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CVO Technical => Drive Train => Topic started by: jimp on September 28, 2009, 07:34:02 PM

Title: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: jimp on September 28, 2009, 07:34:02 PM: I complained about the noise at the 1K service and I was told it was a normal sound, well it sure is if the primary is not aligned. Now I guess they will need to repair a much larger problem.
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: moscooter on September 28, 2009, 07:44:46 PM: :cherry:
I would not be happy either. I assume you have noted other entries here or on other forums for HD that mention the potential (side loading) of the primary chain due to the newest design of the compensator as compared the (older) style. Might not be what caused your problem, but it could be related. :nixweiss:
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: jimp on September 28, 2009, 07:50:01 PM: Sad part is, I took it to a Independent shop to find out what the noise was.
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: NVWLDTHG on September 28, 2009, 08:23:58 PM: Quote from: jimp on September 28, 2009, 07:50:01 PM
Sad part is, I took it to a Independent shop to find out what the noise was.
Ouch!
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: happyman on September 29, 2009, 08:44:33 PM: Quote from: jimp on September 28, 2009, 07:34:02 PM
I complained about the noise at the 1K service and I was told it was a normal sound, well it sure is if the primary is not aligned. Now I guess they will need to repair a much larger problem.

curious what kind of a noise it makes?

thanks Happy
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: mjb765 on September 29, 2009, 08:46:29 PM: Is there any required maint to the primary other than changing the oil at the 1K service?
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: grc on September 29, 2009, 09:00:19 PM: Quote from: mjb765 on September 29, 2009, 08:46:29 PM
Is there any required maint to the primary other than changing the oil at the 1K service?

No. There is no inspection cover any more, since H-D went to the auto tensioner, so you can't even inspect it without removing the outer primary cover. The only maintenance is fluid changes.

Jerry
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: mjb765 on September 29, 2009, 09:41:43 PM: I knew there was no cover, so I figured there was no maint.....just making sure I wasn't missing anything
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: jimp on October 06, 2009, 08:26:41 PM: Quote from: happyman on September 29, 2009, 08:44:33 PM
curious what kind of a noise it makes?

thanks Happy

A very bad one, like marbles getting crushed.
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: moscooter on October 07, 2009, 08:23:32 PM: :cherry:
Again, not necessarily what your problem cause was.......but the newer primary chain tensioner is "suspect" too.

As I understand it, it does (not) free-float with it's applied tension on the chain as ......spring loaded and other tensioners might. It has a "ratchet" set of teeth that catches the tensioner at its tightest point.

So, as a result, a condition could be that as the engine and all its parts warm/heat up, the chain gets longer and the tensioner takes up "all" that slack via the ratchet teeth........then when its cold again, that damn chain is tighter than a bow string. :nixweiss:
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: skreminegul07 on October 26, 2009, 09:05:51 AM: I was just talked out of upgrading two older bikes to the auto tensioner because my contact at the dealer said they are seeing these chains too tight as a result of getting on it and the chain tightens up on the slack side.
Sounds plausible, we need Myth Busters.
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: grc on October 26, 2009, 09:13:45 AM: If you want an auto tensioner without the H-D version issues, go with the old original standby, Hayden M6. No ratchet, strictly spring loaded. Or even go with the hydraulic version if you can still find them, looks just like the Hayden but with a self contained hydraulic pump that uses the primary oil to take up the slack like a valve lifter.

Jerry
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: hd-dude on October 28, 2009, 12:39:52 AM: The HD auto tensioner has a slight bit of give and take. As the chain get loose (to much take) the tensioner will "ratchet" up to the next tooth to take up slack. The problem is that it can "ratchet" up too much causing the chain to be too tight. Too tight of a chain can cause bearing failure in the clutch hub and main shaft bearing and difficulty shifting.

Loading and unloading the drive train in the manner above is NOT a good idea unless you want to shift your flywheels.

