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Author Topic: Magnetti Marelli conversion to more modern EFI ?  (Read 11894 times)

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martys

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Magnetti Marelli conversion to more modern EFI ?
« on: January 28, 2018, 11:47:20 AM »

Hi Fella's, My 2000 SERG is getting a bit tired, it now has 102,000 km (65k) on it and I don't believe the motor has ever been opened. I am considering doing a bore kit from 96 to 103, and also switching my EFI on my 2000 Road Glide Triple Red from MM to Delfi or some other system without having to take out a mortgage  ;) Any feedback on this project would be appreciated .


Marty
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Twolanerider

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Re: Magnetti Marelli conversion to more modern EFI ?
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2018, 08:52:33 PM »

Hi Fella's, My 2000 SERG is getting a bit tired, it now has 102,000 km (65k) on it and I don't believe the motor has ever been opened. I am considering doing a bore kit from 96 to 103, and also switching my EFI on my 2000 Road Glide Triple Red from MM to Delfi or some other system without having to take out a mortgage  ;) Any feedback on this project would be appreciated .


Marty

There are options Marty.  I've converted a few M&M bikes to carbs.  That's an easy solution if you want to lose fuel injection.  If you want to keep fuel injection (and I did) there are options there too.

A few aftermarket harness additions that add to or kludge on top some part of the M&M harness and keep some/all/or a little of the original M&M hardware.  I've messed with some of those and don't like any that I've seen.  Especially if you break down on the road somewhere and have to rely on someone else for service.  That shop will some what they'll only perceive as a Frankenstein's combo and walk away.

Just make the bike newer.  It'll take a parts collection but it's all parts you can collect used (eBay or wherever) relatively inexpensively if you're willing to be patient.  Get the parts you'll need from an 04-05 bike and make the old M&M bike straight up Delphi.

When I did mine a few years ago got all the pieces from a wrecked donor bike for $250.  Have done the same thing to a few others and helped the owners search eBay for awhile.  They each spent anywhere from $400 to $700 depending on how patient they were.  All the parts are bolt-on though so it's not a tough chore.
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martys

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Re: Magnetti Marelli conversion to more modern EFI ?
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2018, 09:38:57 PM »

There are options Marty.  I've converted a few M&M bikes to carbs.  That's an easy solution if you want to lose fuel injection.  If you want to keep fuel injection (and I did) there are options there too.

A few aftermarket harness additions that add to or kludge on top some part of the M&M harness and keep some/all/or a little of the original M&M hardware.  I've messed with some of those and don't like any that I've seen.  Especially if you break down on the road somewhere and have to rely on someone else for service.  That shop will some what they'll only perceive as a Frankenstein's combo and walk away.

Just make the bike newer.  It'll take a parts collection but it's all parts you can collect used (eBay or wherever) relatively inexpensively if you're willing to be patient.  Get the parts you'll need from an 04-05 bike and make the old M&M bike straight up Delphi.

When I did mine a few years ago got all the pieces from a wrecked donor bike for $250.  Have done the same thing to a few others and helped the owners search eBay for awhile.  They each spent anywhere from $400 to $700 depending on how patient they were.  All the parts are bolt-on though so it's not a tough chore.
Thanks Don I was sure you would advise me on this project and I do appreciate it.   I  guess my first step would be to search for a wrecked 04/05 up hereand try to secure the entire system from it .  If that isnt possible I maypick your brain a bit more for a list of what to search for.


Marty
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Twolanerider

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Re: Magnetti Marelli conversion to more modern EFI ?
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2018, 11:12:30 PM »

Thanks Don I was sure you would advise me on this project and I do appreciate it.   I  guess my first step would be to search for a wrecked 04/05 up hereand try to secure the entire system from it .  If that isnt possible I maypick your brain a bit more for a list of what to search for.


Marty

Glad to help any time.  It's a bit of a parts list.  The donor bikes are getting old enough that most of the stuff can be had relatively cheaply though.  Will try to work from memory here and see how complete of a parts list can come up with on short notice:

Battery try
ECM bracket
ECM from 04-05-06
Main harness from 04-05
Engine harness from 04-05
Interconnect harness from 04-05
02-05 throttle body
Fuel pump and float assy (all the guts in the tank) 02-07 (think that's right)
gasket and screws for fuel pump assy above
Gauges from 04-13 bike
charging system

Options on the charging system:  You can make the original Marelli era charging system work.  Not recommended. 

Can use the 02-05 charging system parts and it'll be plug and play to the harness you'd be using.  Easiest option and works ok unless you load the bike up with lots of lights, heated riding gear and saddles, etc.

If you want all the charging capacity you can get use the 06-09 three phase charging system parts.  Not quite plug and play but almost.  One pigtail change and you're home.

It's been awhile since I've done the charging system swap on a 01 and earlier bike.  I think I remember having to open up the holes in the legs of the regulator just a bit to make it mount.

If you do this you no longer use (and good riddance) the old cam position sensor.  You'll also need a plug for one of the two holes in the gas tank a new fuel line from the tank to the throttle body.  I think I remember the coupler in the tank needing to be changed to match the new line as well.  Not sure there but, if so, Drag Specialties has that fitting with a new hose attached for cheap.

It's a large enough collection of parts that if you just goes balls to the wall and by whatever you can find first it can get expensive.  Be patient though and a lot of this stuff can be had cheap.  eBay is your friend if you're patient.

Pay special attention to harnesses on eBay.  I did exactly this job to a bike from a buddy in Tulsa a year or two ago.  The harness had a bad wire in it for the serial bus data signal so the tach and speedo didn't work.  Took me longer than it should to isolate the problem then a half hour to pull a new wire from someplace where the data signal was still good at the TSSM to up inside the fairing.  Cheap fix in a six foot piece of wire and a couple connectors but it took time.

Get all the pieces in hand and it's a fun Saturday job to change it all out.  Then when done the old bike is all the vintage of Delphi parts that has such a large fleet in service that parts will still be available for a long time.
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Twolanerider

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Re: Magnetti Marelli conversion to more modern EFI ?
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2018, 07:12:02 PM »

Here is a setup that works great...http://www.zippersperformance.com/all-products/performance-kits/thundermax/filter/cat/thundermax-marelli-conversion/engine_type/twin-cam-r.html


I used one of those for a long time on my own and installed one other on someone else's.   A rep from Zippers told me (summer before last) that Thundermax was soon discontinuing support the Marelli conversion kits.  Just not enough sales.  Just the messenger passing on what I was told. That's why when I had a couple glitches with mine I just converted the bike to 2005 Delphi.

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grandpadoc

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Re: Magnetti Marelli conversion to more modern EFI ?
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2018, 08:04:07 PM »

Dang Twolane, wish you were my neighbor. Good luck Marty, I'm surviving on ebay used M&M throttle bodies which are cheap and have worked fine if unmolested. I would like to convert to points and carb someday.  :P
« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 08:05:41 PM by grandpadoc »
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Ironhorse

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Re: Magnetti Marelli conversion to more modern EFI ?
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2018, 08:04:50 PM »

I had the Zippers conversion kit on my ‘01. Given the choice, I would go Delphi or carb.
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Twolanerider

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Re: Magnetti Marelli conversion to more modern EFI ?
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2018, 08:09:41 PM »

Dang Twolane, wish you were my neighbor. Good luck Marty, I'm surviving on ebay used M&M throttle bodies which are cheap and have worked fine if unmolested. I would like to convert to points and carb someday.  :P


You could always come visit Lou !   :drink:


The last Marelli to Delphi conversion that happened here was (I think) early last summer.  Buddy from Tulsa brought the bike down.  My shop is always welcome to visitors  :2vrolijk_21: .
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Twolanerider

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Re: Magnetti Marelli conversion to more modern EFI ?
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2018, 08:13:29 PM »

I had the Zippers conversion kit on my ‘01. Given the choice, I would go Delphi or carb.

On my own bike I wish I'd have done it to begin with also.  Quite a few years ago when it was installed it wasn't really my choice though.  At least not comfortably.  I broke down a long way from home.  Something happened and Mr. Marelli fried himself big time.  A indie shop close to where it died had the kit on the shelf.  He'd had it awhile and was glad to finally move it.  It was still expensive though.  The install happened under the awning on a long day at a truck stop.  Many bad words were said that day.  Having said that the kit itself worked ok for quite awhile.  Until it didn't. 
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grandpadoc

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Re: Magnetti Marelli conversion to more modern EFI ?
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2018, 08:26:26 PM »

 Until it didn't.
 
OK that does it I'll be right over for points and a carb, must be a way.
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Twolanerider

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Re: Magnetti Marelli conversion to more modern EFI ?
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2018, 10:05:20 PM »

Until it didn't.
 
OK that does it I'll be right over for points and a carb, must be a way.


Gotta hurry tonight.  I got a curfew....
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Re: Magnetti Marelli conversion to more modern EFI ?
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2018, 12:05:03 AM »

Until it didn't.
 
OK that does it I'll be right over for points and a carb, must be a way.

Lou, I do believe carb is the way to go on those bikes. Don't need points, electronic ignition works.
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Twolanerider

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Re: Magnetti Marelli conversion to more modern EFI ?
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2018, 11:09:13 AM »

Lou, I do believe carb is the way to go on those bikes. Don't need points, electronic ignition works.

C'mon Mark, a big honkin' distributor sticking out the end of the timer cover could do double duty as a secondary foot peg!  Part of a new "nostalgia" series of Screamin' Eagle modifications.  Chrome (inside and out!) distributor caps to start things off  ??? .
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grandpadoc

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Re: Magnetti Marelli conversion to more modern EFI ?
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2018, 09:37:26 PM »

C'mon Mark, a big honkin' distributor sticking out the end of the timer cover could do double duty as a secondary foot peg!  Part of a new "nostalgia" series of Screamin' Eagle modifications.  Chrome (inside and out!) distributor caps to start things off  ??? .

Someone made a easy EVO points conversion back in 84 that fit right in the cone. The electronic ignition in the early EVO's was a real pain in the ass and the points conversion was real popular. I took the brain out and fit an old kidney tool kit in its place. Chevy six blue streaks and life was good. I'd install one today if it was possible and leave that fancy stuff to you young folks.
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jcd520

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Re: Magnetti Marelli conversion to more modern EFI ?
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2018, 10:39:33 PM »

34 mm mikuni.......ive done it twice......99 ultra .....20001 flht.
No problem..... works really well.
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Twolanerider

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Re: Magnetti Marelli conversion to more modern EFI ?
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2018, 10:43:49 PM »

Someone made a easy EVO points conversion back in 84 that fit right in the cone. The electronic ignition in the early EVO's was a real pain in the ass and the points conversion was real popular. I took the brain out and fit an old kidney tool kit in its place. Chevy six blue streaks and life was good. I'd install one today if it was possible and leave that fancy stuff to you young folks.

Fondly (mostly) remember running carbs for a long long time.  Used to carry a spare actually.  Had the normal carb and the carb setup to run in the mountains.  Would do a quick swap in a parking lot somewhere when knew that day's trip was going to find altitude.

Don't mind carbs and didn't mind points and all that came with them.  Though I was never a big fan of the constant messing with chains.  When fuel injection got decent with the Delphi systems though I'll admit to enjoying the lazy that comes with it. 
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grandpadoc

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Re: Magnetti Marelli conversion to more modern EFI ?
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2018, 02:18:24 PM »

Fondly (mostly) remember running carbs for a long long time.  Used to carry a spare actually.  Had the normal carb and the carb setup to run in the mountains.  Would do a quick swap in a parking lot somewhere when knew that day's trip was going to find altitude.

Don't mind carbs and didn't mind points and all that came with them.  Though I was never a big fan of the constant messing with chains.  When fuel injection got decent with the Delphi systems though I'll admit to enjoying the lazy that comes with it.

Still have a old Bendix and points on my Sporty Chopper, one kick most of the time. Very old pic !
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ultrafxr

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Re: Magnetti Marelli conversion to more modern EFI ?
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2018, 02:42:40 PM »

You be stylin on that chopper.


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Re: Magnetti Marelli conversion to more modern EFI ?
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2018, 08:21:59 AM »

Still have a old Bendix and points on my Sporty Chopper, one kick most of the time. Very old pic !
I like that way better than the choppers you see today.  Nice looking bike.
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ultrarider123

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Re: Magnetti Marelli conversion to more modern EFI ?
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2018, 08:41:01 AM »

Someone made a easy EVO points conversion back in 84 that fit right in the cone. The electronic ignition in the early EVO's was a real pain in the ass and the points conversion was real popular. I took the brain out and fit an old kidney tool kit in its place. Chevy six blue streaks and life was good. I'd install one today if it was possible and leave that fancy stuff to you young folks.

Ain't that the truth, Lou.... :2vrolijk_21:
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jae30001

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Re: Magnetti Marelli conversion to more modern EFI ?
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2021, 09:13:25 PM »

Glad to help any time.  It's a bit of a parts list.  The donor bikes are getting old enough that most of the stuff can be had relatively cheaply though.  Will try to work from memory here and see how complete of a parts list can come up with on short notice:

Battery try
ECM bracket
ECM from 04-05-06
Main harness from 04-05
Engine harness from 04-05
Interconnect harness from 04-05
02-05 throttle body
Fuel pump and float assy (all the guts in the tank) 02-07 (think that's right)
gasket and screws for fuel pump assy above
Gauges from 04-13 bike
charging system

Options on the charging system:  You can make the original Marelli era charging system work.  Not recommended. 

Can use the 02-05 charging system parts and it'll be plug and play to the harness you'd be using.  Easiest option and works ok unless you load the bike up with lots of lights, heated riding gear and saddles, etc.

