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CVO Technical => Drive Train => Topic started by: jagerbomb on November 16, 2010, 10:18:11 PM
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I traded in a 2009 SG on my 2011 SESG. I immediately noticed that the gearing feels higher. My best bud has a 2009 SG and last weekend we were comparing tach readings at 80mph. I had 2900 showing he was around 3100. I pulled out my books and they appear to show both bikes have the same gearing in the trans, the primaries, and the final drive. Whats your observation? I'm contemplating during the 30 tooth final drive output gear and the belt.
Update: I was at bike week in Daytona and managed to rack up 1400 miles during the week. Got along side my buddy again and now they are identical on RPM. We could only figure maybe he was in 5th gear last time? With all the research I did it didn't make sense that it should be different. Overall super happy with the way she performs
Mark
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I can only compare my '11 to my '07 and the '07 is way, way tall. For me the '11 is just right. :2vrolijk_21:
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Assuming both bikes are stock, the primary and trans ratio's are definitely the same. As far as I know, the final drive ratio's (trans to rear wheel) are also the same, but that's an easy one to verify, just count the "teeth" on the rear sprocket. The other part of the equation that hasn't been mentioned is the tire. Are both bikes running the same outer diameter tire size? You can't go by the tire size designation, you'll need to check the O.D. specification for each tire or actually measure them.
If all of the above are equal, then I'd say the tach's or speedo's are off. Easy enough to calculate speed versus rpm once you have the tire O.D. and overall gear ratio information.
Jerry
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I traded in a 2009 SG on my 2011 SESG. I immediately noticed that the gearing feels higher. My best bud has a 2009 SG and last weekend we were comparing tach readings at 80mph. I had 2900 showing he was around 3100. I pulled out my books and they appear to show both bikes have the same gearing in the trans, the primaries, and the final drive. Whats your observation? I'm contemplating during the 30 tooth final drive output gear and the belt.
The gearing is the same from 09-2011. 2.87 final drive. The 30T will drop it to 3.06. The gearing chart says 2994 RPM at 75 mph with the 3.06
Stock speedos are 6% fast with a new tire. I see this everyday on the dyno. As the tire wears they get even faster. I run the 3.06 on my 107.
I very cautiously went to the 31 and then the 30T. Amazing improvement everywhere. Another benefit for me, quieter exhaust at 75-80.
The motor is laboring as much and makes less noise with less throttle required to maintain speed. The girlfriend thought I was testing new mufflers
and commented on how quiet they were. Less vibration too. Its truly one of those overlooked and underated mods. Stock 6 speed are over geared.
Steve George
Fullsac Performance
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@Steve:
please explain further.
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The gearing is the same from 09-2011. 2.87 final drive. The 30T will drop it to 3.06. The gearing chart says 2994 RPM at 75 mph with the 3.06
Stock speedos are 6% fast with a new tire. I see this everyday on the dyno. As the tire wears they get even faster. I run the 3.06 on my 107.
I very cautiously went to the 31 and then the 30T. Amazing improvement everywhere. Another benefit for me, quieter exhaust at 75-80.
The motor is laboring as much and makes less noise with less throttle required to maintain speed. The girlfriend thought I was testing new mufflers
and commented on how quiet they were. Less vibration too. Its truly one of those overlooked and underated mods. Stock 6 speed are over geared.
Steve George
Fullsac Performance
So....does the 30 tooth also bring the speedo more in line with actual speed as well?
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So....does the 30 tooth also bring the speedo more in line with actual speed as well?
Lower gears make it read even faster. Easily corrected with TTS.
SG
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Everything sounds very positive to change the gearing for performance. But, my question is how does dropping to a 30t or a 31t effect gas mileage ? Anyone have any real life gas mileage figures ? I ride with a group that loves to pound out the miles and would appreciate the extra performance punch, but dropping in gas mileage is a concern. Thanks
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dropping from 31T to 30T lowers RPMs??? lower RPMs?? less fuel?? or vise versa.
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It raises the rpm by going to 30T
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I understand that dropping from a 32t (stock front pully) to a 31t or 30t raises RPM.
What I'm interested in how does this change effect highway gas mileage since your reving the motor more.
I'm interested in making the change for added performance, but I'm hoping the change doesnt' mean a significant drop in fuel mileage.
Thanks
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I understand that dropping from a 32t (stock front pully) to a 31t or 30t raises RPM.
What I'm interested in how does this change effect highway gas mileage since your reving the motor more.
I'm interested in making the change for added performance, but I'm hoping the change doesnt' mean a significant drop in fuel mileage.
Thanks
Most situations your milage will improve or stay the same. Bogging the engine sucks gas. Twisting the throttle open at 70 mph/2600 rpm to
pull a hill will raise the MAP past 80 KPA pretty easy and into open loop where they run considerably richer to support the load.
The lower 3.06 gear will see 3000 RPM at 75 MPH GPS. These engine make peak TQ right in the 3000-3400 range. If your running heavy,
that's right were you need to be to pull hills and push head winds.
