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[kojack]

My bike ran like crap before installing my PCIII.   after it runs smooth but has a misfire and its not crisp when cracking throttle,  it has a big delay and a misfire.   Any other items or ideas on how to fix this?  I know everyone will say its the MM.  but there are many many MM bikes running fine.

[skratch]

you have a problem.  and you've just added another layer to try and troubleshoot.  you shouldn't be adding tuners/tunes unless your bike is running properly in the first place.  i would remove the tuner (for now) and find out what is making your bike run poorly to start, then once you get that sorted, you can add your tuner back in.

your last statement, '...but there are many mm bikes running fine' is like saying, 'it can't be my lifters, there are many cvo's out there without lifter problems'. 

[kojack]

I didn't say it can't be.   I said,  I don't want to hear "its a MM bike.  its going to run like a pile."  There is a big difference.   Anything you can think of to chase? 

[tdkkart]

I didn't say it can't be.   I said,  I don't want to hear "its a MM bike.  its going to run like a pile."  There is a big difference.   Anything you can think of to chase?

 I owned a M-M bike, it ran fine with and without the PCIII, with and without engine mods.  There's some issues with them, but they are capable of running just fine.

#1. Any time they start to act up the first thing to do is to disconnect the battery or pull the ECM fuse for 30 minutes.

#2. There's a specific proceedure for recalibrating the base throttle position in the ECM, and also for checking and setting the Throttle Position Sensor voltage. These are key settings. I'll look to see if I can find them.

3. Check the fuel injector wiring up under the tank, thee were some bikes that had issues with damaged wiring. 

4. Check for intake leaks.

I had some info, I will look and get back with you.

If all else fails, convert it to carb. 
Yes, mine ran very well injected, but I always felt like I was leaving something on the table.
I converted it to carb and it finally really ran the way it was supposed to.

[Twolanerider]

My bike ran like crap before installing my PCIII.   after it runs smooth but has a misfire and its not crisp when cracking throttle,  it has a big delay and a misfire.   Any other items or ideas on how to fix this?  I know everyone will say its the MM.  but there are many many MM bikes running fine.

Thought I remembered you changing the wires when the discussion of potential tuners and it running badly first came up when you joined us here?  If not do that.  Old wires, just like on a car, can break down under a load.  Mileage notwithstanding.  And if they are still the stock wires they are certainly old enough to be considered a potential source of problem.  Also be 100% sure you've got no vacuum leaks at any of the sensor gaskets or intake seals.  Even the slightest vacuum leak will give a Marelli bike fits.

If you've not done them throw plugs and wires at it "just because."  They are too cheap and easy not to eliminate as a source of potential problem.  You've still got the original problem you've always had, however, of the puppy chasing its tail.

You're trying to load a tune that matches you have no clue what.  The Power Commander III is a fine tool for someone who can track their responses on a dyno and feel what is changing in real time.  But if you're just loading and then (maybe) swapping data in cells it's just masturb-tuning.  It may feel good while you're doing it but you still little chance of really scoring anywhere but in your own mind.

Plugs and wires, just because.  If it's cutting out under a load maybe a fuel filter for the same reason, and check the fuel line in the tank for leakage under pressure.  Other things that can cause driveability problems and often not throw a code are crank position sensors and cam position sensors.  So if you have no clue what the problem might be and no way nor willingness to actually diagnose those are other parts to potentially just throw at it. 

You've written before that the engine was "built" but with no real idea as to how.  If that's still the case how did you have any clue what PCIII map to load?  Do you know if the old Marelli version of the race tuner had ever been used to dial it in previously?  If so that changed the base map in the ECM so any overlay you'd load in the Power Commander would still be wrong.

Do the cheap and obvious stuff.  Maybe you'll get lucky and, voila, it'll suddenly start running better.  If so you declare personal brilliance and move on.  If not, however, that puppy will still just keep chasing its tail with tuners and changes thereto.  I know you've written that a dyno was too far away to get to.  That distance, however, may end up being precisely the number of kilometers it will eventually take to make the bike run right.

[kojack]

OK, 


I have to break out my service manual.  I know exactly whats in my motor now.   When I got it first,  I had no clue.   It came with a PCIII serial that make the bike run like complete chit.  As it stands now,  it does feel like an electrical problem.  I am going to install new spark plug wires,  changed the plugs yesterday.  The vacuum leaks sound like a possibility. 

