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[Heatwave]

page 3

[cmashark]

Well, I guess you can add me to the list.  Been noticing higher temps while cruising and decided to check mine.  Got 8 ounces out.  Called the dealer, dropping it off tomorrow morning.

Chris

[Twolanerider]

page 3

Am I the only that reads that document as being company-speak for:

"There is a new oil pump we are supplying that we know (aka: hope to be) better.  For the travel god's sake don't send your old ones back to us.  We will reimburse you (at cost) for this new pump whenever you do a Stage III or Stage IV kit but (wink and a nod) you can probably charge the customer too.  Most importantly, however, we know this new pump is better.  However....  definitely use up all the old inventory in the system on everything we think we can sneak the old pump in to.  When that old inventory is depleted we'll roll this new baby in to everything."

[cmashark]

Am I the only that reads that document as being company-speak for:

"There is a new oil pump we are supplying that we know (aka: hope to be) better.  For the travel god's sake don't send your old ones back to us.  We will reimburse you (at cost) for this new pump whenever you do a Stage III or Stage IV kit but (wink and a nod) you can probably charge the customer too.  Most importantly, however, we know this new pump is better.  However....  definitely use up all the old inventory in the system on everything we think we can sneak the old pump in to.  When that old inventory is depleted we'll roll this new baby in to everything."

Yeah, pretty much.

[Heatwave]

The new pump is no better. More to follow.....

[Twolanerider]

The new pump is no better. More to follow.....

Well crap.   


Nota bene:   

Not this translation of corporate speak:

Am I the only that reads that document as being company-speak for:

"There is a new oil pump we are supplying that we know (aka: hope to be) better.  For the travel god's sake don't send your old ones back to us.  We will reimburse you (at cost) for this new pump whenever you do a Stage III or Stage IV kit but (wink and a nod) you can probably charge the customer too.  Most importantly, however, we know this new pump is better.  However....  definitely use up all the old inventory in the system on everything we think we can sneak the old pump in to.  When that old inventory is depleted we'll roll this new baby in to everything."

But instead this translation:

"There is a new oil pump we are supplying that we don't really know (aka: hope to be) is better.  For the travel god's sake don't send your old ones back to us because they're probably not any better than the new junk we're trying anyway.  We will reimburse you (at cost) for this new pump whenever you do a Stage III or Stage IV kit but (wink and a nod) you can probably charge the customer too and then hit him again when the replacement for the revision of the replacement is finally released in a couple years.  Most importantly, however, we don't have a clue if this new pump is better.  However....  definitely use up all the old inventory in the system on everything we think we can sneak the old pump in to.  When that old inventory is depleted and we've also used up this revision to placate the ignorant customes for now maybe then we'll finally have something good enough to in to everything."

[cmashark]

The new pump is no better. More to follow.....

Damn.

[grc]

Am I the only that reads that document as being company-speak for:

"There is a new oil pump we are supplying that we know (aka: hope to be) better.  For the travel god's sake don't send your old ones back to us.  We will reimburse you (at cost) for this new pump whenever you do a Stage III or Stage IV kit but (wink and a nod) you can probably charge the customer too.  Most importantly, however, we know this new pump is better.  However....  definitely use up all the old inventory in the system on everything we think we can sneak the old pump in to.  When that old inventory is depleted we'll roll this new baby in to everything."

And some people were crazy enough to think the introduction of the M8 had heralded in a new and better corporate mindset, finally committed to do things right the first time, make the customer king, and step up to do the right thing when stuff happens.  And now we see the warts are still there, and the reality is still the same.  They don't get it right the first (or second, or sometimes the third) time.  They also still don't step up proactively and fix ALL affected bikes, but just stick their heads in the sand and wait for the customers to experience issues and failures.

How hard is it to produce a friggin' oil pump?  This is basic stuff, no rocket science required.

Jerry

[sadunbar]

And some people were crazy enough to think the introduction of the M8 had heralded in a new and better corporate mindset, finally committed to do things right the first time, make the customer king, and step up to do the right thing when stuff happens.  And now we see the warts are still there, and the reality is still the same.  They don't get it right the first (or second, or sometimes the third) time.  They also still don't step up proactively and fix ALL affected bikes, but just stick their heads in the sand and wait for the customers to experience issues and failures.

