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[copout221]

 Does anyone have dyno results for the 110 motor with the 575 cam installed? I would love to see what the bike is putting out with tru-dual Rineharts, high flow, TMAT, and 575 cam. I just ordered this cam and have been told that the results are incredible but I would love to see it on paper. 

[Rhino]

I believe that Zippers has posted a map for exactly what you asked for on this website, under zippers. I recall it was 116 tq and 101 hp I think, as a direct bolt in, no mods necc. not bad for a few hundred bucks, for me that would equate to a +16HP and +12 TQ, but it comes on quicker. at 3500rpm for example, stock hp is 67, and the 575 is 78. Torque at 3500RPM is 100 stock and 116 w 575.  at 5500 rpm you are still holding 100 HP, while stock drops off to 85.  and stock torque drops to 80 lbs.   I think this would make the whole bike shift point lower, closer to 4800 or 5000, vs running it out to 6K neccessary now.  JMHO.

Personally, I am stock at 85 and 104, and with a little tweaking this cam would be sweet and reliable, bringing the 110 closer to running where is should, doing one thing, and that is taking out the EPA equation somewhat.  Oh, BTW, I think the benefit of a chain drive would work better vs gear, due to noise, and potential runout on the camshaft, which if out, would really require a teardown to fix it before you tried the close tole4rances of a gear system.  Cheaper and easier for the 'training wheel' 575 cam.

Rhino(beatingjesterssixmonthsinarowstock)

[Ghost Rider]

I should have be able to post one next week.  My bike goes in Friday to be dyno'd, with this exact set up except I have the SERT.

Later,
Ghost

[Smiler]

Rhino - we can't buy the SERT over in England so now I'm interested in the TMAT auto. Last night one of the guys told me to contact you.    What can you tell me about it.  I don't get my SERK until next month but looking at these pages I'm trying to get a feel for the best buys.
Unfortunately over here I think we are lacking in our tech departments.  Any ideas, advice, good or bad welcome.
Cheers

[copout221]

Yes, forgot about the pushrods, they are very strong.  As far as acheiving the numbers you want, you might wait and see what this cam really does first. You may be quite happy with the results.  The numbers John K got on their dyno were conservative.  The 575 does not like a higher compression, so that mod is out.  Also, I don't think that the limit has been reached on the existing TB, so that might not work either.  From what I see, this cam (575) is good for the stock upgrade. If you want more, then you need to find another matched set of components, including a new cam.  It's all in the proper mix.  Enjoy! I am curious to see if your rocker covers needed a bit of clearance. Are you going to check it and open the top? Just curious, since John said he had not seen one that was good.


Rhino

Thanks Rhino. I don't want to start dumping a ton of money into the motor just yet so I will try the 575 like you said and see what I get. I am NOT going to let another Goldwing walk all over me again  . Anyways, the installer is not going into the top of the motor unless he feels it needs to be opened up for the clearance issue to be addressed. John told me it may be OK but could not guarantee it and said it may make some noise. I don't know how much more labor the stealer would charge me to do that but I may approach the mechanic on the side and see if he can do the whole project on the side for cash !! If that is the case I know he will pull the tank and heads and grind down the small amount necessary to gain the required clearance. I just need to get the guy on the side when I am at the dealer and not jeopardize his reputation or job.

[Rhino]

The downside to the install 'on the side', is that godforsaken word....warranty.  Look, here is the bottom line at my dealership. If they install a cam, they will warranty the work. Any leaks, problems etc it's covered. The only thing that remains uncovered is the non-harley parts, and I have some good faith in Zippers. So does Harley.  If the work is done outside, nada is covered, and even though it may be gaskets that fail, it still is a PITA.  One other interesting thing, if the rocker cover needs a blem removed for clearance with the stock setup, and it is determined that it is rubbing, which I think it is, the clearancing will be covered under warranty, which means the labor for the tank removal and rocker access, and cleanup, (about one hour) will fall off the invoice.

NOTE: do not get into warranty with me or this post.  Next, I think that Goldwing will still win, unfortunately.

My dealer looks at each mod and manufacturer and the intent of the mod, and if it not pushing the motor, or harmful with an unknown, warranty ain't gonna be an issue. They want the revenue and have confidence in certain mods. Period.


NEXT:  Smiler....  www.zippersperformance.com   look up new stuff, New thundermax with autotune.  Go to the www.thunder-max.com    website also, and download the smartlink IV software, and the install manual and the quick install books. free.  You will think it is complicated, but it is not. The key is in the maps that ZIppers created. No dyno required, no outside tuner to mess things up.  The software code, to open it, is right in the manual, open sourced for everyone. 

It is really the best bet if you want to retain your independence, rather than paying a dealer for a tweak now and then.

Don't waste your money on a SERT. I have one, unfortunately locked to my ECM, but now I have the stock ECM and the SERT in the garage storage . Yes, it could be a combo to replace on a bike and have a nice sert and ecm setup, but it is not for sale at this time, but I don't know why..yet. 


Rhino

[Unbalanced]

Rhino,

If you go with a cam setup might as well sell it since the map is for a stock cam / open breather

[copout221]

The downside to the install 'on the side', is that godforsaken word....warranty.  Look, here is the bottom line at my dealership. If they install a cam, they will warranty the work. Any leaks, problems etc it's covered. The only thing that remains uncovered is the non-harley parts, and I have some good faith in Zippers. So does Harley.  If the work is done outside, nada is covered, and even though it may be gaskets that fail, it still is a PITA.  One other interesting thing, if the rocker cover needs a blem removed for clearance with the stock setup, and it is determined that it is rubbing, which I think it is, the clearancing will be covered under warranty, which means the labor for the tank removal and rocker access, and cleanup, (about one hour) will fall off the invoice.
NOTE: do not get into warranty with me or this post.  Next, I think that Goldwing will still win, unfortunately.