Steve George
Fullsac Performance
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So would i be correct to think the 30T will reduce top speed ?
What about 0-60 ?
Just a question not bothered about top anyway doubt i will ever try to find it but interested to the effect it would have.
I agree 6th is like overdrive. IMO
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So would i be correct to think the 30T will reduce top speed ?
What about 0-60 ?
Just a question not bothered about top anyway doubt i will ever try to find it but interested to the effect it would have.
I agree 6th is like overdrive. IMO
Stock bikes are so over geared they go fastest in 4th gear. The 3.06 might allow 5th to become the fastest.
6th gear? No way. So to really answer your question, no they do not loose top speed, they gain it.
SG
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What about a built engine. I have the tq to run in 6th, but I have been wondering if I should drop a tooth on my SESG with my build.
I have always dropped a tooth in front on my sport bikes just for the performance aspect. Can you adjust the speedo with the SERT or do you need a speedo healer?
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What about a built engine. I have the tq to run in 6th, but I have been wondering if I should drop a tooth on my SESG with my build.
I have always dropped a tooth in front on my sport bikes just for the performance aspect. Can you adjust the speedo with the SERT or do you need a speedo healer?
My 107 makes 104HP and 114TQ. Peak TQ is still between 3000-3500 RPM. The 30T (3.06) was a big improvement.
Your speedo is adjustable with TTS. Other options?
SG
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Good point. Mine has a mid range cam and peak tq is between 3500 and 4500. Wouldn't be an easier swap to add to the rear or is that not an option? I know when I swapped out front sprokets on my ZX-10R and ZX-14, the front sproket was easy to get to. Not so much on the Harley.
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Lower gears make it read even faster. Easily corrected with TTS.
SG
Steve...
can you delve a little deeper into this?... I'm close to FINALLY getting the scoot back (long story)
I'd like to load the map and make the corrections at the same time....
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Steve, after you address his question could you explain the changes a Baker DD7 would have relative to drive,mpgs etc.
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Steve...
can you delve a little deeper into this?... I'm close to FINALLY getting the scoot back (long story)
I'd like to load the map and make the corrections at the same time....
Look up the speedo Calculator in your TTS manual. You find the gearing section and change the front sprocket from 32 to 30.
The manual can explain it way better than I can from memory. If you get in the VSS and poke around its easy to figure out.
SG
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Steve, after you address his question could you explain the changes a Baker DD7 would have relative to drive,mpgs etc.
I have zero experience with bakers 7 speed. My first question would be why? Even a 125 two stoke with a lightswitch powerband
only needs a 6 speed. Final drive is final drive regardless of how many gears it has. If your looking for efficiency and milage, you have
to spend your time in a 1 to 1 gear ratio not bogging the engine out of closed loop into the richer section of the fuel map.
SG
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Look up the speedo Calculator in your TTS manual. You find the gearing section and change the front sprocket from 32 to 30.
The manual can explain it way better than I can from memory. If you get in the VSS and poke around its easy to figure out.
SG
I kind of recall that... the last time I was in the program I was browsing through all the fubctions.. thanks...
when in doubt... press help!
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Got the bike out today with the new 30t pulley. 6th gear is a lot more usable. The speedo is off about 10 percent and I dont have a tts.
Anyone know of a box I can hookup so I can adjust the speedo.
The motor no runs its powerband.
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Let me ask, I have just traded my 08 SG for a 2011. will I notice a change in gearing and handleing? I have not been on any of the newer models and with 6ft of snow it will be a while. Just want to know same or better?
Thanks Retro11
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Let me ask, I have just traded my 08 SG for a 2011. will I notice a change in gearing and handleing? I have not been on any of the newer models and with 6ft of snow it will be a while. Just want to know same or better?
Thanks Retro11
If you like twisty roads the 2011 will be a big upgrade from the 08. Stiffer chassis really holds the lines better.
The 08 was 2.79 final, the 2011 is 2.87. A little better but not much, still way over geared. The 30T takes em to 3.06.
The old 5 speeds were 3.15 for comparison.
SG
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Thanks for the feedback.
retro 11
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Just installed a 30t on my 2010. Runs great now especially up grades and in the mountains.
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Got the bike out today with the new 30t pulley. 6th gear is a lot more usable. The speedo is off about 10 percent and I dont have a tts.
Anyone know of a box I can hookup so I can adjust the speedo.
The motor no runs its powerband.
Look into a speedo-healer:
http://www.healtech-electronics.com/
I've used these in the past (not on a harley) and they work GREAT for calibrating the speedometer. Install was plug 'n' play (but again ... no experience with HD install). Good customer/tech support as well. Retail around $115 I think.
Hope this helps ...
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Look into a speedo-healer:
http://www.healtech-electronics.com/
I've used these in the past (not on a harley) and they work GREAT for calibrating the speedometer. Install was plug 'n' play (but again ... no experience with HD install). Good customer/tech support as well. Retail around $115 I think.
Hope this helps ...
That site has the most annoying music I have ever heard!
