www.CVOHARLEY.com
CVO Technical => Wheels/Tires/Suspension/Brakes => Topic started by: weamdog on September 14, 2009, 03:26:04 PM
-
Has anybody else tried this tire on an '09 ultra? I've been experiencing a high speed wobble and i think the only thing that hasn't been checked on the bike is this new tire i installed. I noticed it has an 853 max load where as the stock tire has a 937 and the dealer seems to think that the only thing left is a sidewall problem (they have checked everything else on the bike and have even torqued the steering head to the upper limit). At 60mph you can move slightly in the seat and get s short wobble. at 70 it may do it itself and last for a second, at 80 it will do it by itself and won't stop until you slow down. i've noticed that it doesn't do it as much under 70 degrees. at this point it looks like my only choice is to go with the stock dunlop which did cup for me a little bit, but no where near as bad as the front.
mark
-
Has anybody else tried this tire on an '09 ultra? I've been experiencing a high speed wobble and i think the only thing that hasn't been checked on the bike is this new tire i installed. I noticed it has an 853 max load where as the stock tire has a 937 and the dealer seems to think that the only thing left is a sidewall problem (they have checked everything else on the bike and have even torqued the steering head to the upper limit). At 60mph you can move slightly in the seat and get s short wobble. at 70 it may do it itself and last for a second, at 80 it will do it by itself and won't stop until you slow down. i've noticed that it doesn't do it as much under 70 degrees. at this point it looks like my only choice is to go with the stock dunlop which did cup for me a little bit, but no where near as bad as the front.
mark
I wouldn't use anything lower than a 78 weight rating on them bikes! ;)
Hoist! :coolblue:
-
In my mind, your dealer should change the tire and let you see for yourself, if it helps. They should be as concerned as you are and should not spare the cost in sorting things out. If it does not work for you, call H-D service, since a high speed wobble should not occur on a bike with the new touring frame.
Ride safely,
Louis
Has anybody else tried this tire on an '09 ultra? I've been experiencing a high speed wobble and i think the only thing that hasn't been checked on the bike is this new tire i installed. I noticed it has an 853 max load where as the stock tire has a 937 and the dealer seems to think that the only thing left is a sidewall problem (they have checked everything else on the bike and have even torqued the steering head to the upper limit). At 60mph you can move slightly in the seat and get s short wobble. at 70 it may do it itself and last for a second, at 80 it will do it by itself and won't stop until you slow down. i've noticed that it doesn't do it as much under 70 degrees. at this point it looks like my only choice is to go with the stock dunlop which did cup for me a little bit, but no where near as bad as the front.
mark
-
In my mind, your dealer should change the tire and let you see for yourself, if it helps. They should be as concerned as you are and should not spare the cost in sorting things out. If it does not work for you, call H-D service, since a high speed wobble should not occur on a bike with the new touring frame.
Ride safely,
Louis
i was pissed at the dealer where i bought the bike for not replacing the POS tires to begin with so i went to elsewhere to get the metzelers installed. now i'm back at a different (better) dealer and they will replace it, but since i didn't buy the tire there it would come out of my pocket. the other place said they would replace the tire for me, but i'm kinda getting tired of my bike being in the shop all the time and just wanted to get some other thoughts before i have to haul it off to a different place.
-
I wouldn't use anything lower than a 78 weight rating on them bikes! ;)
Hoist! :coolblue:
I think i'm with you here, just don't have anything to back it up yet. even though they are rated at 853lbs i'm thinking that at speed with wind drag on a bike weighing over 900lbs wet with a 180lb rider that most of the weight is going to be on that rear tire.
Anyways, just wanted to start a thread so that others will be aware that there may be a problem with one of the two alternative tires for this wheel (the other being a 180). Next week when i put a stock tire back on I will update the thread confirming whether or not this tire should not be used on this bike.
-
what 17" wheel r u using for that tire??
-
what 17" wheel r u using for that tire??
i'm using the stock wheel.
-
i'm using the stock wheel.
Stock rim on the 09 is a 16" :confused5:
Stock Tire is a 180/65B16 81H
-
:nixweiss: :nixweiss:
Must be a weight issue regareding the sidewalls. Were the Metzler's replacements for a lighter sport bike???
Other than sidewall strength, radials should be as stalble as the Gold Wing has used radials for years.
:confused5: :confused5:
:coolblue: :coolblue:
-
Stock rim on the 09 is a 16" :confused5:
Stock Tire is a 180/65B16 81H
i stand corrected. was thinking front :( :oops:
that changes everything because that tire is weighted higher than the stock tire, hmmmm.
-
:'( :'( :'(
Doesn't seem to make sense.
Might call Metzler. It's possible it is merely a bad tire.
Even the expensive Michelin PS2's for the high end sports cars are bad out of the box.
:nixweiss: :nixweiss:
-
I'm confused. Did the bike have this problem before installing the Metzler? If the answer is no, then the solution should be fairly obvious.
