Topic: Upgraded High Volume Oil Pump (Read 3528 times)

2018CVOGS · « **on:** January 30, 2020, 10:26:09 PM »

Has anyone heard of an upgraded high volume oil pump released in 2020 for the M8? I’d like to replace mine at the same time as I’m upgrading the cam. H-D website search only shows pre-M8.

ParadigmGuy · « **Reply #1 on:** January 30, 2020, 10:53:25 PM »

Quote from: 2018CVOGS on January 30, 2020, 10:26:09 PM

Has anyone heard of an upgraded high volume oil pump released in 2020 for the M8? I’d like to replace mine at the same time as I’m upgrading the cam. H-D website search only shows pre-M8.

Yes.

2018CVOGS · « **Reply #2 on:** January 31, 2020, 08:30:51 AM »

ParadigmGuy, Do you have the part#?

BigLew55 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 31, 2020, 09:46:41 AM »

Twin Cooled: High-Capacity Oil Pump P/N 62400248

Oil Cooled: High-Capacity Oil Pump P/N 62400247

Heatwave · « **Reply #4 on:** January 31, 2020, 10:50:44 AM »

Quote from: 2018CVOGS on January 31, 2020, 08:30:51 AM

ParadigmGuy, Do you have the part#?

The 2020 Oil Pump kit P/N for 2017-2019 Twin-Cooled M8 is 62400248. This kit includes:

62400055 Gerotor Assy (Water)
62400242 Oil Pump Assy (Water)
62400245 Cover w/Seal (same for both Air & Water)

On Surdyke the 2020 Twin-cooled oil pump kit is shown discounted at $112. http://www.surdyke.com/PartsMain.asp...Name=&CatName=

The 2020 Oil Pump kit P/N for 2017-2019 Oil-Cooled M8 is 62400247. This kit includes:

62400126 Gerotor
62400238 Oil Pump Assembly
62400245 Rear Pump Cover and Seal

On Surdyke the 2020 Oil-cooled oil pump kit is shown discounted at $109. http://www.surdyke.com/PartsMain.asp...Name=&CatName=

kojak · « **Reply #5 on:** January 31, 2020, 05:35:24 PM »

Its required for the 131 kit.

2018CVOGS · « **Reply #6 on:** February 01, 2020, 03:23:00 PM »

Thanks to ALL

bigsixman · « **Reply #7 on:** April 01, 2020, 11:56:17 AM »

I have a stock 2017 M8 street glide with 7,000 miles that has never sumped. I did the recall on the clutch and also the vent kit because mine was having some fluid transfer.

My concern is will the new 2020 oil pump fix the sumping issues with earlier bikes? I am concerned as this riding season my bike has no warranty because I purchased it as a holdover model. I would gladly put in the new design 2020 pump if it would help keep my bike from sumping.

Have any other members had any experience with the 2020 pump upgrade?

Thanks in advance.

2018CVOGS · « **Reply #8 on:** April 01, 2020, 01:33:21 PM »

I just got my 18 CVO RG out the shop for some performance work. The H-D technician recommended I swap out the oil pump with the new design as a preemptive measure since my warranty ended in January. Now I have a peace of mind although my bike never experienced a sumping problem.

RivRaptor · « **Reply #9 on:** April 01, 2020, 05:46:38 PM »

And don't forget about that new oil filter that just came out. The belief is it is to accompany the newer pumps. 25% more flow / capacity I believe

2018CVOGS · « **Reply #10 on:** April 01, 2020, 06:24:13 PM »

Wasn’t made aware of a new oil filter. Let me circle back with the dealer. Appreciate the info!!

GB506 · « **Reply #11 on:** April 01, 2020, 07:58:35 PM »

Quote from: 2018CVOGS on April 01, 2020, 01:33:21 PM

I just got my 18 CVO RG out the shop for some performance work. The H-D technician recommended I swap out the oil pump with the new design as a preemptive measure since my warranty ended in January. Now I have a peace of mind although my bike never experienced a sumping problem.

What did they charge you for the pump and install? My dealer quoted $1k, which I suspect is ridiculous.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

FLSTFI Dave · « **Reply #12 on:** April 02, 2020, 07:13:06 AM »

When we built the motor in my 2019 FLTRXSE we used the 2020 8 lobe HD oil pump. There have been others on this forum who have done the same. Many of the big name builders have started using the 2020 HD pump vice the expensive S&S oil pump say it works as well if not better for less money.

2019CVONH · « **Reply #13 on:** April 09, 2020, 05:31:16 PM »

Quote from: 2018CVOGS on January 30, 2020, 10:26:09 PM

Has anyone heard of an upgraded high volume oil pump released in 2020 for the M8? I’d like to replace mine at the same time as I’m upgrading the cam. H-D website search only shows pre-M8.

Yes. I have a 2019 CVO and I replaced the pump before took delivery of the bike. I put a Stage 3 kit on it as well. I've never had an issue with the sumping or breather issues. It's an S&S Cam plate and Oil pump combo. It wasn't cheap at $800 but like I said I've had no issues.

skratch · « **Reply #14 on:** April 09, 2020, 09:33:09 PM »

Quote from: RivRaptor on April 01, 2020, 05:46:38 PM

And don't forget about that new oil filter that just came out. The belief is it is to accompany the newer pumps. 25% more flow / capacity I believe

the filter has 25% more surface area, no flow or capacity. it is the same diameter, only 1/2'' longer so your old oil filter wrenches will still work.

RivRaptor · « **Reply #15 on:** April 10, 2020, 12:07:02 PM »

the filter has 25% more surface area, no flow or capacity. it is the same diameter, only 1/2'' longer so your old oil filter wrenches will still work.
[/quote]

"The increased media supports the higher flow rate of M8 engines" Quote from Service bulletin and 25% more surface area is by definition more capacity. So I stand by my statement.

skratch · « **Reply #16 on:** April 10, 2020, 12:12:05 PM »

no, more surface area does not equal more capacity. it just means that there is more filter media in the can. obviously, a longer can is going to equal more capacity, i'm just saying that 1/2'' longer can is not equal to 25% more capacity.

grc · « **Reply #17 on:** April 11, 2020, 11:34:40 AM »

Quote from: skratch on April 10, 2020, 12:12:05 PM

no, more surface area does not equal more capacity. it just means that there is more filter media in the can. obviously, a longer can is going to equal more capacity, i'm just saying that 1/2'' longer can is not equal to 25% more capacity.

Exactly!

Adding a half inch to the length of the canister and stuffing it with 25% more filter media is not the same thing as increasing the fluid capacity of the filter by 25%. Assuming the filter measured 2.75" in diameter, the canister would now measure 4.0" long and 2.75" in diameter versus the original 3.5" long and 2.75" in diameter. That would increase the actual volume of the canister about 14.2%. That's before they stuffed 25% more filtration material into the canister, reducing the actual fluid volume capacity by the added volume of the media.

Volume of a cylinder = [pi x r²] x height (length)
pi = 3.14 r = 1.375" r² = 1.89" h = 3.5" or 4.0"
Old canister = [3.14 x 1.89in²] x 3.5 in = 20.77in³
New canister = [3.14 x 1.89in²] x 4.0 in = 23.74in³
23.74 / 20.77 = 1.142 14.2% increase

Jerry

btw, since the diameter didn't change, it doesn't really matter what dimension I used for the diameter. You can get the same result just dividing the new length by the old length, 4.0 / 3.5 = 1.142 = 14.2% increase. Thought it would be best to show the whole formula for those who care about details.

RivRaptor · « **Reply #18 on:** April 11, 2020, 04:48:17 PM »

"EFFECTIVE media surface area was increased by 25%.....increased media supports the higher FLOW rate of MKE-8 engines" Quote from service bulletin. EXACTLY. Larger filter holds more capacity. No one is talking in absolutes, better yet lets calculate some numbers that will be helpful or better yet if your gonna add calculations you should at least include only the filter media portion of the equation not the whole filter can structure.

Twolanerider · « **Reply #19 on:** April 11, 2020, 09:26:51 PM »

Quote from: grc on April 11, 2020, 11:34:40 AM

Exactly!

Adding a half inch to the length of the canister and stuffing it with 25% more filter media is not the same thing as increasing the fluid capacity of the filter by 25%. Assuming the filter measured 2.75" in diameter, the canister would now measure 4.0" long and 2.75" in diameter versus the original 3.5" long and 2.75" in diameter. That would increase the actual volume of the canister about 14.2%. That's before they stuffed 25% more filtration material into the canister, reducing the actual fluid volume capacity by the added volume of the media.

Volume of a cylinder = [pi x r²] x height (length)
pi = 3.14 r = 1.375" r² = 1.89" h = 3.5" or 4.0"
Old canister = [3.14 x 1.89in²] x 3.5 in = 20.77in³
New canister = [3.14 x 1.89in²] x 4.0 in = 23.74in³
23.74 / 20.77 = 1.142 14.2% increase

Jerry

I'm not defending HD's often questionable arithmetic skills Jerry. Just to play Devil's Advocate it's worth considering that calculating only total volume of the cylinder wouldn't absolutely vitiate their claim though. They could be right one of two ways:

1) If inside that larger volume they also used a different media, and that media's properties were such that more surface area of media could be installed in a comparable space compared to the old media, than a volume increase of less than 25% could still allow for a media surface area increase of 25%. For the math to work it would require both the volumetric and the media changes and I've read nothing that suggests a media change. But it's at least possible.

2) This is more likely. They are saying 25% more surface area and not 25% greater volume. With all the overlain folds, weaves, pleats, etc of a media surface an approximate 14% greater volume could equate to filter surface medium increase of more than 14%. Especially if part of that initial smaller volume was occupied by mounting protrusion, bypass, etc.

It's always easy to doubt Mother Harley's "robust" claims. But they might not be as far off on this as the initial calculations suggest. Just for grins I just fired up SolidWorks and drew up cylinders of each size, gave away a randomly chosen 5% of internal space of the smaller cylinder to each to WAG estimate whatever is lost where it mates to the engine, then filled it with a WIX nothing-special template I found to estimate a media. With that (yes, the damn Coronavirus at home time has me THAT BORED) done I got a 22.7% increase of surface area for the media within the only 14% larger overall volume.

I am SO embarrassed to realize I was that bored. Close to 40 minutes of my life I'll never get back just to see what life is like inside of a Harley Davidson oil filter THAT ONLY FITS BIKES I DON'T EVEN OWN !! I am such a f^(*&ing dweeb. Screw this. I'm taking all my clothes off then wearing only sneakers I'm going out in the garage to sit on the Road King and make vroom vroom noises in the dark.

Author Topic: Upgraded High Volume Oil Pump (Read 3528 times)