I do believe it's something very small and dumb causing this problem.   I never rode the bike for awhile as I lost interest in it.  But have found a new love for it on the highways.  Speaking of which,  on the highway it runs fantastic.  TOP end she rips.  and seems to have the crisp TR that I am chasing.  However,  low end,  and idle is an issue.   We were on a ride the other day,  and one of my buddies on his new yammie stryker and I had a little toot.   He was max'ed and I just blew by him like he was stopped.  And I am not far off my "brothers" Supercharged street glide on top either.   I know there is HP locked away in my bike.  Once I get the low end figured out,  its going to be a great ride.   I know it's something stupid.   

My motor has the following.   ported heads (don't know by who)(that is the mystery I have with my motor,  the local Harley shop said it looked to be a professional job.  But, ultimately, Until I look myself, I won't know. 211 screamin eagle cams, PC III USB, pro pipe 2-1, stage 2 se intake judging from the parts on the bike.  As I said earlier as well,  the bike does run much better than without the PC,  so I am figuring I have the tune pretty close.  Dyno yes,  is the best way to the 100 percent out of your bike,  but I have tuned many bikes, sleds etc,  none with MM fuel injection however,  and I have gotten very close all the way around. 

[Twolanerider]

I have to break out my service manual.  I know exactly whats in my motor now.   

Cool.  Sounds like you are a lot farther along than when the bike was being discussed right after you'd gotten it.  So glad you got more details on the engine.

If the wires are original change them.  Just because.  Age is a factor there and they're too cheap to have any concern over.  I have, very rarely, seen old coils misbehave in a way somewhat like you're describing also.  Definitely double check anyplace you might have a vac leak too.

If the issue you're describing now seems to expand to other engine ranges think about the fuel filter and the line in the tank.  If you've got a shop around you that can clean injectors that's a consideration too. 

Fortunately there aren't that many pieces to these systems and none are too difficult to get to.

[kojack]

Yeah,  that's happening when I can take the intake off my bike.  The 3 bolts that hold my filter on are stripped and I have new ones ordered I pick them up on Saturday.  I was talking to my friend who is also a Harley mechanic as well.  He said crank sensor could be the culprit as well.  I will get through this and make it run correctly.  But I can't get any codes.  my button does not work in the speedo.

[Twolanerider]

Yeah,  that's happening when I can take the intake off my bike.  The 3 bolts that hold my filter on are stripped and I have new ones ordered I pick them up on Saturday.  I was talking to my friend who is also a Harley mechanic as well.  He said crank sensor could be the culprit as well.  I will get through this and make it run correctly.  But I can't get any codes.  my button does not work in the speedo.

I'm someone who will at least potentially suspect a crank position sensor of anything up to and including a flat tire on the car parked next me.  They'll more often than not never throw a code.  They will, however, more often just shut the bike the down.  Sometimes (though not always) to start right back up.  So while I'd not discount anything a CPS wouldn't be my first guess based on your descriptions.  It is, however, easy and relatively inexpensive to just swap.  So if you're just parts swapping; hey, it's as good as anything else.  Don't forget that your bike also still has the cam position sensor that the later bikes do not.  The cam sensor was even more problematic than the crank sensor.

What 3 bolts are you describing to hold the filter in place?  The pump itself is held to the housing with straps and the filter is held to the housing with a clip.  So not sure what bolts you might be concerned with or how they might bother things?

[tdkkart]

Don't forget that your bike also still has the cam position sensor that the later bikes do not.  The cam sensor was even more problematic than the crank sensor.

What 3 bolts are you describing to hold the filter in place?  The pump itself is held to the housing with straps and the filter is held to the housing with a clip.  So not sure what bolts you might be concerned with or how they might bother things?

He may or may not have a cam sensor, I had a 2001 Wide Glide that had one, had a 2001 Ultra Classic that didn't ever have one.

He's talking about the 3 bolts that hold his air filter on. Being an SE, it probably has those damn'd button head allens, or torx, holding the SE filter on. Unless you leave them only finger tight they hardly ever come out without a fight.

I like button heads, as long as someone else is taking them apart next time.