BTW, any tire that doesn't at least meet the same load rating as the stock rubber shouldn't be considered a good alternative. Eliminate the designed in safety margins at your own risk.
Jerry
-
??? ???
I checked on Metzler's web page. The only thing they make a comment about is the tires should have at least 48 lbs front and rear to be stable.
Lower pressures can cause wobble and instability. I ran Metzler's on my 07 and ran 50psi to get the best ride.
http://www.us.metzelermoto.com/web/products/tire_pressures/default.page
The weight of the bike should not be the issue.
:coolblue: :coolblue:
-
??? ???
I checked on Metzler's web page. The only thing they make a comment about is the tires should have at least 48 lbs front and rear to be stable.
Lower pressures can cause wobble and instability. I ran Metzler's on my 07 and ran 50psi to get the best ride.
http://www.us.metzelermoto.com/web/products/tire_pressures/default.page
The weight of the bike should not be the issue.
:coolblue: :coolblue:
The tire is currently at 45lbs solo with no tour pack and still doing it. I believe the side of the tire says 42lbs.
-
I'm confused. Did the bike have this problem before installing the Metzler? If the answer is no, then the solution should be fairly obvious.
BTW, any tire that doesn't at least meet the same load rating as the stock rubber shouldn't be considered a good alternative. Eliminate the designed in safety margins at your own risk.
Jerry
I misread the load rating when i was looking at the 17". The 16" is actually rated high than the stock dunlop. The problem i'm having is i had to ride across the country on severely cupped tires in order to try to get my dealer to replace them (didn't have any luck on the road). The front tire was so bad that it probably had something to do with my radio dying (had to replace it). I limped across the country at a speed lower then what i'm noticing this wobble so i have no idea if this just started happening since the new tires were installed or if i was just going to slow to notice and the bouncing messed something else up. Harley has gone over the entire bike so the only thing that could be left is the tires. It's just frustrating since i had the tires installed elsewhere.
-
:-\ :-\
Although I am no expert on tires, I would ask one more thing about the wobble. Does the rim width for the HD rear match the spec for the wider Metzler radial. It might be that the rim width of the stock HD is not wide enough. On car and truck tires it is a common mistake to mount a large and wider tire on a narrower rim. The tire is thus unstable.
Just a thought.
:nervous: :nervous:
-
:-\ :-\
Although I am no expert on tires, I would ask one more thing about the wobble. Does the rim width for the HD rear match the spec for the wider Metzler radial. It might be that the rim width of the stock HD is not wide enough. On car and truck tires it is a common mistake to mount a large and wider tire on a narrower rim. The tire is thus unstable.
Just a thought.
:nervous: :nervous:
i was thinking that also, but figured they knew what they were doing. the owner said he put a 200 on his '09. you can just barely fit a pubic hair in there, it's really tight.
-
Weamdog,
Just a thought though it sounds like you've checked: I ran a 160 Metzler on my 2004 RG with 18" Renegade rims. Had the high speed wobble (65 mph plus) for quite some time running 40 - 42 lbs air. HD and tire dealers could not figure out the problem. Finally it occurred to me to recheck the sidewall of the tire and saw the max psi was 50 lbs. Pumped up the tire to 50lbs. That fixed the problem.
-
these sidewalls must be really soft if everybody is having to run the max pressure in them. i will bump it up a few lbs just to see how it reacts.
-
Interesting to read. I had some issues on the '07 SERK with to low pressure in the front tire, but never on an Ultra. Let us know, if you see an improvement.
Ride safely,
Louis
-
:( :( :( :( :(
OK, gentleman, the standard HD rim is 5.00" wide and the minimum width for the Metzler 200/16 R is 5.5" up to 6.25". THIS IS ON PAGE 13 OF THE CUSTOM FITMENT GUIDE FROM METZLER. COULD'NT GET THE LINK TO PASTE BUT YOU CAN FIND IT.
GO TO HERE AND DOWNLOAD THE UPGRADE BROCHURE. IT IS NOT A LOAD ISSUE. THE TIRE IS NOT DESIGNED TO WORK ON THE NARROWER RIM. THIS MEANS THAT A LARGER THAN DESIGNED PART OF THE TIRE IS OUTSIDE THE WIDTH OF THE RIM AND THUS WILL BE UNSTABLE. WITH A NARROWR THAN EXPECTED RIM THE TIRE WILL FLEX AN EXCESSIVE AMOUNT.,
http://www.us.metzelermoto.com/web/products/product_literature/default.page
HERE IS THE SPEC FOR THE HD RIM FROM DUNLOP
http://www.dunlopmotorcycle.com/fitmentguide.asp
:soapbox: :soapbox: :soapbox:
you need to get a larger rim or new tires.
That sucks.
:coolblue: :coolblue:
That I assure is the problem.
-
>:( >:(
Metzler tech support agrees.
Bad news.
Sorry to be the bearer of such crappy news.
