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Author Topic: Does he deserve to be our President?  (Read 11187 times)

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amigo Jorge

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Does he deserve to be our President?
« on: January 23, 2008, 10:15:13 AM »

I am not a person who like the politic and follow what happens in Washington but I just saw this article and even though I am not surprised for our President's bunch of lies I think in the parents and relatives of who lost their lives in Irak for this absurd war.

By DOUGLASS K. DANIEL, Associated Press Writer
Wed Jan 23, 6:43 AM ET

935 FALSE STATEMENT ON IRAK

WASHINGTON - A study by two nonprofit journalism organizations found that President Bush and top administration officials issued hundreds of false statements about the national security threat from Iraq in the two years following the 2001 terrorist attacks.

The study concluded that the statements "were part of an orchestrated campaign that effectively galvanized public opinion and, in the process, led the nation to war under decidedly false pretenses."

The study was posted Tuesday on the Web site of the Center for Public Integrity, which worked with the Fund for Independence in Journalism.

White House spokesman Scott Stanzel did not comment on the merits of the study Tuesday night but reiterated the administration's position that the world community viewed Iraq's leader, Saddam Hussein, as a threat.

"The actions taken in 2003 were based on the collective judgment of intelligence agencies around the world," Stanzel said.

The study counted 935 false statements in the two-year period. It found that in speeches, briefings, interviews and other venues, Bush and administration officials stated unequivocally on at least 532 occasions that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction or was trying to produce or obtain them or had links to al-Qaida or both.

"It is now beyond dispute that Iraq did not possess any weapons of mass destruction or have meaningful ties to al-Qaida," according to Charles Lewis and Mark Reading-Smith of the Fund for Independence in Journalism staff members, writing an overview of the study. "In short, the Bush administration led the nation to war on the basis of erroneous information that it methodically propagated and that culminated in military action against Iraq on March 19, 2003."

Named in the study along with Bush were top officials of the administration during the period studied: Vice President Dick Cheney, national security adviser Condoleezza Rice, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, Secretary of State Colin Powell, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz and White House press secretaries Ari Fleischer and Scott McClellan.

Bush led with 259 false statements, 231 about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and 28 about Iraq's links to al-Qaida, the study found. That was second only to Powell's 244 false statements about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and 10 about Iraq and al-Qaida.

The center said the study was based on a database created with public statements over the two years beginning on Sept. 11, 2001, and information from more than 25 government reports, books, articles, speeches and interviews.

"The cumulative effect of these false statements — amplified by thousands of news stories and broadcasts — was massive, with the media coverage creating an almost impenetrable din for several critical months in the run-up to war," the study concluded.

"Some journalists — indeed, even some entire news organizations — have since acknowledged that their coverage during those prewar months was far too deferential and uncritical. These mea culpas notwithstanding, much of the wall-to-wall media coverage provided additional, 'independent' validation of the Bush administration's false statements about Iraq," it said


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080123/ap_on_go_pr_wh/misinformation_study
« Last Edit: January 23, 2008, 10:16:53 AM by jegomez »
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Keats

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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2008, 10:46:10 AM »


I am not sure that this site is right for political arguments. There are plenty of sites/blogs available and the "hate Bush" rhetoric is old and tiring.
If under the guise of independant/unbiased opinion is the authority rule who decides what unbiased is?  Media Matters?  Move on?  Michael Moore?
CNN? MSNBC? fox?  how about Ann Coulter.

Just remeber how we got into Iraq, your elected representatives voted on this including Hillary and they now are running away from their own best decisions now it is election time. Do not let them distort history.    oh by the way Iraq is doing very well right now and where is the major media outlets now!

only bad news needs reporting?
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VAZHOG

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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2008, 12:38:35 PM »

I hate to confuse the issue with any facts, However in 1998 Your beloved Bill Clinton vetoed the energy bill that would have allowed drilling in An war Alaska, That pipe line would now have been completed and we would have no reason to protect our interest in the Mideast as we would be supplying our own oil produced on this side of the world!

NOT being able to Drill OFF shore (USA) or Burn COAL (which we have enough for a million years) in the USA or in Alaska we have been put in the postion we are in today--india and china are comming on line with auto's and oil burning power generators every day using the oil we continue to import.

If you think we don't have an interest in the mideast then you are not ridding anything or need any fuel to heat your house, What you are told you may think are lies but that is lame mistake for national security whatever it took to get into Iraq was just part of the cost of American lives that have been lost since 1979 to include the Cole, NYC, and countless service men and women who have given there LIFE in IRAQ and Afghanistan!

To leave Iraq Now or any time in the future would disgrace the Men and women that have given there live to keep the USA supplied with FUEL and to FREE Iraq and make a shared base of USA operations, just like we have in Germany, Japan, South Korea and around the world-- KILL them There or we will have to kill them here!!

I understand your need to stay on message about the President -- However Histroy will say that he was the right person at the right time in our live, much like Regan is being discussed today.


GOD BLESS AMERICA and GOD BLESS GW  :znothingfunny:
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2008, 01:07:44 PM »

Yea...let's dig up all the coal and burn it however the companies that buy it see fit; drill every possible oil field within our boundaries, regardless of impact on either human or other life species on the planet; then we can start working on getting all the shale oil out of the Rocky Mountains, until they are just nubs and look like the surface of the moon.  Those are the perfect solutions to our problems...they are so simple, why hasn't someone thought of them before?
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2008, 01:10:48 PM »

Jorge...