My dealer looks at each mod and manufacturer and the intent of the mod, and if it not pushing the motor, or harmful with an unknown, warranty ain't gonna be an issue. They want the revenue and have confidence in certain mods. Period.


NEXT:  Smiler....  www.zippersperformance.com   look up new stuff, New thundermax with autotune.  Go to the www.thunder-max.com    website also, and download the smartlink IV software, and the install manual and the quick install books. free.  You will think it is complicated, but it is not. The key is in the maps that ZIppers created. No dyno required, no outside tuner to mess things up.  The software code, to open it, is right in the manual, open sourced for everyone. 

It is really the best bet if you want to retain your independence, rather than paying a dealer for a tweak now and then.

Don't waste your money on a SERT. I have one, unfortunately locked to my ECM, but now I have the stock ECM and the SERT in the garage storage . Yes, it could be a combo to replace on a bike and have a nice sert and ecm setup, but it is not for sale at this time, but I don't know why..yet. 


Rhino

Ok, so how will I know if there is a clearance issue after the install? Does the new cam cause the problem or is it already having a clearance problem with the stock setup (how do I know) ? This is going to be a major issue for me when it comes to getting this covered under warranty. In addition, the dealer quoted another six hours of time to pull the heads and do the grinding. How can that take six hours ? I could probably do it faster !!! This is really confusing, I may have to call John at Zippers to discuss this issue.

I am already running the TMAT and have the new map downloaded for when the new cam is installed. What a PITA this is becoming.

[Hoist!]

Ok, so how will I know if there is a clearance issue after the install? Does the new cam cause the problem or is it already having a clearance problem with the stock setup (how do I know) ? This is going to be a major issue for me when it comes to getting this covered under warranty. In addition, the dealer quoted another six hours of time to pull the heads and do the grinding. How can that take six hours ? I could probably do it faster !!! This is really confusing, I may have to call John at Zippers to discuss this issue.

I am already running the TMAT and have the new map downloaded for when the new cam is installed. What a PITA this is becoming.

You don't have to pull the heads to clearance the rocker boxes. And the cam you're talking about is bolt-in. So, there shouldn't need any special or extra work. If they install the cams, they should be making sure the rocker boxes are clearanced. Anyone doing the job and not clearancing everything, shouldn't be doing the job. It's all part of the job to do things right! Hoist!

[copout221]

You don't have to pull the heads to clearance the rocker boxes. And the cam you're talking about is bolt-in. So, there shouldn't need any special or extra work. If they install the cams, they should be making sure the rocker boxes are clearanced. Anyone doing the job and not clearancing everything, shouldn't be doing the job. It's all part of the job to do things right! Hoist!

That makes sense but the dealer said they would NOT have to go into the upper part of the motor if I used adjustable pushrods. Is this possible or does the rocker covers still have to be removed regardless for a proper install ? Also, how long should that take ? The second STEALER I spoke with yesterday quoted another 5-6 hrs labor to pull the rocker box covers / lowers. I HATE that I don't have the knowledge to do this job myself. I DON'T trust what dealers tell me, this is why I am on these forums.

Also, the guy I spoke with yesterday at the STEALER told me to NOT believe everything I read on the internet forums because the information is usually wrong. He also denied that the 110 engines have been having heat related problems in stock form and doesn't know why they would. He also had nothing nice to say about Zippers products after I told him where I was getting the cam 

So I guess CVO owners on these forums are planning a conspiracy to sabotoge the reputation of the new 110 powerplant and are fabricating the problems they have been posting. WHAT A JOKE !!!! I am really close to just cancelling this entire project and leaving that BS SE255 crap cam in the motor. This is really becoming an issue on my end with finding a good honest qualified installer who will NOT talk trash about Zippers products because they couldn't sell me their crap.

Sorry about the rant !!!

[nixobilly]

copout221,

I hear your pain.  Every time I talk to someone at a dealership they seem to think we are stupid or something for using anything but what they have to sell.  (Got a raft a sh*t from one dealer 'cause I didn't replace dunlops with dunlops, went across town to another dealer (looking for a part...) and got chit cause I didn't replace the dunlops with Metz's (I run Avons for the higher load rating).

Regarding the "internet provides wrong information" comment from the tech,  this forum is my PRIMARY source of technical information and support for maintaining/improving my scoot (along with the manuals and beer).  I could have never have replaced my handlebars nor found my head gasket leak without the smart guys here!

I hope you don't give up on these new cams as they would be my next OCD upgrade and 2lane does not want to hear about me whining how hard it is!   

Good luck,

Mark

[erniezap]

Not knowing the 110 and how it differs from the 103, the main reason that us 103 people went with gear drive is to eliminate the cam chain tensioner failures that were happening regularly

[Hoist!]

That makes sense but the dealer said they would NOT have to go into the upper part of the motor if I used adjustable pushrods. Is this possible or does the rocker covers still have to be removed regardless for a proper install ? Also, how long should that take ? The second STEALER I spoke with yesterday quoted another 5-6 hrs labor to pull the rocker box covers / lowers. I HATE that I don't have the knowledge to do this job myself. I DON'T trust what dealers tell me, this is why I am on these forums.

Also, the guy I spoke with yesterday at the STEALER told me to NOT believe everything I read on the internet forums because the information is usually wrong. He also denied that the 110 engines have been having heat related problems in stock form and doesn't know why they would. He also had nothing nice to say about Zippers products after I told him where I was getting the cam 

So I guess CVO owners on these forums are planning a conspiracy to sabotoge the reputation of the new 110 powerplant and are fabricating the problems they have been posting. WHAT A JOKE !!!! I am really close to just cancelling this entire project and leaving that BS SE255 crap cam in the motor. This is really becoming an issue on my end with finding a good honest qualified installer who will NOT talk trash about Zippers products because they couldn't sell me their crap.