The 07+ primaries unfortunaltly cannot use the Hayden M6 or the still availible HB125 hydro tensioner as they do not have the mounting bosses inside the inner primary for them.
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: Rooster on October 28, 2009, 01:14:23 AM: When you hear of a fix for this let us know. The new SE comp assembly made the bike seem about 5mph higher geared. I'm confused but thinking maybe the 49t gear behind the clutch but kind of spendy from EVO Ind.
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: tattoo on October 28, 2009, 06:41:07 AM: I hear complaints all the time about primary noise on the 07 & up models. In my opinion the chain does run to tight. :oops:
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: Fireguy on October 28, 2009, 09:31:17 AM: The info I recieved worked and it's nothing that would not happen it if you had to hit the brakes hard without pulling in the clutch. My intent is not to give bad info but I will remove that post and keep it to myself. Sorry.
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: moscooter on October 28, 2009, 12:22:52 PM: :P
HD Dude...."The 07+ primaries unfortunaltly cannot use the Hayden M6 or the still availible HB125 hydro tensioner as they do not have the mounting bosses inside the inner primary for them."

I think they now have a later version of the HB125 as I just received one of them for my 09 SE Ultra. Have not installed it yet. I'll try to add the website in a follow-up post here.
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: moscooter on October 28, 2009, 12:30:19 PM: :cherry:
OK, Here is their website...........check it out.

http://www.sohotbikes.com/wedge.html
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: hd-dude on October 28, 2009, 02:14:39 PM: Quote from: moscooter on October 28, 2009, 12:30:19 PM
:cherry:
OK, Here is their website...........check it out.

http://www.sohotbikes.com/wedge.html

Thanks, I did not see that last time I looked (I have to admit its been a while :oops:)
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: skreminegul07 on October 29, 2009, 04:37:55 PM: Quote from: moscooter on October 28, 2009, 12:30:19 PM
:cherry:
OK, Here is their website...........check it out.

http://www.sohotbikes.com/wedge.html

Nice. I may go that route for both of mine. Looks just like the HD unit except for the "wedge"

Thanks
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: happyman on October 29, 2009, 07:13:43 PM: Quote from: jimp on September 28, 2009, 07:34:02 PM
I complained about the noise at the 1K service and I was told it was a normal sound, well it sure is if the primary is not aligned. Now I guess they will need to repair a much larger problem.

how many people have contacted HS on this????/
i know my 2010 Ltd is pretty scarey, with the slap of the primary chain very adible at dead stop take offs.. my 07 i think i heard it make a slight noise, at best a handful of times it 20000 miles. and i run that thing pretty good with the 113 motor i did up for it. there is ahuge differance betwee the 07 and the 2010 bike in the loudness and frequency of the noise. needless to say i guess i better call HD ccustomer service to see if they are having issues or if they would care to admit it.
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: Hoist! on October 30, 2009, 01:27:37 AM: Quote from: hd-dude on October 28, 2009, 02:14:39 PM
Thanks, I did not see that last time I looked (I have to admit its been a while :oops:)

Jim, if you get ahold of one, let us know what you think of that new hydraulic wedge unit. it sounds promising. Thanks! :2vrolijk_21:

Hoist! :coolblue:
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: happyman on October 30, 2009, 08:47:11 AM: Quote from: Hoist! on October 30, 2009, 01:27:37 AM
Jim, if you get ahold of one, let us know what you think of that new hydraulic wedge unit. it sounds promising. Thanks! :2vrolijk_21:

Hoist! :coolblue:

anyone called HD customer service and asked them if indeed there is a problem.. That they will admit?? its obvious there is something going on.
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: Hoist! on October 30, 2009, 10:12:45 AM: Quote from: happyman on October 30, 2009, 08:47:11 AM

anyone called HD customer service and asked them if indeed there is a problem.. That they will admit?? its obvious there is something going on.

HeHe!!! With a few hundred thou out there with these things on em, you really think they'll ever own up to any problems with it? ::) ::) ::)

Hoist! :coolblue:
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: happyman on October 30, 2009, 11:07:12 AM: Quote from: Hoist! on October 30, 2009, 10:12:45 AM
HeHe!!! With a few hundred thou out there with these things on em, you really think they'll ever own up to any problems with it? ::) ::) ::)

Hoist! :coolblue:

enojugh people raise hell i guarentee they wil pay attention. especially if a chain locks up or bearing seizes, and puts someone down.
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: Wanna ride on October 30, 2009, 11:25:42 AM: Quote from: happyman on October 30, 2009, 11:07:12 AM
enojugh people raise hell i guarentee they wil pay attention. especially if a chain locks up or bearing seizes, and puts someone down.
Down side of that is, it's a reactive response instead of a proactive one.
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: happyman on October 30, 2009, 12:53:55 PM: Quote from: Wanna ride on October 30, 2009, 11:25:42 AM
Down side of that is, it's a reactive response instead of a proactive one.

well if the response is or reporting of an issue that warrants a serious discussion with Harley because of a lot of racket, that many would feel is not normal for those of us that have been riding for 50 years, like 15 or 20 harleys later they may listen. if ya don't say anything you a fool.
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: MKW on October 30, 2009, 03:59:06 PM: Ford didn't want to admit that one of their cars caught fire in a rear end collision ......................... just saying, not comparing ???
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: happyman on October 30, 2009, 05:32:31 PM: Quote from: MKW on October 30, 2009, 03:59:06 PM
Ford didn't want to admit that one of their cars caught fire in a rear end collision ......................... just saying, not comparing ???
[/quote

well this is not about Fords!! thats how HD finds out they actuallly have an uthat needs attention. They are more than likely aware of it for some time now andn may be tryinjg to come up with a fix..
the primary is serious businness if one would happen to cause a wheel to lock up or what ever else can happen.. plus they may want you to buy a new harley one day also.
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: Hoist! on October 30, 2009, 05:33:35 PM: I think somebody drank the Kool-aid!!! :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss: ;D ;)

Hoist! :coolblue:
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: happyman on October 30, 2009, 05:34:56 PM: Quote from: Hoist! on October 30, 2009, 05:33:35 PM
I think somebody drank the Kool-aid!!! :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss: ;D ;)

Hoist! :coolblue:

i think somebodhy lost the abilty to think
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: Hoist! on October 30, 2009, 05:41:50 PM: Quote from: happyman on October 30, 2009, 05:34:56 PM
i think somebodhy lost the abilty to think

Ouch! I guess the comedy routine's over now! :P ;D ;D ;D ;)

Hoist! :coolblue:
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: happyman on October 30, 2009, 05:43:55 PM: Quote from: Hoist! on October 30, 2009, 05:41:50 PM
Ouch! I guess the comedy routine's over now! :P ;D ;D ;D ;)

Hoist! :coolblue:

hey do what ever makes ya happy..
get some more COOL AID and guzzle it down
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: Hoist! on October 30, 2009, 05:47:30 PM: Quote from: happyman on October 30, 2009, 05:43:55 PM
hey do what ever makes ya happy..
get some more COOL AID and guzzle it down

HeHe!!! I guess the comedy routine's not over! You're a funny guy! :P ;D ;D ;D ;)

Hoist! :coolblue:
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: Twolanerider on October 30, 2009, 05:49:49 PM: Quote from: Hoist! on October 30, 2009, 05:47:30 PM
HeHe!!! I guess the comedy routine's not over! You're a funny guy! :P ;D ;D ;D ;)

Hoist! :coolblue:

Dammit, I can't tell. Did you piss someone off or not :huepfenlol2: ?
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: happyman on October 30, 2009, 05:52:22 PM: Quote from: Hoist! on October 30, 2009, 05:47:30 PM
HeHe!!! I guess the comedy routine's not over! You're a funny guy! :P ;D ;D ;D ;)

Hoist! :coolblue:

if ya smoke the right stuff you wil laff at anything, even at a funeral!!
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: Hoist! on October 30, 2009, 05:57:46 PM: Quote from: happyman on October 30, 2009, 05:52:22 PM
if ya smoke the right stuff you wil laff at anything, even at a funeral!!

Hmmm.....you don't seem very happy for a guy with a name like "happy"man, ! Maybe bitterman is a better screen name for ya! :nixweiss: ::) ;D ;D ;D ;)

Over and out!

