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[grc]

That 1 grand increase is sweetened for the moco because they deleted the CB.  For those who want a CB I'll be another grand would be required for the parts and install.

Not going to wade back through all the moco hype but I think I recall on one of the videos something about over a million miles of testing on the new engine.  Don't know if that is static. on the track, one the road or a combo.  And maybe I'm remembering that all wrong.  Maybe it was on the '07 110" motor that had been testing and proven bulletproof.

It's a meaningless claim, just like the same claim was for the Twin Cam.  Remember all the major issues on the early Twin Cams, like cam bearing failures, that somehow never showed up in those millions of miles of "testing"?  And how about the major issues with the 2006/2007 introduction of the new and unimproved Twin Cam that supposedly underwent a ton of testing AND a full year of sales in Dyna's before being thrust upon the rest in 2007? 

I sincerely hope the MoCo has finally become serious and truly addressed all the customer concerns, and that this new engine is everything they claim and more.  But I'm not your average Kool-Aid drinker, and while I'm not from Missouri I still don't take anything for granted but instead insist they "show me".  Here's hoping they've finally done it right.

Jerry

[grandpadoc]

Back in the day you got paid to be a Beta Tester and got the product for free for your troubles. Sign me up, but it won't be garaged until its proven to be worthy.

[TN]

It's a meaningless claim, just like the same claim was for the Twin Cam.  Remember all the major issues on the early Twin Cams, like cam bearing failures, that somehow never showed up in those millions of miles of "testing"?  And how about the major issues with the 2006/2007 introduction of the new and unimproved Twin Cam that supposedly underwent a ton of testing AND a full year of sales in Dyna's before being thrust upon the rest in 2007? 

I sincerely hope the MoCo has finally become serious and truly addressed all the customer concerns, and that this new engine is everything they claim and more.  But I'm not your average Kool-Aid drinker, and while I'm not from Missouri I still don't take anything for granted but instead insist they "show me".  Here's hoping they've finally done it right.

Jerry

Dang, everyone I spoke to about my 2007 FLHRSE3 problems said that it was the first they heard about said problems, I'm referring to dealership, straight from dealer principal, the MOCO finest customer service reps, including two supervisors, to the illustrious HD reps that we were privileged with their attendance at two CVO GTG's.
I know all my ideas aren't winners but I have been riding since the late sixties and feel I can comment about some real world experiences.

Now with the new engine and the thought of me being a beta tester on my dime..........................negative. I do however wish everyone the best of luck on the new HD's and hope they can stand up to the test of time, or real world riding.

Kind Regards

TN


Correction; I did receive several apologies from certain HD employees and they did admit there were certain failures on the introductory of the 110" motor after my relentless badgering. Improved failure rate now but.......

I do hope this new motor proves to be a workhorse for everyone involved. Sincerely

[ultrafxr]

It's a meaningless claim, just like the same claim was for the Twin Cam.  Remember all the major issues on the early Twin Cams, like cam bearing failures, that somehow never showed up in those millions of miles of "testing"?  And how about the major issues with the 2006/2007 introduction of the new and unimproved Twin Cam that supposedly underwent a ton of testing AND a full year of sales in Dyna's before being thrust upon the rest in 2007? 

I sincerely hope the MoCo has finally become serious and truly addressed all the customer concerns, and that this new engine is everything they claim and more.  But I'm not your average Kool-Aid drinker, and while I'm not from Missouri I still don't take anything for granted but instead insist they "show me".  Here's hoping they've finally done it right.

Jerry

Right you are.  I too take no comfort in any of the testing done to correlate with real world experiences by owners.  There were so many issues with the twin cam and then specifically to the 110s.  Let's see if I can recall:  cam bearing failure which you mentioned, the spring driven cam chain tensioners, scissoring crankshafts, an abortion of the early six speed trannys due to too tall gearing and 5th gear whine due to straight cut gears.  Then the 110s:  shifting cylinder liners, leaking head gaskets, failing ACRs, valve guides falling out.  My oh my all that testing (by us beta testers) really did pay off and finally allowed the moco to discover just how bad their underengineered designs and parts really were.  In fact I recall receiving a check from a class action settlement on my 110.  Even though this new motor looks really good on paper since I really am from Missouri I think I'll let it sort itself out and see if it does all it promises.   

