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[Chief]

I just got an 08 CVO Ultra, and also plan to remove the TP and switch to HW amp.  I was planning on doing the removable TP and removing the rear amp this weekend, and installing the HW amp next month or so.  I was told the radio will not work once the rear amp is removed, unless I add the HW amp.  Is this true.  Could you send me your number, so I can call you and discuss the install.

Thanks

The radio works just fine without the amp. Without the amp, it is the same as on the Ultra. All the amp does is give you more power, it is not a must have.

Mine is removed and I have not installed anything except new speakers.

[mmbraun]

The radio works just fine without the amp. Without the amp, it is the same as on the Ultra. All the amp does is give you more power, it is not a must have.

Mine is removed and I have not installed anything except new speakers.

Looks like you have an 07 CVO Ultra.  What issues will I run into in rempving the TP?  What did you do with both antennas, the wires to the amp, the heated seat wires, etc.  I believe the only difference I have is the power lock wire to the TP.  I plan to switch seats, but when I travel I will reinstall the stock seat and the TP.  I would want to use the seat heater and the CB antenna then.

Thanks

[LRebel]

Below is an e-mail answer from Mike Hughes with Hawg-Wired.  I thought some of you might also be interested in what Mike had to say:


yes, our amplifier systems all fit in your '08 fairing, with the main unit on top of your Harman/Kardon radio. Regardless of navigation (which is a module inside the radio), if you have both XM and CB/Intercom, you don't need anything additional. If you don't have CB/Intercom but do have XM, then you'll need our dummy module to make a level surface on top of the radio. Most likely though, you won't need the dummy module.
When it comes to your Tour-Pak amplifier though, the best thing to do is unfortunately the most work, and that's to remove the stock amp and its entire harness from front to rear. Once that amp harness is removed, there's a few connections on the regular harness that need to be put back together too, so that when you're all done your 4 speaker system works like a regular Ultra Classic without the Tour-Pak amp. Once you get your bike to this state, our amplifier install is a cake walk by comparison.
The worst thing about our install is running the dedicated power wire from the fairing to the battery.

[Twolanerider]

Below is an e-mail answer from Mike Hughes with Hawg-Wired.  I thought some of you might also be interested in what Mike had to say:


yes, our amplifier systems all fit in your '08 fairing, with the main unit on top of your Harman/Kardon radio. Regardless of navigation (which is a module inside the radio), if you have both XM and CB/Intercom, you don't need anything additional. If you don't have CB/Intercom but do have XM, then you'll need our dummy module to make a level surface on top of the radio. Most likely though, you won't need the dummy module.
When it comes to your Tour-Pak amplifier though, the best thing to do is unfortunately the most work, and that's to remove the stock amp and its entire harness from front to rear. Once that amp harness is removed, there's a few connections on the regular harness that need to be put back together too, so that when you're all done your 4 speaker system works like a regular Ultra Classic without the Tour-Pak amp. Once you get your bike to this state, our amplifier install is a cake walk by comparison.
The worst thing about our install is running the dedicated power wire from the fairing to the battery.

Rebel, if pictures help here's a thread with an install.  Shows the dummy module mentioned and running the power wire from the batter.  Lifting the tank isn't really a big deal.  So that's nothing to be particularly troubled by.  Good luck if you decide to tackle it.  They are a nice system.

http://old.flhrsei.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1131935924/0#0

[LRebel]

Twolane,

Thanks for the info w/pics.

I would really like to get the amp out from under my tourpak.

[Twolanerider]

Twolane,

Thanks for the info w/pics.

I would really like to get the amp out from under my tourpak.

That was something I was never taken with when they were released.  Losing the detachability and having that big honking harness far too visible were both significant detractions in my book.

Several of the people here have done what you're considering.  I've helped one buddy here locally do the same thing.  Removing it all isn't really a big deal.  Once the tank and outer fairing off it's all wide open and easy to get to.

[Chief]

Looks like you have an 07 CVO Ultra.  What issues will I run into in rempving the TP?  What did you do with both antennas, the wires to the amp, the heated seat wires, etc.  I believe the only difference I have is the power lock wire to the TP.  I plan to switch seats, but when I travel I will reinstall the stock seat and the TP.  I would want to use the seat heater and the CB antenna then.