Not only is Bush and his "crew" liars, but Bush will go down in history as one of the worst presidents this country has ever had...the man is an absolute idiot.
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2008, 01:23:33 PM »

What is new?  Politicians are self serving crooks...If you cant or wont hold a job, go into politics.
One must admit for a draft dodging drug hazed alky, GW has done good for himself with Papas help of course.
That Texas Rangers stadium deal made him some big bucks but it is that kissing of the House of Saud Ass that put my skivvies in a wad.

J1AHO

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VAZHOG

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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2008, 01:39:26 PM »

Here's something else that all GW's Fault  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Drought Could Force Nuke-Plant Shutdowns
January 23, 2008 12:44 PM EST
LAKE NORMAN, N.C. - Nuclear reactors across the Southeast could be forced to throttle back or temporarily shut down later this year because drought is drying up the rivers and lakes that supply power plants with the awesome amounts of cooling water they need to operate.

http://my.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20080123/4796c9d0_3ca6_1552620080123139565434


Just trying to keep on message -- I would be gald to support a coal burning power plant on my 5 Ac lot show me  a link to sign up-- there are no snail darters or spotted owls or polar bears on my lot.  ;D

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miker

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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2008, 02:19:41 PM »

Here's something else that all GW's Fault  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Drought Could Force Nuke-Plant Shutdowns
January 23, 2008 12:44 PM EST
LAKE NORMAN, N.C. - Nuclear reactors across the Southeast could be forced to throttle back or temporarily shut down later this year because drought is drying up the rivers and lakes that supply power plants with the awesome amounts of cooling water they need to operate.

http://my.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20080123/4796c9d0_3ca6_1552620080123139565434

Just trying to keep on message -- I would be gald to support a coal burning power plant on my 5 Ac lot show me  a link to sign up-- there are no snail darters or spotted owls or polar bears on my lot.  ;D




 :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2008, 03:07:43 PM »

Not long after this thread posted the radio stations had picked up on it.

Surprised how much traction it is getting.  Not that it shouldn't.
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amigo Jorge

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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2008, 03:20:29 PM »

Jorge...

Not only is Bush and his "crew" liars, but Bush will go down in history as one of the worst presidents this country has ever had...the man is an absolute idiot.

 :2vrolijk_21:
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2008, 03:38:16 PM »

I'm kinda with Wayne here. With the technology today, there's no reason we shouldn't be going back to coal. Coal that's mined right here in America. There's no reason that the oil hasn't been tapped in Alaska either. And there's no reason to fight terrorism and include that in the guise of Middle East Energy interests. If we had no Middle East Energy interests, our policies there would look completely different than they do today. I'm all for wiping terrorism off the face of the earth. And doing that with a wrath that's never been seen before by mankind. But don't use energy as any part of the reason or the excuse. Especially when we have plenty of our own!!!

Hoist! 8)
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2008, 04:03:46 PM »

Monica Says:

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Talon

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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2008, 04:06:20 PM »

Bill in his early years!

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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2008, 04:06:56 PM »

Monica Says:



Great Picture, Thank You  :2vrolijk_21:
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Talon

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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2008, 04:11:34 PM »

I'm kinda with Wayne here. With the technology today, there's no reason we shouldn't be going back to coal. Coal that's mined right here in America. There's no reason that the oil hasn't been tapped in Alaska either. And there's no reason to fight terrorism and include that in the guise of Middle East Energy interests. If we had no Middle East Energy interests, our policies there would look completely different than they do today. I'm all for wiping terrorism off the face of the earth. And doing that with a wrath that's never been seen before by mankind. But don't use energy as any part of the reason or the excuse. Especially when we have plenty of our own!!!

Hoist! 8)

Are you sure this is Howie???? ;D

But I kinda agree! If it wasn't for oil companies and other big business owning our congress, we'd have alternate fuels, I'm not talking about corn! We'd also have cars that got twice the mileage they get now!
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2008, 04:14:13 PM »

Jorge...

Not only is Bush and his "crew" liars, but Bush will go down in history as one of the worst presidents this country has ever had...the man is an absolute idiot.
Terry,
Could be true, but he'll still be ranked higher than Jimmy Carter and Lyndon Johnson...(only use those two as they are in my lifetime).  All politicians are liars, it's a prerequisite for the job.  Doesn't matter what party you happen to populate.  We all fall prey to the finger pointing when something goes amiss.  Yet those same finger pointers were given the same information that the supposed "big liar" of the time were given.  They all got the same intelligence briefing...and that there my friends is where the problem lies.   We were sorely missing a very important part of intelligence gathering in Iraq.  It's called HUMINT, or human intelligence.  We didn't have any reliable human intelligence in Iraq to give us any indication of what was really going on in that country.  A lot of our decisions were based on what Saddam had done, i.e., used weapons of mass destruction (nerve gas) previously in his battles against the Kurds.  One would have to believe that he had weapons of mass detruction based on imperical data collected during the aftermath of that bloodbath.  So how do people say that he stated falsely that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction when there was proof positive that he not only had them, but used them?  Maybe he didn't have any more left and hadn't figured out how to make them yet, but we once again didn't have the current HUMINT to dispute that.  Both parties believed the "current intel of the time.  Both parties approved the war...so don't just blame Bush, blame the whole damned lot of them on Capital Hill.   JMHO.

