Topic: Fly United (Read 4168 times)

KGB · « **on:** April 12, 2017, 07:30:40 PM »

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OBB · « **Reply #1 on:** April 12, 2017, 07:44:11 PM »

Quote from: serdvd6 on April 12, 2017, 07:30:40 PM

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That's one I haven't seen on FB yet.

KGB · « **Reply #2 on:** April 12, 2017, 07:49:04 PM »

Quote from: OBB on April 12, 2017, 07:44:11 PM

That's one I haven't seen on FB yet.

You must not have looked too hard, that's where I got it

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muddypaws · « **Reply #3 on:** April 12, 2017, 08:25:18 PM »

Looks like he should have just got off the plane...

grayghost731 · « **Reply #4 on:** April 12, 2017, 08:27:49 PM »

Quote from: muddypaws on April 12, 2017, 08:25:18 PM

Looks like he should have just got off the plane...

Yup! and read the fine print. your on there plane .

now there trying to make it a race thing

it's more of.... just obey the Law thing.

OBB · « **Reply #5 on:** April 12, 2017, 09:07:45 PM »

Quote from: serdvd6 on April 12, 2017, 07:49:04 PM

You must not have looked too hard, that's where I got it

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So many of them popping up I can't keep up.

KGB · « **Reply #6 on:** April 12, 2017, 09:13:59 PM »

Quote from: OBB on April 12, 2017, 09:07:45 PM

So many of them popping up I can't keep up.

True!

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2k · « **Reply #7 on:** April 13, 2017, 05:07:27 AM »

He had it in the back of his mind for years........"if I ever get the chance to play the race card, I'm in for a giant payday". That day finally came.

D-N-D · « **Reply #8 on:** April 13, 2017, 05:17:06 AM »

grc · « **Reply #9 on:** April 13, 2017, 09:02:06 AM »

Quote from: grayghost731 on April 12, 2017, 08:27:49 PM

Yup! and read the fine print. your on there plane . now there trying to make it a race thing it's more of.... just obey the Law thing.

It isn't a "law" thing, and the doofus airport cops had no jurisdiction to get involved in a simple business dispute. Note that the "cops" involved have all been suspended. Republic/United was just trying to be cheap and didn't offer enough to ticketed passengers to convince them to give up their seats. Now they will pay a whole lot more for being stupid and treating paying passengers like third world refugees or cattle.

News reports constantly say it was a case of overbooking, but in fact that is not true. The plane was booked to capacity and boarded prior to four United employees walking up and demanding seats to get to their next assignment. Obviously someone didn't plan ahead, and it wasn't the folks who were forced off the flight to make room for these employees. Next time this happens let the employees fly in the cargo hold, alongside the pets. Put the CEO in there with them.

Jerry

grayghost731 · « **Reply #10 on:** April 13, 2017, 03:20:24 PM »

Sure it is. Look up the rights you LOSE when on a plane. there plane, there rules. they asked him to remove himself from plane... He did Not, so they did it for him.

Twolanerider · « **Reply #11 on:** April 13, 2017, 03:47:24 PM »

This was one of the stupidest PR f$%* ups, from beginning to end, since Neville Chamberlain tried to convince Europe and the United States that "appeasement" was a good idea.

grc · « **Reply #12 on:** April 13, 2017, 05:48:22 PM »

Quote from: grayghost731 on April 13, 2017, 03:20:24 PM

Sure it is. Look up the rights you LOSE when on a plane. there plane, there rules. they asked him to remove himself from plane... He did Not, so they did it for him.

And they will be paying out big bucks thanks to corporate stupidity and greed. The guy was basically assaulted not unlike a common street mugging. He is currently scheduled for surgery and has retained the services of an excellent Chicago law firm. United has already announced they are refunding ticket prices for all 70 passengers on the plane, and no doubt some of those will also retain legal counsel.

I've never seen a situation where this entire "ask for volunteers to give up a seat" process was done AFTER the passengers had all been boarded. The normal method in my experience is to ask for volunteers prior to boarding, and to up the ante until they get the number of volunteers they need. Of course they didn't do that this time because those four crew members didn't ask for seats until the very last minute. Stupid on their part, stupid on the airlines part, and really stupid for the local yokels to get the airport rent-a-cops involved. The experts here in Chicago have already confirmed this was an improper use of the airport authority "cops".