[kojack]

Mine has the screamin eagle stage 2 intake,  so it's a K&N filter mounted to some sort of cage and the football (ewwww) mounts onto that.  Pretty well I am going to get this bugger running right some how.  might be a complete engine swap,  I don't know.  I am going to change all the normal "wear" items that has been discussed,  cam position, crank position sensor, I should get a injector cleaner tossed in the tank while I am at it too.  and clean the tb as well.

[bbass]

My bike ran like crap before installing my PCIII.   after it runs smooth but has a misfire and its not crisp when cracking throttle,  it has a big delay and a misfire.   Any other items or ideas on how to fix this?  I know everyone will say its the MM.  but there are many many MM bikes running fine.

You may also want perform the wiggle test on the injector wires.

[kojack]

Is the injector wires a common source of hiccups?  I just did the ignition off/on code read,  but sheeesh,  I cannot count that fast.   There are a bunch of codes in there tho.

[kojack]

Ok,  a little more playing around I notice the hesitation while in netural is from idle to 2500/2700 rpm when just rappin on it.  Once you crank it to 3k its pretty crisp if you get what I am saying,  there is a good delay and studder when twisting the throttle until about 2500 or so.  but if you keep on her and crank it about 3 grand it is working somewhat as it should.   Any closer to diagnosis there?

[Twolanerider]

Is the injector wires a common source of hiccups?  I just did the ignition off/on code read,  but sheeesh,  I cannot count that fast.   There are a bunch of codes in there tho.

Terribly common?  No.  Does it happen?  Yes.  Not just on the Marelli bikes either.  Breakage or chafing beneath the tank where the injector pigtails attach is where you'll commonly find an issue if it's going to happen.

Ok,  a little more playing around I notice the hesitation while in netural is from idle to 2500/2700 rpm when just rappin on it.  Once you crank it to 3k its pretty crisp if you get what I am saying,  there is a good delay and studder when twisting the throttle until about 2500 or so.  but if you keep on her and crank it about 3 grand it is working somewhat as it should.   Any closer to diagnosis there?

KJ, not trying to rain on your parade here but you're way past "playing around" here.  You've been dealing with the same general issues for what, a year or so now?  A parade of options for just shotgunning it have been shared and discussed (though you might replace every single part and still have a problem since you've really no idea if the issue a tuning map problem or a weak/bad part).   More diagnostic approaches have also been discussed.  Now you're saying there are a "bunch" of codes too.

So pick an approach.

Do what is necessary to pull the codes and work from there.

or

Just start swapping parts one at a time and hope something makes it better.

or

Actually get it tuned and hope that makes it better.



Don't get me wrong; I'd love to pop in here and read that the old beast is now running like a CVO site moderator toward a politically inclined thread.  But you're not going to get there just yanking the throttle and listening for "something."

If it were me I would:   Pull the codes (no matter how tedious that was).  Study and review those codes and then (if necessary) ask here what that combination of codes might suggest.  I'd then change the potentially 15 year old plug wires and whatever else was suggested by the codes.  I'd then hope to have scored a beneficial differences and, if I had, finally deal with getting the tuning map dialed in.  But until I had something planned out and something accomplished everything else would be off the table.  No upgrades nor other changes that would just add more variables to the mix.  At some point it's time to stop turning the throttle and start turning the tools.

You might choose to go at it a different way.  Just start swapping parts until something clicks in your favor.  But however you do it doing something else has to be a next step.  Absolute best of luck getting it sorted; seriously.  Share the insights or questions as you go through whatever steps you choose to go through.  But it's time to start steppin' my friend.  Make that bitch run right.

[kojack]

Yes,  I know I have to get the codes.  That is now a 4 hr each way ride.   The local dealer tried to rip me off with some parts.  to the tune of charging me 3 times as much as the dealer 4 hrs away.   No it was not a huge amount of money,  but being ripped off is being ripped off. 

Now,  to run around in circles,  that H-moto,  I mentioned,  I can use that to read codes.  So maybe I will get that and go from there.

[kojack]

Too funny,  I was trying to read the codes backwards.  Yeah,  my dislexyia coming through.   I have to look at the slow flashes,  not the fast ones!  DOH.

Try again this morning and see what I get.   I have been doing more reading and a few others have had the exact same issues as mine.  they said a simple clean and setup of the system was all that was needed.   I hope that's all that I need.  I will have er running top notch next week if that's the case.   My Local dealer does not have the reader anymore for my bike either.   I am buying one for my shop.  I will have one for the delphis too.   

[Twolanerider]

Now,  to run around in circles,  that H-moto,  I mentioned,  I can use that to read codes.  So maybe I will get that and go from there.

I would double check before spending the money.  The device gave the typical descriptions about the coverage years and models.  It is very likely, however, that it requires the data port on the Delphi bikes.  So while it would work on a 2000 fuel injected Softail it won't work on touring models until 2002 as the touring bikes stayed Marelli through 2001. 

[Unbalanced]

Kojak,

How old is your PC3?   FWIW, Dynojet released a PC5 system for the MM that is supposed to be heads above better than the old version.  My friend has tune a few of these and said the results are fantastic compared to the old PC3 which was discontinued.   I realize you may have other issues going on, but thought this might be helpful.

http://www.powercommander.com/powercommander/powercommanders.aspx?mk=20&mdl=313&yr=2001&pc=15-040&mk-n=Harley-Davidson&mdl-n=Touring Models&pc-ver=PCV&add-mdlyrid=15-040&add-mdlyrid2=802-511&fullstr=802-511,15-040&prod-type=Powercommander III USBPowercommander V&notes=73,62,73

[kojack]

I am not sure how old mine is,  It was older than the latest model.   It is usb.  but I am thinking about getting the PCV from fuel moto to get a better tune in my bike.  I am soon to be dealer for fuel moto so I will deal with them.

[kojack]

Got my plug wires etc.   I think I'm going to take the tank off etc,  and inspect all wires, connections etc as well.  rule that stuff out.  I have been reading a lot and most people mention the wiring harness in the 2001 is suspect because of poor placement etc.   

[Twolanerider]

Got my plug wires etc.   I think I'm going to take the tank off etc,  and inspect all wires, connections etc as well.  rule that stuff out.  I have been reading a lot and most people mention the wiring harness in the 2001 is suspect because of poor placement etc.

Not just 2001.  But the potential issue isn't uncommon so it's worth a look.  Look from the injectors up.  Anything that might seem suspect.  Especially where the injector pigtails make their "turn" or bend up to the larger harness.

[kojack]

Yeah,  I am going to go through everything.   I will eventually get it sorted.   I am 90 percent sure it's electrical and not fuel related now.

[Unbalanced]

kojak,

I may have missed it, but have you checked fuel pressure?   Have you checked in the tank to be sure the hoses haven't rubbed and possibly gotten tiny holes in them causing fluctuation in fuel delivery?   have you happened to add extra fuel to the range where you have the misfire say 20% more fuel to ensure you just don't have lean spots?   You say it is crisp after 3000 rpm why I ask about the "possible lean factor"

[FLTRI]

Ok, FWIW, the SE211 is a great cam for light bikes and really comes to life with higher compression.
That said, there are  virtually no canned maps for your combo that will be close...ESPECIALLY in the 2250-3500 rpm range. It is a unique cam profile as compared to others in that lift and duration class.
If you want to get the bike to its best running a proper dyno tune by a qualified tuner will produce a great running bike. Not a decent running bike.
I have tried many times to ear-dial EFI bikes with a laptop. I can get it running decent but never close to what a dyno tune will produce. Smoothness, throttle response, and mileage are not really attainable with guessing unless you are exceptionally lucky.
Not knowing what TP compared to rpm makes tuning just a WAG at best IME.
Bob

[kojack]

As mentioned before,  There is no Dyno anywhere close to me.   That's a not going to happen.   That being said,  I am going to be a fuel moto dealer very soon and I will be getting a new tuner so I can use their tunes which I am sure will be much closer than what I have.   There was a canned tune on dynojets site using 211s,  etc....So,  that is the one I am using. 

[Ridgerunr]

"There is no Dyno anywhere close to me."

I hauled my bike 1500 miles (round trip) once to get it tuned. Money well spent.

[kojack]

Hauling it 1500 miles round trip is one thing...hauling it 500 miles,  the 7hrs on a ferry ,  then another 800 miles one way is quite another.   I will get it sorted,  and running good.   