Sorry about the rant !!!

Hey CO, you can do the job without removing the rocker boxes, by using the adjustable pushrods, as the dealer stated. There are known issues with the rocker box clearance, even in stock form. Your choice would be to have them removed and clearanced, or let them do the job their way and clearance them under w.....ty if it becomes necessary. The first way, you know the job is done right, but you paid for it. The second way, you don't pay, but risk doing other damage besides just the rocker boxes. I'd do the job right from the beginning if it were my bike. Hoist!

[Unbalanced]

Hoist / Copout,

If you have an issue / possible clearance issue I would recommend that you clearance them from the start,  I had a set that werent clearanced cause they thought they could get away with it on the 05 cherry with a cam change.   The Rocker Box lower cracked and oil went all over the heads burned in / dried and stained the heads.   I still have the heads here and it isnt worth the hassle of hoping you go back and have no issues.   The rockerbox cracked in the corner under the stress where you are supposed to relieve the heads.   

I know it was not a 110, but clearancing is clearancing,

[Hoist!]

Hoist / Copout,

If you have an issue / possible clearance issue I would recommend that you clearance them from the start,  I had a set that werent clearanced cause they thought they could get away with it on the 05 cherry with a cam change.   The Rocker Box lower cracked and oil went all over the heads burned in / dried and stained the heads.   I still have the heads here and it isnt worth the hassle of hoping you go back and have no issues.   The rockerbox cracked in the corner under the stress where you are supposed to relieve the heads.   

I know it was not a 110, but clearancing is clearancing,

Thanks Harry, your English is more eloquent than mine, I guess. That's what I was trying to say to CO in my previous post. If it were my bike, I'd do the job right, from the inception, instead of waiting to see if there's a problem, to avoid paying to have them clearanced. We're on the same page with this! Hoist!

[copout221]

Hey CO, you can do the job without removing the rocker boxes, by using the adjustable pushrods, as the dealer stated. There are known issues with the rocker box clearance, even in stock form. Your choice would be to have them removed and clearanced, or let them do the job their way and clearance them under w.....ty if it becomes necessary. The first way, you know the job is done right, but you paid for it. The second way, you don't pay, but risk doing other damage besides just the rocker boxes. I'd do the job right from the beginning if it were my bike. Hoist!

Yea I agree about having them do it right and pull the rocker box covers to verify there are no clearance issues. I went to my local dealer today and spoke with the G.M (my buddy) who agreed to do the entire job for 6 hours labor which would include pulling the rocker covers/lowers. If there is a clearance issue already they will make a warranty claim and take care of the problem. If that is the case they may be able to charge me less for labor. The only bad part is I will have to wait until May 14th before my bike can go in. Oh well, I will just have to be patient.

[WaSEEG]

Not knowing the 110 and how it differs from the 103, the main reason that us 103 people went with gear drive is to eliminate the cam chain tensioner failures that were happening regularly

While the cam chain tensioner issue was important, I wanted the increase in torque and the improved rideability that went with it.  I was not disappointed.

Dan

[Rhino]

Ok, so how will I know if there is a clearance issue after the install? Does the new cam cause the problem or is it already having a clearance problem with the stock setup (how do I know) ? This is going to be a major issue for me when it comes to getting this covered under warranty. In addition, the dealer quoted another six hours of time to pull the heads and do the grinding. How can that take six hours ? I could probably do it faster !!! This is really confusing, I may have to call John at Zippers to discuss this issue.

I am already running the TMAT and have the new map downloaded for when the new cam is installed. What a PITA this is becoming.

The whole job in Harley Speak is 6 hours on their books, not for clearancing alone. 

Rhino

[copout221]

The whole job in Harley Speak is 6 hours on their books, not for clearancing alone. 

Rhino

They want to charge six hours to install the cam and pushrods. That does NOT include doing anything in the upper part of the motor. Correct me if I am wrong but don't you have to remove the tank and remove the rocker covers to check for proper clearance ??

    MAN I wish I knew how to do this....I am handy but this is way beyond my capability 

[Hoist!]

They want to charge six hours to install the cam and pushrods. That does NOT include doing anything in the upper part of the motor. Correct me if I am wrong but don't you have to remove the tank and remove the rocker covers to check for proper clearance ??

    MAN I wish I knew how to do this....I am handy but this is way beyond my capability 

With the right tools, no you don't. You might have to lift it slightly, but it doesn't get removed. I still don't see how they can quote you a cam job, without checking rocker box clearance. It's a normal part of the job, especially on these motors where the stock chit might need clearancing. If they aren't doing that, I wouldn't let these guys touch my bike! Hoist!

[Twolanerider]

With the right tools, no you don't. You might have to lift it slightly, but it doesn't get removed. I still don't see how they can quote you a cam job, without checking rocker box clearance. It's a normal part of the job, especially on these motors where the stock chit might need clearancing. If they aren't doing that, I wouldn't let these guys touch my bike! Hoist!

It's the QDIM (Quick and Dirty Install Method) Howie.  Cut the old pushrods, put in adjustables, put it all back together.  What doesn't blow up (immediately) is good enough.

[copout221]

It's the QDIM (Quick and Dirty Install Method) Howie.  Cut the old pushrods, put in adjustables, put it all back together.  What doesn't blow up (immediately) is good enough.

 Thats exactly what they want to do..NOT ON MY $34,000 BIKE !!! 

[Twolanerider]

Thats exactly what they want to do..NOT ON MY $34,000 BIKE !!! 

CO, that's one reason I didn't mind at all using those extra heavy very stiff "Pro Taper" pushrods from Zippers.  Apparently there really is little or nothing that improves on the product.  But, even though they're adjustable, they won't fit without having the top off.  Since I would never have done the cam job without taking the top off to eyeball everything anyway it just didn't matter.  QDIM too often leads to ASS OR  (Ass Sitting Side of Road) later on.

