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Author Topic: New 114 liquid cooled engine  (Read 26895 times)

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bdcpv

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New 114 liquid cooled engine
« on: August 15, 2016, 06:35:35 AM »

it seems real... In days we will have the 107 8 valves and 114 8 valves liquid cooled revelead!

And it seems to be the end of twincam era!
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Fullsac Performance

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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2016, 09:25:47 AM »

it seems real... In days we will have the 107 8 valves and 114 8 valves liquid cooled revelead!

And it seems to be the end of twincam era!

Its more than real. I will be getting the first 107 delivered to my dealer.
It's going straight to the dyno room. Then it gets all tore apart. I can hardly wait!  :2vrolijk_21:

I might share a few pics?

SG
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2016, 09:47:54 AM »

Will be very interesting to follow your take Steve.

JW
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2016, 10:23:53 AM »

Rumor has the new engine to be substantially quieter than the previous clatter box. It will be a nice change to ride something far from home that doesn't
sound like its going to fly apart at any moment.

SG
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2016, 10:38:15 AM »

Can't wait
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Bill

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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2016, 10:50:43 AM »

The way Harley Beta tests things lately, I'll wait until about 2020 to try one. Wonder how they will effect the resale of the 103/110's? Guess it will be determined by how many growing pains the new power plant has. It will be interesting.
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2016, 10:53:26 AM »

Its more than real. I will be getting the first 107 delivered to my dealer.
It's going straight to the dyno room. Then it gets all tore apart. I can hardly wait!  :2vrolijk_21:

I might share a few pics?

SG

New headpipe design from the Mo Co on the MKE 8's ?
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2016, 11:48:01 AM »

Round cat, looks to be tucked in tighter to the frame, maybe a little deeper into the centerline of the engine to accommodate the port sitting between the two valves. May take an angle change to the flange surface.
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2016, 01:41:34 PM »

Still only partial water cooled head as the present models, is what I have been told. Not a total water cooled engine.
New frames and suspension coming out next next year.
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2016, 01:47:15 PM »

Still only partial water cooled head as the present models, is what I have been told. Not a total water cooled engine.
New frames and suspension coming out next next year.
With the same crappy air shocks I'm sure. :-\
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2016, 02:33:59 PM »

Rumor has the new engine to be substantially quieter than the previous clatter box. It will be a nice change to ride something far from home that doesn't
sound like its going to fly apart at any moment.

SG

Would be cool to only hear the exhaust while riding.
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2016, 06:50:17 PM »

Still only partial water cooled head as the present models, is what I have been told. Not a total water cooled engine.
New frames and suspension coming out next next year.

Surely not a new Touring frame already next year?
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2016, 07:06:36 PM »


Rumor has the new engine to be substantially quieter than the previous clatter box.



I don't understand.  How can an engine self-destruct quietly?  Sure it's still a Harley motor?
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2016, 07:17:11 PM »


I don't understand.  How can an engine self-destruct quietly?  Sure it's still a Harley motor?

 8)
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2016, 07:38:16 PM »

The real winner here is Vance & Hines Pro-Stock Drag Bike guys. NHRA took away their superior 4 valve heads a couple years ago and made them use 2 valve,  now they are going to be on stock bikes. Bound to be some way to get them legalized again.
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2016, 08:55:11 PM »

watching this
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2016, 09:58:47 PM »

Its more than real. I will be getting the first 107 delivered to my dealer.
It's going straight to the dyno room. Then it gets all tore apart. I can hardly wait!  :2vrolijk_21:

I might share a few pics?

SG
hope you can make a pipe for this 8 valve job so that it will still sound like a harley, from the automotive world, the more valves, the deep tone is gone...it will be interesting
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Fullsac Performance

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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2016, 08:54:38 AM »

hope you can make a pipe for this 8 valve job so that it will still sound like a harley, from the automotive world, the more valves, the deep tone is gone...it will be interesting

We will be making a new headpipe and mufflers ASAP!  :2vrolijk_21:
I'm not riding my new 8 valve with stock exhaust, not even once.
Someone might think I was on an Eaglerider.

