www.CVOHARLEY.com
CVO Technical => Intake/Exhaust/ECM => Topic started by: +RO@D*R@GE+ on October 02, 2015, 09:58:22 PM
-
I already have the stage one download for my fullsac DX headers air intake and CFR's ...if I switch to a V&H power dual header will the download be good enough for the switch?
-
You might want to define, "good enough."
-
I don't have a TTS, but from what I understand, if there is a problem, you can hook back up to your laptop and flash a new map. I do have Power Dual Headers, and Hi-output slip ons, I used a SERT for tuning and a Dyno run. Cooler, good sound, runs smooth, but this change alone did not add a huge change in performance.
OWL
-
If all you have is the stage one download, there is not much difference in switching the head pipe. BUT I can assure you that with the CFR mufflers you are nowhere close to a good running motor with a canned download. I'd stick with the Fullsac and get a proper tune with a good flash tuner and a competent dyno tuner. You will be amazed at the difference.
-
I'm not sure why you'd change from the Fullsac to the V&H or what you would hope to gain by doing so. You certainly aren't going to gain any performance by simply switching the headpipe, in fact I think most people on this forum think that the Fullsac is a better product. I can't say that with any certainty, I do have the Fullsac DX on my bike but I did go the extra mile and have Steve tune the bike based on the onboard equipment and it's wonderful. Could he have got more or less out of the V&H pipe? I seriously doubt it, there may be a slight change in the curve somewhere but I'd bet there's no way it would be significantly better because I've seen probably a hundred stage one dyno sheets from correctly tuned bikes and they are all within a few ticks of each other.
If you want a real difference, stick with the equipment you have and let a real pro have at it with a dyno, for what you'd spend on that V&H pipe to gain virtually nothing, you can ditch the stage one canned map and get it dialed int throughout the powerband.
Just my 2 cents. I think V&H makes some nice stuff, but I'm not seeing any value in doing what you propose to do. To answer the original question, I think if you just switched the pipes and left it as is, it would run virtually identical to how it does now.
-
I'm not sure why you'd change from the Fullsac to the V&H or what you would hope to gain by doing so. You certainly aren't going to gain any performance by simply switching the headpipe, in fact I think most people on this forum think that the Fullsac is a better product. I can't say that with any certainty, I do have the Fullsac DX on my bike but I did go the extra mile and have Steve tune the bike based on the onboard equipment and it's wonderful. Could he have got more or less out of the V&H pipe? I seriously doubt it, there may be a slight change in the curve somewhere but I'd bet there's no way it would be significantly better because I've seen probably a hundred stage one dyno sheets from correctly tuned bikes and they are all within a few ticks of each other.
If you want a real difference, stick with the equipment you have and let a real pro have at it with a dyno, for what you'd spend on that V&H pipe to gain virtually nothing, you can ditch the stage one canned map and get it dialed int throughout the powerband.
Just my 2 cents. I think V&H makes some nice stuff, but I'm not seeing any value in doing what you propose to do. To answer the original question, I think if you just switched the pipes and left it as is, it would run virtually identical to how it does now.
That was my first thought. :nixweiss:
-
the only benefit that I can see for changing headpipes is for looks. the v&h does look a little nicer, but for the performance vs looks vs cost factor, I can learn to love stock heatshields
-
My bike had V&H pipes on it when I bought it. First thing I did was call Steve and buy a complete Fullsac system. Happy to get rid of the V&H and put the Fullsac on. Could not imagine pulling it off for a V&H setup.
-
good to know....guess I'll stay with the fullsac DX pipe.
I've had no problems
-
So you guys think both pipes would perform the same on a dyno?
-
The same on the dyno..
well I have not used the DX on builds over 113.. so keep that in mind, However a 113 build with our 600 cam head work and t/b Fulsac DX with 2.0 and the V&H power dual with crushers power wise nothing gained nothing lost.. on avg Meaning that I do not look at +/- 1-3 that is close enough. AND trust me when I say you will never feel that gain or loss.
Stock heads comp ratios that vary etc all will effect final out put.. But Fulsac DX 108/119 VH pwr + crusher 109/118 curves are the same.. So looks vs performance .. In the end up to the owner but both work just fine Those where 110 with our 577 cam installed stock heads stock t/b
-
Thanks... GMR I appreciate that you take the time not only talk to us on CVO Forum but, also explain certain difference's.
-
I have done over lay on over lay and in the end you will see that with a proper ex system stock or cammed ( cam that matches engine , comp ratio etc) you will see that there are several choices.. Head pipe ( X systems) and proper mufflers work very well.. 2-1 pipe work as well .. baffle in the 2.5 size ( MAX!!!! no massive steps in baffle) slip on mufflers need 2.0 -2.25 anything large most times makes it hard to tune and you give up power..
The biggest thing I can tell you is find a shop that tunes these systems and listen to them,.. take your pic most correct sets up are going to all be in the same range
Dyno numbers are what they are.. but looking at the curve will tell you what is going on.. Who cares if the number is 1000 hp and 1110 tq or 10 hp and 15 tq the number is just a way to look at it... % of gain is a some what better way as you have a base line and then you have what is tuned..
So lets say a shop has a dyno that is reading high or they are trying to market there ex kit or cam kit with there ex kit etc etc .. Base line is still base line and % of increase is still just that. If the % of increase is just too much well there you have it.. its a piece of info you toss as it is well above the curve and really has no value.
stock 110 tuned with good ex looking at 400 + dynos you will see 94 hp and 109 tq.. This is a avg of those taken over the last 6 years .. Being the 110 really has not changed that can be a base line.
so take that and look for a system that you like the sound and looks of and go from there
Louder does not = more power,
-
GMR..... My CVO 110 was stock with Rinehart Extreme True Duals with 4"Slip ons, SERT, and Tune. 92 hp and 110 tq.
Something let go in that motor.. Harley wouldn't tell me what it was. They just sent me a new motor....
-
Overall peak numbers tend be in the same area.. however the shape of the curve will change.. I feel that finding a shop that tunes in house is very important when doing a build. As they have the hands on knowledge of what the kit will and will not do as well as how it builds power.
As for the engine letting go glad you got a new one.. Odd they will not tell you what happened unless they never looked and just swapped it..
-
Overall peak numbers tend be in the same area.. however the shape of the curve will change.. I feel that finding a shop that tunes in house is very important when doing a build. As they have the hands on knowledge of what the kit will and will not do as well as how it builds power.
As for the engine letting go glad you got a new one.. Odd they will not tell you what happened unless they never looked and just swapped it..
GMR.... Yea, I was 4 months out of warranty when it happened. According to Dealer they opened cam chest found metal, called Moco they said not to touch it. Just crate it and send to us...
-
When using TTS do your O2 sensors stay intact?
-
yes