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[Twolanerider]

Brian,

Typically this is how it is done for best numbers.

5 speed the best number pull is in 4th gear
6 speed the best number pull is in 5th gear    

With the difference being best numbers; not even comparison.  Or at least as even as they can be.

[110tHunDer]

Unless you're talking about the Baker six speed no.  Compare gear ratios not the assigned number.

5th gear on a (Harley) six speed is 1:1.  4th gear on any five speed bike is not 1:1.  So it's not an even comparison.

Yeah, so the point I'm trying to make is . . . . . aren't dyno runs typically done in 4th gear, which is >1:1?  Harry is touting the numbers in the one hundred teens, but the run in 4th gear produced numbers in the 105/107 range (going from memory here).  Aren't the 4th gear runs a better comparison to other posted results here on the site?

[Twolanerider]

  Aren't the 4th gear runs a better comparison to other posted results here on the site?

Yes.  That's the norm for comparison and the numbers considered "legit."  There are always variances of course. But running in taller gears is generally considered fudging the numbers a bit.  It's all curb racing anyway.  So big whoop.  But going up a gear is the all too common easy way to bring the numbers up a bit that often isn't noticed or known.

[Unbalanced]

Don,

Correct even as they can be your right it is curb side racing that is why timed dyno's in seconds tell you a little bit more of the story.   On the Roadking that has the Baker 6 speed with and .80 6th gear and has the R2 gearing as well so tall first and 2nd.   Michelle's 6 speed is Screaming Eagle with I believe it is .86 6th gear.  

[110tHunDer]

Yes.  That's the norm for comparison and the numbers considered "legit."  There are always variances of course. But running in taller gears is generally considered fudging the numbers a bit.  It's all curb racing anyway.  So big whoop.  But going up a gear is the all too common easy way to bring the numbers up a bit that often isn't noticed or known.

I gotta get better at getting my point across.   That's where I was at about a dozen posts ago.

[Twolanerider]

Don,

Correct even as they can be that is why most do the pulls in best gear other than the top gear whether it be 5th or 6th.   On the Roadking that has the Baker 6 speed with and .80 6th gear and has the R2 gearing as well so tall first and 2nd.   Michelle's 6 speed is Screaming Eagle with I believe it is .86 6th gear.  

Of course Harry.  There are so darned many variances that it's always just curb racing.  Always only for fun anyway.  If anyone really lives off dyno sheets they also probably spend a lot of time with the daytime soap operas as well.  The Bakers make a difference of course because they're geared entirely differnetly.  1:1 in 6th with the sprocket change compensating even further.  Get things like that in the mix and there is no such thing as an absolutely even comparison.  So you just go with and have fun.  Don't fudge too much.  After all, the butt-meter is all that really matters anyway.  Dyno runs are diagnostic.  More than that is just sport.

[Unbalanced]

Yeah, so the point I'm trying to make is . . . . . aren't dyno runs typically done in 4th gear, which is >1:1?  Harry is touting the numbers in the one hundred teens, but the run in 4th gear produced numbers in the 105/107 range (going from memory here).  Aren't the 4th gear runs a better comparison to other posted results here on the site?

Brian,

Doubtful as a fair comparison to other dyno sheets here I would bet most of them are done in 4 on the 5 speeds and 5th on the 6 speeds.   I would venture to say that if not all the vast majority of the 07 Ultra dyno sheets were done in 5th gear based on the numbers.

[Twolanerider]

Brian,

Doubtful as a fair comparison to other dyno sheets here I would bet most of them are done in 4 on the 5 speeds and 5th on the 6 speeds.   I would venture to say that if not all the vast majority of the 07 Ultra dyno sheets were done in 5th gear based on the numbers.

More than that, a lot of riders never know.  The guys running the dynos, especially the mobile units at the rallies, want to make their customers happy.  So they'll tell people about how good the numbers were and get more guys to come pay and spin.  The bike owner doesn't know how it's done.  He doesn't know what the dyno operator is doing.  And quite frankly he doesn't care.  He comes away with his pretty piece of paper and he's just oh so (uninformed and) happy.

[Unbalanced]

Of course Harry.  There are so darned many variances that it's always just curb racing.  Always only for fun anyway.  If anyone really lives off dyno sheets they also probably spend a lot of time with the daytime soap operas as well.  The Bakers make a difference of course because they're geared entirely differnetly.  1:1 in 6th with the sprocket change compensating even further.  Get things like that in the mix and there is no such thing as an absolutely even comparison.  So you just go with and have fun.  Don't fudge too much.  After all, the butt-meter is all that really matters anyway.  Dyno runs are diagnostic.  More than that is just sport.