Hoist! :coolblue:
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: happyman on October 30, 2009, 06:22:53 PM: Quote from: Hoist! on October 30, 2009, 05:57:46 PM
Hmmm.....you don't seem very happy for a guy with a name like "happy"man, ! Maybe bitterman is a better screen name for ya! :nixweiss: ::) ;D ;D ;D ;)

Over and out!

Hoist! :coolblue:

haaaaa i am havin fun here aren't you????????????? think you may be confused in your old age??
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: Twolanerider on October 30, 2009, 06:27:31 PM: Quote from: Hoist! on October 30, 2009, 05:57:46 PM

bitterman

Oh great, you just had to go and call him names. Now I'm stuck with an old Roger Miller tune in my head and it's all your freaking fault!

God didn't make little green apples...

bah bah bah bah :huepfenlol2:
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: Hoist! on October 30, 2009, 06:48:51 PM: Quote from: Twolanerider on October 30, 2009, 06:27:31 PM

Oh great, you just had to go and call him names. Now I'm stuck with an old Roger Miller tune in my head and it's all your freaking fault!

God didn't make little green apples...

bah bah bah bah :huepfenlol2:

Then who did? :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss: ::) :D :D :D ;)

Hoist! :coolblue:
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: Twolanerider on October 30, 2009, 06:51:05 PM: Quote from: Hoist! on October 30, 2009, 06:48:51 PM
Then who did? :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss: ::) :D :D :D ;)

Hoist! :coolblue:

Neal!! :2vrolijk_21: :huepfenlol2: :drink:
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: Hoist! on October 30, 2009, 06:51:56 PM: Quote from: Twolanerider on October 30, 2009, 06:51:05 PM
Neal!! :2vrolijk_21: :huepfenlol2: :drink:

SPEEEEEEW!!!! BWAAAHAAAAHAAAA!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Hoist! :coolblue:
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: happyman on October 30, 2009, 07:17:34 PM: Quote from: Hoist! on October 30, 2009, 06:48:51 PM
Then who did? :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss: ::) :D :D :D ;)

Hoist! :coolblue:

Donald Duck!!
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: CVOjunkie on November 27, 2009, 09:29:13 AM: This is kind of funny a few years ago I put in the auto tensioner in my seeg and after harley put in two transmissions and my warranty was out I went to baker and told them what I had done to the bike and the problem and they told me to throw the auto tensioner away because I ride hard the tensioner would ratchet tighter and put a side load on the motor and tranny all the time when they told me this i looked at both old transmissions and found the same problem as what they said I would find the output shaft is in two pieces and has a needle bearing there it chewed this bearing up and then resulted in other failures so my advice is if possible throw that auto tensioner as far as possible. since then baker tranny installed 35000 miles and not a problem and of coarse the old harley tensioner .
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: Rooster on November 27, 2009, 11:58:42 AM: Quote from: CVOjunkie on November 27, 2009, 09:29:13 AM
This is kind of funny a few years ago I put in the auto tensioner in my seeg and after harley put in two transmissions and my warranty was out I went to baker and told them what I had done to the bike and the problem and they told me to throw the auto tensioner away because I ride hard the tensioner would ratchet tighter and put a side load on the motor and tranny all the time when they told me this i looked at both old transmissions and found the same problem as what they said I would find the output shaft is in two pieces and has a needle bearing there it chewed this bearing up and then resulted in other failures so my advice is if possible throw that auto tensioner as far as possible. since then baker tranny installed 35000 miles and not a problem and of coarse the old harley tensioner .
Does this apply to 07 or newer? I didn't think you could use the old style in 07 or newer
Title: Re: 1100 Miles and Primary Chain Is Wiped Out
Post by: moscooter on November 27, 2009, 01:29:14 PM: :nixweiss:
"This is kind of funny a few years ago I put in the auto tensioner in my seeg and after harley put in two transmissions and my warranty was out I went to baker and told them what I had done to the bike and the problem and they told me to throw the auto tensioner away because I ride hard the tensioner would ratchet tighter and put a side load on the motor and tranny"

::) By saying the (tensioner would ratchet tighter), it suggests to me that he means the (Harley) tensioner versus their original one. Because, I don't thing the M6 nor the hydraulic ones have any "ratcheting" going on as they function. :P