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[kojack]

My bike ran like crap before installing my PCIII.   after it runs smooth but has a misfire and its not crisp when cracking throttle,  it has a big delay and a misfire.   Any other items or ideas on how to fix this?  I know everyone will say its the MM.  but there are many many MM bikes running fine.

[skratch]

you have a problem.  and you've just added another layer to try and troubleshoot.  you shouldn't be adding tuners/tunes unless your bike is running properly in the first place.  i would remove the tuner (for now) and find out what is making your bike run poorly to start, then once you get that sorted, you can add your tuner back in.

your last statement, '...but there are many mm bikes running fine' is like saying, 'it can't be my lifters, there are many cvo's out there without lifter problems'. 

[kojack]

I didn't say it can't be.   I said,  I don't want to hear "its a MM bike.  its going to run like a pile."  There is a big difference.   Anything you can think of to chase? 

[tdkkart]

I didn't say it can't be.   I said,  I don't want to hear "its a MM bike.  its going to run like a pile."  There is a big difference.   Anything you can think of to chase?

 I owned a M-M bike, it ran fine with and without the PCIII, with and without engine mods.  There's some issues with them, but they are capable of running just fine.

#1. Any time they start to act up the first thing to do is to disconnect the battery or pull the ECM fuse for 30 minutes.

#2. There's a specific proceedure for recalibrating the base throttle position in the ECM, and also for checking and setting the Throttle Position Sensor voltage. These are key settings. I'll look to see if I can find them.

3. Check the fuel injector wiring up under the tank, thee were some bikes that had issues with damaged wiring. 

4. Check for intake leaks.

I had some info, I will look and get back with you.

If all else fails, convert it to carb. 
Yes, mine ran very well injected, but I always felt like I was leaving something on the table.
I converted it to carb and it finally really ran the way it was supposed to.

[Twolanerider]

My bike ran like crap before installing my PCIII.   after it runs smooth but has a misfire and its not crisp when cracking throttle,  it has a big delay and a misfire.   Any other items or ideas on how to fix this?  I know everyone will say its the MM.  but there are many many MM bikes running fine.

Thought I remembered you changing the wires when the discussion of potential tuners and it running badly first came up when you joined us here?  If not do that.  Old wires, just like on a car, can break down under a load.  Mileage notwithstanding.  And if they are still the stock wires they are certainly old enough to be considered a potential source of problem.  Also be 100% sure you've got no vacuum leaks at any of the sensor gaskets or intake seals.  Even the slightest vacuum leak will give a Marelli bike fits.

If you've not done them throw plugs and wires at it "just because."  They are too cheap and easy not to eliminate as a source of potential problem.  You've still got the original problem you've always had, however, of the puppy chasing its tail.

You're trying to load a tune that matches you have no clue what.  The Power Commander III is a fine tool for someone who can track their responses on a dyno and feel what is changing in real time.  But if you're just loading and then (maybe) swapping data in cells it's just masturb-tuning.  It may feel good while you're doing it but you still little chance of really scoring anywhere but in your own mind.

Plugs and wires, just because.  If it's cutting out under a load maybe a fuel filter for the same reason, and check the fuel line in the tank for leakage under pressure.  Other things that can cause driveability problems and often not throw a code are crank position sensors and cam position sensors.  So if you have no clue what the problem might be and no way nor willingness to actually diagnose those are other parts to potentially just throw at it. 

You've written before that the engine was "built" but with no real idea as to how.  If that's still the case how did you have any clue what PCIII map to load?  Do you know if the old Marelli version of the race tuner had ever been used to dial it in previously?  If so that changed the base map in the ECM so any overlay you'd load in the Power Commander would still be wrong.

Do the cheap and obvious stuff.  Maybe you'll get lucky and, voila, it'll suddenly start running better.  If so you declare personal brilliance and move on.  If not, however, that puppy will still just keep chasing its tail with tuners and changes thereto.  I know you've written that a dyno was too far away to get to.  That distance, however, may end up being precisely the number of kilometers it will eventually take to make the bike run right.