If you want all the charging capacity you can get use the 06-09 three phase charging system parts.  Not quite plug and play but almost.  One pigtail change and you're home.

It's been awhile since I've done the charging system swap on a 01 and earlier bike.  I think I remember having to open up the holes in the legs of the regulator just a bit to make it mount.

If you do this you no longer use (and good riddance) the old cam position sensor.  You'll also need a plug for one of the two holes in the gas tank a new fuel line from the tank to the throttle body.  I think I remember the coupler in the tank needing to be changed to match the new line as well.  Not sure there but, if so, Drag Specialties has that fitting with a new hose attached for cheap.

It's a large enough collection of parts that if you just goes balls to the wall and by whatever you can find first it can get expensive.  Be patient though and a lot of this stuff can be had cheap.  eBay is your friend if you're patient.

Pay special attention to harnesses on eBay.  I did exactly this job to a bike from a buddy in Tulsa a year or two ago.  The harness had a bad wire in it for the serial bus data signal so the tach and speedo didn't work.  Took me longer than it should to isolate the problem then a half hour to pull a new wire from someplace where the data signal was still good at the TSSM to up inside the fairing.  Cheap fix in a six foot piece of wire and a couple connectors but it took time.

Get all the pieces in hand and it's a fun Saturday job to change it all out.  Then when done the old bike is all the vintage of Delphi parts that has such a large fleet in service that parts will still be available for a long time.

This thread needs to be sticky.  Plenty of bikes getting passed down and resto without modern how to for approach.

I'm currently trying to convert my 2001 into the delphi system.  I will take your advice and later down the road upgrade the charging system.

Can you say specifically which harness works best?  And for the ecm.. I was going to go with thundermax.  Comes with 2 o2s.
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Twolanerider

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Re: Magnetti Marelli conversion to more modern EFI ?
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2021, 10:19:24 PM »

Saw your PM and responded there before looking here.  Good luck!
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Twolanerider

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Re: Magnetti Marelli conversion to more modern EFI ?
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2021, 10:30:54 PM »

For posterity's sake (and future reference)a summary of the PM to the 01 rider would be something like:

04-05 harnesses and an 02-05 throttle body along with all the other parts.  Pretty much a plug and play job.

06-07 harnesses and an 06-07 throttle body along with all the other parts.  Pretty much a plug and play job.

Have done both of those a few times.

Or....

2008 and you've got some options.  But it's not entirely plug and play.  Close, but not quite.  You can use 2008 ABS for the donor conversion parts and make an old Marelli bike (or a pre-08 Delphi bike) an ABS bike.  It's more work and more parts but it's a do-able proposition.  Have done two of these (and wish I'd done my own like that years ago when I converted it).
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Twolanerider

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Re: Magnetti Marelli conversion to more modern EFI ?
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2021, 10:32:40 PM »

But........


A carburetor swap is also always an option.  Cheaper.  Less parts and less work.  But if you want fuel injection...   Well?
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Re: Magnetti Marelli conversion to more modern EFI ?
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2021, 09:45:38 PM »

But........


A carburetor swap is also always an option.  Cheaper.  Less parts and less work.  But if you want fuel injection...   Well?

Does the cruise control still work if you go carb?
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Twolanerider

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Re: Magnetti Marelli conversion to more modern EFI ?
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2021, 10:22:25 PM »

Does the cruise control still work if you go carb?


Yes.  Maybe.

Would strongly suspect that the extra bracket for the bellcrank on CV carbs to accept the cruise control's actuator cable (they call it a stepper cable) has been obsoleted by Mother Harley.  A company called Rivera Engineering used to make brackets for the E and G carbs and the Mikunis to add cruise to them.  No idea if Rivera still making them though. 

Even if gone from Harley adding cruise to an old Road King wouldn't scare me off.  The bike's main harness will already have the cruise control wiring built in to.  You'd need the cruise module and it's cable.  Some kind of a little bracket to swing lower from the bellcrank could be fab'd up from scratch (I made one from spare bits several years ago -- if I can anyone can) if one were so inclined.  Only other parts you'd need would be a pair of switches and a different set of switch housings on the handlebars.

You could re-use your original switches and just add the cruise switches.  You can actually doing just adding the switch on the right side.  That's the side with all the actual cruise control functions.  The one on the left is just a master on/off switch.  Instead of using that switch (pricey anymore) you could simply take the on/off wires to the toggle accessory switch that already exists on the back of the headlight nacelle.

If you stayed fuel injected the FI throttle bodies all have the connection point for the cruise cable.  Would still have to add the module, cable, and switch or switches.
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