Thanks

The TP comes off very easily. I have a trick antenna I use that goes through one of the filler strips, using a modified Road Glide stock antenna bracket. There is a HD antenna relo kit that is easier. The wires to the amp are removed as the amp is never used, even when the TP is on. The heated seat is not affected. All extra wires are coiled up under the seat and everything is hooked up when the TP is back on.

The process is discussed several places on the site.

[saddlebow]

When you're looking at doing the amp removal etc. you can also mount the tourpak in the forward position so it acts as a back rest, and  [more important to me] moves the weight of the tourpak forward and down.  My better half prefers to keep her BSR work to the car, so I'm on the road solo.
Jim at Metal Dragon did the initial conversion from HD amp to HW, and made the tourpak removable but still in stock two up position.  I then got an HD solo seat, front detachable docking kit, and the solo tourpak rack.    Just did 900 miles Friday/Sunday, and it works like a dream; told my two buddies who helped me with the install that they had helped create the first CVO Barcalounger....
here's a pic from the trip...

[mmbraun]

When you're looking at doing the amp removal etc. you can also mount the tourpak in the forward position so it acts as a back rest, and  [more important to me] moves the weight of the tourpak forward and down.  My better half prefers to keep her BSR work to the car, so I'm on the road solo.
Jim at Metal Dragon did the initial conversion from HD amp to HW, and made the tourpak removable but still in stock two up position.  I then got an HD solo seat, front detachable docking kit, and the solo tourpak rack.    Just did 900 miles Friday/Sunday, and it works like a dream; told my two buddies who helped me with the install that they had helped create the first CVO Barcalounger....
here's a pic from the trip...

'
Great idea, looks great.  BTW, what pipes are you using?

[saddlebow]

Vance & Hines dual headers with SuperTrapps; had the Rineharts but they were way too loud for me.  Took the Supertrapps to a shop where they knew how to tune them, and they got the right balance of bark when you go to WOT but quiet when you're cruising.

[Rhino]

The TP comes off very easily. I have a trick antenna I use that goes through one of the filler strips, using a modified Road Glide stock antenna bracket. There is a HD antenna relo kit that is easier. The wires to the amp are removed as the amp is never used, even when the TP is on. The heated seat is not affected. All extra wires are coiled up under the seat and everything is hooked up when the TP is back on.

The process is discussed several places on the site.

I just installed the Dakota Digital Antenna in the fairing, works amazingly well, and allows great FM when riding without the TOUR PACK. Well, actually it works fine in my shop. Have not completed the other stuff yet.

All part of the quick detach TourPack concept. Now, without TourPack, I lose CB, & lose 2 rear speakers, because it is disconnected. Without AMP, I lose nothing, except that crazy wiring harness, what an engineers dream that was, while the radio and all headunit features remain unaffected.

TourPack install and removal is now easy with the quick detach kit. Also allows me now to use any Harley quick detach items also, like a sissy bar etc. 4 plugs remain wrapped up in a baggie under the solo seat, the left spkr and right spkr plugs, the locking tourpac power plug, and another, the CB Plug and the extra plugs for additional power, which fit neatly baack in place when reinstalling the Pak.  I would think now it would be a 15 minute job to replace the TPack, somewhat less for removal.  Fine by me. 

That harness was for one thing only, it ran front to back to front from the amp.  Seems that it would have been simpler to just locate it somewhere convenient, but I was told, the only reason that the harness existed that way for the AMP, was because all of the Ultras were built the same way electrically, the CVO had the AMP and rather than make it special, they just added this crap to interface it to the 'standard system'. That is why losing the AMP and the HARNESS affects nothing, except a few watts of audio power.  And that is all it actually is, about 8 watts per channel for what Harley calls the 'deluxe' audio??? Give me a break.  To clarify, they claim 70W at 10%THD!. Big deal, that is distorted. There is a formula, but the point is, rated watts are normally stated at .01 THD 70 W at that would be clean. Normally manfacturers knw well that their Wats can be much higher too, but they list the max at the lowest THD. Moving Halrey HK unit to .01THD gives the numbers listed here. FWIW, hope this puts it into perspective compared to HawgWired, whcih give 300 W, or 75W per channel at that .01THD.  The could easily claim 500W, but whats the bpoint if the quality sucks.

Should be receiving HW stuff in the AM, went with components front and std HW rears, found a very friendly fellow offering a well priced system at www.dumbassbiker.com  Name is a hoot, the fellow BOB, thee DumbAss Biker, is a low priced internet only dealer for thousands of things not listed on his website too. Very informative, and if he does not know the answer, he will hook you up with the mfr direct.  I also heard he sells Baker trannies lower than anyone in the US, but unconfirmed.

Anyway, the harness was easy once I started looking at it.  You disconnect everything along the way, rear to front, you now plug the rear speakers into the plug direct. Same with front speakers, you take the harness out and reconnect the speaker conncetors. Simple stuff.  Disconnect the ground and unplug the power located under the seat, and the entire harness kind of falls out.  I took a look at this mess and could not believe it.  They say you did it right, if after the harness and AMP is GONE and stuff plugged back in, that all functions work normally. So yes, I have everything working perfectly, except for those extra 8 watts per channel. Geez.   This much took about 1 hour, including the removal of TP.   It took another hour or so to install the Harley quick release stuff on the BIKE.  It will take me another hour I guess, to install the new bottom plates oin the TourPack.

I am taking my time, not rushing, doing a lot of cleaning under all those spaces I find, so that adds a little, and so does those thirst quenching breaks.

So I figure it will take another hour to install the amps, and a little time to do the speaker replacements too.  Another hour to wrap it up, tie it and install the front fairing, but, frankly I am not documenting the time, I just know I started it today, worked on it on and off for a few hours, and will do same tommorrow, and will be riding tommorrow eve with the front components tuned and roaring away throught the neighborhood.

If I feel like it, I will install the 4ohms in the TP and mount the hardware on it, but I think it will be sitting till next weekend, when momma gets home and wants to ride.

Hope this helps a little, I kinda like doing my own thing, learning by doing, and most importantly, CVOHARLEY.COM HAS PROVIDED ME WITH ALL OF THE INFORMATION TO MAKE ALL OF THIS POSSIBLE. We have a network beter than any dealer could hope and dream to have, and we have it all right here!!!


Rhino(movingaheadwithstuffwhilewifeisoutoftownotherwiseiwouldbeupthecreekyaknow)

[Twolanerider]

That's a productive change to make Rhino.  Have done it to a couple of bikes from around here.  Much cleaner and simpler when you're done and the HW amp significantly outperforms what you've removed so far.

[Rhino]

That's a productive change to make Rhino.  Have done it to a couple of bikes from around here.  Much cleaner and simpler when you're done and the HW amp significantly outperforms what you've removed so far.

TL, I agree. Or at least for this expense, it had better...  I will be installing the rest of the stuff today, and a quick stop at the stealer will get me a lay down lic plate holder, a neccessity as yu said earlier somewhere. 

I did this so if I ever go through Denver, the music will cover up the exhaust, foolling the cops to think I have an electric-no noise exhausted bike. Whatddayathink, some say I need therapy.

When I spoke to the factory at HW, I dicussed the integration of the headunit to the new amps.  The amps are only driving what signal it is given, and in this case it is the stock Harley radio speaker outputs, where it gets its feeds from.  The ease of install is straightforward to, this way it is plug and play with the exception of 4 rear speaker wires, which you are actually taking from the main harness at the headunit radio, and rerouting it to the input on the HW amp. The additional provided harnesses plug right in.

Set up is important so you don't go for the highest head unit volumes, or speakers can blow, you are going for abolute highest volume without disortion.  The head output is what it is.  Most integrated factory radios do have changes on the outputs of their own designs.  For example, I wanted al of the functionality of my truck head unit, becasue, like the Harley, it has the XM, radio, cb, intercom, gps all shown on the screen, and works with all the handgrip/steering wheel remotes too. So in the case of Harley, and my truck, I did not want to loses any of those feature things. 

In the case of the truck, it is quieter inside, let's face it, so I installed one extra component, called a cleansweep, which took the headunit disparities and provided the amps with a true flat corrected signal.  The amps then could stay at their designed THD's, because it now amplified a cleaner signal.   In the case of the HW, you need to make sure that the head unit outputs are not driven beyond their sweet spot output, so the HW can do their thing in the cleanest way possible. That way, the HW's amp a cleaner signal too.  That is adjustable on the new amps, and YOU set it, befor you reinstall the front fairing. Same with front componenet speakers if you elected to add them.

So far, nothing was difficult at all.   I am hoping I can route the #10 power wire in the plastic under-tank channel without removing the fuel tank. Seems a fish can get through for the new power and grounding, unless the ground can be closer to the radio.  AMps MUST be powered from the battery direct. Did not read that far yet if ground can be framed closer in.

Rhino(sonowineedatrailertopullwithbiketoholdgiantbatterytopowersubwhichwouldalsobeinstalledintrailertomakeithopoffthegoundupanddown)

[Twolanerider]

So far, nothing was difficult at all.   I am hoping I can route the #10 power wire in the plastic under-tank channel without removing the fuel tank. Seems a fish can get through for the new power and grounding, unless the ground can be closer to the radio.  AMps MUST be powered from the battery direct. Did not read that far yet if ground can be framed closer in.

In four HW installs (my own bike as the first one, an FLHX and two that included HK amp removals like yours) I pulled the tank each time.  Too easy to do not to make sure.  On each of those installs I used the frame grounding point on the right side of the frame very close to where the cruise cut off switch is in the throttle cable.  An easy location to access that is held to ground by a larger fastener rather than a little sheet metal screw as are the other two available up inside the fairing.

The adjustable range of the HW amp is significant.  You'll find yourself playing with it a little.  Don't be tricked, however, in to finding it's happy point with the outer fairing off.  The front speakers sound significantly different with the outer fairing on or off.  For your own curiosity you might also hook everthing up with and without the component speakers.  The difference they provide is far more than merely noticable.

[Rhino]

In four HW installs (my own bike as the first one, an FLHX and two that included HK amp removals like yours) I pulled the tank each time.  Too easy to do not to make sure.  On each of those installs I used the frame grounding point on the right side of the frame very close to where the cruise cut off switch is in the throttle cable.  An easy location to access that is held to ground by a larger fastener rather than a little sheet metal screw as are the other two available up inside the fairing.

The adjustable range of the HW amp is significant.  You'll find yourself playing with it a little.  Don't be tricked, however, in to finding it's happy point with the outer fairing off.  The front speakers sound significantly different with the outer fairing on or off.  For your own curiosity you might also hook everthing up with and without the component speakers.  The difference they provide is far more than merely noticable.

You're right TL,  skip the trouble and go directly to tank removal. So much easier to work with, and laying in the power cable correctly.  I would not even suggest trying to fish, the CVO bundles are far to large, so, this step make it very easy. 

As far as settings, I found rears needed more freq about 6 oclock position, (clockwise) to freshen it, while the front ended up about 3 oclock. Using the 4 ohm HW component speakers front w crossovers, BT's rear standard HW 4ohm.

The gain for front settled in little more than about 3 oclock postion, and the rears about 4 oclock for tuning last night. Today, I will listen again, but i am not sure that setting it higher will be neccessary, or to close to the 'breaking point'.   Although there is a ton more, I did not want to push it too loud.  Setting was done using fade for the speaker set being checked, and bass and treble full off postiions on head unit. Is this similar to what you have found for freq and gain??

I also installed the Quick release for leather tour pack.  At this time, I have it off, and the seat off, and harnesses disconected.  It leaves me with the following wire harnesses:

1. Radio Antenna wrapped up, will not be using, went dakota digital.
2. Left side and right side long harnesses to connect L & R rears speakers when TP is installed.
3. Harness connector, short lead, connects TP for intercom when TP installed. Long harness is on TP side.
4. Long Harness wire, used for TP lock, and CB antenna, and TP light. This is the long one that reinstalls up into grommet hole, bottom of TP and reinstalls inside TP box itself.

So, I have the three long harnesses, 2a, 2b and 4 above, and one connector (this one is easy with a cap), but now what?  I tried wrapping them up and putting  under seat by backrest area. Obviously not enough room. Bagged it and stuffed it, no not good.  I need to be able to store these, but under seat is not it, it crushes things a bit.   Do you know perhaps where I can make, or who makes or could make extension harnesses that will loose this stuff, and therefore would have short leads with protective caps, like the intercom, and the extensions used when adding on TP? That would be the cleanest solution. Little hard work up front, but good long term solution.

Rhino