17, I put 24700 miles on the 18. I now have 11300 miles on the 19.
My 18 started to sump one time out west after riding real hard in the Curves for 117 miles on old AZ 666, I recognized it loosing power so I rode easy for a 10 or 15 minutes and all was good.
So yea, they all can sump. If you recognize it loosing power, just back out for a bit and I do not believe you will damage it.
If I build the motor in this one, I may do an S&S oil pump as it has much better scavenging
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It may or may not sump. I know people who's have sumped. None of my 3 M8 CVO's have summed. I put 21500 miles on the 17, I put 24700 miles on the 18. I now have 11300 miles on the 19.
My 18 started to sump one time out west after riding real hard in the Curves for 117 miles on old AZ 666, I recognized it loosing power so I rode easy for a 10 or 15 minutes and all was good.
So yea, they all can sump. If you recognize it loosing power, just back out for a bit and I do not believe you will damage it.
If I build the motor in this one, I may do an S&S oil pump as it has much better scavenging
I read your post on another thread were you say the exact same thing.
None of your bikes have sumped, and the next line you proceed to talk about your 18 sumping???
I don't think, based upon the videos, that just backing out of it for a bit, is going to save these M8's.
But I am glad you have had at least 2 that have not sumped yet.
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I read your post on another thread were you say the exact same thing.
None of your bikes have sumped, and the next line you proceed to talk about your 18 sumping???
I don't think, based upon the videos, that just backing out of it for a bit, is going to save these M8's.
But I am glad you have had at least 2 that have not sumped yet.
Correct, by the true definition of sumping, the 18 may have not sumped as it did not cause damage. The 18 did appear to start sumping. It lost lots of power, would not accelerate at 70 mph. Rode easy for 10~15 minutes and all was good.
Several who have had more than one bike or motor sump, have all pretty much said, let the bike run easy in a vertical position and it will pull the oil out of the crank case.
I did not stop to do it like they have. I am also very sensitive to how the engine feels, so when it was loosing power I rode very easy. The 18 is the only bike I have ever had that has lost power after 117 mies or so of hard riding.
I believe it was starting to sump, but I may be wrong. Not sure what else would cause it to loose power, and then go back to normal after a little bit.
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LOL.....
.HARLEY WANTS YOU TO TAKE THEM DOWN🤬🤬🤬. I would bet Indian has them streaming in their stores....just sayin
I sincerely hope they do, the more exposure to this issue the better.
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have all pretty much said, let the bike run easy in a vertical position and it will pull the oil out of the crank case.
so when it was loosing power I rode very easy.
This is a MAJOR issue. If we the owners, agree to modify our riding habits to keep an engine from sumping, than we are totally getting screwed. Can you imagine taking your new truck and suddenly driving it slowly to prevent the engine from locking up?
It's just not right.
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This is a MAJOR issue. If we the owners, agree to modify our riding habits to keep an engine from sumping, than we are totally getting screwed. Can you imagine taking your new truck and suddenly driving it slowly to prevent the engine from locking up?
It's just not right.
I agree. It’s the dumbest chit I’ve ever heard of and it happened to me! What other ANYTHING do you buy out there that you have known engine problems and they tell you to sit idle to fix the problem temporarily. Bull-chit! I should be compensated for the amount of resale dollars my bike will drop. Who the hell wants one of these used if so many do this.
Jeremy 2019 Street Glide CVO Black Forest
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I sincerely hope they do, the more exposure to this issue the better.
Those videos are pretty damning, I can see why HD would want them taken down.
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WOW unbelievable! Guess I will not be buying anything new
BigLew
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Is it the Moco/dealer telling everyone to let it idle upright or did someone just figure that out and spread the word?
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The Build Has Begun... While On The Dyno... Then This Happened...
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THIS IS CRAP
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I've not followed any stories on the M8 era transmissions having issues. In the video Steve mentions this being "another" failure though. Transmissions used to be one of the few things that were hard to tear up. Has there been a more regular issue with the current units?
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I've not followed any stories on the M8 era transmissions having issues. In the video Steve mentions this being "another" failure though. Transmissions used to be one of the few things that were hard to tear up. Has there been a more regular issue with the current units?