:devil:
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2008, 04:16:37 PM »

I'm kinda with Wayne here. With the technology today, there's no reason we shouldn't be going back to coal. Coal that's mined right here in America. There's no reason that the oil hasn't been tapped in Alaska either. And there's no reason to fight terrorism and include that in the guise of Middle East Energy interests. If we had no Middle East Energy interests, our policies there would look completely different than they do today. I'm all for wiping terrorism off the face of the earth. And doing that with a wrath that's never been seen before by mankind. But don't use energy as any part of the reason or the excuse. Especially when we have plenty of our own!!!

Hoist! 8)

We do have and are using the technology currently, but there are too many tree huggers and welfare rights groups to enable the USA to stand alone and keep our Country running strong and not depending on foreign entanglements.
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amigo Jorge

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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2008, 04:19:28 PM »

I'm kinda with Wayne here. With the technology today, there's no reason we shouldn't be going back to coal. Coal that's mined right here in America. There's no reason that the oil hasn't been tapped in Alaska either. And there's no reason to fight terrorism and include that in the guise of Middle East Energy interests. If we had no Middle East Energy interests, our policies there would look completely different than they do today. I'm all for wiping terrorism off the face of the earth. And doing that with a wrath that's never been seen before by mankind. But don't use energy as any part of the reason or the excuse. Especially when we have plenty of our own!!!
Hoist! 8)

Agreed with you.....after several years of war and thousand of young lives the oil prices is higher than before  >:(
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2008, 04:30:25 PM »

Are you sure this is Howie???? ;D

But I kinda agree! If it wasn't for oil companies and other big business owning our congress, we'd have alternate fuels, I'm not talking about corn! We'd also have cars that got twice the mileage they get now!

You can have that now for anywhere from 50K to 80K per car should pay for itself in about 25 years of use. CONGRESS has been held captive by the environmentalist for the past 30 YRS that why you NOT had a refinery built, or a new power plant built in that 30 years, More Folks are using the oil that use to come here (USA) now we must compete with them and that and the futures market drives the price.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2008, 04:34:51 PM by VAZHOG »
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2008, 05:14:32 PM »

Are you sure this is Howie???? ;D

But I kinda agree! If it wasn't for oil companies and other big business owning our congress, we'd have alternate fuels, I'm not talking about corn! We'd also have cars that got twice the mileage they get now!

Interesting discussion here guys. And don't think I'm going soft on ya Talon. I still say we should be taking care of things much differently than we are over there. And you know my feelings on that already. Nothing's changed on that. Drop the "what will the world think of us" mentality, and TCOB! And an American Flag on every oil well there before there's a Chinese Flag on them, is imperative!

What I said earlier still holds also. We need to control "everything" we can to stay the strongest force on the earth! ;)

Hoist! 8)
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2008, 05:22:26 PM »

I'm kinda with Wayne here. With the technology today, there's no reason we shouldn't be going back to coal. Coal that's mined right here in America. There's no reason that the oil hasn't been tapped in Alaska either. And there's no reason to fight terrorism and include that in the guise of Middle East Energy interests. If we had no Middle East Energy interests, our policies there would look completely different than they do today. I'm all for wiping terrorism off the face of the earth. And doing that with a wrath that's never been seen before by mankind. But don't use energy as any part of the reason or the excuse. Especially when we have plenty of our own!!!

Hoist! 8)

Hoist,

I've driven through parts of Ky where the coal fields are. It's really pathetic and sad looking. They take acres and acres and although reclaimed, it's ruined for our lifetimes.

I have a better idea. We turn our trunks into generators powered by garbage. Garbage is one thing we've got plenty of. Open up our trunks, toss in the garbage, before it even gets to stinking...wa-la! Energy! We could even put automatic trash collectors so we'd clean up the interstates as we drive, and convert it into energy to power our cars! I get 120 miles per pound of garbage.
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2008, 05:25:19 PM »

Hoist,

I've driven through parts of Ky where the coal fields are. It's really pathetic and sad looking. They take acres and acres and although reclaimed, it's ruined for our lifetimes.

I have a better idea. We turn our trunks into generators powered by garbage. Garbage is one thing we've got plenty of. Open up our trunks, toss in the garbage, before it even gets to stinking...wa-la! Energy! We could even put automatic trash collectors so we'd clean up the interstates as we drive, and convert it into energy to power our cars! I get 120 miles per pound of garbage.

Interesting idea Ken! Where the hell do you country boys come up with that stuff from? ::) ;D

Actually, all the technologies exist for that to happen, as you're well aware of now! So why the hell not! ;)

Hoist! 8)
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2008, 05:30:04 PM »

Interesting idea Ken! Where the hell do you country boys come up with that stuff from? ::) ;D

Actually, all the technologies exist for that to happen, as you're well aware of now! So why the hell not! ;)

Hoist! 8)

A buddy of mine came up with it. At the time I thought he was nuts, and I asked him what he'd been smoking. But the more I think about it, I think it'll work.
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2008, 05:38:04 PM »

Hoist,

I've driven through parts of Ky where the coal fields are. It's really pathetic and sad looking. They take acres and acres and although reclaimed, it's ruined for our lifetimes.