I hope the stink from this is strong enough and lasts long enough for the weasels in DC to fix the laws and restrict airlines from this sort of hooray for them and screw the public practice. And they need to extend the changes to the usual overbooking (which didn't apply here) where they knowingly sell more tickets to a flight than they have available. Let them make up the profits on no-shows some other way, like charging those no-shows directly. Kind of like when you make an appointment with a medical professional and then don't show up. The airlines need to be prohibited from screwing over people who bought tickets in good faith and have plans that being bumped will destroy.

Jerry

TinSpinner · « **Reply #13 on:** April 14, 2017, 10:44:59 AM »

I hear United is also offering Chinese take-out...

KGB · « **Reply #14 on:** April 14, 2017, 10:47:39 AM »

Quote from: TinSpinner on April 14, 2017, 10:44:59 AM

I hear United is also offering Chinese take-out...

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guppytrash · « **Reply #15 on:** April 14, 2017, 11:04:46 AM »

Easy to form an opinion based on the information the media has put out, but the facts are not all exposed yet.

The one thing that seems to be hugely misunderstood is the employees that were being put on that jet were not going on some vacation or a visit to Grandma.
They were not self entitled to bump a paying passenger and they were not putting themselves on the jet in front of a passenger.
They are simply being sent by their employer to do their job! Not unlike any other business traveler being sent to do his or her job.
On the other end of that flight there are 70, 80, 180 who knows how many passengers that are going to miss their flight without that crew.

Over selling flights is IMO BS. But the mainline airline that doesn't do it, doesn't exist.

I too hope this gets to the highest levels and makes a change in that law.

This happened at Ohare. It happened on a United Express jet (Republic). The video is of a Ohare airport security cop. Insert name of airline that over books flights out of Ohare (all do... that I know of) and the story is now about airline X.

People love to hate the airlines!

110tHunDer · « **Reply #16 on:** April 14, 2017, 01:31:55 PM »

Quote from: grc on April 13, 2017, 05:48:22 PM

And they will be paying out big bucks thanks to corporate stupidity and greed. The guy was basically assaulted not unlike a common street mugging. He is currently scheduled for surgery and has retained the services of an excellent Chicago law firm. United has already announced they are refunding ticket prices for all 70 passengers on the plane, and no doubt some of those will also retain legal counsel.

I've never seen a situation where this entire "ask for volunteers to give up a seat" process was done AFTER the passengers had all been boarded. The normal method in my experience is to ask for volunteers prior to boarding, and to up the ante until they get the number of volunteers they need. Of course they didn't do that this time because those four crew members didn't ask for seats until the very last minute. Stupid on their part, stupid on the airlines part, and really stupid for the local yokels to get the airport rent-a-cops involved. The experts here in Chicago have already confirmed this was an improper use of the airport authority "cops".

I hope the stink from this is strong enough and lasts long enough for the weasels in DC to fix the laws and restrict airlines from this sort of hooray for them and screw the public practice. And they need to extend the changes to the usual overbooking (which didn't apply here) where they knowingly sell more tickets to a flight than they have available. Let them make up the profits on no-shows some other way, like charging those no-shows directly. Kind of like when you make an appointment with a medical professional and then don't show up. The airlines need to be prohibited from screwing over people who bought tickets in good faith and have plans that being bumped will destroy.

Jerry

Totally agree, Jerry. And you didn't even mention the smackdown their stock has taken since this. Their brand has been suffering for a long time. This is just the latest and most public example of why.

RonandJanet · « **Reply #17 on:** April 14, 2017, 02:13:45 PM »

I know we don't know all the facts and clearly there are some missing pieces to this story. Although handled very poorly by United they did call the airport police to take the passenger off. This was not done by United. The passenger resisted and the airport police didn't do a good job of escorting him off (rather pulled him out). He must have been resisting very much (you see all kinds of videos now when cops get blamed for something but what lead to the incident is not shown or videoed so it looks very one sided). That guy said he was a doctor and had patients to see in the morning. So basically he is saying he is so much more important then anyone else and to take another passenger that is so much less important. Even if you are pissed and resisting being taken off most people will give in when security comes in to take you off the plane. Keep in mind that three other passengers got off without incident.

