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[cambo]

Hello Cam,

Like I said the other day, if you could not find any leaks on the floor it's in the tranny.  I think the slave is leaking like a mofo.  Sorry to be the bad news guy but the new master cylinder won't fix your problem.  Make sure when you take it back to get it fixed correctly with a new slave that they change out the contaminated tranny fluid as well.  I don't know for sure but the lubrication properties could be altered in a seriously negative way.  This could, Maybe?, affect the seals as well.

Will you have it back for this Saturday's ride?

John

John,
Even with reinforcements (one of my riding buddies who is as knowledgeable as you came with me) this dealer would not budge and considers the problem taken care of! So since I am real close to the 1000 mile service I think I will ride it this weekend which should get me there (currently I have 600 miles on it). Then I'll take it to Frederick HD and have them check it out and fix it. What do you think?

Can

[RonandJanet]

A quick check on the fluid will let you know if it is leaking.  I wonder if they filled it but never bleed the system or ran the fluid through the lines. That would end up making the master look low.

It is interesting that the clutch line could leak fluid into the transmission and mix with the fluid there. That can't be a good thing. I would have thought that the mechanism had to be separated.  That is what I get for thinking! 

[jpb]

John,
Even with reinforcements (one of my riding buddies who is as knowledgeable as you came with me) this dealer would not budge and considers the problem taken care of! So since I am real close to the 1000 mile service I think I will ride it this weekend which should get me there (currently I have 600 miles on it). Then I'll take it to Frederick HD and have them check it out and fix it. What do you think?

Can

I would say leave it sit for a few days and pull the master cylinder cover off and see if it has dropped.  I am almost positive you will find it empty again.  You have already dropped two master cylinder load fulls into the tranny.  This will make a third.

I hope I don't get bashed for this but I believe rubber parts that come into contact with brake fluids are specially formulated and the seals on your tranny are not.  This transmission / brake fluid mixture you may or may not have might just cause your tranny seals to fail?

Of course even if it does it is covered under warranty but do you want this same guy working on your transmission?  NOT!!

[grc]

If no external leaks can be found, and if the system really was full of fluid to begin with, then rapid loss of fluid in the reservoir has to be due to the slave cylinder (actuator) located in the trans side cover.  And yes, that means you would be contaminating the trans fluid with glycol (brake fluid).

If the system just had a lot of air in it from new and the fluid level in the reservoir dropped as the air was purged, the clutch would have operated very poorly with that much air in the system.  Such as severe clutch drag causing difficult shifting when moving and a huge bang and grind when engaging first from neutral.  If you didn't have any of those problems early on, then a large amount of air in the system wasn't the problem.

I think you need to get the bike to a competent shop, before you find yourself stranded with an inoperable clutch.

Jerry

[cambo]

John and Jerry,

You are both correct. The bike was not right from day one but I thought maybe because it is new so didn't make a big deal out of the fact that I could not start it while in gear (it would lurch forward even with the clutch engaged) and it acted like an automatic transmission at stop lights, meaning unless I applied the break the bike would creep forward. Then it stopped working completely and I could not put it in gear from neutral or roll it with the clutch engaged and the engine not running unless I put it in neutral. So essentially the clutch was dead.

Ron,

On Saturday they did the bleed and refill routine and told me it was low and had a lot of air in the line. By Monday when I went to pick up the bike the fluid was all gone again. The mechanic was adamant that he had never seen this problem before (he was the senior mechanic at the dealership) and the service manager stated that the fluid would not leak into the transmission anyhow because Harley has a new design that isolates the clutch from the transmission and I have nothing to worry about. When I asked about where all the fluid went if it's not in the transmission or on the floor I got blank stares. I did not have enough knowledge of clutch/transmission design in general or how HD does things so I had to take his word on it, especially since both the manager and the head mechanic promptly left for lunch before they even told the service writer that the bike was fixed (according to them) and what they did to fix it.

I will try the clutch again the rest of the week and if there are any issues will take it to Frederick (not the dealership that has so far worked on it). Regardless when I take it for the 1000 mile service I will ask that they look into the leak situation and document what they find and what they do about it for future reference.

 

Cam

[120R]

Thx moscooter and grc for the info, thank God that the dealer apologize for not starting with the fluid drain yet, I'll call them and tell them to stop, thx again guys


Giulio

[grc]

Back in 2012, for the 2013 models, the CVO clutch actuator setup was changed, but I don't see anything that would preclude fluid getting into the trans if the actuator was leaking.  The models with the new setup are easy to identify, they have the separate plastic cover over the actual trans side cover, and the bleeder fitting is hidden.  If the cylinder develops a leak, the fluid can still track into the trans through the pushrod hole.  If the leak was external to the trans side, then the fluid would eventually find it's way to the bottom of the bike and drip on the floor.  In Cam's case it has been stated there was no sign of an external leak, and the amount of fluid that was "missing" would have made for a decent sized puddle.  Of course, now we know his clutch wasn't releasing properly since day one, so maybe he just had a ton of air in the system that wasn't removed the first time by the dealership tech, but the amount of fluid drop that's been described would translate to a huge amount of air and I doubt the clutch would have released at all.  I guess time will tell what really happened, at least when a competent tech checks the bike out.

Jerry

[RonandJanet]

Camcvo, I very interested in how this works out and I hope everything is fine now.

[cambo]

Camcvo, I very interested in how this works out and I hope everything is fine now.

Ronald,

Based on the opinion expressed by knowledgeable folks John, Jerry, and the rest of the members on this site I don't think I'm out of the woods yet! I'll be riding with John and the gang this weekend and will be 'smoke testing' the fix as it were. I will keep everyone posted as to the outcome unless I don't survive the test unscathed in which case I'm sure John will provide the blow by blow! 

Cam

[T-Roy]

Well New Orleans Harley changed my master cylinder and flushed the system. They then test rode the bike an declared it good to go. I picked it up and for about halfway home all seemed well. Then the clutch lever did the opposite of what it did the other day. This time the lever locked up and I could not pull it in at all. I just now made it home after waiting for a tow for about 4 hours. Going to sleep now because I had the tow drop it at Hammond Harley 18 miles from the house parked at the service entrance door. I need to be there when they open in the morning.

[MrSurly]

Well, it gets more interesting. I hope they get you fixed up so you can complete your trip.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[grc]

Makes me wonder if they just did a rebuild of the M/C and somehow screwed it up, or they actually installed a new M/C and it was one of the defective ones that caused the M/C recall not too long ago.  Hopefully the second shop will get it right for you. 

Jerry

[cambo]

Interesting how this is obviously an issue that happens a lot and yet the service departments have no way of sharing any info on its occurrence or how, if ever, they fix it. As a computer geek I see an opportunity for a knowledge sharing website for the dealer network. Kinda like what we have here for us riders. Hmmm...

Cam

[OBB]

Interesting how this is obviously an issue that happens a lot and yet the service departments have no way of sharing any info on its occurrence or how, if ever, they fix it. As a computer geek I see an opportunity for a knowledge sharing website for the dealer network. Kinda like what we have here for us riders. Hmmm...

Cam

Hell, all they have to do is create an account here and read everything we post about.

T-Roy, Just from your description of the second failure with you saying the clutch lever locked up, to me it sounds like something got jammed in the mech itself. It wouldn't surprise me if it's part of a zip tie or something stupid. Interesting to see how it turns out.

[cambo]

Update: Since it's not raining today I figured I'd try and get out for a short run to see if the clutch is still ok. It's NOT! It's dead and no fluid on the garage floor. I'll try calling Frederic HD to see if they would help out.

Cam