SG
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2016, 09:48:00 AM »

Found a pic  :P
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2016, 09:55:06 AM »

Spy photos are everywhere!

SG
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ultrafxr

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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2016, 10:35:55 AM »

Found this interesting patent concerning pushrod operating multiple valves and some of the inherent problems:

https://search.rpxcorp.com/pat/US7424876B2

Specifically some of the problems this patent claims to address are:
Current four-valve-per-cylinder pushrod engines include
two intake valves and two exhaust valves for each cylinder.
Each pair of valves is operated in tandem by a bridged valvetrain
that includes a camshaft-driven cam follower (also
referred to as a tappet or lifter) connected by a single pushrod
to a rocker arm that drives a bridge coupled to the pair of
valves (intake or exhaust). This bridged valvetrain is a cost- 30
efficient design that achieves acceptable performance for
many applications, although operation of the two bridged
valves is not precisely synchronized because the force exerted
on the bridge can not be perfectly balanced between the
valves, the valves may have slightly different spring forces, 35
and the valve components may experience slightly different
wear. This may result in one valve opening late and/or one
valve may seat first while closing causing the other valve to
seat late with a higher than intended velocity. In addition,
valve stem tips are edge loaded by the bridge with higher 40
stresses resulting in higher rates of wear and potential noise,
vibration, and harshness (NVH) concerns.

It will be interesting to see exactly how the moco addresses these potential problems - hopefully better than they did with the twinkie and expecially its 110 variation.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2016, 10:58:45 AM by ultrafxr »
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HarleyJeffOregon

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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2016, 10:46:39 AM »

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ultrafxr

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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2016, 10:57:31 AM »

LMAO!!!!
For sure.  Not sure which lawnmower this was from.
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NORSEMAN

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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2016, 12:45:19 PM »

« Last Edit: August 16, 2016, 12:51:16 PM by NORSEMAN »
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2016, 04:33:14 PM »

 The rumor at my dealer is that the new 107 will have only one camshaft, and the CVO's will still be 110 inches. Anyone else heard that? CAHDBIKER


Rumor has the new engine to be substantially quieter than the previous clatter box. It will be a nice change to ride something far from home that doesn't
sound like its going to fly apart at any moment.

SG
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NORSEMAN

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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2016, 04:42:36 PM »

114 cubic inch CVO Street Glide for your viewing pleasure.  Single cam, obviously, but the rest is purely conjecture at this point.
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2016, 08:55:37 PM »

Surely not a new Touring frame already next year?

We will be doing Demo rides at the Harley shop Saturday and Sunday of the Maggie Valley GTG.
Stop over try a few!


SBB


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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2016, 11:20:16 AM »

Found this interesting patent concerning pushrod operating multiple valves and some of the inherent problems:

https://search.rpxcorp.com/pat/US7424876B2

Specifically some of the problems this patent claims to address are:
Current four-valve-per-cylinder pushrod engines include
two intake valves and two exhaust valves for each cylinder.
Each pair of valves is operated in tandem by a bridged valvetrain
that includes a camshaft-driven cam follower (also
referred to as a tappet or lifter) connected by a single pushrod
to a rocker arm that drives a bridge coupled to the pair of
valves (intake or exhaust). This bridged valvetrain is a cost- 30
efficient design that achieves acceptable performance for
many applications, although operation of the two bridged
valves is not precisely synchronized because the force exerted
on the bridge can not be perfectly balanced between the
valves, the valves may have slightly different spring forces, 35
and the valve components may experience slightly different
wear. This may result in one valve opening late and/or one
valve may seat first while closing causing the other valve to
seat late with a higher than intended velocity. In addition,
valve stem tips are edge loaded by the bridge with higher 40
stresses resulting in higher rates of wear and potential noise,
vibration, and harshness (NVH) concerns.

It will be interesting to see exactly how the moco addresses these potential problems - hopefully better than they did with the twinkie and expecially its 110 variation.

Lots of diesel motors use a single lifter and pushrod to activate two valves.  Some with more success than others, admittedly.
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #29 on: August 17, 2016, 11:50:45 AM »

We will be doing Demo rides at the Harley shop Saturday and Sunday of the Maggie Valley GTG.
Stop over try a few!


