Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Hoist!]

Hey Cheif! Where did you get the infrared thermometer? Part #? TIA, AJ

Any Air Conditioning supply house. You'l have your choice of them! Hoist!

[ESJ JESTER]

AJ   these are the size to carry

[ESJ JESTER]

www.towerhobbies.com  they hang out with a bit of velcro for the quick test

[Chief]

1.  Radio Shack has infrared heat thingys.
2.  13.5 is a bit lean. Check your plugs.  13.5 is ok for low end cruise, but 12.5-13 is better for idle range, and certainly 12.0 at WOT, with a descent from 13 to 12.5 for the mid towards the high end, ending up with 12.0 at WOT as previously stated. 

My temps dropped dramatically with these small changes, power increased, and fuel economy suffered if I wack it most of the day down to 35mpg.  38mpg + if being reasonable on the throttle.  Seems to me Harley really understated the requirements of these motors, JMHO.

Rhino

Rhino,

I'm so lost on what is best it's not funny. Power Commander tuners say 13.5 most places, tailing off to 13 at WOT. I've set mine richer than that, my tank is almost empty at 115 miles, and after a 6 mile ride home from dinner, I was at 310 degrees rear cyl head temp. Don's scoot showed about 220.

Come on over to the Best AFR thread Best AFR and chime in there. More ideas are a good thing.

Thanks,

Chief

[Jester_Red07]

Rhino,

I'm so lost on what is best it's not funny. Power Commander tuners say 13.5 most places, tailing off to 13 at WOT. I've set mine richer than that, my tank is almost empty at 115 miles, and after a 6 mile ride home from dinner, I was at 310 degrees rear cyl head temp. Don's scoot showed about 220.

Come on over to the Best AFR thread Best AFR and chime in there. More ideas are a good thing.

Thanks,

Chief

  Hey Chief,
  Just curious, Do your plugs burn Black at that AFR?

[Chief]

  Hey Chief,
  Just curious, Do your plugs burn Black at that AFR?

I haven't yanked them to check yet. I will when I get a chance.

If they're black and the cyl. head is already that hot, I'd be freakin scared to lean it anymore fearing nukuler melt down.

Right now, I think my mileage suks. Will fill up today and check. I've got the Don here, so we'll put our collective noggins together and come up with a guess of what to do.

Chief

[Hoist!]

I haven't yanked them to check yet. I will when I get a chance.

If they're black and the cyl. head is already that hot, I'd be freakin scared to lean it anymore fearing nukuler melt down.

Right now, I think my mileage suks. Will fill up today and check. I've got the Don here, so we'll put our collective noggins together and come up with a guess of what to do.

Chief

You sure it's got nothing to do with all that AFR messing around you're doing Chief? Did you try putting a canned PC map back in and measuring the temps again? Just a thought, and you know a lot more about setting the PC than me. But I thought you were getting a little carried away. I could be totally off-base. Just some thoughts I had about it. Hoist!

[Midnight Rider]

Rhino,

I'm so lost on what is best it's not funny. Power Commander tuners say 13.5 most places, tailing off to 13 at WOT. I've set mine richer than that, my tank is almost empty at 115 miles, and after a 6 mile ride home from dinner, I was at 310 degrees rear cyl head temp. Don's scoot showed about 220.

Come on over to the Best AFR thread Best AFR and chime in there. More ideas are a good thing.

Thanks,

Chief

Damn, Chief...90 degrees different is a LOT.  With the A/F ratios you're running right now, that really surprises me.  Last I heard from Don, he was still running about 13:1 accross the board, but he was talking about tweaking the Autotune to leaner settings at certain RPM's.

My bike, after the RH's and PCIII dyno is right on 13:1 at WOT and was tuned across the board at 13.4:1, give or take a tenth for any given situation.  One thing I have noticed is that since I put the Doherty PP on, my fuel milage has gone up a couple of mpg, so I'm probably leaner than 13.4:1 right now, since I have not retuned.  Bike is running good though.  When I changed my plugs at 10K, they were spot on with the 13.4:1 and 13:1 WOT...nice light tan color, no glazing and no soot.  I'm currently getting about 35-40mpg, depending on how I ride,and that is two up.  I'll be able to give you another mileage figure after my run to your neck of the woods tomorrow morning, and I'll be riding by myself, and at speeds between 75-85 as much as possible.

[ajh]

Cheif,
This is Adam from Zipper's. I just wanted to chime in to tell you that 360 is WAY too hot, that is in the danger zone. You are at the heat treat temperature of the head castings, if you go much beyond that, or do not correct the current issue, something WILL fail. Let me repeat this to show the significance of your findings, 360 is DANGEROUSLY hot.

2 quick questions for you:
What EFI management system are you using?
Does your engine have any problems reaching 6000 RPM, or does it fall on its face at 4000 RPM? I'm simply curious if the problem is in the EFI management, tuning, or internal in the engine.

We at Zipper's have seen and read the thread called "Best AFR", and we are not ignoring the request for us to respond FYI. This is a Very tricky question because the truth to the matter is that there is no perfect AFR for these air cooled engines. We are having an internal meeting of the minds tonight and we're going to answer the question as best as we can. We did not want to jump in and say the first thing that came to mind, we have been evaluating this very topic on our dyno for quite some time now, coupled with road testing for rideability, throttle response, and heat during Actual riding. Please stay tuned for a much more detailed response on the AFR subject, either later today or tomorrow morning.

Thanks!
Adam

[ESJ JESTER]

I yanked the stock deflectors off first thing. Never liked the look of them.

Maybe need to set up a squirrel-cage fan under the battery with some ducts pointing at the rear jug for cooling when stopped. Use some of that 4" foil stuff for dryers. It would look like a lunar lander with silver tuebes everywhere.

Chief

Those guys in the wheels and tires thread got it figure out....Liquid Nitrogen... disguised as NOS bottles on chiefs bike will A: cool his Hot Indian Head Issue  and B: Scare the heck out of AJ after Chip slips him the mickey.......seriously......Glad to see the vendors keeping track of us.  Thanks ADAM!! wish now karen davidson  would chime in about my big zipper problem

[Unbalanced]

Chief,

Have you looked at the trim settings on the power commander?   I am wondering if it is possible that your fuel is following to much of a path to the front cylinder and not enough to the rear?   

I am also curious if you were to take your settings of choice on the rear cylinder on the power commander and richen the heck out of it does the temperature come down any?  Just as a test where you would save the map your working on or have you done this and if so what were the results?

[Jester_Red07]

We've got Ironheads, Panheads, Knuckleheads and Shovelheads. I guess the MoCo wanted another XYZhead, so they gave us the 100 inch Hot-head.

Had a short ride yesterday to the dealer. On my ride back, about 10 miles, I got stuck in traffic about half way. Things got pretty hot, so I shut it off while stuck. Once things cleared up, all was good, normal residential area riding, so it is easy riding, 35 and 25 MPH zones.... plenty of time to cool down.

Air temp was about 70.

When I parked it, I immediately checked some temps.

LCD Oil dipstick: 237 degrees.
Rear of oil tank: 192 degrees.
Bottom of oil tank, several places: 212 - 215 degrees.
Front cylinder head around spark plug: 295 degrees.
Rear cylinder head around spark plug: 360 degrees.

While these are not excessively hot, I was surprised, based on how easy the riding was. I'll keep my infrared thermometer with me, and do some more checking when possible.

I'm running SE A/C, Rinehart TD's and a PC. My measured AFR's are around 13.5. Vents in lowers, one is removed and the other is open as wide as possible. I think I will remove the other vent panel to let in as much air as possible.

I'll also be checking other bikes for comparison.

More to come......

Chief

  Today It was 72 degrees and kinda overcast. I rode 2 up with my wife for a couple of hours. Checked the LCD oil temp gauge when We got done. And it said
249 degrees!  Now this thread and Zippers recent reply has me scared as hell about the rear Head Temp. Taking into consideration the Temps that Chief has taken, My oil showed hotter than his, What would my Rear Head temp have been?
  And yes, I am running Amsoil! SE air cleaner, and SE Slip ons W TMAX auto with the map they installed, and running in closed loop.

[Unbalanced]

Jester_Red,
Rhino and I were playing a bit today as I was gathering data for tuning on my bike and he was anywhere from 7 to 14 degrees hotter than I was at any given time.   With that said the hottest he was today was like 223.  Most of the time we were in the low 200's.   I am not sure what tweaking he has done on the Thundermax.  I bet if you ask him really nicely he might devulge what he has done to his "Almost as Fast Jester"  or maybe even share his tweaked map hehe ....

 

[Rhino]

Rhino,

I'm so lost on what is best it's not funny. Power Commander tuners say 13.5 most places, tailing off to 13 at WOT. I've set mine richer than that, my tank is almost empty at 115 miles, and after a 6 mile ride home from dinner, I was at 310 degrees rear cyl head temp. Don's scoot showed about 220.

Come on over to the Best AFR thread Best AFR and chime in there. More ideas are a good thing.

Thanks,

Chief

You know, those temps you were running above, if we can get back to it, are not so bad. More fuel will help a litle, but airflow works better.  As weget to the 90's here i FL, it wil be interesting. My temps today in he high 70's, showed oiltemp at 235 at shutdown. I am also running whre I should IMO.  It is not a worry thatI can see, just keep moving, becasue even with duals, open vents and a squirt bottle, it will get warm around the inseams. Just keep riding, and check your plugs and seeif they are tan. Mine are stil a bit white, slightly to the off white/tan side, and that is runnig 14.1 to 12.2 over the appropriate ranges.  The more interesting thing is with these heat issues responses from Harley.  Can you guys imagine running a totally stock 110?  Blisters and repairs I see coming.  I am confident that there will be a solution, but in the meantime I asm running what works best for fuel for the bike across the range.  I lowered my idle down to 825, and it helped. Also noticed wid ditrection played a role to.  Try to keep the lower fairing open all year, and close then during the cooler months, otherwise open em up.

Rhino

Related posts on BEST AFR too

[Unbalanced]

Ronnie since you posted I really cant edit my post now ....  I noticed in another thread that you changed your title.

"Rhino(fastestautotunedjesterontheplanet)"   I can't argue with that one atm.   

I might just have to buy an autotune for educational purposes