How hard is it to produce a friggin' oil pump?  This is basic stuff, no rocket science required.

Jerry

About as hard to produce a master cylinder.  Or a compensator.  Or keep head gaskets intact.  And on and on...

[Heatwave]

Guys, here's my simple test to determine if you have a sumping issue with your new M8 engine (assume its broken in). Its not difficult but it takes about an hour.

- Check your oil dipstick at home with the engine warm. Take a picture.
- Take your M8 bike to a highway near your dealer.
- Ride 20 miles on the highway at normal highway speeds (70-75) away from your dealer.
- Turn around and ride 20 miles at highway speeds back to the dealer.
- Park the bike near the Dealer Service entrance
- Let the dealer check the oil dipstick first. If its alot lower than when you left home...take a picture.
- Let the dealer move the bike into the shop to pull the Crank Position Sensor to measure the oil in the crankcase. Ask if you can watch.
- if you have 3 ounces (or less) of oil that comes out, you're good to go. Go ride and enjoy the bike with confidence.
- If you have just a little more (a few more ounces), you may be OK.
- If you have ALOT more, you probably have a serious engine issue and the dealer will need to follow SB1450 instructions.

[mark]

That was another thought that came to mind with the latter part of the problem review.  The factory tech support being so specific about checking such an unusual thing when that thing was seemingly separate and apart from the other upgrade work that was ostensibly being reviewed.  That was what first caught my attention.  That is what would have made me sniff harder. 

It's so specific a suggestion to an unusual enough issue, and an issue that is extant to the rest of the work, that you can't help but ask the same question that went to the Nixon White House.  What did they know and when did the know it?

The above Nixon White House analogy was spot on.  I've got a sneaking suspicion that most/all M8's are going to have this problem and the MoCo discovered it early-on.  Many that don't ride much, or hard, will not notice a power loss.  So, with this in mind, HD bean-counters hope M8 owners will not realize a problem until they're out of the warranty period.  Further speculation - this will never be a recall issue because it'll cost too much.   

[FLSTFI Dave]

I ride a bit, have over 18K on my 17 SESG.  So far I have not noticed a loss of power.  I have done several 600 mile days at 75~80 mph.  Not saying it will not happen, and I am watching for it.  Bike is pretty much stock except fullsac 2.25 cores.

[Fullsac Performance]

I ride a bit, have over 18K on my 17 SESG.  So far I have not noticed a loss of power.  I have done several 600 mile days at 75~80 mph.  Not saying it will not happen, and I am watching for it.  Bike is pretty much stock except fullsac 2.25 cores.

18K already Dave? You must be retired!

I just got back from a 4300 mile 10 state ride on my 2017. A few 600 mile days, and one 700 miler in under 10 hours.
Miles and miles of cruise set over 90 mph. And for the record, my crank run out is .006, not quite oil pump friendly.
Zero issues with anything.

You guys need to stop all this doom and gloom stuff, your going to jinx me and Dave!

Steve

[BigLew55]

18K already Dave? You must be retired!

I just got back from a 4300 mile 10 state ride on my 2017. A few 600 mile days, and one 700 miler in under 10 hours.
Miles and miles of cruise set over 90 mph. And for the record, my crank run out is .006, not quite oil pump friendly.
Zero issues with anything.

You guys need to stop all this doom and gloom stuff, your going to jinx me and Dave!

Steve

Just curious what you're seeing for fuel mileage/range with the new engine at the higher speeds.  My '15 drops like a rock above 70 and goes down into the 20's if I set the cruise at 85.  I'm just wondering if the new engine is more tolerant of the higher loads?

[Fullsac Performance]

Just curious what you're seeing for fuel mileage/range with the new engine at the higher speeds.  My '15 drops like a rock above 70 and goes down into the 20's if I set the cruise at 85.  I'm just wondering if the new engine is more tolerant of the higher loads?

If I kept it to 75 for a whole tank it was right at 40. Start breaking 85 and it drops to the low 30s fast. Honestly, on the windy roads at those speeds where I really start to enjoy myself, I could care less what the milage is.

Steve@fullsac.com