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[DavidB]

The 12.5 inch 440 Hd put a stop to a lot of kickstand draging around corners. I ride 2 up most of the time. When solo the HD shocks are still a lot less harsh than the stock shocks and  now bike feels like its on rails.

[Twolanerider]

The rear suspension on the touring bikes is another area where a decision made for production by HD really escapes me.

Shocks of a type like the Progressives are undeniably better.  They will also require less regular maintenance by the rider just because they won't leak down like the air shocks do.  They're safer and more comfortable for the rider.  There is less overall maintenance due to the lack of air lines and fittings.  They would install on the assembly line faster (also due to the lack of air lines).   But yet we've had the air shocks on the touring bikes for years; even on the front for a few years.

Can they be that much cheaper to manufacturre?  And, even if there is a significant difference, how much cost is worth the difference in handling and the safety thereby accrued?

[mfgreen]

The rear suspension on the touring bikes is another area where a decision made for production by HD really escapes me.

Shocks of a type like the Progressives are undeniably better.  They will also require less regular maintenance by the rider just because they won't leak down like the air shocks do.  They're safer and more comfortable for the rider.  There is less overall maintenance due to the lack of air lines and fittings.  They would install on the assembly line faster (also due to the lack of air lines).   But yet we've had the air shocks on the touring bikes for years; even on the front for a few years.

Can they be that much cheaper to manufacturre?  And, even if there is a significant difference, how much cost is worth the difference in handling and the safety thereby accrued?

Now Now two lane rider....
 The point you are making is valid and the shock by Showa that is used is significantly cheaper.  Harley Davidson is so locked into the decxades old design of what they make that technology that will markedly improve your handling, braking or rideability of these bikes is your responsibility....not the MoCo's.  Remember, this bike is just a platform.  Sort of a do-it-yourself starter kit.  The MoCo does not give two hoots about it because it sells.  The most advanced platform offering that will get any play in that area is the V-Rod.  That is where you would possibly see any area of significant technical offerings that are even in the same decade of technology that is accepted in the Harley circles of riders.   Most of the H-D constituents are having a hard enough time accepting the hydroformed frame that the V-Rod has.
With regards to maintenance, I think that the MoCO and the dealers feel that it is a good thing that the shocks require maintenance, especially by them, for you, as a customer are looked as a revenue source each and every time you walk through the door.  It's why it's so difficult to get a straight answer to a question.  They can't charge for the answer unless they are currently selling something to you.  And even then, the money does not guarantee a straight answer.

[110tHunDer]

Can they be that much cheaper to manufacturre?

[DavidB]

With regards to maintenance, I think that the MoCO and the dealers feel that it is a good thing that the shocks require maintenance, especially by them, for you, as a customer are looked as a revenue source each and every time you walk through the door.

[BLM777]

Amen Bro's for MFG and 2Lane.......HD is undeniably basing their product design, improvements and disgustingly absent concern for consumer satisfaction singularly upon profitability.  Couple that corporate motivation with an arrogant and condescending attitude spawned by the "only game in town" phenomenon and you can end up with a CVO unit that allows you to invest another 3-5k  to get it to a semi custom look, adequate handling and perfomance to the level of the HD ads.   Hmmmmmm.....lots' of room for one, or several of the up and coming "Davids" to hit ol' Goliath repeatedly, right between the running lights.

[DavidB]

DavidB, did you ever think posting your photos would end up in a 4+ page thread with as many twists and turns as this one?[/quote

I changed the crappy grips the other day that were causing hand cramps. Maybe I should post a pic of the new ones and see were that takes this thread .

[mfgreen]

Amen Bro's for MFG and 2Lane.......HD is undeniably basing their product design, improvements and disgustingly absent concern for consumer satisfaction singularly upon profitability.  Couple that corporate motivation with an arrogant and condescending attitude spawned by the "only game in town" phenomenon and you can end up with a CVO unit that allows you to invest another 3-5k  to get it to a semi custom look, adequate handling and perfomance to the level of the HD ads.   Hmmmmmm.....lots' of room for one, or several of the up and coming "Davids" to hit ol' Goliath repeatedly, right between the running lights.

Sometimes, when I look at the new Harley Davidson ad with the empty garage, I wonder if Harley Davidson is poking fun at the consumer (us) by saying that their product is all a figment of our imagination.  Imagining that we are buying the best that they can build.  Imagining that they are offering a safe bike  Imagining that the brakes work as well as they can  Imagining that the chrome isn't pealing.  Imagining that the paint isn't flawed.  Imagining that the factory gives a damn what we think.....we already bought into the imagination.

[lugnut]

There here but to dam cold to go in the garage and play.

Well today is the day. 60* outside ( warmer than jacksonville ) Wondering if I do one at a time or take both off then install new ones. Guess I'll find out once i pull that first bolt. Using two jacks. One under the frame and the other under the rear tire. Wish me luck. I'LL BE BACK

[mfgreen]

Well today is the day. 60* outside ( warmer than jacksonville ) Wondering if I do one at a time or take both off then install new ones. Guess I'll find out once i pull that first bolt. Using two jacks. One under the frame and the other under the rear tire. Wish me luck. I'LL BE BACK

Lucked out with the weather......hoping that the changeover is as good to you.  With two jacks, I think that either method will work.....I would opt for the most stable.

[mfgreen]

One more thought, if you remove the existing shock on one side, I believe that the new shock should line up pretty darn close to be able to put it in its place and torque it down.  Then movin' to the other side should produce the same great results.

[lugnut]

That was a mindless job. 10 minutes  Just was thinking of all the possibilty. Took one side off and it didn't line up ( 12.5 ) Then took othere side off and lowered the jack under the tire. OK next question. Don't have battery in and still salt laying around on the roads for me to go for a ride. Were did you end up on the adjustment. Screwed mine down two turns to start. I noticed they can turn up 7 times before it took a effert to turn. ( bike was still on the jack. Thanks for the help and support.

[lugnut]

Think I can tackle the fluid change in the forks next? I know I can but think to much. With "you all" support anythings possible. THANKS

[mfgreen]

Think I can tackle the fluid change in the forks next? I know I can but think to much. With "you all" support anythings possible. THANKS

Congratulations, glad you did not have to post in "them thar tools".  Yeah you can do the front end.  It will take you longer than the 10 minutes you just spent.  Plan on 1 to 2 hours with it and you are going to be just fine.

[lugnut]

hope not to big