I have a better idea. We turn our trunks into generators powered by garbage. Garbage is one thing we've got plenty of. Open up our trunks, toss in the garbage, before it even gets to stinking...wa-la! Energy! We could even put automatic trash collectors so we'd clean up the interstates as we drive, and convert it into energy to power our cars! I get 120 miles per pound of garbage.

Yes, and it's brought to by the YOU meaning that everyone here in the usa has been about I gotta get mine because I need to keep things going as they are so I can get mine then I will be gone and someone else will have to deal with it.  SO goes the world CHINA,INDIA are doing this now digging and damning the rivers for engery burning all they can get to be where we are now, because it's all about them, they donot care anymore than the people that have run the usa for the last 60 years how they get there because it's all about THEM. They will destroy the  way we live to get what we have just like the generations that have gone before us, Example SS don't fix it let's just get by then I'll be gone and the problem goes away. They all filled there gas tank and have driven off as I plan to do -nobody cares- about anything except YOU (not meaning you personal) I came into this world American and I will leave it the same way I came in using everything that the USA has to offer and DAMING the Rest just as everyone before me has done.

You may ask what about the Children? Who asked about you before you where born--- NO ONE!!!! It's just BS-- Get yours before it's gone  ;D

Grid the mountains NOW!! and let's go time is running out  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2008, 05:38:15 PM »

Hoist,

I've driven through parts of Ky where the coal fields are. It's really pathetic and sad looking. They take acres and acres and although reclaimed, it's ruined for our lifetimes.

I have a better idea. We turn our trunks into generators powered by garbage. Garbage is one thing we've got plenty of. Open up our trunks, toss in the garbage, before it even gets to stinking...wa-la! Energy! We could even put automatic trash collectors so we'd clean up the interstates as we drive, and convert it into energy to power our cars! I get 120 miles per pound of garbage.

I'll stay out of the political discussion - but take the time to look at this... www.globalresourcecorp.com/

Scott
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2008, 05:42:23 PM »

Wow Wayne, you OK there buddy? didn't mean to rile ya up.
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2008, 05:44:48 PM »

Wow Wayne, you OK there buddy? didn't mean to rile ya up.

I'm not Riled up-I don't have a chance to be home alone much!! :2vrolijk_21:

Maybe I need a bath to relax  ;D

That's still six months off.
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #27 on: January 23, 2008, 05:48:53 PM »

I'm not Riled up-I don't have a chance to be home alone much!! :2vrolijk_21:

Maybe I need a bath to relax  ;D

That's still six months off.

Smarta$$  ;D
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #28 on: January 23, 2008, 05:54:26 PM »

I'll stay out of the political discussion - but take the time to look at this... www.globalresourcecorp.com/

Scott

There was a special on one of the Discovery Channels on this, that Ken and I watched. The technology to convert garbage to fuel is there. The technology to use the fuel to create Hydrogen is there. The technology to use the Hydrogen in Fuel Cells is there. Basically, garbage in, converted to energy, and the byproduct is H2O! It's not inconceivable. Actually, they never looked at it as putting it all together in one package, like Ken said, by dumping the garbage into your trunk. That was my crazy hair-brained scheme! But I don't think it's that far of a reach! :o

Hoist! 8)
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2008, 06:03:38 PM »

You can have that now for anywhere from 50K to 80K per car should pay for itself in about 25 years of use. CONGRESS has been held captive by the environmentalist for the past 30 YRS that why you NOT had a refinery built, or a new power plant built in that 30 years, More Folks are using the oil that use to come here (USA) now we must compete with them and that and the futures market drives the price.

Surely you jest...

Were it not for the EPA, we'd all be killing each other right now for a drink of water.  Do you think for one millisecond that the corporations would have EVER cleaned up their dumping of toxins in our rivers, burying cancer causing chemicals so they could leach into the water table, or dumping chit into the air that was (still is) denuding our forests, killing our fish, etc,  on their own?  Go buy you some property on The Love Canal if you believe so strongly in how much corporate America cares about you.  Hell, strip mine the Shenandoah Mountains up to your back door...there might be two days worth of energy in them for us to use.

I don't even HAVE kids, but I hope there is something green for everybody else's to look at 100 years from now.  With some of the attitudes expressed here, there wouldn't be.  I hope I'm dead long before....
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2008, 06:05:49 PM »

Great Picture, Thank You  :2vrolijk_21:

You should thank Bill too.  :D :D :D :D
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2008, 06:06:42 PM »

There was a special on one of the Discovery Channels on this, that Ken and I watched. The technology to convert garbage to fuel is there. The technology to use the fuel to create Hydrogen is there. The technology to use the Hydrogen in Fuel Cells is there. Basically, garbage in, converted to energy, and the byproduct is H2O! It's not inconceivable. Actually, they never looked at it as putting it all together in one package, like Ken said, by dumping the garbage into your trunk. That was my crazy hair-brained scheme! But I don't think it's that far of a reach! :o

Hoist! 8)

If you can't put a meter on to make $$ then it's a pipe dream :)
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2008, 06:08:48 PM »

Surely you jest...