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Update: I was at bike week in Daytona and managed to rack up 1400 miles during the week. Got along side my buddy again and now they are identical on RPM. We could only figure maybe he was in 5th gear last time? With all the research I did it didn't make sense that it should be different. Overall super happy with the way she performs
Mark
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Look into a speedo-healer:
http://www.healtech-electronics.com/
I've used these in the past (not on a harley) and they work GREAT for calibrating the speedometer. Install was plug 'n' play (but again ... no experience with HD install). Good customer/tech support as well. Retail around $115 I think.
Hope this helps ...
:nixweiss: I'd be getting one of these too since I'm about to do the pulley/belt swap also HOWEVER, if you review another post on here re: 30T, etc. which is discussing the same topic.............I think within there is says that making (over a 5%) correction to your speedo.......WILL cause you to lose "Cruise control" capability since the black box won't accept a deviation over 5%. So far, Only those with the TTS setup can correct their speedo and NOT lose cruise.
If anyone knows another way to do it (I don't have the TTS), please advise. Course if you don't have cruise, no big deal.
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:nixweiss: I'd be getting one of these too since I'm about to do the pulley/belt swap also HOWEVER, if you review another post on here re: 30T, etc. which is discussing the same topic.............I think within there is says that making (over a 5%) correction to your speedo.......WILL cause you to lose "Cruise control" capability since the black box won't accept a deviation over 5%. So far, Only those with the TTS setup can correct their speedo and NOT lose cruise.
If anyone knows another way to do it (I don't have the TTS), please advise. Course if you don't have cruise, no big deal.
My dealer used a unit from Dakota Digital. They set the speed back to factory specs on the dyno and the cruise and 6th gear light work fine. I have a SERT on mine.
http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=results/Category_ID=519/home_id=-1/mode=cat/cat519.htm
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:nixweiss:
Well, maybe yours works OK, but per this posting, this guys did NOT.
Re: 30T and HAPPY!
« Reply #40 on: February 20, 2011, 08:54:50 AM » Quote
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Quote from: gordy on February 20, 2011, 01:14:20 AM
Seen somewhere the -1 belt is HD 40056-07, is that right?
Gates 77560 139t belt from Drag is what I found that worked on my 2010.
This gearing threw my speedo of about 10%
Gps reads 50mph = speedo reads 55mph
Gps reads 64mph = speedo reads 70mph
Dakota digital sells a speed correction box I put on mine and got it dead on but then the 6th gear light wouldnt work and the cruse wouldnt turn on. Seems the computer has a 5% correction error on the adjustment and anything outside that the computer wont know its in 6 th gear. But if you don`t mine the the speedo error everything works great.
From what I have read the TTS Mastertune letd you actually tell the ECM what the true gearing is and the speedo corrected to true ground speed .
ASK STEVE COLE
The bike is running on the torque curve like it should now.
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Yep, with the dakota unit, you do have to set back to factory specs.
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:nixweiss:
Well, here we seem to have different results with some of those using the Dakota Digital deal to correct the speedo error. One says after using it, the 6th gear lite and also the "cruise control" no longer functioned......another says those things still worked after adding the D.Digital device. :confused5:
Anybody try out the Speed healer mentioned earlier in this post and if so, did it fu** up the cruise control..........I'd like to know. :drink:
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I have zero experience with bakers 7 speed. My first question would be why? Even a 125 two stoke with a lightswitch powerband
only needs a 6 speed. Final drive is final drive regardless of how many gears it has. If your looking for efficiency and milage, you have
to spend your time in a 1 to 1 gear ratio not bogging the engine out of closed loop into the richer section of the fuel map.
SG
Steve, what size belt did you go with? 139 tooth? Is there enough adjustment room to tension the belt to the proper spec if you did use a 139T?
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:cherry:
I'm just now seeing this post again for the first time in a few months. Update........I have now done the 30T sprocket swap with a 139T belt and did NOT lose my cruise control. It works just fine and so does the 6th speed lite. Of course, my speedo is off a little, but no big deal.
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:2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21: Cool, might just need to do this 30T, -1, TTS thing. Not sure if I'm gonna stay with the Rinehart's or go Fullsac X w/2" baffles. Gotta get past being timid about the dang warranty before I do any cam work. But then I need to be in the US to do anything huh.
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The gearing is the same from 09-2011. 2.87 final drive. The 30T will drop it to 3.06. The gearing chart says 2994 RPM at 75 mph with the 3.06
Stock speedos are 6% fast with a new tire. I see this everyday on the dyno. As the tire wears they get even faster. I run the 3.06 on my 107.
I very cautiously went to the 31 and then the 30T. Amazing improvement everywhere. Another benefit for me, quieter exhaust at 75-80.
The motor is laboring as much and makes less noise with less throttle required to maintain speed. The girlfriend thought I was testing new mufflers
and commented on how quiet they were. Less vibration too. Its truly one of those overlooked and underated mods. Stock 6 speed are over geared.
Steve George
Fullsac Performance
Your girlfriend was happy with LESS vibration..hmmmm
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:vrolijk_5: