Topic: CVO 2019 Sumping (Read 3757 times)

babaji05 · « **on:** October 28, 2019, 08:24:21 PM »

Hi guys new member from NZ. A proud owner of a wine coloured 2019 CVO. 1800 klms, most of them workshop ones and now back in the workshop for second time with loss of power issues. Makes me pretty sad this was to be my forever bike. It appears to me the only straight answers are coming from these types of platforms and on this isuue everyone has an opinion. First up dealer looking after me real well, trust them 100% but not Harley. Obviously there is a problem of sorts with these motors and its so prevalant that Harley would have to be blind to not see it. Can someone tell me why no one who should has stood up and said "yup problem and here is a solutio". I would have thought 150 years of building bikes they would have sorted this out or is the potential for a huge loss so big its just coltaeral damage and this includes some of the dealers or am I over reacting? Be great to hear your feed back. Our laws are on my side at this stage and I can legally claim all of my money back. Should I? And should I just invest in a low klm 2015 CVO sTreetglide.
Appreciate your advice folk thanks.

mark · « **Reply #1 on:** October 28, 2019, 11:07:43 PM »

Unfortunately, M8 sumping and fluid migration from the transmission to primary are the trademark problems with this engine. Why hasn't HD addressed the issue? JM2C, the MoCo poorly designed the M8 oiling system and to correct the problem on every bike would be financially crippling. That's why we saw various "fixes," hoping one of them would be the solution that counters the real problem. It's much cheaper to address sumping bikes in piecemeal fashion than a total recall. Not what you wanted to hear, but this is my take...along with many others.

babaji05 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 28, 2019, 11:26:55 PM »

Yea thanks Mark, I kinda figured as much. What I struggle with is though why not all the motors, it seems to pick on one bike and doesnt let go?

Buck Rogers · « **Reply #3 on:** October 29, 2019, 11:00:27 AM »

What's the build date of the bike. You will find it on the left front down tube as I'm curious about what oil pump and plate are in it.

dayne66 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 29, 2019, 11:24:20 AM »

Quote from: babaji05 on October 28, 2019, 08:24:21 PM

Makes me pretty sad this was to be my forever bike. Our laws are on my side at this stage and I can legally claim all of my money back. Should I? And should I just invest in a low klm 2015 CVO sTreetglide.

In 2-3 years I'll be getting my 'for ever retirement' bike.....and do not want to deal with these serious issues either...my '12 has enough issues! I'd take my money back....get the '15 and fix the known issues with known solutions.
I am really starting to doubt that my 'for ever' bike will be a Harley.

Prostock · « **Reply #5 on:** October 29, 2019, 01:11:25 PM »

Have a 17 Road Glide in the shop with both issues. This is what we did to correct. Added a Greg Williams shaft along with S&S 80W140 Gear oil for the transfer. For sumping what we found was rear cylinder was out of round .004". Bored 114 cylinders to match Mahle 120 flat tops. The piston jets were somewhat loose and definitely not flat which we resurfaced and used cometic gaskets, Added a 2020 oil pump along with zero deck height and CR480 Cam. Bike had 25K miles before failure. Running VR1 high zinc 20W50 oil.

babaji05 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 29, 2019, 05:32:21 PM »

Thanks guys I will attend to the requests and also supply build date for the bike. Sad. $:-\$

JONNIEROCK · « **Reply #7 on:** December 02, 2019, 02:23:10 PM »

I know you've all heard it before, But after hearing about the migration, and sumping problems, and after 3 years they still don't seem to get it right, and then on top of that they don't want to warranty it in some cases, is why when I find a buyer for my 16 CVO Street Glide and 14 Ultra Limited I'm moving on. Paying to much for a bike is one thing, but not having stand behind it is another, and living up north I'm not about have it in the shop most of the riding season.
Jonnierock

fkhan726 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 02, 2019, 08:43:47 PM »

Sorry to hear about your troubles. Nothing more frustrating than weeks/months at the dealer without certainty the problem is fixed.

Robmay · « **Reply #9 on:** December 03, 2019, 12:31:52 PM »

Quote from: babaji05 on October 29, 2019, 05:32:21 PM

Thanks guys I will attend to the requests and also supply build date for the bike. Sad. $:-\$

Any updates?

Rob

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scotman623 · « **Reply #10 on:** December 03, 2019, 01:10:14 PM »

Bought my CVO RG this past July, my bike has had both issues!! Hopefully I’m solving the problem as I type..Big bore 128 with head and valve work, SS oil pump and cam plate... Time will tell... I definitely don’t have a warranty to fall back on now, I NEVER trusted them to fix it in the first place... My bike started having both issues with just over 300 miles on it completely stock.... I wish you luck and hopefully they take care of you... I personally would get all my money back and move on if I were in your situation.... Scott

grc · « **Reply #11 on:** December 03, 2019, 02:06:28 PM »

Quote from: scotman623 on December 03, 2019, 01:10:14 PM

Bought my CVO RG this past July, my bike has had both issues!! Hopefully I’m solving the problem as I type..Big bore 128 with head and valve work, SS oil pump and cam plate... Time will tell... I definitely don’t have a warranty to fall back on now, I NEVER trusted them to fix it in the first place... My bike started having both issues with just over 300 miles on it completely stock.... I wish you luck and hopefully they take care of you... I personally would get all my money back and move on if I were in your situation.... Scott

When you say both issues, are you including the transmission oil migration to the primary as the second issue? If so, your listed mods won't fix that problem. Installing a vent in the primary will stop the migration. It should be a warranty repair, Harley has the vent kit available. If the primary is already opened up for the other work, it would be a great time to also do the vent install to avoid another teardown.

Jerry

bigsixman · « **Reply #12 on:** December 03, 2019, 02:24:15 PM »

I have a 2017 SGS that started the fluid transfer this year at 6,700 miles. I serviced the bike for winter and noticed the primary was about 10 ounces over full and my tranny was that much down. I contacted my dealer and he set up an appointment for me and they installed the HD vent kit.

Winter is here so I have not had a chance to even drive it since the update. I did not experience any sumping with the motor so I will keep my fingers crossed.

My buddy also has a 2017 SGS and we serviced his bike late this fall too and his checked out ok on both the fluid transferring and sumping.

mslcpa · « **Reply #13 on:** December 03, 2019, 03:59:51 PM »

I'm surprised that a class action suit has not been filed against HD.

bigsixman · « **Reply #14 on:** December 03, 2019, 05:58:58 PM »

^^^^
I have to agree with your post.

babaji05 · « **Reply #15 on:** December 03, 2019, 10:33:09 PM »

Cheers guys, Harley have agreed to replace my motor with a 2020 version of the Screaming Eagle. It appears that for whatever reason these motors dont do it
or at least theres nothing on the net about it. Fingers crossed. At all times I was calm, polite but firm and sympathetic to the dealer. This paid dividends and hopefully when it is fixed we will all have a win win situation whhich is best.

Phantom309 · « **Reply #16 on:** December 04, 2019, 01:58:02 AM »

Quote from: babaji05 on December 03, 2019, 10:33:09 PM

Cheers guys, Harley have agreed to replace my motor with a 2020 version of the Screaming Eagle. It appears that for whatever reason these motors dont do it
or at least theres nothing on the net about it. Fingers crossed. At all times I was calm, polite but firm and sympathetic to the dealer. This paid dividends and hopefully when it is fixed we will all have a win win situation whhich is best.

Good for you and I wish you better luck with the new one. Not to sound like negative Ned, but I can't believe people still continue buy these junk M8s after hearing about all the well-known problems. I know it isn't my money, but it just pi$$es me off when the average guy buys a new bike he already got raped on in the 1st place .... and then has to deal with warranty stuff or spending MORE of your own dough to make it right. There are plenty of other better bikes out there without that bar & shield branding for the money. I can see why so many are jumping ship and sales are tanking for HD. I have the same love/hate relationship with my bike as others that own them and that's why I've been back/forth 4 times personally. Mine has been pretty good to me so far, but it is the last HD I'll ever own just because of their lack-luster attitude with their consumers.

FLSTFI Dave · « **Reply #17 on:** December 04, 2019, 08:42:24 AM »

Quote from: Phantom309 on December 04, 2019, 01:58:02 AM

Good for you and I wish you better luck with the new one. Not to sound like negative Ned, but I can't believe people still continue buy these junk M8s after hearing about all the well-known problems. I know it isn't my money, but it just pi$$es me off when the average guy buys a new bike he already got raped on in the 1st place .... and then has to deal with warranty stuff or spending MORE of your own dough to make it right. There are plenty of other better bikes out there without that bar & shield branding for the money. I can see why so many are jumping ship and sales are tanking for HD. I have the same love/hate relationship with my bike as others that own them and that's why I've been back/forth 4 times personally. Mine has been pretty good to me so far, but it is the last HD I'll ever own just because of their lack-luster attitude with their consumers.

I am guessing its the same that people kept buying the 110 motor CVO bikes with all the known issues. 10 years in production and still having lifter failure as early as 20K miles. I have had 4 110 CVO bikes, 2 had lifter failure, one never had a chance as the motor was built with 1500 miles on the bike, The 15 had catastrophic lifter failure at 44K miles two days before factory warranty was up, motor was replaced.

I am on my 3rd CV0 M8 bike. 23K miles on the first one in a year, no motor issues. 2nd one 24500 miles in a year. I felt it start to sump once while ridding AZ 666 which is 120 miles of twisty curvy mount road in AZ and it was very hot out, over 95 degrees. Bike was being ridden very hard. Felt it start to loose power, slowed, pulled over and let the bike idle while upright not on stand for several minutes. Bike back to normal. My 3rd M8 CVO has just over 18K miles on it, not a year old yet. no motor issues. Lots of other issues, like 3rd set of front rotors.

scotman623 · « **Reply #18 on:** December 04, 2019, 12:33:30 PM »

Quote from: bigsixman on December 03, 2019, 02:24:15 PM

I have a 2017 SGS that started the fluid transfer this year at 6,700 miles. I serviced the bike for winter and noticed the primary was about 10 ounces over full and my tranny was that much down. I contacted my dealer and he set up an appointment for me and they installed the HD vent kit.

Winter is here so I have not had a chance to even drive it since the update. I did not experience any sumping with the motor so I will keep my fingers crossed.

My buddy also has a 2017 SGS and we serviced his bike late this fall too and his checked out ok on both the fluid transferring and sumping.

I should have mentioned that they also installed the vent kit during the build.. Everything is done except the 5.5 injectors, just waiting on Harley to get them to the builder.

dayne66 · « **Reply #19 on:** December 04, 2019, 12:43:29 PM »

Quote from: FLSTFI Dave on December 04, 2019, 08:42:24 AM

I am guessing its the same that people kept buying the 110 motor CVO bikes with all the known issues.

I waited until 2012 to buy my 110.....I believed that the issues were fixed by then....'guess not!

easyryder01 · « **Reply #20 on:** December 14, 2019, 10:38:50 PM »

Have dealer replace oil pump with current 2020 oil pump. Previous oil pump is now obsolete.

grc · « **Reply #21 on:** December 15, 2019, 10:29:37 AM »

Quote from: easyryder01 on December 14, 2019, 10:38:50 PM

Have dealer replace oil pump with current 2020 oil pump. Previous oil pump is now obsolete.

As are the previous four or five or six versions, I've lost track of the exact number. This is a fine example of a manufacturer doing the same thing we all bash dealership service departments for, keep throwing parts at a problem hoping something will magically "fix" the problem. In Harley's case they are just throwing different band-aids at the problem, hoping they will stumble on one that's good enough to get the vast majority of engines beyond the factory warranty. Same strategy that worked so well (not) on the Twin Cam 110 catastrophic lifter and engine failures, a strategy the ESP folks and/or customers are still paying for btw.

Jerry

Author Topic: CVO 2019 Sumping (Read 3757 times)

mark