Were it not for the EPA, we'd all be killing each other right now for a drink of water.  Do you think for one millisecond that the corporations would have EVER cleaned up their dumping of toxins in our rivers, burying cancer causing chemicals so they could leach into the water table, or dumping chit into the air that was (still is) denuding our forests, killing our fish, etc,  on their own?  Go buy you some property on The Love Canal if you believe so strongly in how much corporate America cares about you.  Hell, strip mine the Shenandoah Mountains up to your back door...there might be two days worth of energy in them for us to use.

I don't even HAVE kids, but I hope there is something green for everybody else's to look at 100 years from now.  With some of the attitudes expressed here, there wouldn't be.  I hope I'm dead long before....

They did all that while passing the saving $$$$ on to you -- enjoy
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #33 on: January 23, 2008, 06:26:06 PM »

They did all that while passing the saving $$$$ on to you -- enjoy

I don't give a flyin' chit about the $$$...I'm thinking outside my self here.

The USA, being the most powerful, richest, etc country in the world, should be setting EXAMPLES through it's leadership at all levels, and POSITIVE EXAMPLES, not examples about how stupid some of our leaders (political and corporate) have been and continue to be.

All things are connected on this planet...life, politics, religion, economics.  I want a leader who understands something past the end of their friggin' noses, or pocketbooks.  Singular issue politicians are ignorant...you cannot do something in one place and not impact something somewhere else.  Whether we like it or not, agree on it or not...we are all connected on this blue ball, especially now.  If you don't believe me, just hide and watch what happens in our lifetime, or your children's.  I am optimistic that reasonable people in this country will prevail in decisions which will impact us for the next 200 + years...I would hope that others feel the same way.

Alternative energy sources MUST happen at some point...why not let it begin now?
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #34 on: January 23, 2008, 06:32:30 PM »

For those that have the belief that Bush is a liar and the war in Iraq all started with his administration you may be interested in reading this http://www.amazon.com/Inside-Danger-Zone-Military-1987-1988/dp/1591149703/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1201127869&sr=1-1 It is a historical background with plenty of footnotes to back it up.

We should of taken care of Iraq when they illegally fired upon the USS Stark and killed 37 American Sailors!!!!! By the way, we would have if the American electorate had the cojones.  :coolblue:

Boy we have short memories!!

Howie
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #35 on: January 23, 2008, 07:08:33 PM »

For those that have the belief that Bush is a liar and the war in Iraq all started with his administration you may be interested in reading this http://www.amazon.com/Inside-Danger-Zone-Military-1987-1988/dp/1591149703/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1201127869&sr=1-1 It is a historical background with plenty of footnotes to back it up.

We should of taken care of Iraq when they illegally fired upon the USS Stark and killed 37 American Sailors!!!!! By the way, we would have if the American electorate had the cojones.  :coolblue:

Boy we have short memories!!


Howie

And we should have done it with a vengeance never unleashed before. As we got more "politically correct", and substituted our vengeance with diplomacy, we started being perceived by these terrorists as being weak. We never taught them not to mistake kindness for weakness. Now they aren't in fear of our power, as everyone once was. They don't think we have the balls to piss off the rest of the world. It's time to show the world how strong we really are again. And I hope it's not too late for that!

Hoist! 8)
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #36 on: January 23, 2008, 09:39:28 PM »

And we should have done it with a vengeance never unleashed before. As we got more "politically correct", and substituted our vengeance with diplomacy, we started being perceived by these terrorists as being weak. We never taught them not to mistake kindness for weakness. Now they aren't in fear of our power, as everyone once was. They don't think we have the balls to piss off the rest of the world. It's time to show the world how strong we really are again. And I hope it's not too late for that!

Hoist! 8)


The original "news" piece on lies is another typical AP slam - but this time it can be turned around on them. Media has LESS credibility than politicians, and in this case, the media CONTINUES to lie. Have not read the study the article refers to, but the article doesn't state the facts - almost ALL politicians - both parties - supported Iraq invasion & said the SAME things.  Bush policy was Clinton's poicy re: Iraq.  Historical revisionistic crappola now rules the Dems.  Its so politicized now so when a news piece pops up that trashes one's political opponent, its pile on time.  Later, when the news is good for one's favorite pol, its gloat time.  Ridiculous.  Get a real kick out of the idea that President Bush is not a smart guy.  He is.  That is one of his better points & his political enemies will NEVER understand that.

As to renewable energy & other forms of political boondoggles - its a waste of time.  We need to drill, mine, & get what we can get & in the meantime some biz ypes will figure out the next generation.  using govt. resources for alternative energy creates ETHANOL - the biggest boondoggle of a generation in waste.