[glens]

I recall the figure of "1.5 million miles" testing on this new engine.  That's got to be cumulative, through all design iterations from the very start.  Even if it was 100k miles on the as-now-produced version, and it was only on 10 of them, that's only 10k miles per.  Anybody can put together a 10k mile engine...  And hopefully there were more than 10 engines being road tested.  Poor H-D.  They're damned if they do and damned if they don't.

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

you need to look up how the testing is done. Many of it is done in a way that it simulates that many miles.. Like endurance testing , so the engine is run harder for long periods and that = X amount of miles in some formula that the manufacture comes up with.. This is not controlled by any one so they can really tell you what ever they want . 

Simple math 60 MPH X 24 hours equals 1440  so lets say they have 10 bikes  that only comes up to 14400 per say running 24 hours a day it would take them 694.4 days to get 1 million miles thats what like 1.9 years ..  its run on a machine nothing more and they beat the crap out of and tell you well that 24 hour ride equals 25,000 miles as we had it hot, heavy load  and yada yada as they load the dyno down to simulate driving .. its there bike they test it how they want and tell you what they want..

Testing cells can be heated, cooled to crazy temps   and run what ever pressure in the booth you want..  Tucson has a facility like that . You want it to be -30 ok no issues you want 135 sure , 10,000 feet ok they vac the room down as well

in the end I feel like most people do the testing is not done and without parts being mass produced you have bikes that are hand built and each part is inspected as well.. Now if one could buy a blue printed bike that would be very nice.. 

[Beak Boater]

Its sad.....I love my Harley's, but I don't trust a word that comes out of the Motor Co's mouth when they start talking about testing, or results. I quess that qualifies me as a kool aid drinker . No other type of vehicle would I buy, be it a car, boat, or even a bicycle, if the company had the track record HD has with problems and new releases. But I keep buying them, I've rode Victory's, Honda's, Indian's, even a BMW K1600, nothing had the soul of a Harley. Some intangible that I only feel on a Harley, but its there.
Damn...sounds like I need a shrink!!!!  

[Panhead_Jimmy]

In addition to GMRs post:

“Testing” means different things to different people.  It may or may not mean someone actually rides a vehicle “X” number of miles or until it breaks.  The company I retired from (and I love them and hope the pension continues to be funded forever) does a LOT of analytical testing.  They also do physical testing until the article is at 150% of design strength.  Analytical testing uses mathematical formulas that include Mean Time Between Failures (MTBF).  Some parts fail before the design target and some after.  In the business world you can’t afford to make every part 100% fail-free.  The bean counters would make the price of the end item product prohibitive.  The CVO we buy is a very pretty compromise.  Or, we can choose to buy a bike with “no soul”.  You can put down your money and take your chances.

[ultrafxr]

In addition to GMRs post:

“Testing” means different things to different people.  It may or may not mean someone actually rides a vehicle “X” number of miles or until it breaks.  The company I retired from (and I love them and hope the pension continues to be funded forever) does a LOT of analytical testing.  They also do physical testing until the article is at 150% of design strength.  Analytical testing uses mathematical formulas that include Mean Time Between Failures (MTBF).  Some parts fail before the design target and some after.  In the business world you can’t afford to make every part 100% fail-free.  The bean counters would make the price of the end item product prohibitive.  The CVO we buy is a very pretty compromise.  Or, we can choose to buy a bike with “no soul”.  You can put down your money and take your chances.

Well said Jimmy.    

[grandpadoc]

Same Cool Aid, but I thank the MoCo for changing the flavors once in a while. 

[pmcelhin]

All the negativity is really sad. 

I have a 3 week old 2017 CVO SG with 117 Stage 3 Kit and V&H Power Duals a Hi Output muffs on order.  Pipes are supposed to ship in November.

In my opinion, the M8 114 and suspension and other etc refinements are spot on.  The 114 stock M8 uns as good or better than my previous '15 CVO RG with 117 kit, Andrews Cams, and tune by one of the best tuners in Dallas area.

Can't wait to see what the HD 117 kit and V&H pipes with a really good tune will produce.

Stock, the 114 has gobs of TQ starting early in 2k RPM range and doesn't let up.  Just seat of the pants analysis.   It's the tune profile that matters - not peak numbers.   I want early high TQ that stays there throughout majority of RPM range.

Also, the bike handles dramatically better than my 2015.   Huge improvement.

The "cool aid" tastes good.  But it's real.   Just my humble Texas opinion.

[trwtow]

All the negativity is really sad. 

I have a 3 week old 2017 CVO SG with 117 Stage 3 Kit and V&H Power Duals a Hi Output muffs on order.  Pipes are supposed to ship in November.

In my opinion, the M8 114 and suspension and other etc refinements are spot on.  The 114 stock M8 uns as good or better than my previous '15 CVO RG with 117 kit, Andrews Cams, and tune by one of the best tuners in Dallas area.

Can't wait to see what the HD 117 kit and V&H pipes with a really good tune will produce.

Stock, the 114 has gobs of TQ starting early in 2k RPM range and doesn't let up.  Just seat of the pants analysis.   It's the tune profile that matters - not peak numbers.   I want early high TQ that stays there throughout majority of RPM range.

Also, the bike handles dramatically better than my 2015.   Huge improvement.

The "cool aid" tastes good.  But it's real.   Just my humble Texas opinion.

glad to hear a positive review  which color you get I'm wantin the blue set up like yours

[pmcelhin]

Orange and black.  😃  The blue is gorgeous.   Congrats!!!

Great bike and awesome motor - don't listen to all the so called expert naysayers.     I've logged 100's of thousands miles (not bar hopping) - real riding over the years.   The Motor Co has definitely made a significant positive step with the '17 lineup.  Embrace it.  Don't knock it down.  Again my humble opinion.

Good luck all.  I'm out.   Rather enjoy riding than listen to all the zero based negative rhetoric.  But if you doubt, go test ride a stock M8 before trashing it.  Talk facts.

Take care and all please ride safe.

[Para Bellum]

I've logged 100's of thousands miles (not bar hopping) - real riding over the years.

How many of those miles are on the M8?  The testimonials above and on hundreds of other threads are referring to real-world miles on 110s.  They're saying they hope the M8 really is more reliable, but we've been bitten.  Once bitten...

don't listen to all the so called expert naysayers.
go test ride a stock M8 before trashing it.  Talk facts.

So-called experts?  Like the guys who have been through five engines on a three or four y.o. bike?  The ones who had a 2 y.o. bike grenade with 20K miles on it? Or even 7K miles?  They have actual experience, not just a test ride or before-the-first-service ownership.  But that's not the issue--the issue is that HD claimed they had tested the new-improved TC engines and Cruise-Drive transmissions, including the 110s, for millions of miles.  Trouble is, riders on here actually did put road miles on them, and found a huge number of unreliable engines and components.  The proof is not in test riding an M8 for 100 miles, but in owning and riding one for 30K+ miles--often in one or two years.  That is more than talking facts--that's walking facts (sometimes literally; pun intended).

[Twolanerider]

Orange and black.  😃  The blue is gorgeous.   Congrats!!!

Great bike and awesome motor - don't listen to all the so called expert naysayers.     I've logged 100's of thousands miles (not bar hopping) - real riding over the years.   The Motor Co has definitely made a significant positive step with the '17 lineup.  Embrace it.  Don't knock it down.  Again my humble opinion.

Good luck all.  I'm out.   Rather enjoy riding than listen to all the zero based negative rhetoric.  But if you doubt, go test ride a stock M8 before trashing it.  Talk facts.

Take care and all please ride safe.

Hey two post new guy.  I'm (sincerely) pleased your experience has been so good and your optimism is so profound.  HD's overall history with design and new product development and deployment is generally perceived to be a little less rosy than abject optimism would suggest.  For what it's worth I hope you're right.  The only thing we really know for sure about the new drive train, however, is that we don't know anything yet.  So neither total naysayers nor absolute cheerleaders are the ones I'd pay a lot of attention to while everyone (including HD) waits for real miles to accumulate on the civilian fleet.