SBB



Any chance you can pull some strings and get us at least a private viewing of the new bikes on Fri evening?
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #30 on: August 17, 2016, 01:26:11 PM »

We will be doing Demo rides at the Harley shop Saturday and Sunday of the Maggie Valley GTG.
Stop over try a few!


SBB





That's a good place for you and the HD reps sir.

Will kool-aid be served?


TN
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SBB

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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #31 on: August 17, 2016, 09:09:28 PM »

That's a good place for you and the HD reps sir.

Will kool-aid be served?


TN

Nope,  no money.
Kool-Aid isn't in the budget since the 2017 Duct Tape experimental hand grips were such a loser.
As the reps told me, not every idea is a winner.
Maybe 2018.

SBB



 
« Last Edit: August 17, 2016, 09:13:56 PM by SBB »
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #32 on: August 17, 2016, 09:13:20 PM »

Any chance you can pull some strings and get us at least a private viewing of the new bikes on Fri evening?

I'll check.
Hope you are getting better!

 :2vrolijk_21:

SBB


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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #33 on: August 17, 2016, 09:13:53 PM »

I'll check.
Hope you are getting better!

 :2vrolijk_21:

SBB



Healing up. Thank you sir.
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #34 on: August 17, 2016, 09:15:34 PM »

Healing up. Thank you sir.

I have been keeping up with your status/recovery.
Best of luck.

SBB


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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2016, 01:28:37 PM »

I would bet that the lifters are back to a EVO style as you run out of room ... Rocker ratio will be effected .. Look forward to it, that and making a few new cams  :2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21:
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2016, 03:04:26 AM »

Cant wait to see what you Builders/Tuners can do.

One thing that caught my eye was the description of a new low profile AC, the current CVO Airator has already been proven to restrict flow, I could be wrong but going thinner (Low profile) will only make it worse.  Want to buy stock in Heavy breather AC as I think their will be a run on them for 114+ builds.

Mr. Steve at Fullsac as you are designing your new head pipes, if I read your post right you are using the 107 as your base, will the their be enough flow for the 114 especially when folks add head & TB work, and new cams?
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #37 on: August 26, 2016, 07:31:59 AM »

Cant wait to see what you Builders/Tuners can do.

One thing that caught my eye was the description of a new low profile AC, the current CVO Airator has already been proven to restrict flow, I could be wrong but going thinner (Low profile) will only make it worse.  Want to buy stock in Heavy breather AC as I think their will be a run on them for 114+ builds.

Mr. Steve at Fullsac as you are designing your new head pipes, if I read your post right you are using the 107 as your base, will the their be enough flow for the 114 especially when folks add head & TB work, and new cams?

I know the ventilator restricts air flow so, on a strong build it restricts power.  Changed to a Adgitor hi flow.  Its better, but still restricts power compared to Heavy Breather.  Steve posted http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=109187.0  And you can see my 138 HP / 140 TQ build and my friends identical build with a heavy Breather.  He has 3 more HP and 5 more torque
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #38 on: August 26, 2016, 09:01:00 AM »

I would bet that the lifters are back to a EVO style as you run out of room ... Rocker ratio will be effected .. Look forward to it, that and making a few new cams  :2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21:

Found a new model parts list and it appears they have gone back to the "C" lifter in the CVO engine.  Hopefully they fixed the internals of that lifter so they don't continue to bleed down faster than a Saturday night gunshot victim in Chicago.

Jerry
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #39 on: August 26, 2016, 09:09:55 AM »

Found a new model parts list and it appears they have gone back to the "C" lifter in the CVO engine.  Hopefully they fixed the internals of that lifter so they don't continue to bleed down faster than a Saturday night gunshot victim in Chicago.

Jerry

There are many intriguing ideas and design changes to the new Milwaukee 8 engine.  But as many of us have painfully and expensively experienced, reliability all comes down to the execution of the new designs.  Of course, this could be a typo or mistake in the new model parts list, but assuming it's not, it's certainly a puzzling lifter choice.  Not having seen any drawings of this new motor, I am surprised an existing lifter design would even fit.  And one would assume if they changed the lifter internals (design or tolerances) it would have a new part number designation.  I am sure there will more than a few growing pains with the new motor, and I am happy to sit on the sidelines and watch as time passes and others figure it out.



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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #40 on: August 28, 2016, 05:11:38 AM »

A major change to the power plant like this needs validation. I wonder how this engine was tested and under what conditions. I would almost bet there were some hard looks for ease of manufacturing and cost reduction as well during design. I personally will not be standing in line to purchase the new platform until the power plant has been proven for durability/reliability.
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #41 on: August 28, 2016, 08:03:06 AM »

MSRP is only 1 grand difference between a 16 CVO and a 17 CVO limited. For that 1 grand you get the new suspension and bigger, quieter, more powerful, cooler and narrow engine,. That is a lot of upgrades for 1 grand! BUT I am leery of the testing that was or was not completed on this new engine design.

What I find most odd is that Harley does not say in any of the advertising anything about miles and miles of real world testing and blah blah blah. Or proven at the track or anything about testing.
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #42 on: August 28, 2016, 08:24:58 AM »

MSRP is only 1 grand difference between a 16 CVO and a 17 CVO limited. For that 1 grand you get the new suspension and bigger, quieter, more powerful, cooler and narrow engine,. That is a lot of upgrades for 1 grand! BUT I am leery of the testing that was or was not completed on this new engine design.

What I find most odd is that Harley does not say in any of the advertising anything about miles and miles of real world testing and blah blah blah. Or proven at the track or anything about testing.
That 1 grand increase is sweetened for the moco because they deleted the CB.  For those who want a CB I'll be another grand would be required for the parts and install.

Not going to wade back through all the moco hype but I think I recall on one of the videos something about over a million miles of testing on the new engine.  Don't know if that is static. on the track, one the road or a combo.  And maybe I'm remembering that all wrong.  Maybe it was on the '07 110" motor that had been testing and proven bulletproof.
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #43 on: August 28, 2016, 08:35:47 AM »

That 1 grand increase is sweetened for the moco because they deleted the CB.  For those who want a CB I'll be another grand would be required for the parts and install.

Not going to wade back through all the moco hype but I think I recall on one of the videos something about over a million miles of testing on the new engine.  Don't know if that is static. on the track, one the road or a combo.  And maybe I'm remembering that all wrong.  Maybe it was on the '07 110" motor that had been testing and proven bulletproof.

The CVO limited still has the CB.
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #44 on: August 28, 2016, 09:01:25 AM »

The CVO limited still has the CB.
Correct. I was referring to the non-CVOs. My bad.


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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #45 on: August 28, 2016, 10:18:21 AM »

That 1 grand increase is sweetened for the moco because they deleted the CB.  For those who want a CB I'll be another grand would be required for the parts and install.

Not going to wade back through all the moco hype but I think I recall on one of the videos something about over a million miles of testing on the new engine.  Don't know if that is static. on the track, one the road or a combo.  And maybe I'm remembering that all wrong.  Maybe it was on the '07 110" motor that had been testing and proven bulletproof.

It's a meaningless claim, just like the same claim was for the Twin Cam.  Remember all the major issues on the early Twin Cams, like cam bearing failures, that somehow never showed up in those millions of miles of "testing"?  And how about the major issues with the 2006/2007 introduction of the new and unimproved Twin Cam that supposedly underwent a ton of testing AND a full year of sales in Dyna's before being thrust upon the rest in 2007? 

I sincerely hope the MoCo has finally become serious and truly addressed all the customer concerns, and that this new engine is everything they claim and more.  But I'm not your average Kool-Aid drinker, and while I'm not from Missouri I still don't take anything for granted but instead insist they "show me".  Here's hoping they've finally done it right.

Jerry
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #46 on: August 28, 2016, 10:34:50 AM »

Back in the day you got paid to be a Beta Tester and got the product for free for your troubles. Sign me up, but it won't be garaged until its proven to be worthy.
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #47 on: August 28, 2016, 10:39:29 AM »

It's a meaningless claim, just like the same claim was for the Twin Cam.  Remember all the major issues on the early Twin Cams, like cam bearing failures, that somehow never showed up in those millions of miles of "testing"?  And how about the major issues with the 2006/2007 introduction of the new and unimproved Twin Cam that supposedly underwent a ton of testing AND a full year of sales in Dyna's before being thrust upon the rest in 2007? 

I sincerely hope the MoCo has finally become serious and truly addressed all the customer concerns, and that this new engine is everything they claim and more.  But I'm not your average Kool-Aid drinker, and while I'm not from Missouri I still don't take anything for granted but instead insist they "show me".  Here's hoping they've finally done it right.

Jerry

Dang, everyone I spoke to about my 2007 FLHRSE3 problems said that it was the first they heard about said problems, I'm referring to dealership, straight from dealer principal, the MOCO finest customer service reps, including two supervisors, to the illustrious HD reps that we were privileged with their attendance at two CVO GTG's.
I know all my ideas aren't winners but I have been riding since the late sixties and feel I can comment about some real world experiences.

Now with the new engine and the thought of me being a beta tester on my dime..........................negative. I do however wish everyone the best of luck on the new HD's and hope they can stand up to the test of time, or real world riding.

Kind Regards

TN


Correction; I did receive several apologies from certain HD employees and they did admit there were certain failures on the introductory of the 110" motor after my relentless badgering. Improved failure rate now but.......

I do hope this new motor proves to be a workhorse for everyone involved. Sincerely
« Last Edit: August 28, 2016, 12:35:46 PM by TN »
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #48 on: August 28, 2016, 11:40:53 AM »

It's a meaningless claim, just like the same claim was for the Twin Cam.  Remember all the major issues on the early Twin Cams, like cam bearing failures, that somehow never showed up in those millions of miles of "testing"?  And how about the major issues with the 2006/2007 introduction of the new and unimproved Twin Cam that supposedly underwent a ton of testing AND a full year of sales in Dyna's before being thrust upon the rest in 2007? 

I sincerely hope the MoCo has finally become serious and truly addressed all the customer concerns, and that this new engine is everything they claim and more.  But I'm not your average Kool-Aid drinker, and while I'm not from Missouri I still don't take anything for granted but instead insist they "show me".  Here's hoping they've finally done it right.

Jerry
Right you are.  I too take no comfort in any of the testing done to correlate with real world experiences by owners.  There were so many issues with the twin cam and then specifically to the 110s.  Let's see if I can recall:  cam bearing failure which you mentioned, the spring driven cam chain tensioners, scissoring crankshafts, an abortion of the early six speed trannys due to too tall gearing and 5th gear whine due to straight cut gears.  Then the 110s:  shifting cylinder liners, leaking head gaskets, failing ACRs, valve guides falling out.  My oh my all that testing (by us beta testers) really did pay off and finally allowed the moco to discover just how bad their underengineered designs and parts really were.  In fact I recall receiving a check from a class action settlement on my 110.  Even though this new motor looks really good on paper since I really am from Missouri I think I'll let it sort itself out and see if it does all it promises.   :2vrolijk_21:
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #49 on: August 28, 2016, 02:45:35 PM »

I recall the figure of "1.5 million miles" testing on this new engine.  That's got to be cumulative, through all design iterations from the very start.  Even if it was 100k miles on the as-now-produced version, and it was only on 10 of them, that's only 10k miles per.  Anybody can put together a 10k mile engine...  And hopefully there were more than 10 engines being road tested.  Poor H-D.  They're damned if they do and damned if they don't.
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #50 on: August 29, 2016, 11:51:08 AM »

you need to look up how the testing is done. Many of it is done in a way that it simulates that many miles.. Like endurance testing , so the engine is run harder for long periods and that = X amount of miles in some formula that the manufacture comes up with.. This is not controlled by any one so they can really tell you what ever they want . 

Simple math 60 MPH X 24 hours equals 1440  so lets say they have 10 bikes  that only comes up to 14400 per say running 24 hours a day it would take them 694.4 days to get 1 million miles thats what like 1.9 years ..  its run on a machine nothing more and they beat the crap out of and tell you well that 24 hour ride equals 25,000 miles as we had it hot, heavy load  and yada yada as they load the dyno down to simulate driving .. its there bike they test it how they want and tell you what they want..

Testing cells can be heated, cooled to crazy temps   and run what ever pressure in the booth you want..  Tucson has a facility like that . You want it to be -30 ok no issues you want 135 sure , 10,000 feet ok they vac the room down as well

in the end I feel like most people do the testing is not done and without parts being mass produced you have bikes that are hand built and each part is inspected as well.. Now if one could buy a blue printed bike that would be very nice..  :D :D
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #51 on: September 16, 2016, 04:18:19 PM »

Its sad.....I love my Harley's, but I don't trust a word that comes out of the Motor Co's mouth when they start talking about testing, or results. I quess that qualifies me as a kool aid drinker :-\. No other type of vehicle would I buy, be it a car, boat, or even a bicycle, if the company had the track record HD has with problems and new releases. But I keep buying them, I've rode Victory's, Honda's, Indian's, even a BMW K1600, nothing had the soul of a Harley. Some intangible that I only feel on a Harley, but its there.
Damn...sounds like I need a shrink!!!! ??? ??? 
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #52 on: September 16, 2016, 06:38:09 PM »

In addition to GMRs post:

“Testing” means different things to different people.  It may or may not mean someone actually rides a vehicle “X” number of miles or until it breaks.  The company I retired from (and I love them and hope the pension continues to be funded forever) does a LOT of analytical testing.  They also do physical testing until the article is at 150% of design strength.  Analytical testing uses mathematical formulas that include Mean Time Between Failures (MTBF).  Some parts fail before the design target and some after.  In the business world you can’t afford to make every part 100% fail-free.  The bean counters would make the price of the end item product prohibitive.  The CVO we buy is a very pretty compromise.  Or, we can choose to buy a bike with “no soul”.  You can put down your money and take your chances.
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #53 on: September 18, 2016, 10:29:44 AM »

In addition to GMRs post:

“Testing” means different things to different people.  It may or may not mean someone actually rides a vehicle “X” number of miles or until it breaks.  The company I retired from (and I love them and hope the pension continues to be funded forever) does a LOT of analytical testing.  They also do physical testing until the article is at 150% of design strength.  Analytical testing uses mathematical formulas that include Mean Time Between Failures (MTBF).  Some parts fail before the design target and some after.  In the business world you can’t afford to make every part 100% fail-free.  The bean counters would make the price of the end item product prohibitive.  The CVO we buy is a very pretty compromise.  Or, we can choose to buy a bike with “no soul”.  You can put down your money and take your chances.

Well said Jimmy.   :2vrolijk_21: 
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #54 on: September 18, 2016, 11:06:05 AM »

Same Cool Aid, but I thank the MoCo for changing the flavors once in a while.  :drink:
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #55 on: October 16, 2016, 02:04:37 PM »

All the negativity is really sad. 

I have a 3 week old 2017 CVO SG with 117 Stage 3 Kit and V&H Power Duals a Hi Output muffs on order.  Pipes are supposed to ship in November.

In my opinion, the M8 114 and suspension and other etc refinements are spot on.  The 114 stock M8 uns as good or better than my previous '15 CVO RG with 117 kit, Andrews Cams, and tune by one of the best tuners in Dallas area.

Can't wait to see what the HD 117 kit and V&H pipes with a really good tune will produce.

Stock, the 114 has gobs of TQ starting early in 2k RPM range and doesn't let up.  Just seat of the pants analysis.   It's the tune profile that matters - not peak numbers.   I want early high TQ that stays there throughout majority of RPM range.

Also, the bike handles dramatically better than my 2015.   Huge improvement.

The "cool aid" tastes good.  But it's real.   Just my humble Texas opinion.

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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #56 on: October 16, 2016, 05:29:46 PM »

All the negativity is really sad. 

I have a 3 week old 2017 CVO SG with 117 Stage 3 Kit and V&H Power Duals a Hi Output muffs on order.  Pipes are supposed to ship in November.

In my opinion, the M8 114 and suspension and other etc refinements are spot on.  The 114 stock M8 uns as good or better than my previous '15 CVO RG with 117 kit, Andrews Cams, and tune by one of the best tuners in Dallas area.

Can't wait to see what the HD 117 kit and V&H pipes with a really good tune will produce.

Stock, the 114 has gobs of TQ starting early in 2k RPM range and doesn't let up.  Just seat of the pants analysis.   It's the tune profile that matters - not peak numbers.   I want early high TQ that stays there throughout majority of RPM range.

Also, the bike handles dramatically better than my 2015.   Huge improvement.

The "cool aid" tastes good.  But it's real.   Just my humble Texas opinion.


glad to hear a positive review  which color you get I'm wantin the blue set up like yours
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #57 on: October 16, 2016, 06:28:42 PM »

Orange and black.  😃  The blue is gorgeous.   Congrats!!!

Great bike and awesome motor - don't listen to all the so called expert naysayers.     I've logged 100's of thousands miles (not bar hopping) - real riding over the years.   The Motor Co has definitely made a significant positive step with the '17 lineup.  Embrace it.  Don't knock it down.  Again my humble opinion.

Good luck all.  I'm out.   Rather enjoy riding than listen to all the zero based negative rhetoric.  But if you doubt, go test ride a stock M8 before trashing it.  Talk facts.

Take care and all please ride safe.
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #58 on: October 16, 2016, 08:39:33 PM »

I've logged 100's of thousands miles (not bar hopping) - real riding over the years.
How many of those miles are on the M8?  The testimonials above and on hundreds of other threads are referring to real-world miles on 110s.  They're saying they hope the M8 really is more reliable, but we've been bitten.  Once bitten...

don't listen to all the so called expert naysayers.
go test ride a stock M8 before trashing it.  Talk facts.
So-called experts?  Like the guys who have been through five engines on a three or four y.o. bike?  The ones who had a 2 y.o. bike grenade with 20K miles on it? Or even 7K miles?  They have actual experience, not just a test ride or before-the-first-service ownership.  But that's not the issue--the issue is that HD claimed they had tested the new-improved TC engines and Cruise-Drive transmissions, including the 110s, for millions of miles.  Trouble is, riders on here actually did put road miles on them, and found a huge number of unreliable engines and components.  The proof is not in test riding an M8 for 100 miles, but in owning and riding one for 30K+ miles--often in one or two years.  That is more than talking facts--that's walking facts (sometimes literally; pun intended).
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #59 on: October 16, 2016, 08:43:12 PM »

Orange and black.  😃  The blue is gorgeous.   Congrats!!!

Great bike and awesome motor - don't listen to all the so called expert naysayers.     I've logged 100's of thousands miles (not bar hopping) - real riding over the years.   The Motor Co has definitely made a significant positive step with the '17 lineup.  Embrace it.  Don't knock it down.  Again my humble opinion.

Good luck all.  I'm out.   Rather enjoy riding than listen to all the zero based negative rhetoric.  But if you doubt, go test ride a stock M8 before trashing it.  Talk facts.

Take care and all please ride safe.

Hey two post new guy.  I'm (sincerely) pleased your experience has been so good and your optimism is so profound.  HD's overall history with design and new product development and deployment is generally perceived to be a little less rosy than abject optimism would suggest.  For what it's worth I hope you're right.  The only thing we really know for sure about the new drive train, however, is that we don't know anything yet.  So neither total naysayers nor absolute cheerleaders are the ones I'd pay a lot of attention to while everyone (including HD) waits for real miles to accumulate on the civilian fleet.
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #60 on: October 16, 2016, 09:15:14 PM »

Thanks for saying what most of us are thinking.  Been here for 6 years (i.e. through the majority of the 110 fiasco), but damn, 2 months is enough to know they got it right with the M8, so he's over and out.   Time will tell ...
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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #61 on: October 17, 2016, 08:58:12 AM »

Orange and black.  😃  The blue is gorgeous.   Congrats!!!

Great bike and awesome motor - don't listen to all the so called expert naysayers.     I've logged 100's of thousands miles (not bar hopping) - real riding over the years.   The Motor Co has definitely made a significant positive step with the '17 lineup.  Embrace it.  Don't knock it down.  Again my humble opinion.

Good luck all.  I'm out.   Rather enjoy riding than listen to all the zero based negative rhetoric.  But if you doubt, go test ride a stock M8 before trashing it.  Talk facts.

Take care and all please ride safe.

While I agree with your assessment of the 2017 M8 114" motor and the new improved suspension, I hope it will prove it's self in longevity. 

That said, I log lots of miles, put Just over 45K on my 09 SERG, which at 45K had a failed lifter taking out the cams.  My 12 SERG had 47K on it when traded, two compensators, one regulator.  My 13 SERK has had no issues, but I built the motor at 2K miles with cam, pistons and lifters, then built it again with 15K on it to a 117 with improved parts.  Have 4K on this build.

My 15 SERGU at 2 years and 12 days old and 43K miles on it had a lifter take out the engine, which had to be replaced.

So for the first 2340 miles the 17 SESG is great.  I hope it still lis at 45K miles in two years or so.  I am optimistic as it feels better, but on a many year old design I had failures, so a new design has me wondering.
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2003 Fatboy, real fire paint set,

Wander

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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #62 on: October 20, 2016, 09:03:37 AM »

thanks for a positive feed back, I am excited about getting my new one this spring and hope you continue to ride thousands of more miles .... Enjoy Brother !
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acevtwin

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    • CVO1: 2000 SERG Orange/White/Black sold
    • CVO2: 2004 SEEG Orange / Black Sold
    • CVO3: 2010 CVO FLSTSE Convertible Orange/Black CVO4: 2017 FLHXSE Orange/Black CVO5: 2022 FLTRXSE Orange/Black CVO6: 2010 FLSTSE Orange / Black (Yes, a second one)
Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #63 on: October 20, 2016, 10:15:24 AM »

My new Milwaukee 8 inspires confidence just by eliminating all the top end clatter that my 110 had. That being said, I agree with everyone else, Only time will tell. The new motor feels really good "So Far".
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egultrac

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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #64 on: October 24, 2016, 10:38:19 AM »


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08 FLHTCUSE3, 09 FLHTCUSE4, 15 FLTRUSE, 17 FLHTKSE, 19 FLHTKSE, 19 FLTRXSE.

Mr D

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Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #65 on: October 24, 2016, 11:08:46 AM »



Good video, for years, Jim Egizio has been a well knowledgeable builder/tuner
Good to see him still goin at it  :2vrolijk_21:
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2014 FLHRSE6 Orange/Black
2012 FLHXSE3 Ruby/Typhoon [Sold]
2007 SEUC2 Red/Blk [Sold]
2006 SEUC Haze/Black [Sold]
2005 SEEG Yellow [Sold]
2003 VRSCA [Sold]
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me"
Phil 4:13

FLSTFI Dave

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    • CVO1: 2023 FLTRXSE Whiskey Neat
    • CVO2: 2021 RA1250S Pan America Special
    • CVO3: 2003 Fatboy, 95"quot, S&ampS 570 gear drive cam
Re: New 114 liquid cooled engine
« Reply #66 on: October 25, 2016, 08:30:08 PM »

Nice power gain from just removing the air cleaner.  Wonder how much the heavy breather would help this engine?  It seems obvious a cat less head pipe will really help.
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2023 FLTRXSE Whiskey Neat
2021 RA1250S Pan America Special
2019 FLTRXSE Red Pepper / Magnetic Gray Traded
2018 FLTRXSE Gunship Gray  Traded
2017 FLHXSE  Starfire Black / Atomic Red  Traded
2015 FLTRUSE Abyss Blue / Crushed Saphire Traded
2013 FLHRSE5 Diamond Dust 117  Traded
2012 FLTRXSE White Gold Pearl / Starfire Black  Traded
2009 FLTRSE3 Silver/Titanium  Traded
2003 Fatboy, real fire paint set,
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