There is one other consideration that you have when running the baker tranny and that is there is a cost of hp to drive it over say a HD tranny.   I was talking with Mike Stegmann of Latus last week about this and it is a percentage he said an additional 4 to 6 percent you give up to drive that transmission.   Butt dyno is good, timed is good to see how quickly it spools up and gets there and finally there is the track

The dyno sheet for me allows me to see what combinations yield when comparing one build to another or headwork / cam combos.    

[Twolanerider]

The thing to remember about it all is that it's harmless.  It really means nothing.  It's just fun and something to chew on over beers in the garage or in places like this. 

Sure, a few will take it oh so seriously.  They'll try to sneak on unfair comparisons that are unfair to a degree more than friendly curb racing should expect.  But those are, more often than not, the guys whose engines really only run good at the curb anyway.  So, once again, big whoop .

[Twolanerider]

The dyno sheet for me allows me to see what combinations yield when comparing one build to another or headwork / cam combos.    

Exactly.  They are diagnostic.  But comparing machine to machine is a chimera.  Comparing operator to operator is even a question.  And don't even begin to count on execution methods.  Gears, tire pressures, etc etc etc.  It's all smoke and mirrors.  Diagnostic within a tuning session; absolutely.  Diagnostic for general trends of a combination that is working well; sure.  Really giving you something to compare against someone else on another day in another environment with another machine with another operator...  hehehehehe.  Not if you're honest anyway.

[Unbalanced]

Exactly.  They are diagnostic.  But comparing machine to machine is a chimera.  Comparing operator to operator is even a question.  And don't even begin to count on execution methods.  Gears, tire pressures, etc etc etc.  It's all smoke and mirrors.  Diagnostic within a tuning session; absolutely.  Diagnostic for general trends of a combination that is working well; sure.  Really giving you something to compare against someone else on another day in another environment with another machine with another operator...  hehehehehe.  Not if you're honest anyway.

My target for this build was 115/110, but really had no idea if the heads / flat top piston / yb13 cam would actually produce what I was after.   By removing the ramps on the HTCC's it allowed me to use the flat top 10.5 to 1 piston.   The porter didn't do anything else to these heads.   Thus far the bike runs smooth with the freedom cam and the bike blows away Rhino's ultra in side by side testing, so the mission was accomplished

[Unbalanced]

Well it does mean something!
To the individual that understands what the lines mean it's everything!

For example,
Take the dyno sheet below and note the following,

1)  Is it big #'s? NOPE!  (hello it's a stock 95")
2)  There is a name on it so in all probability it isn't one copied from another bike.
3)  There is a date on it.
4)  There is even a bike listed. (S/E Bagger)
5)  Now for the good stuff, it shows a hell of a dip in torque in a place where you need it most. So what does that mean? Good question! It's a stock bike with breather, pipe and tune. Why such a dip? Some dumba$$ put a competition baffle on a touring bike. Can you say no torque? And FYI, new baffle on the way and then back to the dyno.
6)  The lines cross at 5250 like they should. Why would anyone post a sheet where the lines didn't cross on this site is beyond me.
7)  When the new baffle is installed the PEAK H/P and Torque will come down, but bottom and midrange H/P and T will go up.

That Don is why these sheets mean what they mean to me. Bragging right's? Who is going to brag about 90 H/P and 100 ft lbs. of Torque. While others are bragging I'm going to be out riding my finely tuned low horsepower fun machine!

Hope you feel better!

 

Actually Chip to a man that knows how to read a dyno sheet the lines mean nothing the numbers are the numbers.   As Dennis pointed out some dyno's done even have forced scaling so what would you say to that guy?   If you doubt the numbers all you have to do is plug the numbers into the equation and you can verify if they are good or not.   As far as the dip goes that is important because it pointed you towards a problem    You are right a good tune and a smooth running machine is what it is all about.   A few people on this site have ridden my bikes and that is something I strive for with each build / combination is that the bikes run smooth and are fun to ride and of course the other reason is to make sure Ronnie gets spanked regularly hehe.

[pappy2]

Here is the final dyno from my recent build by John Sachs.  He put on Wild Things Heads, T46 g WT cam, 57 mm Throttle body and the Hi five A/C.  I had D&D fat cats and Mike Roland came down and gave a dyno workshop using my bike to demo the SERT.  I got a real education on the SERT and Mike convinced me that it really is the device of choice to tune these bikes.  Rides like a bandit now and lopes along at 80 at essentially no throttle so maybe I will get some milage out of it as well? 

[pappy2]

Forgot the cranking pressure was 175 indicating a relatively low compression build as I requested to avoid to much heat down here in the florida sunshine.  I really could not be happier with the project.  John Sachs did a great job cleaning up the heads and putting the build together using my original pistons.  Everyone have fun and ride safe.  JP