:coolblue:
-
8) 8) 8)
One mre point, the correct tire pressure is 40 to 42 for the radial 200/16's.
:coolblue:
-
:( :( :( :( :(
OK, gentleman, the standard HD rim is 5.00" wide and the minimum width for the Metzler 200/16 R is 5.5" up to 6.25". THIS IS ON PAGE 13 OF THE CUSTOM FITMENT GUIDE FROM METZLER. COULD'NT GET THE LINK TO PASTE BUT YOU CAN FIND IT.
GO TO HERE AND DOWNLOAD THE UPGRADE BROCHURE. IT IS NOT A LOAD ISSUE. THE TIRE IS NOT DESIGNED TO WORK ON THE NARROWER RIM. THIS MEANS THAT A LARGER THAN DESIGNED PART OF THE TIRE IS OUTSIDE THE WIDTH OF THE RIM AND THUS WILL BE UNSTABLE. WITH A NARROWR THAN EXPECTED RIM THE TIRE WILL FLEX AN EXCESSIVE AMOUNT.,
http://www.us.metzelermoto.com/web/products/product_literature/default.page
HERE IS THE SPEC FOR THE HD RIM FROM DUNLOP
http://www.dunlopmotorcycle.com/fitmentguide.asp
:soapbox: :soapbox: :soapbox:
you need to get a larger rim or new tires.
That sucks.
:coolblue: :coolblue:
That I assure is the problem.
Believe me, this is not crappy news and I appreciate all the digging you did. I don't believe i will have any problems getting this place to exchange the tire for me, after all i went in there wanting the 180 to begin with and they told me i could fit a 200 under there. Since their store is 25% wheels and tires i naturally trusted them.
Thanks again.
Mark
-
:bananarock: :bananarock: :bananarock:
Any time. Having ridden sport bikes and a few Jap cruisers with radials. I like the ride and handling. I was hoping there was something else wrong so I could switch myself.
Oh well, the best laid plans of mice and men.
Guess we will have to stay with Dunlops for a while.
Hope it works out.
Ride often, ride safe and keep the wheels down.
:coolblue: :coolblue:
-
:bananarock: :bananarock: :bananarock:
Any time. Having ridden sport bikes and a few Jap cruisers with radials. I like the ride and handling. I was hoping there was something else wrong so I could switch myself.
Oh well, the best laid plans of mice and men.
Guess we will have to stay with Dunlops for a while.
Hope it works out.
Ride often, ride safe and keep the wheels down.
:coolblue: :coolblue:
well there is the 180 metzeler, it is load rated 109lbs less than the dunlop and is 2/3" taller. I don't think i'm willing to sacrifice both. These bikes already have me on my tippy toes with the stock seat at intersections. I was able to get 17k out of my original tire which is excellent compared to the 8k i get with my 402's on the other bike.
Reading into the front tire now it looks like I may have the same issue since I think (not sure) i'm running the 150/80R17. I'd hate to be a guinea pig with the new 408F front tire, but it seems they have us over the water fall in a barrel here :(
-
>:( >:(
The same problem is with front tire. The standard HD rim is 3" and Metezeler calls for 3.5" minimum.
Looks like another tire is needed.
You were right on the tire pressure. The bias Metezeler's require a much higher tire pressure in the metric sizes.
Let me know how it turns out.
I will get about 14000 out of my Dunlops and never got 7000 on metezelers.
Ride safe
:coolblue:
-
Well the place that sold me the metzelers said they called metzeler today and was told they had never heard of the problem i described. Of course this was before i told them the wheel was too narrow for the tire. Sounds like they may try to fight over the replacement. So at this point i'm going back to dunlop on both tires since having one of each might not be a good idea. BTW, also just noticed that they installed a bias up front and the rear was radial which i probably another no no. At first they couldn't get a hold of a 407F so i told them to install it backwards, but after a little research i discovered this not to be a wise choice since this is just not an "arrow" change on the tire. I called them up instructing them to scratch that idea while i look for a 408F and they had already found one for me. So tomorrow i'm hoping to have a bike that handles the way it should. Then i can concentrate on installing my new 7.25" fairing speakers (queue tim "the toolman" taylor here) :)
-
:soapbox: :soapbox:
Bad news.
Metezeler, the company, said no joy on the narrower rims. They said the tires would be unstable period.
Good luck.
7.25" speakers. That's got to be a challenge.
Let me know.
:coolblue: :coolblue:
-
Okay, the jury is back and the problem with the wobble was the tires. I went back to the Dunlop and she is as straight as an arrow again :2vrolijk_21: part of the problem was the 200 on a 5" wheel, not sure if being a radial had anything to do with it, but i'm done experimenting with metzeler for a while. lets ride!
-
:bananarock: :apple: :carrot: :jalapeno:
Ride safe and ride often.
Getting to be the good times in South Texas. Weather in the high 80's and low's in the 60's.
:coolblue: