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[Doc 1]

Consider others. CycleRama and TTS make bolt in grinds that work very well. Consider the tuning plan too, a flash tuner and a dyno shop that knows their way around. You do not need the cam plate changed just the pump to the 2020 which is less than half the price of the aftermarket offerings. Change the lifters and add S&S cuffs.

Why add the S&S lifter cuffs?
 

[HD Street Performance]

Can I stop using them? If so please explain.

I like the added strength vs plastic lightweight stock parts and support especially with high lift faster ramp cams.

I also use S&S head bolts on every m8 with the heads coming off, and have good reasons for those.

[Doc 1]

Can I stop using them? If so please explain.

I like the added strength vs plastic lightweight stock parts and support especially with high lift faster ramp cams.

I also use S&S head bolts on every m8 with the heads coming off, and have good reasons for those.

If you look back at the Twin Cam motor and all it's valve train noise 80% or better cause of that noise was the lifters slapping the metal anti roll pins. The M8 quited the valve train noise substantially with the plastic cuffs while providing a more controlled lifter travel. The stock plastic cuffs also provide a little movement from the bolt and ball integrated in the cuff for expansion and less wear on the lifter. The GM LS motors have been using this same cuff design for several years, there is nothing to be worried about.....they are proven already. The Solid metal cuff is ridged which is not forgiving and you're back to a metal against ''moving'' metal making valve train noise again. The only thing I see here is another product that will lighten your wallet.......!
   

[Scott7d]

Right out of the gate on a 2020 CVO Road Glide I had a stage I installed with Vance and Hines Power Duals, S&S Grand Nationals with decibel reducers, and a flash with the HD tuner to keep the warranty. The bike runs unbelievably hot. Enough to sizzle my passengers ankles and it pings VERY easily on long hot days. I bit the bullet and scheduled install of the CR480 cam and tune with Sheffer Performance HD on July 11th. I didn't want to void my warranty this early but I've gotta get this bike cooled down. Also adding Love Jugs Mighty Mite fans.

All of the torque curves I've seen of the 480 look great. I can't wait!

[Twolanerider]

Right out of the gate on a 2020 CVO Road Glide I had a stage I installed with Vance and Hines Power Duals, S&S Grand Nationals with decibel reducers, and a flash with the HD tuner to keep the warranty. The bike runs unbelievably hot. Enough to sizzle my passengers ankles and it pings VERY easily on long hot days. I bit the bullet and scheduled install of the CR480 cam and tune with Sheffer Performance HD on July 11th. I didn't want to void my warranty this early but I've gotta get this bike cooled down. Also adding Love Jugs Mighty Mite fans.

All of the torque curves I've seen of the 480 look great. I can't wait!

So the dealer sent you home with a brand new bike that is all but unrideable and you're not at least asking them about what they might do or how they might follow up to improve the outcome of their work.  I get it, apparently you prescribed the parts to go.  Whomever dictates the menu is significantly responsible for the outcome.  But the chef or shop using that menu should have some insight and, therefore, at least partial responsibility for knowing the ingredients will play well together.  Shouldn't they?

Perhaps you have spoken with them and just decided moving on to the next step was the best option.  It's yours so no one should be telling you, in the end, what to do.  Just curious why the original shop is now out of the picture when the problem is work they had an initial role in?

[Scott7d]

So the dealer sent you home with a brand new bike that is all but unrideable and you're not at least asking them about what they might do or how they might follow up to improve the outcome of their work.  I get it, apparently you prescribed the parts to go.  Whomever dictates the menu is significantly responsible for the outcome.  But the chef or shop using that menu should have some insight and, therefore, at least partial responsibility for knowing the ingredients will play well together.  Shouldn't they?

Perhaps you have spoken with them and just decided moving on to the next step was the best option.  It's yours so no one should be telling you, in the end, what to do.  Just curious why the original shop is now out of the picture when the problem is work they had an initial role in?

The exhaust setup was my choice. I like the power characteristics of 2-1-2 head pipes paired along with not-so-big slip-ons (the decibel reducers were more a draw for performance characteristics, not necessarily reducing volume).

This setup was purchased and installed by the dealer I purchased the bike from, and then immediately flashed with an EPA compliant stage 1 map to retain the warranty. I should have clarified "pings easily" meaning it does it easy on very long hot days, such as Oklahoma stop-n-go traffic I was stuck in when I noticed the pinging. Not necessarily every riding condition I'm under, my fault for poor explanation. The overall heat physically felt from the motor in general is much more than my previous Road King...……..which was comprehensively tuned.

I did consult the dealer about the issue. They said the tuner only added so much fuel to stay EPA compliant which in turn kept my warranty. Obviously a non-EPA tune would cool the bike down, and of course the warranty goes out the window.

I've had this bike for 3 months and have already put 12,000 miles on it. So yes, it's my choice and risk to go ahead and expedite the cam/tune that I originally was going to wait until the 30,000 mile mark to do. Which for me would have been this winter. I figured a canned EPA map would run hot. Just not this hot.

[Twolanerider]

The exhaust setup was my choice. I like

Totally get it.  At the end of the day we make our choices and ride on.  Doing what we want or need to make the rides right is choice that's always worth making once that path has been started.  It really does become pretty much the polar options of stay stock for entirety of warranty on the one hand or just do as you damn well please on the other.  Hope the cams and tune make a great ride.

[Scott7d]

Totally get it.  At the end of the day we make our choices and ride on.  Doing what we want or need to make the rides right is choice that's always worth making once that path has been started.  It really does become pretty much the polar options of stay stock for entirety of warranty on the one hand or just do as you damn well please on the other.  Hope the cams and tune make a great ride.

I was excited to get rid of the catalytic converter and at least have the exhaust I wanted on there while waiting for the warranty clock to wind down. I self admittedly don't have the discipline to wait out the warranty at this point. If something goes wrong, no one to blame but myself I see a lot of people void the warranty day 1, at least I lasted this long, haha!

[Threephase]

CVO’s come from the factory with a stage I download if I am not mistaken.

[HD Street Performance]

A stage one added includes harleys pipes. As soon as the dealer got rid of the cat and didn't
 use their pipe, the pipes designed for the combination,  the motor portion of the warranty was blown. Unless of course you have those pipes and you would swap them on in the event of a failure. It will run well after the cam change and tune. A lenient dealer may still honor a motor related issue but doesn't have to.

[Scott7d]

A stage one added includes harleys pipes. As soon as the dealer got rid of the cat and didn't
 use their pipe, the pipes designed for the combination,  the motor portion of the warranty was blown. Unless of course you have those pipes and you would swap them on in the event of a failure. It will run well after the cam change and tune. A lenient dealer may still honor a motor related issue but doesn't have to.

They explained to me the exhaust combo chosen wouldn't affect the warranty because the flash would keep it EPA compliant and the dealership was installing everything. I was also wondering about that upon purchase since neither the head pipe nor the slip ons would have a cat. I guess it won't matter once the cam/tune are complete, but I wouldn't be surprised if they "thought" that everything they were doing was legit and inadvertently voided my warranty. If anything had happened prior to this cam/tune, I would have fought it aggressively since that's the guidance I received.

[rayson56]

You could also assume that the tune they used was for a cat setup since it is supposed to be EPA friendly and by using said map without a cat would definitely make it run too lean. But as you said by upgrading the cam and going with a non EPA tune the point is moot anyway.
Congrat's on all!

[mark]

They explained to me the exhaust combo chosen wouldn't affect the warranty because the flash would keep it EPA compliant and the dealership was installing everything. I was also wondering about that upon purchase since neither the head pipe nor the slip ons would have a cat. I guess it won't matter once the cam/tune are complete, but I wouldn't be surprised if they "thought" that everything they were doing was legit and inadvertently voided my warranty. If anything had happened prior to this cam/tune, I would have fought it aggressively since that's the guidance I received.

Scott, I don’t see anyway a dealer “thought” that everything they were doing is legit and inadvertently voided the warranty.  After HD paid the multimillion dollar settlement on their EPA violation, I’m sure every dealer was notified of HD’s policy on engine mods and warranty voiding.  If a dealer was to claim they “didn’t know,” well that doesn’t pass my smell test.

[Scott7d]

Scott, I don’t see anyway a dealer “thought” that everything they were doing is legit and inadvertently voided the warranty.  After HD paid the multimillion dollar settlement on their EPA violation, I’m sure every dealer was notified of HD’s policy on engine mods and warranty voiding.  If a dealer was to claim they “didn’t know,” well that doesn’t pass my smell test.

At no point during the transaction did anyone say, "Hey just a heads-up, if you do this combo your warranty will immediately be voided". I'm open to the fact the dealer may be shady, ignorant, or a mix of both. There's probably some ignorance on my part also for not asking about the warranty situation with that exhaust. In my defense....I sorta/kinda figured that's something that would have been brought up at the time of purchase.

It will be irrelevant once the cam is installed and tuned. But if anything goes wrong between now and July 11th, it will be my problem solely. I won't hop on here and complain if there's an issue.

[Doc 1]

You could also assume that the tune they used was for a cat setup since it is supposed to be EPA friendly and by using said map without a cat would definitely make it run too lean. But as you said by upgrading the cam and going with a non EPA tune the point is moot anyway.
Congrat's on all!

What is an EPA tune? And what is considered too lean?