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Author Topic: 110 Lifter question  (Read 1863 times)

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JONNIEROCK

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110 Lifter question
« on: February 17, 2021, 10:25:11 PM »

      Well there's been a ton of stuff about the bad lifters in the CVO motors. Well the last year of the twin cam was 2016. Did Harley Davidson finally get the lifter problem solved or were the lifters still a problem even towards the end of the twinkie?
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JKM

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Re: 110 Lifter question
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2021, 12:35:49 AM »

I would say still a problem, although the issue is accelerate by valve springs that are too heavy and the quick ramp profile of the SE255 cam.  Change the lifters and address the valve springs and consider a cam change, you will be good for a long time.

True engine and head experts will likely chime-in, but just my $0.02
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FLSTFI Dave

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Re: 110 Lifter question
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2021, 10:16:19 AM »

My 2015 CVO Road Glide Ultra had the last lifter revision that harley did for the 110 TC motors.  At 44K miles I had lifter failure on that bike.  Glad it was the day before the 2 year warranty was up.  Harley replaced the engine.
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fastfreddy

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Re: 110 Lifter question
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2021, 05:57:35 PM »

on my 16, 110 i changed out the lifters at 21k. they looked and felt good, at 40k changed them again same thing, im at 52k now and thing runs good... makes some noise after a 5/600 mile day but im not worrying about it to much, 98% percent of the time it runs and sounds as good as the day i bought it. dont think i will do any motor work on it till it starts to use oil, witch it dont do at this time.
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CityLights

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Re: 110 Lifter question
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2021, 05:23:04 PM »

My 2015 lost a lifter at 17,00 miles on a super slab . When they go there is no guessing,,, you know. I now replace them  every  15/ 20K, I just consider it routine maintenance. Other than the "routine maintenance" of the lifters, I like the 110. I would not hesitate buying a  bike that had  a 110,, if it a had a documented  maintenance record and passed a look see from a favorite mechanic.
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d3v1ld0g

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Re: 110 Lifter question
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2021, 09:12:04 PM »

My 2015 lost a lifter at 17,00 miles on a super slab . When they go there is no guessing,,, you know. I now replace them  every  15/ 20K, I just consider it routine maintenance. Other than the "routine maintenance" of the lifters, I like the 110. I would not hesitate buying a  bike that had  a 110,, if it a had a documented  maintenance record and passed a look see from a favorite mechanic.

So do you have the quickie push rods or do you take apart the top end every time?
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fastfreddy

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Re: 110 Lifter question
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2021, 07:25:30 AM »

Stock push rods.... takes me bout 3 hours to change lifters out and clean motor up real good
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Damon Outdoors

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Re: 110 Lifter question
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2021, 11:08:35 AM »

on my 16, 110 i changed out the lifters at 21k. they looked and felt good, at 40k changed them again same thing, im at 52k now and thing runs good... makes some noise after a 5/600 mile day but im not worrying about it to much, 98% percent of the time it runs and sounds as good as the day i bought it. dont think i will do any motor work on it till it starts to use oil, witch it dont do at this time.


It is refreshing to read the good stories along with the bad. I have a 2016 and, although low miles, no issues yet. We will see how that goes once I put on some miles.
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HD Street Performance

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Re: 110 Lifter question
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2021, 12:01:32 PM »

Harleys lifters were and are bare minimum to get past warranty period of a 96/103, IMHO. Add the same lifter to a top end of a twin cam with much heavier valves and springs tpo control that and add a fast lift rate higher lift cam and we have a recipe for failure. Better lifters helps but is not the full cure.
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Jordan1200

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Re: 110 Lifter question
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2021, 02:41:52 PM »

What are the thoughts on Jim's Powerglide II lifters?
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JKM

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Re: 110 Lifter question
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2021, 06:13:00 PM »

read here on the Jim Lifters https://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=113350.30

Personally I would stick with the ones that people use a lot here.  S&S standard lifter is a common choice
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pudgeyxj

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Re: 110 Lifter question
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2021, 01:50:06 PM »

I just replaced my lifters as I was in there already doing rocker cover gaskets. I took out Fueling with about 30,000 k's (20ish miles) they looked new. I went with Morels from Don at HD Street Performance, could not be happier. Added rocker lockers, and my bike has never been quieter. And I was able to get the Morel's shipped to my house for about 1/2 the price I paid for the Fueling.

Just sharing my lifter experience

Paul
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MacVader

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Re: 110 Lifter question
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2021, 08:47:29 PM »

So the answer is that it's actually a combination problem.  First the lifters are the same ones in 96  through 110 motors and they are not designed to withstand the pressure of the 110 springs. Now add that the factory cam plate and check valve which has a tendency to drop oil pressure into the low teens at hot idle. Then add people who have excessive idle times and it's not if but when it will fail.
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HD Street Performance

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Re: 110 Lifter question
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2021, 09:09:54 AM »

You touched on the problem, a contributing factor, then went sideways.

There is no influence from the factory relief valve at idle unless it is stuck open then you have bigger issues. There is enough internal leakage, by the oil pump gears and internal clearances/orifices, to prevent adequate pressure to crack the relief valve. They start to crack and about 28# and fully open at 32#, YMMV. A cheap Baisley spool valve improves the seal of those but these days they don't seem to be the chronic issue they once were. The cams intensity of the ramps is another contributor. Hydraulic Intensity is the difference between the . 004 duration and the . 050 duration. The stock 255 cam has fast ramps. Then last but not least pushrods that flex under the added pressure. Valve springs don't help either. The flat damper dual springs do not adequately control the problem, but I would consider these lower on the scale of what hammers lifters and causes early failure. The springs weight is a contributor. The myth is the springs have too much pressure, not true.

The springs do not control a valve train with heavy valves, heavy springs, pogo stick pole vault pushrods, and a cam that has very steep ramps. Oil pressure is adequate to refill the lifters but true that low speed pressure raised would not hurt anything. That takes a closer tolerance pump and < .003 crank runout for that pump to live.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2021, 06:05:22 AM by HD Street Performance »
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Pan1

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Re: 110 Lifter question
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2021, 09:10:44 PM »

I had two CVO Twin Cam bikes and made it a habit to have the lifters checked every 10k. The local dealer would cover replacement under my  extended warranty. Both HD standard and HD SE lifters would begin to show galling on the rollers. I also tried S&S standard lifters and they also showed wear after about 10k. Bothe my TC's had SE 259 cams and the latter one was a SE 117 kit. As a side note- I changed oil every 2,500 miles. I also had "rocker lockers installed on the rocker arm shafts to help control excess play and they did almost eliminate the annoying tap tap noise.
Several friends had lifter failures and it caused extensive damage to the engines so I thought of them as disposable items.
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