[copout221]

CO, that's one reason I didn't mind at all using those extra heavy very stiff "Pro Taper" pushrods from Zippers.  Apparently there really is little or nothing that improves on the product.  But, even though they're adjustable, they won't fit without having the top off.  Since I would never have done the cam job without taking the top off to eyeball everything anyway it just didn't matter.  QDIM too often leads to ASS OR  (Ass Sitting Side of Road) later on.

Thanks, I received the cams and pushrods yesterday. The rods seem very high quality compared to the HD brand that the dealer was trying to sell me. I just wish I could find a reputable installer who will NOT cut corners OR rob me blind. Don't get me wrong, I have no issue paying to have the clearance issues checked / resolved BUT I will not be charged another six hours of labor to do this. I have to draw the line somewhere. Besides, the dealer who was able to do the job next week called me today and asked me to take the bike soemwhere else because their "A" mechanics refused to the do the job to my specifications and did not want to work with Zippers products. They only felt comfortable working with HD and SE stuff. They can pound sand and are lucky I don't post the name and location of them on this forum.

[nixobilly]

copout221,

I believe I have read in several threads here that Bumpus HD in Memphis has a top-notch service guy, why dont you give them a call, it might be worth your time to take your bike there since you are pretty close.

Mark

[Hoist!]

Thanks, I received the cams and pushrods yesterday. The rods seem very high quality compared to the HD brand that the dealer was trying to sell me. I just wish I could find a reputable installer who will NOT cut corners OR rob me blind. Don't get me wrong, I have no issue paying to have the clearance issues checked / resolved BUT I will not be charged another six hours of labor to do this. I have to draw the line somewhere. Besides, the dealer who was able to do the job next week called me today and asked me to take the bike soemwhere else because their "A" mechanics refused to the do the job to my specifications and did not want to work with Zippers products. They only felt comfortable working with HD and SE stuff. They can pound sand and are lucky I don't post the name and location of them on this forum.

CO, if you're putting cams in, you're blowing your engine w....ty anyway. Find a really reputable independent shop in your area to do the work. I'm sure there are guys in your area that can recommend one. You don't need the dealer for this, especially if they're willing to use the QDIM method! They can do the cams, Dyno Tune it, and get it running right! Hoist!

[Rhino]

CO, if you're putting cams in, you're blowing your engine w....ty anyway.

Hoist, you are wrong on that one about warranty.  The law in this country won't allow it, the warranty stands on everything except the parts that are non harley.  I don't want to discuss this any further, the dealer can say what they want, but the bottom line is that they would have to determine that the cams, in this case, if there was a problem, was remotely connected to a failure. I think not, I think that the potential problem goes to the installer, and if it was a harley dealer, they must stand behind it. I seriously doubt that the parts are going to fail, unless it was installed improperly.

Rhino

[Hoist!]

Hoist, you are wrong on that one about warranty.  The law in this country won't allow it, the warranty stands on everything except the parts that are non harley.  I don't want to discuss this any further, the dealer can say what they want, but the bottom line is that they would have to determine that the cams, in this case, if there was a problem, was remotely connected to a failure. I think not, I think that the potential problem goes to the installer, and if it was a harley dealer, they must stand behind it. I seriously doubt that the parts are going to fail, unless it was installed improperly.

Rhino

Well, I don't argue w....ty anymore either, but if you take a street legal vehicle and convert it with parts made for "off road use only", I don't think you have much of a leg to stand on. You'd at least be in for a battle. If that dealer is going to perform the crappy job that's been described here, why go thru all of that at all. Get the job done right and don't worry about it! Hoist!

[cigarmike]

That makes sense but the dealer said they would NOT have to go into the upper part of the motor if I used adjustable pushrods. Is this possible or does the rocker covers still have to be removed regardless for a proper install ?
Sorry about the rant !!!

Maybe talk to hd-dude?, he has put in a few cams, with adjustable push rods,  including mine, didnt take that long, it was a little scary watching him pull out a big azz pair of bolt cutters and heading towards my bike, I was thinking WTF !!! lol. it only hurt for a second. Why tear apart the top of the motor unless you think you actually have a clearance problem?, I also saw the chunks of the cam chain tensioners floating around when he got into the enigine. I'd go with gear drive now no matter what after seeing that. GL with how ever you do it.

[Fired00d]

Maybe talk to hd-dude?, he has put in a few cams, with adjustable push rods,  including mine, didnt take that long, it was a little scary watching him pull out a big azz pair of bolt cutters and heading towards my bike, I was thinking WTF !!! lol. it only hurt for a second. Why tear apart the top of the motor unless you think you actually have a clearance problem?, I also saw the chunks of the cam chain tensioners floating around when he got into the enigine. I'd go with gear drive now no matter what after seeing that. GL with how ever you do it.

Mike,
It's times like that when you wish you weren't able to see what the wrench is doing to your bike. As you stated can be awful frightening to see someone coming near your bike w/big a$$ pair of bolt cutters.

You're right on about going to gear drives vs the chain driven cams. The uncertainty of when they tensioners will go out is not worth the risk. The hardest decision was to find the cam/s that I wanted to put in my bike. Then when I found there were some specifically designed for my bike that would bolt in my decision was made.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[cigarmike]

Also, the guy I spoke with yesterday at the STEALER told me to NOT believe everything I read on the internet forums because the information is usually wrong. He also denied that the 110 engines have been having heat related problems in stock form and doesn't know why they would. He also had nothing nice to say about Zippers products after I told him where I was getting the cam 

So I guess CVO owners on these forums are planning a conspiracy to sabotoge the reputation of the new 110 powerplant and are fabricating the problems they have been posting. WHAT A JOKE !!!!
Sorry about the rant !!!