Oil Migration / Fluid Transfer, Third gear issues with retainers...
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Well Here It Is...
GMR Performance Completed 128 Build & Transmission
Hardly... Harley Davidson !
S&S 128 Kit 11.1 Comp Ratio (zeroed deck)
S&S Premium Lifters
S&S Pushrods Quick install T/C
S&S billet Three Stage Oil Pump
S&S T/C Cam Plate
64 FBW Throttle Body
AIM SDR 2013 + HD Slipper Clutch
High Flow Injector Kit 6.2 GPS
Andrews 550 Cam
High Lift Valve Springs
Rebuilt Crank - Garner Racing Concepts (GRC)
Baker GrudgeBox Transmission (long wait time)
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Original Set-Up Below Before The Engine & Transmission Puked !
In Order To Maintain Original 117 CVO Exhaust Heat Shields
Jackpot Milwaukee-Eight XXX Stainless Steel Head Pipe
FullSac 2.25 CVO Power Cores with Techmat Blanket Kit
Original Tune - 101 HP / 122 TQ
Tune After Build - 132 HP / 147 TQ
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Well Here It Is...
GMR Performance Completed 128 Build & Transmission
Hardly... Harley Davidson !
S&S 128 Kit 11.1 Comp Ratio (zeroed deck)
S&S Premium Lifters
S&S Pushrods Quick install T/C
S&S billet Three Stage Oil Pump
S&S T/C Cam Plate
64 FBW Throttle Body
AIM SDR 2013 + HD Slipper Clutch
High Flow Injector Kit 6.2 GPS
Andrews 550 Cam
High Lift Valve Springs
Rebuilt Crank - Garner Racing Concepts (GRC)
Baker GrudgeBox Transmission (long wait time)
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Original Set-Up Below Before The Engine & Transmission Puked !
In Order To Maintain Original 117 CVO Exhaust Heat Shields
Jackpot Milwaukee-Eight XXX Stainless Steel Head Pipe
FullSac 2.25 CVO Power Cores with Techmat Blanket Kit
Original Tune - 101 HP / 122 TQ
Tune After Build - 132 HP / 147 TQ
I just saw his post in Facebook about it about 30 minutes ago. Very nice.
Sent from my boring Droid phone.
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Well Here It Is...
GMR Performance Completed 128 Build & Transmission
Hardly... Harley Davidson !
S&S 128 Kit 11.1 Comp Ratio (zeroed deck)
S&S Premium Lifters
S&S Pushrods Quick install T/C
S&S billet Three Stage Oil Pump
S&S T/C Cam Plate
64 FBW Throttle Body
AIM SDR 2013 + HD Slipper Clutch
High Flow Injector Kit 6.2 GPS
Andrews 550 Cam
High Lift Valve Springs
Rebuilt Crank - Garner Racing Concepts (GRC)
Baker GrudgeBox Transmission (long wait time)
----------------------------------------------------------------
Original Set-Up Below Before The Engine & Transmission Puked !
In Order To Maintain Original 117 CVO Exhaust Heat Shields
Jackpot Milwaukee-Eight XXX Stainless Steel Head Pipe
FullSac 2.25 CVO Power Cores with Techmat Blanket Kit
Original Tune - 101 HP / 122 TQ
Tune After Build - 132 HP / 147 TQ
Very nice. No head work?
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Condolances, check my post and mines a 2019 with 300 klms on it. The solution appears to be remachining the oil injecters and then fitting s and s pump high volume with new plate but whammo goes any warrenty. As I recently read Harley Davidson a company that sells great T shirts and a motorcycle or two.
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I don't have a dog in the fight. I don't know the OP, his riding style, etc. So I will give him the benefit of the doubt. This is a real known issue but I have many friends that have as many trouble free miles (22 k) as I do and one with far more with zero issues. Everything I have seen points to tuning, riding habits and stage kits for 85% of them. It is very clear and known for years that HD will void the warranty for aftermarket tuners and exhaust headers.
I think HD has screwed over some customers and some customers have pushed the limits knowing they are in a dark gray area.
Always to sides two every story. Glad the OP has the ability to do a 128 setup with the right parts. That should be a sweet setup as my stock 114 is awesome!
Good luck