J.D. · « **Reply #18 on:** April 14, 2017, 03:02:19 PM »

I applaud this guy for passively resisting. Maybe it will force the regulations to prevent airlines from overbooking flights. While I agree the United gate people were following their instructions, I'll argue (as will this guy's legal team) their instructions should be illegal.

More and more people are treated like chit by government and big corporations. You sell me a seat on this flight and I'm there on time and seated, I'm on the plane and not leaving voluntarily either. My life and commitments aren't important? f$%* you United and your TSA security.

This guy was ASSAULTED by government TSA on United's direction. He has a concussion, two broken teeth, and a broken nose. That is ILLEGAL. I hope this guy sues the hell out of these rotten bastards - both TSA and United.

What would you tough guys say if this was your wife or daughter?

Time people wake up.

OBB · « **Reply #19 on:** April 14, 2017, 08:32:48 PM »

So I'm wondering if they're going to have some cheap flights to Hawaii soon. We're going to fly out and see my Daughter and Son-in-law next winter.

110tHunDer · « **Reply #20 on:** April 14, 2017, 08:51:13 PM »

Quote from: RonandJanet on April 14, 2017, 02:13:45 PM

I know we don't know all the facts and clearly there are some missing pieces to this story. Although handled very poorly by United they did call the airport police to take the passenger off. This was not done by United. The passenger resisted and the airport police didn't do a good job of escorting him off (rather pulled him out). He must have been resisting very much (you see all kinds of videos now when cops get blamed for something but what lead to the incident is not shown or videoed so it looks very one sided). That guy said he was a doctor and had patients to see in the morning. So basically he is saying he is so much more important then anyone else and to take another passenger that is so much less important. Even if you are pissed and resisting being taken off most people will give in when security comes in to take you off the plane. Keep in mind that three other passengers got off without incident.

Not "so much more important than anyone else." More important than the United employee that took his seat so they could be in Kentucky to apparently fly again in the morning. Whatever happened to customers first?

Purely a misguided decision that could have been solved by ordering a limo or taxi for the employee.

110tHunDer · « **Reply #21 on:** April 14, 2017, 08:51:56 PM »

Quote from: OBB on April 14, 2017, 08:32:48 PM

So I'm wondering if they're going to have some cheap flights to Hawaii soon. We're going to fly out and see my Daughter and Son-in-law next winter.

I'm sure there will be something good that comes out of it, Mike!

KGB · « **Reply #22 on:** April 14, 2017, 08:52:22 PM »

Quote from: OBB on April 14, 2017, 08:32:48 PM

So I'm wondering if they're going to have some cheap flights to Hawaii soon. We're going to fly out and see my Daughter and Son-in-law next winter.

Yea, if you don't mind a black eye

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OBB · « **Reply #23 on:** April 15, 2017, 06:24:01 AM »

Quote from: serdvd6 on April 14, 2017, 08:52:22 PM

Yea, if you don't mind a black eye

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I'll wear my Nolan FF.

grc · « **Reply #24 on:** April 15, 2017, 09:03:15 AM »

For those who keep saying the thugs who assaulted the passenger were TSA, that is not true. They work for the Chicago airport authority as security guards and have no police powers. They are one step up from the rent-a-cops at the local mall, and had absolutely no authority to board that plane and forcibly remove the passenger.

United did announce they were changing their policies to require crew members deadheading to an assignment reserve their seat no less than 60 minutes prior to scheduled departure of the flight. Had this policy been in affect at the time, the bumping process would have occurred prior to anyone actually boarding the aircraft and odds are the result would have been very different. It still doesn't make the idea of bumping a ticketed customer at the last minute fair or reasonable, but it would at least be a common sense requirement to avoid all the last minute drama and delay of the flight. Ultimately the entire idea of bumping confirmed passengers due to employees or due to overbooking needs to be fixed. My time is every bit as important as anyone else, and if I've planned ahead and bought a ticket I should have a reasonable expectation that I will be on the flight unless weather or equipment failure dictates otherwise. The airlines have no right to punish me because they have a no-show problem. Take it up with the no-shows. Here's an idea; make the tickets issued to people with a previous no-show nonrefundable. That will slow down the clowns who make reservations "just in case" and then fail to use them.