Copout, I actually had a MoCo factory rep, to my face , tell me the same chit about the bad paint on the '06's, so yea, Im sure all the guys here, who got their paint replaced are all lieing and /or was all in my mind? If I were you, Id not believe a word that MoCo says. period, I have seen and experience their flat out lies and smoke screens personally many times now. In CVOHARLEY.com we trust.

[hd-dude]

Maybe talk to hd-dude?, he has put in a few cams, with adjustable push rods,  including mine, didnt take that long, it was a little scary watching him pull out a big azz pair of bolt cutters and heading towards my bike, I was thinking WTF !!! lol. it only hurt for a second. Why tear apart the top of the motor unless you think you actually have a clearance problem?, I also saw the chunks of the cam chain tensioners floating around when he got into the enigine. I'd go with gear drive now no matter what after seeing that. GL with how ever you do it.

Exactly right! The 103 motors never had any issues with clearance from stock springs. When using a "bolt-in" cam like the 575 or FCC products there is no reason to pull them. On other builds when you are running higher lift cams you do need to verify clearance.

On the 110's with known clearance issues I would never do a cam without checking the clearances in the rockers.

[Ghost Rider]

I apologize in advance for bringing up the w*****ty word, but why should there be any discussion about CO paying for having the rocker boxes repaired if there is a clearance issue.  This is a brand new bike!  You take the thing to the service department, you tell them there is noise in the rocker boxes and you want them to check for any clearance issues.  They open her up, find the issue and fix it (under w*****ty), or they find nothing.  Isn't that why they have the word "service" in their name.

 

I don't mean to rant, but I am so sick and tired of my bike, and some of your bikes, spending more time in a service bay, than on the road.  And it really p***es me off to hear about money grubbing dealerships squeezing us for even more money when we've already made them too much money.

I need a beer!   

Ghost

[Hoist!]

I apologize in advance for bringing up the w*****ty word, but why should there be any discussion about CO paying for having the rocker boxes repaired if there is a clearance issue.  This is a brand new bike!  You take the thing to the service department, you tell them there is noise in the rocker boxes and you want them to check for any clearance issues.  They open her up, find the issue and fix it (under w*****ty), or they find nothing.  Isn't that why they have the word "service" in their name.

 

I don't mean to rant, but I am so sick and tired of my bike, and some of your bikes, spending more time in a service bay, than on the road.  And it really p***es me off to hear about money grubbing dealerships squeezing us for even more money when we've already made them too much money.

I need a beer!   

Ghost

See what you started Travis! Maybe our days in the shop, more than they're out of the shop, are behind us. And just in time for the weather too. My bike's running great right now. All it has to do now is stay that way! Hoist!

[Twolanerider]

Exactly right! The 103 motors never had any issues with clearance from stock springs. When using a "bolt-in" cam like the 575 or FCC products there is no reason to pull them. On other builds when you are running higher lift cams you do need to verify clearance.

On the 110's with known clearance issues I would never do a cam without checking the clearances in the rockers.

Why?  Just to be sure.

Granted, I was replacing the rocker boxes with better looking pieces anyway.  But, on my own for just the one job, I'd have done it anyway.  By the way, claying them up, when just the 575s were done, the closest point was about 1/32".  That happened to be in an area where the casting wasn't completely clean.  It was an area that I could easily see varying from one casting to another.  It was certainly clearance.  But it was a little less than I expected to find.

[Hoist!]

Why?  Just to be sure.

Granted, I was replacing the rocker boxes with better looking pieces anyway.  But, on my own for just the one job, I'd have done it anyway.  By the way, claying them up, when just the 575s were done, the closest point was about 1/32".  That happened to be in an area where the casting wasn't completely clean.  It was an area that I could easily see varying from one casting to another.  It was certainly clearance.  But it was a little less than I expected to find.

You'll only know that if you check it and like Jim said, I'd never consider doing cams on a 110" without checking this! Hoist

[Twolanerider]

You'll only know that if you check it and like Jim said, I'd never consider doing cams on a 110" without checking this! Hoist

I guess the difference is that I'd never consider changing cams and valve train geometry, especially when using parts I'd not used before, without checking it on any motor.

On the 110 from what we've read here it's an absolute; or it should be.  Even in stock form for many.  But given the relatively small amount of clearance there was on mine, for example, I was certainly glad I'd checked it.  There was also a LOT of material in the close area that could be relieved without harm of any kind.

[copout221]

 I went to my primary dealer today and showed the tech who will be working on my bike the new cams and pushrods from Zippers. As soon as he looked at the pushrods he said "I cannot put those in unless I pull the top end." I asked him how much more labor it would be and he said the entire job should be no more than 7 hrs. HOWEVER, he did agree that if there is an obvious clearance issue (before the new cam) observed after removing the rocker covers it should be covered under Wa....ty and I should save some money on labor and gaskets. He said he would have to call tech to find out what they want done to correct the clearance issue.

 So I proceeded to discuss the issue with the G.M of the dealership who said he would do the entire job for six hours if there is no clearance Wa....ty issues. He did this because I just referred ANOTHER friend to him who closed a deal on a Heritage today.

Bottom Line: Get the bike in and let them tear it apart to find out what will be involved. I am just in a holding pattern right now until May 14th!!!

[Ghost Rider]

See what you started Travis! Maybe our days in the shop, more than they're out of the shop, are behind us. And just in time for the weather too. My bike's running great right now. All it has to do now is stay that way! Hoist!

I hope your right Howie.  I've been sitting here all day waiting on the dealer to call me and let me know how long they'll be holding Raquel (thats what I've named her) this time.  Its just very frustrating to be sitting here on another nice weekend without anything to ride by my wife's sporty.  And she makes me ride bitch.  Man thats embarrasing!!   

Later,
Ghost

[Hoist!]

I hope your right Howie.  I've been sitting here all day waiting on the dealer to call me and let me know how long they'll be holding Raquel (thats what I've named her) this time.  Its just very frustrating to be sitting here on another nice weekend without anything to ride by my wife's sporty.  And she makes me ride bitch.  Man thats embarrasing!!   

Later,
Ghost

Ouch Travis!!! That should be enough motivation for your dealer to get you finished. Unless, that is, he doesn't like you! Hoist!

[erniezap]

I hope your right Howie.  I've been sitting here all day waiting on the dealer to call me and let me know how long they'll be holding Raquel (thats what I've named her) this time.  Its just very frustrating to be sitting here on another nice weekend without anything to ride by my wife's sporty.  And she makes me ride bitch.  Man thats embarrasing!!   

Later,
Ghost

 

[Ghost Rider]

Ouch Travis!!! That should be enough motivation for your dealer to get you finished. Unless, that is, he doesn't like you! Hoist!

Trust me, they should be sick and tired of hearing me bitch about it.  You feel like your stuck in a no win situation.  You don't push them and the bike just sits there, you push them too hard and they slap the thing back together just to get it out the door and shut you up.  Whats a guy to do? 

Trust me earnie, a guy my size riding bitch on a hugger is something nobody wants to see.  Nobody!

[Twolanerider]

Travis, what's going on with CC and the Road King?  Based on what you'd said before I was so hoping they'd gotten away from one of their worst old habits of just never getting stuff right enough or quick enough to actually have it done.  When the shop was that way before the only way I could get both a job completed and know it wouldn't be just thrown together was to go to Scott.  Sucked to have to do it.   But when they were at their worst that was the only way to get a response out of the shop.

[SPIDERMAN]

Not knowing the 110 and how it differs from the 103, the main reason that us 103 people went with gear drive is to eliminate the cam chain tensioner failures that were happening regularly

Performance and noise issues too Ernie

B B

[Twolanerider]

Okay, here's what I got.

I put on Rinehart TDs with quiet baffles, SERT, SE251 cams, and big sucker A/C.

119 and 123.  Nice.  And 100/100 by 2800-ish with all in still in the pass-a-truck range.  Got to be fun to ride  .

[Ghost Rider]

Does anyone have dyno results for the 110 motor with the 575 cam installed? I would love to see what the bike is putting out with tru-dual Rineharts, high flow, TMAT, and 575 cam. I just ordered this cam and have been told that the results are incredible but I would love to see it on paper. 

I'm going to try this again.

Here is my dyno sheet.

[Fired00d]

test

[redtwin]

ghost rider you got that hp/tq with se-251 ? those are good numbers

[Twolanerider]

I'm going to try this again.

Here is my dyno sheet.

Travis, the site will attach PDF files but it won't display them.  Here is Ghost Rider's dyno sheet displayed.

[Ghost Rider]

Don,

Thanks, I tried coverting the pdf to a jpg, but when I posted to the thread everthing puked.  I am still not sure anyone can see page 3 of this thread.

Anyway,  Here is a list of all the mods I did.

Rinehart True Duals
Arlen Ness Big Sucker A/C
SERT
SE251 cams
SE adjustable pushrods
CP 10.5:1 pistons
Horse Power Inc. 51MM throttle body

I'm very happy with the numbers, and even more happy with the ride.
This is me going down the highway...

Later,
Ghost

[Tros]

Did page 3 go off topic and get moved to another thread?  It sure is gone from this one.

[Twolanerider]

Did page 3 go off topic and get moved to another thread?  It sure is gone from this one.

Someone obviously pushed the mystery button.

[IronButt]

Trust me, they should be sick and tired of hearing me bitch about it.  You feel like your stuck in a no win situation.  You don't push them and the bike just sits there, you push them too hard and they slap the thing back together just to get it out the door and shut you up.  Whats a guy to do? 

Trust me earnie, a guy my size riding bitch on a hugger is something nobody wants to see.  Nobody!

I would pay $$$$$ to see it! 

IB

[IronButt]

ghost rider you got that hp/tq with se-251 ? those are good numbers

He is also at 10.5:1 compression VS 9.3:1 stock and a 51mm intake VS 46mm stock. I run the same cam with stock compression, filter and intake and get 102hp and 110tq

It is a good HD cam.

IB

[Ghost Rider]

I would pay $$$$$ to see it! 

IB

Man, I'm not sure which is worse, you offering money to see that, or me considering taking it?      

And I agree, the cams are good, but the pistons and throttle body are the bomb.   

Later,
Ghost

[IronButt]

Man, I'm not sure which is worse, you offering money to see that, or me considering taking it?      

And I agree, the cams are good, but the pistons and throttle body are the bomb.   

Later,
Ghost

$5.00 for a look
$10.00 for a Photo 

IB

[Unbalanced]

Ghostrider,

Great numbers sure hope your on the latest version of the Race Tuner so that you can enable the compression releases for starting the bike

Did they do any work to the heads when you did this build?

Did you use larger injectors or your factory injectors in the larger throttle body?

[Ghost Rider]

Unbalanced,

The only head work was to solve the valve spring clearance issue.

Factory injectors, I believe this was the largest throttle body I could use without changing the injectors.

Later,
Ghost

[Unbalanced]

Ghostrider,

Those are great numbers for no headwork other than clearancing the rocker boxes, a cam and 51 mm throttlebody.

It would put a smile on most guys faces

[Ghost Rider]

Ghostrider,

Those are great numbers for no headwork other than clearancing the rocker boxes, a cam and 51 mm throttlebody.

It would put a smile on most guys faces

Thanks, I've been very happy with it so far.  The acceleration is pretty cool.   