 :2vrolijk_21: Agreed on your comments re: war & our military abilities.  We used to kick ass,  It's time we did again.
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #37 on: January 23, 2008, 10:41:15 PM »

I firmly believe in our system and will fight efforts of liberals to undermine it weather it be in a form of socialist programs (entitlements) or redistribution of wealth.......I want Big government out of my life......always vote against tax increases........vote for term limits........vote for line item veto.....
get rid of estate taxes..........make government smaller

The more money government gets the more it wastes..........

we need a legit conservative movement.......balanced fiscal policy........no more pet projects.......If Calif does not want to allow
power generation in their state let them do without power and gas  let the state take control of their thermostats......but not me

let them build nuclear power plants and oil refineries   we need the power.........

the not in my backyard mentality has to stop or let them do without......

common sense must prevail........not special interests
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #38 on: January 23, 2008, 10:48:06 PM »

We should of taken care of Iraq when they illegally fired upon the USS Stark and killed 37 American Sailors!!!!! By the way, we would have if the American electorate had the cojones.  :coolblue:

Boy we have short memories!!

Howie

Bravo!!!  Well Said!
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #39 on: January 23, 2008, 11:07:59 PM »

I firmly believe in our system and will fight efforts of liberals to undermine it weather it be in a form of socialist programs (entitlements) or redistribution of wealth.......I want Big government out of my life......always vote against tax increases........vote for term limits........vote for line item veto.....
get rid of estate taxes..........make government smaller

The more money government gets the more it wastes..........

we need a legit conservative movement.......balanced fiscal policy........no more pet projects.......If Calif does not want to allow
power generation in their state let them do without power and gas  let the state take control of their thermostats......but not me

let them build nuclear power plants and oil refineries   we need the power.........

the not in my backyard mentality has to stop or let them do without......

common sense must prevail........not special interests

We need to get you into politics! ;)


Regarding drilling & refineries, I am really tired of all these politicians and special interest groups crying & whining anytime drilling for oil is mentioned in California & Florida.  You are right, they just don't want it in their backyard.  Now, it's alright to drill for oil and have refineries here in Oklahoma, but never where they live.  Well it hasn't hurt Oklahoma (in fact, we are kinda proud of the oil derricks and jack-pumps around our landscape).  And it hasn't had any noticeable effect on the wildlife.  I have seen deer with in site of jack-pumps casually grazing.
Until we elect leaders that have the common sense needed to realize that we need to utilize the natural resources available, our economy will continue to spiral downward due to unnecessarily high fuel cost. 
The problem is that a large percentage of voters continue to either vote uninformed or vote with their own selfish interest in mind.
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #40 on: January 24, 2008, 12:09:51 AM »

We need to get you into politics! ;)


Regarding drilling & refineries, I am really tired of all these politicians and special interest groups crying & whining anytime drilling for oil is mentioned in California & Florida.  You are right, they just don't want it in their backyard.  Now, it's alright to drill for oil and have refineries here in Oklahoma, but never where they live.  Well it hasn't hurt Oklahoma (in fact, we are kinda proud of the oil derricks and jack-pumps around our landscape).  And it hasn't had any noticeable effect on the wildlife.  I have seen deer with in site of jack-pumps casually grazing.
Until we elect leaders that have the common sense needed to realize that we need to utilize the natural resources available, our economy will continue to spiral downward due to unnecessarily high fuel cost. 
The problem is that a large percentage of voters continue to either vote uninformed or vote with their own selfish interest in mind.

With all due respect...in your first post, you mention conservative fiscal policy that balances the budget...I think Clinton was the first in may years that actually accomplished that goal, and left George M (for Moron...he got his degree from Harvard because his daddy contributed large sums of money to the institution...I work in a large Urban Univ. so know a little bit about the politics of such things) a surplus to squaller, which he wasted no time in doing with 600 dollar "rebates" to people who went out and blew the money.  Also, I don't know if it's "we don't want in our backyard" or if some people realize that enough is enough with regards to present or future damage to what is left.  You see deer grazing by the oil pumps because MAN has eliminated all their natural predators, not because they LIKE the oil pumps!!

I pose this question to all who propose "utilizing our natural resources to their fullest extent":  Where do you draw the line for present and future generations...when the whole f'ing country looks like Mars?
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #41 on: January 24, 2008, 05:49:03 AM »

I'm as conservative as they come but I think the future of energy comes from solar, wind, and water.  You make a reference to earth resembling Mars.  That pretty much happened in Pennsylvania in the beginning of the last century as entire counties were cleared for their wood  and the mountains leveled from the top down to get to their coal.  This leveling polluted the rivers with heavy metals that killed everything downstream.  Renewable energy that keeps us independent is the answer.  It's amazing to drive through the mountains of the Allegany National Forest and see all the flat top mountains and know there isn't a tree within sight that is over 100 years old.  We learn from our mistakes.

As for terrorists?  I'm of Roosevelt's BIG STICK mentality!
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #42 on: January 24, 2008, 06:56:08 AM »

With all due respect...in your first post, you mention conservative fiscal policy that balances the budget...I think Clinton was the first in may years that actually accomplished that goal, and left George M (for Moron...he got his degree from Harvard because his daddy contributed large sums of money to the institution...I work in a large Urban Univ. so know a little bit about the politics of such things) a surplus to squaller, which he wasted no time in doing with 600 dollar "rebates" to people who went out and blew the money.  Also, I don't know if it's "we don't want in our backyard" or if some people realize that enough is enough with regards to present or future damage to what is left.  You see deer grazing by the oil pumps because MAN has eliminated all their natural predators, not because they LIKE the oil pumps!!

I pose this question to all who propose "utilizing our natural resources to their fullest extent":  Where do you draw the line for present and future generations...when the whole f'ing country looks like Mars?