Jerry

J.D. · « **Reply #25 on:** April 15, 2017, 09:15:17 AM »

I believe an airline should not be able to bump paid passengers against their will, period. I also believe that the airline will eventually get volunteers if the offer is high enough. So let them continue to overbook, but pass legislation to ensure that passengers cannot be bumped unless they volunteer. This will solve the issue, IMO.

coloradotom · « **Reply #26 on:** April 15, 2017, 10:32:45 AM »

There are instances where there's no way they can meet a 60 minute cutoff. One easy one is if there is equipment failure at an airport and the other pilot isn't qualified to fly the replacement aircraft. But a non-rev must-ride ticketed pilot can just hop in the jump seat in the cock pit.

I have no idea what the backstory is on that United flight but it's very hard to get a must-ride ticket let alone four of 'em. And someone high up has to approve those kinds of tickets too, you can't just get those from a friend that happens works at for airline tossing luggage like a buddy pass.

Heck let em put jump seats in the galley and in all the heads and then an entire crew can deadhead w/o bumping anyone. And other airlines will fly other airlines people around for free too, so there's that option.

United screwed up several times to have let that happen - it wasn't just one thing they did, and then those rent-a-cop dicks, they should just be charged and then banned from airports.

guppytrash · « **Reply #27 on:** April 15, 2017, 12:26:39 PM »

Why the hate on the employees?

Have you ever traveled on an airline for work?
You were going to work. Given the choice, I am certain that you would have rather been at home with your families or out riding your motorcycle.

The airline employees were going to work. Assigned this by their airline.
Given a choice, those same employees... you know the ones just trying to make a paycheck... would have much rather been at home with their families or out riding their motorcycles.

So what if, your daughter or wife, is a flight attendant or pilot assigned this flight. Is she supposed to refuse it? Be fired? Ok, now, you are a passenger on the flight out of Louisville and they cancel due to no flight attendants/pilots.
Go ahead!! Hate on the crew again!!! Why, how, is this a crew failure!

Why did they need that crew in Louisville last minute? WHO KNOWS? Mechanical, weather, legalities in rest requirements, literally hundreds of possibilities.

Why do some of you insist on thinking this was an employee arrogance "I'm better than a paying passenger" issue when they are just going to work like you do.
Doing their job!
Putting food on the table and a roof over their families heads.

What should they have done? Think about it!!!

FlaHeatWave · « **Reply #28 on:** April 15, 2017, 03:20:31 PM »

Quote from: guppytrash on April 15, 2017, 12:26:39 PM

Why the hate on the employees?

Have you ever traveled on an airline for work?
You were going to work. Given the choice, I am certain that you would have rather been at home with your families or out riding your motorcycle.

The airline employees were going to work. Assigned this by their airline.
Given a choice, those same employees... you know the ones just trying to make a paycheck... would have much rather been at home with their families or out riding their motorcycles.

So what if, your daughter or wife, is a flight attendant or pilot assigned this flight. Is she supposed to refuse it? Be fired? Ok, now, you are a passenger on the flight out of Louisville and they cancel due to no flight attendants/pilots.
Go ahead!! Hate on the crew again!!! Why, how, is this a crew failure!

Why did they need that crew in Louisville last minute? WHO KNOWS? Mechanical, weather, legalities in rest requirements, literally hundreds of possibilities.

Why do some of you insist on thinking this was an employee arrogance "I'm better than a paying passenger" issue when they are just going to work like you do.
Doing their job!
Putting food on the table and a roof over their families heads.

What should they have done? Think about it!!!

Well,,, just about anything other than what they did do...

If they offered the passengers $1Million each to deplane,,, it would have been cheap at the price... $tock drop, Pending Lawsuits, Bad PR etc...

Wondering if it was a plot by someone that "Shorted" United Stock LMFAO...

guppytrash · « **Reply #29 on:** April 15, 2017, 04:51:13 PM »

Quote from: FlaHeatWave on April 15, 2017, 03:20:31 PM

Well,,, just about anything other than what they did do...