[Ridgerunr]

I hear ya Kojack, you are in a unique situation. Best wishes getting it sorted out.

[FlaHeatWave]

Have you considered one of these?

http://www.easternperformance.com/technoresearch-maximus-tuner-4-pin-connector-harley-delphi-01-13-marelli-97-00.html

[kojack]

Never saw that before.   So,  I have the entire intake off the bike,  sprayed intake runner cleaner in around everything, wiped it down and cleaned it all up.  air blasted the filter, etc.   while she sits now,  with everything off,  it works like a charm,  it started and raised the idle right away,  and the idle stayed there.   I let it sit for 3 or 4 min running like that then cracked the throttle.  down to 1000.  I played with the low idle screw that goes to the cables,  and never touched the high rpm.   It idled for 15 mins no issue.  Funny thing is as I was screwing in the low idle screw,  it would reduce the idle instead of what I thought it would do.  backed it off and bammo.  idled around 950,  I would like it a little higher as I am not a purist and care not if I have potato or not.  but it sat and idled happily.  Now,  cracking the throttle sounded and felt "crisper" as well.  There was still a little stumble but nothing like before.  Could my filter be REALLY CLOGGED?   I can see some light through it but I am not sure how much I would see with a new one.  Next up is swap my plug wires and go for a run.   if that does not cure it,  I am going to sit,  and add some fuel through the PCIII on the low end.

[kojack]

Oh,  BTW,  what is the hose that goes from the bottom of the intake backing plate,  to the little chorme tube that seems to be connected to the heads?

[kojack]

Remember I mentioned a "squeak" noise from my motor.   Well I have a video of it now.  I will figure out how to post it after.   You can hear it,  It sounds like a glitch in the video but its the motor make that noise.  and it sounds like it came from the front cyl through the intake.

[kojack]

Well,  after getting everything put back together,  I now idle at 1400 rpm.  I added more fuel in the low end,  but I am going to go more.   Should be pretty good after that.

[FLTRI]

Well,  after getting everything put back together,  I now idle at 1400 rpm.  I added more fuel in the low end,  but I am going to go more.   Should be pretty good after that.

Sounds like you have messed with the cold/warmup idle screw, the warm/hot idle screw, or both.
When the bike is dead cold start it up and see what rpms you have. If the cold rpm is too high or low shut it off asap so unnecessary heat builds up so you can retest after adjustment.
(You may have to back off the hot idle screw because it is confounding the warm up adjustment)
Once you are happy with the cold startup idle speed, let it completely warm...like ride it around for 5 mins. Once completely warm readjust the hot idle speed to 900-1050.
Once this is done unplug the ECM fuse under the righ side cover in the cute black fuse holder for 5mins.
Plug the fuse back in and ride.
THIS ASSUMES THE IDLE - 1500 rpm FUEL MIXTURE IS CLOSE. Gotta be close enough for the mechanical idle speed control (ISC) to work properly.
If you do not have a way to measure AFR and think you will be able to guess your way through a Magneti Marelli idle setup and tune, I can tell you from many years experience working with these MM EFI systems, it will drive you completely nuts trying to figure out how get the thing running right.
There's 100s of threads in the Harley forums out there with folks trying to get it right.
Find a tuner that really knows MM EFI and you will be very happy. Otherwise find an Indy who will convert you to a carb then ride.
Hope this helps,
Bob

[kojack]

I am my indy.   I just never adjusted a  MM before.   I never touched the two screws that are covered in epoxy.  I know better than that.   So,  the single t8 screw I have been adjusting,  adjusts both cold and hot idle?

[Twolanerider]

I am my indy.   I just never adjusted a  MM before.   I never touched the two screws that are covered in epoxy.  I know better than that.   So,  the single t8 screw I have been adjusting,  adjusts both cold and hot idle?

No, not and cold idle are separate screws.  Check your service manual or at least visually and specifically look at the bell crank behind the face of the throttle body.  You'll see the other screw back there.  Set them one at a time.  Do the cold idle (assuming you're starting with a cold bike).  Get it where you want it.  Go through the shut down/pull the fuses/wait procedure.  Then do it all again for the regular idle setting. 