[Twolanerider]

It would put a smile on most guys faces

Harry, I saw the grin on his face last Saturday.  His bike and mine made a Saturday ride together.  It sounds as good as it runs too.  Great sound out of it and just a sweet looking bike.  Hard not to like a red SERK  .

[Ghost Rider]

Harry, I saw the grin on his face last Saturday.  His bike and mine made a Saturday ride together.  It sounds as good as it runs too.  Great sound out of it and just a sweet looking bike.  Hard not to like a red SERK  .

Which reminds me, Thanks, I had a lot of fun Saturday.  Its been a long time since I've been able to get out and ride like that.   

I'm surprised you were ever able to hear the bike.  It seemed like I spent a majority of the day waaayyy behind you.  I occasionally get caught site seeing and/or day dreaming.     But that does allow me the opportunity to open her up a little to get caught back up.  So its all good.

Later,
Ghost

[Hoist!]

Which reminds me, Thanks, I had a lot of fun Saturday.  Its been a long time since I've been able to get out and ride like that.   

I'm surprised you were ever able to hear the bike.  It seemed like I spent a majority of the day waaayyy behind you.  I occasionally get caught site seeing and/or day dreaming.     But that does allow me the opportunity to open her up a little to get caught back up.  So its all good.

Later,
Ghost

What, how did that happen with a Hi-comp, all cammed up, 110" SERK vs. that heavy FD with a little old 103" Travis? Something's wrong with this picture! Hoist!

[Unbalanced]

2Lane,

Did you guys have the opportunity at least once or twice to roll on the throttle a little bit?   Curious how the bikes faired / compared on the tostesterone runs?   103 muscle kit vs. 110 light hop up.

If memory serves me right I thought it was 120/120 2lane and 123 /117 GhostRider  Totally different gearing in the bikes although the same strokes.

[Twolanerider]

2Lane,

Did you guys have the opportunity at least once or twice to roll on the throttle a little bit?   Curious how the bikes faired / compared on the tostesterone runs?   103 muscle kit vs. 110 light hop up.

If memory serves me right I thought it was 120/120 2lane and 123 /117 GhostRider  Totally different gearing in the bikes although the same strokes.

Harry, sorry but no we didn't.  It really was just an "out farting around" kind of day and that's about all we did.  Next time we get a chance I'll see if Travis would be willing to swap bikes for a few miles so we can compare notes on how each of the engines/drivetrains feel in their current trim.  Honestly don't know why we didn't think of it Saturday.  Just having too much fun doing nothing I guess  .

[Ghost Rider]

What, how did that happen with a Hi-comp, all cammed up, 110" SERK vs. that heavy FD with a little old 103" Travis? Something's wrong with this picture! Hoist!

Its all about the rider Howie.  I am still feeling her out a little, especially on twisty tourney roads.  Plus, I had a cager playing with his radio and coming around a corner in my lane almost kill me a few years ago.  I still get a little flinchy going around blind S curves.     Trust me, its not the bike.  I'll let Don take it for a test ride and give you a full report.

Just a side note: if you take any trips with not Don, you just as well plan on it taking a lot longer than normal.  Every stop has to include 20 minutes to get all the gawkers shewed away from the red bike.  And now that he has that pimp daddy ostrich seat.  You just as well add another 5 minutes to that.   

Oh, I guy did mention in passing that I had a nice bike too.  I guess I should hang around with GW's if I want to get my bike noticed.   

Later,
Ghost

[Twolanerider]

Its all about the rider Howie.  I am still feeling her out a little, especially on twisty tourney roads.  Plus, I had a cager playing with his radio and coming around a corner in my lane almost kill me a few years ago.  I still get a little flinchy going around blind S curves.     Trust me, its not the bike.  I'll let Don take it for a test ride and give you a full report.

Just a side note: if you take any trips with not Don, you just as well plan on it taking a lot longer than normal.  Every stop has to include 20 minutes to get all the gawkers shewed away from the red bike.  And now that he has that pimp daddy ostrich seat.  You just as well add another 5 minutes to that.   

Oh, I guy did mention in passing that I had a nice bike too.  I guess I should hang around with GW's if I want to get my bike noticed.   

Later,
Ghost

That one pair of guys was funny with their passing "oh, and yours is nice too" thing they threw in as they walked off.  Was like they thought they might get booted if they didn't say something.  The ironic part is I think the brighter red on your SERK jumps out and catches a lot more attention than does the darker reds of the SEEG.  If I was walking up to the two of them together yours would be the one that caught my eye first every time. 

Most everyone gets hung up on the red diamond cut motor though.  It could be mounted in a wheel barrel and people would still oooh and ahhh over it.  Guess I've kind of gotten used to it now.  But that top end does catch people's attention.

[Hoist!]

Its all about the rider Howie.  I am still feeling her out a little, especially on twisty tourney roads.  Plus, I had a cager playing with his radio and coming around a corner in my lane almost kill me a few years ago.  I still get a little flinchy going around blind S curves.     Trust me, its not the bike.  I'll let Don take it for a test ride and give you a full report.

Just a side note: if you take any trips with not Don, you just as well plan on it taking a lot longer than normal.  Every stop has to include 20 minutes to get all the gawkers shewed away from the red bike.  And now that he has that pimp daddy ostrich seat.  You just as well add another 5 minutes to that.   

Oh, I guy did mention in passing that I had a nice bike too.  I guess I should hang around with GW's if I want to get my bike noticed.   

Later,
Ghost

Hey Travis, take a ride to Clinton next Thurs morning with Don! I'll be happy to give it a full test ride for you! Pssst...tell Don, NO ANCHORS ALLOWED! Hoist!

[Ghost Rider]

Hey Travis, take a ride to Clinton next Thurs morning with Don! I'll be happy to give it a full test ride for you! Pssst...tell Don, NO ANCHORS ALLOWED! Hoist!