If they offered the passengers $1Million each to deplane,,, it would have been cheap at the price... $tock drop, Pending Lawsuits, Bad PR etc...

Wondering if it was a plot by someone that "Shorted" United Stock LMFAO...

Missed the entire point!

What should "they" have done? "They" being the 4 airline employees assigned to fly the last 4 seats.

Why hate on them?

grc · « **Reply #30 on:** April 15, 2017, 04:53:17 PM »

Back in the day when I worked retail, the lesson was this. The customer always comes first, and the customer is almost always right (whether they really are or not). When did that morph into "screw the customer, it's all about my convenience and comfort" or "screw the customer, it's all about the bottom line and my big bonus"?

There are always other ways to get a crew to an airport that don't require screwing over a paying customer or even better yet, having a paying customer assaulted and put in the hospital. If memory serves, you can drive from Chicago to Louisville in less than five hours. The airline could have hired a limo, or just had the crew take a rental car. They could have put them on a different airline flying that way. I'm sure they could have done several other things if they had the mindset to do anything possible before screwing over paying passengers.

The entire "hooray for me and to hell with the rest of you" attitude I see everywhere these days ticks me off to no end. I'm just thankful I'm retired and don't have to put up with this sort of thing at work or anywhere else for that matter. These days I only have to answer to one person, and that's the lady I've been with for the last fifty years. Everyone else can kiss my azz.

Jerry

EZRIDN · « **Reply #31 on:** April 16, 2017, 09:09:19 AM »

Quote from: grc on April 15, 2017, 04:53:17 PM

.... The entire "hooray for me and to hell with the rest of you" attitude I see everywhere these days ticks me off to no end. I'm just thankful I'm retired and don't have to put up with this sort of thing at work or anywhere else for that matter. These days I only have to answer to one person, and that's the lady I've been with for the last fifty years. Everyone else can kiss my azz.

Jerry

"....and stay OFF of my lawn!"

RonandJanet · « **Reply #32 on:** April 16, 2017, 09:33:22 AM »

I don't think most people were blaming the 4 employees that the seats were being vacated for. United had to get those 4 people to the next flight or that flight would have been cancelled which would impact their overall rating as well as the 180 (I think that was the number) passengers booked for that flight. If you have a paid seat and arrive on time you should not get bumped off. Many people have to change flights at the last minute and they get charged for that. They overbook because most of the time there is not an issue with it. United should have bumped up the value to get people off or figured out another way to get employees on that other flight. One other odd thing was that the guy was allowed back on the flight after all this. I guess they didn't need all four employees or did someone else volunteer to get off the plane. I never read for sure how that occurred.

FlaHeatWave · « **Reply #33 on:** April 16, 2017, 01:45:41 PM »

Quote from: guppytrash on April 15, 2017, 04:51:13 PM

Missed the entire point!

What should "they" have done? "They" being the 4 airline employees assigned to fly the last 4 seats.

Why hate on them?

I'm not hating on anybody,,, I think it's friggin' hilarious,,, I don't own any United Stock...

coloradotom · « **Reply #34 on:** April 19, 2017, 11:26:40 AM »

This didn't take long

BigLew · « **Reply #35 on:** April 19, 2017, 12:06:50 PM »

At one time I worked for a couple of airlines (not United) and I don't know all the facts involved. And its pretty plain to see that most folks that have spoken there mind here don't know the facts either. ITs a policy that has always been in place but its a bad policy. Its seems that all the stars aligned and United really came out of this wounded and I'm not sure they will recover and that would be very sad. To those of you that think that buying a ticket guarantees a seat, that is not true and you are misinformed. It appears after quite some time on this site (since 07) that we now have quite a few people on here that love kicking folks while they are down by ranting off about what all they would do differently and usually they a full of hot air because writing your opinion has no consequences. I have found in my life experiences that being kind is always the best option. When people screw up and it affects you they will usually try to fix it for you. Deciding to have a sit in moment on a Federally controlled aircraft for any reason is a bad idea given the current state of being politically correct. As one of my Leo's told me "don't mistake my kindness for weakness". As Hub would say there ends the lesson!
BigLew

Author Topic: Fly United (Read 4168 times)

J.D.

J.D.