Since Mars has nowhere near the H2O content of Earth, the comparison is not possible, unless we export most of our water to Mars & nobody is seriously proposing that in DC - yet.  John Edwards would promise this if there was an angle in it to get elected, & then Hillary & Obama would promise to do it quicker.

When I read about the trade imbalance or hear some politician or media wonk lament about the terrible situation of American labor yadda yadda China, India yadda yadda & they IGNORE the HUGE energy imbalance - our dollars chasing energy from foreign sources - I do not take them seriously since they are just mouthing platitudes.  In other words, our monetary resources go to building indoor ski resorts & copious largesse in the Middle East instead of staying here at home, where our politicians can waste them almost that effectively, but not quite.

Proud to be born & raised in Texas - an energy state.  George W. Bush's political enemies early on failed to understand his intellect.  Through many years of observation, I have learned that is a reflection of their own abilities much more so than President Bush's.  :huepfenlol2:  In other words, underestimating one's political opponent in a key area leads to political defeat.  Democrats demonstrated that lack of intellect in spades in his wins as guv as well as his wins as prez & in that there is more than a certain satisfaction.  Now its sour grapes & the Dems do not have a lock on this election as they feel is their birthright instead of the vote totals, and there is frustration aplenty in that. 

Also, the fed budget was NEVER balanced since Social Security surpluses were utilized. national debt increased each year of Clinton's terms - never dropped. So called conservatives simply spend their money on different boondoggles than liberals.  Not sure there are any conservatives in DC - I've never been one but thought I had seen a few once upon a time but they were not exactly conservative (1980's).  Other than that, we agree.   :huepfenlol2: ;D :huepfenlol2:
« Last Edit: January 24, 2008, 06:58:12 AM by iski »
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #43 on: January 24, 2008, 08:32:32 AM »

There was a special on one of the Discovery Channels on this, that Ken and I watched. The technology to convert garbage to fuel is there. The technology to use the fuel to create Hydrogen is there. The technology to use the Hydrogen in Fuel Cells is there. Basically, garbage in, converted to energy, and the byproduct is H2O! It's not inconceivable. Actually, they never looked at it as putting it all together in one package, like Ken said, by dumping the garbage into your trunk. That was my crazy hair-brained scheme! But I don't think it's that far of a reach! :o

Hoist! 8)

Howie,

  I have been to this company.  I have watched them take any number of "waste" materials and convert it into hydrocarbons - shredded tires, automotive fluff (the non metallic residue from ground up cars), sludge from the bottom of the Delaware River, ground plastics, all types of landfill materials.  They place the material in a vacuum microwave reactor and hit it with very high frequency microwaves.  The microwaves separate the hydrocarbons in the form of natural gas, methane, and various types of oils.  Once treated, the remaining non hydrocarbon material has been reduced to about one fifth the orginal quantity.  What remains is basically carbon - mostly in the form of carbon black (also recyclable).  There is virtually no land fill residue remaining - and the resulting hydrocarbons are in various forms of usable energy.  It is one of those things you have to see to believe...  It will be interesting to watch the technology grow to a commercially viable product.

Scott
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #44 on: January 24, 2008, 08:41:20 AM »

Howie,

  I have been to this company.  I have watched them take any number of "waste" materials and convert it into hydrocarbons - shredded tires, automotive fluff (the non metallic residue from ground up cars), sludge from the bottom of the Delaware River, ground plastics, all types of landfill materials.  They place the material in a vacuum microwave reactor and hit it with very high frequency microwaves.  The microwaves separate the hydrocarbons in the form of natural gas, methane, and various types of oils.  Once treated, the remaining non hydrocarbon material has been reduced to about one fifth the orginal quantity.  What remains is basically carbon - mostly in the form of carbon black (also recyclable).  There is virtually no land fill residue remaining - and the resulting hydrocarbons are in various forms of usable energy.  It is one of those things you have to see to believe...  It will be interesting to watch the technology grow to a commercially viable product.

Scott

Yeap, and that's the first part of the renewable energy vehicle I visualized! :o

Have that conversion system made so it fits in a trunk of a car. Use that fuel to create Hydrogen right there in the vehicle. Use that Hydrogen in a Fuel Cell to power the electric vehicle, and your byproduct from the Fuel Cell is H2O. And then reuse the solid carbon waste too. What could be a more efficient form of renewable energy. And we eliminate most waste that's now piling up in landfills and getting dumped in the oceans! NYC would be so clean, you'd never even recognize it! ;D

Hoist! 8)
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #45 on: January 24, 2008, 09:08:57 AM »

I'm as conservative as they come but I think the future of energy comes from solar, wind, and water.  You make a reference to earth resembling Mars.  That pretty much happened in Pennsylvania in the beginning of the last century as entire counties were cleared for their wood  and the mountains leveled from the top down to get to their coal.  This leveling polluted the rivers with heavy metals that killed everything downstream.  Renewable energy that keeps us independent is the answer.  It's amazing to drive through the mountains of the Allegany National Forest and see all the flat top mountains and know there isn't a tree within sight that is over 100 years old.  We learn from our mistakes.

As for terrorists?  I'm of Roosevelt's BIG STICK mentality!