I've read service revisions that say this isn't necessary.  Or steps can be handled differently.  But, hundreds of years ago when Marelli first came on the scene, that was the recommended idle setting procedure and it works almost all the time.  I throw in the "almost all the time" because sometimes Marelli bikes are just a little quirky and an idle setting you just changed won't be where you had it.  Then you just do it again.  It doesn't happen often; but once in awhile.....

Since it seems you're tackling this (as a bona fide indy shop) without benefit of manual nor background that has you familiar with the old bikes here's a suggestion to consider.  Just FWIW.  Get a Clymer manual.  They are not factory manuals.  They will once in awhile suffer a little in comparison.  But in some ways they are better.  They're not written so much with the professional audience in mind.  They tend to do a little better sometimes describing the steps and processes in a way that is more for the home wrench.

They've also usually got some pretty good wiring diagrams that are for many easier to read too.  So it's a win-win with that material that an indy shop will need sometime too.

[kojack]

I have the manual,  just it's misplaced since we moved.   Well,  I know its idling now,  ha ha.   around 1500 rpm hot.  a little to much for my liking.  1100 would be ideal.   Twolane,  can you send me your email so I can email you a video of the "squeak" in my motor that I have been mentioning?

[kojack]

oh,  my hot idle goes to 2000rpm just for a second and then drops.   I am going to hunt down the screw for that one.   

[Twolanerider]

oh,  my hot idle goes to 2000rpm just for a second and then drops.   I am going to hunt down the screw for that one.

At least get a parts manual so you can see the exploded views rather than just wondering if something is out there and hoping you might then have a way to fix/adjust/find it.  Often times the exploded views in the parts manual are more and faster help than the descriptions in the service manuals anyway.

[kojack]

awesome.  thanks brother,  you are awesome.   the one in the front is the "hot" idle and the one on top is the cold idle I assume?

[Twolanerider]

awesome.  thanks brother,  you are awesome.   the one in the front is the "hot" idle and the one on top is the cold idle I assume?

That's affirmed.

[kojack]

thanks brother.  I will figure this stuff out.   Time to get her back on the lift and go through it again.

[FLTRI]

I am my indy.   I just never adjusted a  MM before.   I never touched the two screws that are covered in epoxy.  I know better than that.   So,  the single t8 screw I have been adjusting,  adjusts both cold and hot idle?

First, the two epoxied screws are nothing more than idle air bleed for each cylinder. If you have a stock engine the is no reason to consider adjust these.
If you have a modified engine the ECM has no way to adjust for the changes.
All you have is a power commander that can add or remove fuel and timing.
Idle control, warm up steps, etc are not adjustable with a power commander.
This is one reason for all the conversions to carbs.
The other reason is a complete misunderstanding how the MM actually works and folks get to twisting screws and end up with a mess. I've seen and corrected many of the MM bikes after too many cook ruined the stew.
Like I said these are very difficult to get right with engine mods..even for the seasoned tuner.
This is why I suggested you have a guy who really understands the system to at least help you with idle speed control through the temp range.
But good luck in any event,
Bob

[MLCRISIS]

There are several good threads out there concerning switching these "classics" to carbs. Seems like it can be done relatively cheap. Depends on how long you plan on keeping the old girl. Other option is the T Maxx. I have that setup on my 01 SERG, came with the bike, runs very good. Don't know if I would have sprung for it as they are not cheap.

[kojack]

First, the two epoxied screws are nothing more than idle air bleed for each cylinder. If you have a stock engine the is no reason to consider adjust these.
If you have a modified engine the ECM has no way to adjust for the changes.
All you have is a power commander that can add or remove fuel and timing.
Idle control, warm up steps, etc are not adjustable with a power commander.
This is one reason for all the conversions to carbs.
The other reason is a complete misunderstanding how the MM actually works and folks get to twisting screws and end up with a mess. I've seen and corrected many of the MM bikes after too many cook ruined the stew.
Like I said these are very difficult to get right with engine mods..even for the seasoned tuner.
This is why I suggested you have a guy who really understands the system to at least help you with idle speed control through the temp range.
But good luck in any event,
Bob

Thank you bob.  yes my engine is modified.   It is ported with 211 cams. 