Dang it Howie don't tempt me... ...thinking about it.

Hey Don, can you PM me your riding plans for next week?  I'll see if I can get away from work.  I forgot to mention that upon further review, those red wheels we saw at Pigtrail (or something similar) would really look nice on the red bike.   

Later,
Ghost

[Twolanerider]

Dang it Howie don't tempt me... ...thinking about it.

Hey Don, can you PM me your riding plans for next week?  I'll see if I can get away from work.  I forgot to mention that upon further review, those red wheels we saw at Pigtrail (or something similar) would really look nice on the red bike.   

Later,
Ghost

Travis, I plan to leave here Thursday somewhere around 8:30-ish.  The third gas stop would be Clinton, KY so would arrive mid to late afternoon even with a lunch stop.  Will take US 60 across southern MO.

Friday will ride out with Howie whatever direction he happens to be going and make a day of it.  Then sometime Saturday (maybe lunch time?) will hang a u-ie and head back toward SW Missouri.  I just need to be back here Sunday to catch a flight out Monday morning.

We could even head back this way first thing Saturday to be home Saturday night.  Miss an overnight somewhere and have you home a day quicker.

C'mon, you know you're wanting an excuse to fill that fancy leather tour pak with road stuff  .

[Ghost Rider]

Travis, I plan to leave here Thursday somewhere around 8:30-ish.  The third gas stop would be Clinton, KY so would arrive mid to late afternoon even with a lunch stop.  Will take US 60 across southern MO.

Friday will ride out with Howie whatever direction he happens to be going and make a day of it.  Then sometime Saturday (maybe lunch time?) will hang a u-ie and head back toward SW Missouri.  I just need to be back here Sunday to catch a flight out Monday morning.

We could even head back this way first thing Saturday to be home Saturday night.  Miss an overnight somewhere and have you home a day quicker.

C'mon, you know you're wanting an excuse to fill that fancy leather tour pak with road stuff  .

I seem to recall reading the actual thread for this trip (I guess we hijacked this one) that Howie is buying the first night we arrive.     If that is still true, I'm in.  I have to get actual approval from the boss (wife, not work).  I will let you know as soon as I know.

[Fired00d]

I seem to recall reading the actual thread for this trip (I guess we hijacked this one) that Howie is buying the first night we arrive.      If that is still true, I'm in.  I have to get actual approval from the boss (wife, not work).  I will let you know as soon as I know.

Hmm, interesting. Since he will be meeting different members each day/night that would make it the first night for somebody every night on this trip. So does that mean Howie buys everynight?? The things that make you go "Hmmmm".

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Twolanerider]

Hmm, interesting. Since he will be meeting different members each day/night that would make it the first night for somebody every night on this trip. So does that mean Howie buys everynight?? The things that make you go "Hmmmm".

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

D00d, you mean you missed the new "Howie Buys" rule awhile back.  It's not just this trip either.  Here, Hot Springs, everywhere man!  Everywhere!

[Fired00d]

D00d, you mean you missed the new "Howie Buys" rule awhile back.  It's not just this trip either.  Here, Hot Springs, everywhere man!  Everywhere!

Wow!!! It might just be worth it to attend any ride he's going on.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Ghost Rider]

Hmm, interesting. Since he will be meeting different members each day/night that would make it the first night for somebody every night on this trip. So does that mean Howie buys everynight?? The things that make you go "Hmmmm".

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

Since Hoist is currently not logged on, I say YES, Howie buys each night.    Its only fair none of us would be doing this ride, if he hadn't started it.  "No good deed goes unpunished."

Now, who can we talk/force into buying the cigars.....

[Unbalanced]

Wow I can't believe it GhostRider just volunteered to buy the cigars ...   very very nice.

[Ghost Rider]

Wow I can't believe it GhostRider just volunteered to buy the cigars ...   very very nice.

   thats not exactly what I meant.

I've got two words for you "Swisher Sweets."  Anything pricier than that and your on your own.

[Tros]

  thats not exactly what I meant.

I've got two words for you "Swisher Sweets."  Anything pricier than that and your on your own.

Now in strawberry flavor.......

[Ghost Rider]

Now in strawberry flavor.......

Yes, and the box matches my bike so well.    (sorry no dancing strawberry available at this time)

[Tros]

Yes, and the box matches my bike so well.    (sorry no dancing strawberry available at this time)

  thefastestcigarsyoucangetanywhereontheplanet.   

[Hoist!]

I don't know why anyone would need an excuse to take a fun ride, but I'll go along! Anyone that shows up, I buy their first drink! Hoist!

BTW, how the hell did this stuff wind up here anyway?

[Unbalanced]

Q) How did this end up here?    A)    GhostRider hijack is your answer Howie.

GhostRider I can't believe you said you were supplying Cuban Cigars for the ride, wow that's pretty nice of ya 

[Ghost Rider]

Hey Travis, take a ride to Clinton next Thurs morning with Don! I'll be happy to give it a full test ride for you! Pssst...tell Don, NO ANCHORS ALLOWED! Hoist!

Your Honor I object!! 

The above quote clearly shows where Hoist hijacked this thread.

Finally, if it will make everyone happy, I will ride to Cuba, MO. and pick up some cigars.  I don't know why everyone is so found of their cigars, heck I didn't even know they made cigars. 

Later,
Ghost

[Unbalanced]

GhostRider,

So what type of Cigars did you pick up for the gang?      I know they are anxiously awaiting to hear.

[Ghost Rider]

GhostRider,

So what type of Cigars did you pick up for the gang?      I know they are anxiously awaiting to hear.

Dude, I live in Joplin, MO.  Seriously, the only cigars they sell here are Swishers.  I'm open to requests if anyone would like to make one.