[kojack]

OK, 


I have to break out my service manual.  I know exactly whats in my motor now.   When I got it first,  I had no clue.   It came with a PCIII serial that make the bike run like complete chit.  As it stands now,  it does feel like an electrical problem.  I am going to install new spark plug wires,  changed the plugs yesterday.  The vacuum leaks sound like a possibility. 

I do believe it's something very small and dumb causing this problem.   I never rode the bike for awhile as I lost interest in it.  But have found a new love for it on the highways.  Speaking of which,  on the highway it runs fantastic.  TOP end she rips.  and seems to have the crisp TR that I am chasing.  However,  low end,  and idle is an issue.   We were on a ride the other day,  and one of my buddies on his new yammie stryker and I had a little toot.   He was max'ed and I just blew by him like he was stopped.  And I am not far off my "brothers" Supercharged street glide on top either.   I know there is HP locked away in my bike.  Once I get the low end figured out,  its going to be a great ride.   I know it's something stupid.   

My motor has the following.   ported heads (don't know by who)(that is the mystery I have with my motor,  the local Harley shop said it looked to be a professional job.  But, ultimately, Until I look myself, I won't know. 211 screamin eagle cams, PC III USB, pro pipe 2-1, stage 2 se intake judging from the parts on the bike.  As I said earlier as well,  the bike does run much better than without the PC,  so I am figuring I have the tune pretty close.  Dyno yes,  is the best way to the 100 percent out of your bike,  but I have tuned many bikes, sleds etc,  none with MM fuel injection however,  and I have gotten very close all the way around. 

[Twolanerider]

I have to break out my service manual.  I know exactly whats in my motor now.   

Cool.  Sounds like you are a lot farther along than when the bike was being discussed right after you'd gotten it.  So glad you got more details on the engine.

If the wires are original change them.  Just because.  Age is a factor there and they're too cheap to have any concern over.  I have, very rarely, seen old coils misbehave in a way somewhat like you're describing also.  Definitely double check anyplace you might have a vac leak too.

If the issue you're describing now seems to expand to other engine ranges think about the fuel filter and the line in the tank.  If you've got a shop around you that can clean injectors that's a consideration too. 

Fortunately there aren't that many pieces to these systems and none are too difficult to get to.

[kojack]

Yeah,  that's happening when I can take the intake off my bike.  The 3 bolts that hold my filter on are stripped and I have new ones ordered I pick them up on Saturday.  I was talking to my friend who is also a Harley mechanic as well.  He said crank sensor could be the culprit as well.  I will get through this and make it run correctly.  But I can't get any codes.  my button does not work in the speedo.

[Twolanerider]

Yeah,  that's happening when I can take the intake off my bike.  The 3 bolts that hold my filter on are stripped and I have new ones ordered I pick them up on Saturday.  I was talking to my friend who is also a Harley mechanic as well.  He said crank sensor could be the culprit as well.  I will get through this and make it run correctly.  But I can't get any codes.  my button does not work in the speedo.

I'm someone who will at least potentially suspect a crank position sensor of anything up to and including a flat tire on the car parked next me.  They'll more often than not never throw a code.  They will, however, more often just shut the bike the down.  Sometimes (though not always) to start right back up.  So while I'd not discount anything a CPS wouldn't be my first guess based on your descriptions.  It is, however, easy and relatively inexpensive to just swap.  So if you're just parts swapping; hey, it's as good as anything else.  Don't forget that your bike also still has the cam position sensor that the later bikes do not.  The cam sensor was even more problematic than the crank sensor.

What 3 bolts are you describing to hold the filter in place?  The pump itself is held to the housing with straps and the filter is held to the housing with a clip.  So not sure what bolts you might be concerned with or how they might bother things?

[tdkkart]

Don't forget that your bike also still has the cam position sensor that the later bikes do not.  The cam sensor was even more problematic than the crank sensor.

What 3 bolts are you describing to hold the filter in place?  The pump itself is held to the housing with straps and the filter is held to the housing with a clip.  So not sure what bolts you might be concerned with or how they might bother things?