This issue I have,  and have mentioned many times is there is NO ONE within traveling distances that is able to work on MM bikes. I know more about the MM fuel injector system than the 2 local dealers, that's why I am learning.  I want to make it run right.  I am very technically minded.   I have a mind for figuring out things.  If I don't know,  I ask.  I am a question asker.   I guess without the scanalyzer I cannot adjust the air bleeds to make it run correctly with my mods.   I am not converting to carb,  that's a step backward in technology that I am done with. 

I have read that a performance inc.  throttle body makes tuning the MM much easier as its a different setup all together.  That is a last ditch effort however.   

I have read about the voltage method of adjusting idle.  how is that any different than setting each idle point using your tach as a guage?   What do I connect my Meter to?  are there leads etc to connect to?  I did raise the warm idle....ALOT,  and I know I did adjust it a fair amount on the screw.  But I guess The bike was not completely warm when I adjusted it I guess.  Pulled the fuses and bam.  1400-1500 rpm warm idle.   Now that I know that I can dial it in better.   

next up is the cold idle.  Another quick question Do I adjust the cold idle first? or does it matter.  I am close to having my warm idle nailed.  At least it stays running when I stop now.  ha ha.

When it gets down to 950 rpm every now and then a loud squeak comes from the front cyl.  I have a video of it,  it sounds the same if there was a digital glitch in the video,  but its my engine.  idle it up and it goes away.  Its like the motor stumbles and a squeak comes out of it.

[skratch]

When it gets down to 950 rpm every now and then a loud squeak comes from the front cyl.  I have a video of it,  it sounds the same if there was a digital glitch in the video,  but its my engine.  idle it up and it goes away.  Its like the motor stumbles and a squeak comes out of it.

could it be that when the idle gets down that low, the vibrations increase, causing the front motor mount rubber to squeak?

[kojack]

It really sounds like its coming from the intake.....I have a video but no way to post it.

[Unbalanced]

Post your video on YouTube then put the link here    

[kojack]

Ok,  Another update.  I watched the video and how everything works.  I now have cold/hot idle issues fixed besides my hot idle is a little low for my liking but that's ok.  I can adjust that easy.   Next up is the plug wires to see if that cures the sumple/hesitation etc.  Once I get the plug wires on I will report back.  I will also try to get the video posted as well.  Maybe the plug wires will fix up some more of the issues I have.  I know the bike starts and runs better since correctly adjusting the idle. 

[kojack]

I am guessing a lot of my problem is/was the TPS was out of wack.  Its dialed in now and the bike runs much better,  sounds much better and can lope along at 2000 ish rpm.   I am thinking with new plug wires I should be really pleased.  There is less popping on deceleration and less hesitation on acceleration.  I would like to give thanks to people who helped me out and gave me direction.  I now have a better understanding of the MM than both Harley dealerships now.  They are friggin quirky,  but are able to be tuned back to health.  I was never going to carb where I had to pull a choke, warm it up,  then keep it running with choke etc until warm.  She starts cold,  sits at 2 until she is all happy and warmed up.  then idles on the road at 1000 rpm.

Tomorrow is lift the tank, and install the wires.   Hopfully with a little more tuning in the PCIII,  I shall have it pretty well dialed by weeks end.

[Ironhorse]

There is less popping on deceleration

You may have already done this, but one thing you may want to do to get rid of the rest of the decel popping is check for exhaust leaks. Those are as notorious as intake leaks and even the slightest leak can affect the way it runs.

Here's what I do. Using a long neck Bic clicker, I start from the front and work back. With the bike running at idle, I work the flame all around the flanges and joints. Start from the head and work to the muffler. If at any time the flame dances, that means you have a leak there. If you are lucky all you need do is tighten down the clamps and bolts.

Good luck and I admire your doggedness in problem solving. My old MM bike drove me nuts. In the end I had to install the Zippers Thundermax kit. I should have went with a carb as it would have been cheaper.

[kojack]

I am planning to change out the exhaust to the fullsac header and some mufflers over this winter.  I am going to take it on a good shake down run today and hopefully it will be running much better.

[kojack]

Everytime I add something,  it keeps running better.  I added some more fuel in the low and mid range and installed the plug wires today.  I still have a hiccup every so often while crusing at around 2000-2200 rpm,  higher and its fine.  baffling to me really.  Maybe the crank sensor?  Other than that its running smooth.  I am changing the fluids tomorrow and get amsoil in there.  WIll make a big difference to smoothness as well.