He may or may not have a cam sensor, I had a 2001 Wide Glide that had one, had a 2001 Ultra Classic that didn't ever have one.

He's talking about the 3 bolts that hold his air filter on. Being an SE, it probably has those damn'd button head allens, or torx, holding the SE filter on. Unless you leave them only finger tight they hardly ever come out without a fight.

I like button heads, as long as someone else is taking them apart next time.

[kojack]

Mine has the screamin eagle stage 2 intake,  so it's a K&N filter mounted to some sort of cage and the football (ewwww) mounts onto that.  Pretty well I am going to get this bugger running right some how.  might be a complete engine swap,  I don't know.  I am going to change all the normal "wear" items that has been discussed,  cam position, crank position sensor, I should get a injector cleaner tossed in the tank while I am at it too.  and clean the tb as well.

[bbass]

My bike ran like crap before installing my PCIII.   after it runs smooth but has a misfire and its not crisp when cracking throttle,  it has a big delay and a misfire.   Any other items or ideas on how to fix this?  I know everyone will say its the MM.  but there are many many MM bikes running fine.

You may also want perform the wiggle test on the injector wires.

[kojack]

Is the injector wires a common source of hiccups?  I just did the ignition off/on code read,  but sheeesh,  I cannot count that fast.   There are a bunch of codes in there tho.

[kojack]

Ok,  a little more playing around I notice the hesitation while in netural is from idle to 2500/2700 rpm when just rappin on it.  Once you crank it to 3k its pretty crisp if you get what I am saying,  there is a good delay and studder when twisting the throttle until about 2500 or so.  but if you keep on her and crank it about 3 grand it is working somewhat as it should.   Any closer to diagnosis there?

[Twolanerider]

Is the injector wires a common source of hiccups?  I just did the ignition off/on code read,  but sheeesh,  I cannot count that fast.   There are a bunch of codes in there tho.

Terribly common?  No.  Does it happen?  Yes.  Not just on the Marelli bikes either.  Breakage or chafing beneath the tank where the injector pigtails attach is where you'll commonly find an issue if it's going to happen.

Ok,  a little more playing around I notice the hesitation while in netural is from idle to 2500/2700 rpm when just rappin on it.  Once you crank it to 3k its pretty crisp if you get what I am saying,  there is a good delay and studder when twisting the throttle until about 2500 or so.  but if you keep on her and crank it about 3 grand it is working somewhat as it should.   Any closer to diagnosis there?

KJ, not trying to rain on your parade here but you're way past "playing around" here.  You've been dealing with the same general issues for what, a year or so now?  A parade of options for just shotgunning it have been shared and discussed (though you might replace every single part and still have a problem since you've really no idea if the issue a tuning map problem or a weak/bad part).   More diagnostic approaches have also been discussed.  Now you're saying there are a "bunch" of codes too.

So pick an approach.

Do what is necessary to pull the codes and work from there.

or

Just start swapping parts one at a time and hope something makes it better.

or

Actually get it tuned and hope that makes it better.



Don't get me wrong; I'd love to pop in here and read that the old beast is now running like a CVO site moderator toward a politically inclined thread.  But you're not going to get there just yanking the throttle and listening for "something."

If it were me I would:   Pull the codes (no matter how tedious that was).  Study and review those codes and then (if necessary) ask here what that combination of codes might suggest.  I'd then change the potentially 15 year old plug wires and whatever else was suggested by the codes.  I'd then hope to have scored a beneficial differences and, if I had, finally deal with getting the tuning map dialed in.  But until I had something planned out and something accomplished everything else would be off the table.  No upgrades nor other changes that would just add more variables to the mix.  At some point it's time to stop turning the throttle and start turning the tools.

You might choose to go at it a different way.  Just start swapping parts until something clicks in your favor.  But however you do it doing something else has to be a next step.  Absolute best of luck getting it sorted; seriously.  Share the insights or questions as you go through whatever steps you choose to go through.  But it's time to start steppin' my friend.  Make that bitch run right.