I'm with you, I buy blocks of wind energy from a wind farm, they add these blocks to the grid that offset the energy I use, it cost me about $15 a month more. You can say what you want about global warming, but using up natural resources, pumping millions of tons of pollutants into the air and water can't be good!! :nixweiss:
As for political Presidential stuff, the economy was on the decline in the last year of Clintons Presidency, you can pull it on and several sites and see actual numbers from those years, and with 911, things other related things that Clinton didn't have to deal with, I don't think you can compare the two. I wish there was a candidate out there that was for the people they are suppose to reperesent. Everyone of the candidates has an army of people telling them what they need to say to what people and to what race, or religious groups, how to attack their opponents. Their in you state, telling you what they think you want to here and why the other guy is so bad, then they get elected and you hear about government waste, political corruption, drug companies getting what they want and making billions of dollars at our expense, because our Representatives sold out to them and are now working as lobbyist for the companies!!! It would be nice to see Americans take some of the hostility they are showing towards eachother and direct it at the crooks we put in office from both parties.
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #46 on: January 24, 2008, 09:41:35 AM »

Staying on message maybe This is whom you are looking for to save your air, As far as dumping more pollutants Every June we release more people on the roads (Graduation) more Cars add the growth of india and china and all the new millions of NEW first time car owners in the third world and there you have it we are are left with burning candles to save the air we breath that is shared by everyone else, STOKE UP THE POWER PLANTS.

Who is Barack Obama?

Very interesting and something that should be considered in your
choice.


If you do not ever forward anything else, please forward this to all
your contacts...this is very scarey to think of what lies ahead of us
here in our own United States...better heed this and pray about it and share it.

We checked this out on 'snopes.com'. It is factual. Check for yourself.

Who is Barack Obama?

Probable U. S. presidential candidate, Barack Hussein Obama was born
in Honolulu, Hawaii, to Barack Hussein Obama, Sr., a black MUSLIM
from Nyangoma-Kogel, Kenya and Ann Dunham, a white ATHIEST from
Wichita, Kansas.
Obama's parents met at the University of Hawaii. When Obama was two
years old, his parents divorced. His father returned to Kenya. His
mother then married Lolo Soetoro, a RADICAL Muslim from Indonesia.?
When Obama was 6 years old, the family relocate to Indonesia. Obama
att ended a MUSLIM school in Jakarta. He also spent two years in a
Catholic school.

Obama takes great care to conceal the fact that he is a Muslim. He is
quick to point out that, 'He was once a Muslim, but that he also
attended Catholic school.'

Obama's political handlers are attempting to make it appear that he is not a radical.
Obama's introduction to Islam came via his father, and that this
influence was temporary at best. In reality, the senior Obama returned
to Kenya soon after the divorce, and never again had any direct
influence over his son's education.

Lolo Soetoro, the second husband of Obama's mother, Ann Dunham,
introduced his stepson to Islam. Obama was enrolled in a Wahabi school
in Jakarta.

Wahabism is the RADICAL teaching that is followed by the Muslim
terrorists who are now waging Jihad against the western world. Since
it is politically expedient to be a CHRISTIAN when seeking major
public office in the United States, Barack Hussein Obama has joined
the United Church of Christ in an attempt to downplay his Muslim
background. ALSO, keep in mind that when he was sworn into office he
DID NOT use the Holy Bible, but instead the Koran.

Barack Hussein Obama will NOT recite the Pledge of Allegience nor
will he show any reverence for our flag. While others place their hands
over their hearts, Obama turns his back to the flag and slouches.
Let us all remain alert concerning Obama's expected presidential
candidacy.

The Muslims have said they plan on destroying the US from the inside
out, what better way to start than at the highest level - through the
President of the United States, one of their own!!!!

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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #47 on: January 24, 2008, 10:47:27 AM »

With all due respect...in your first post, you mention conservative fiscal policy that balances the budget...I think Clinton was the first in may years that actually accomplished that goal, and left George M (for Moron...he got his degree from Harvard because his daddy contributed large sums of money to the institution...I work in a large Urban Univ. so know a little bit about the politics of such things) a surplus to squaller, which he wasted no time in doing with 600 dollar "rebates" to people who went out and blew the money.  Also, I don't know if it's "we don't want in our backyard" or if some people realize that enough is enough with regards to present or future damage to what is left.  You see deer grazing by the oil pumps because MAN has eliminated all their natural predators, not because they LIKE the oil pumps!!

I pose this question to all who propose "utilizing our natural resources to their fullest extent":  Where do you draw the line for present and future generations...when the whole f'ing country looks like Mars?

GW is not a fiscal conservative but do not imply that Clinton was......

but this hate Bush rhetoric you have is now more explaaned through the fact

the you work for a large Urban University the "motherland and Birth place" of all liberalism

of course you think us mere idiots that get a 600.00 rebate (of Taxes we already paid) is wasted because I am

stupid and unable to spend it wisely. (wisely is determined by your standards) and by the way the surplus you call it

is and was my money......it is everyones money not the Government.

All liberals think the government knows what is best for us morons out there.....other wise us gun toting NRA card

carrying idiots will surely shoot ourselves.

How better to define it than to call the president a moron himself, do you really think you can get that far in politics

and be a moron also? (obviously you think so)

Let me save the time and I will post the Liberal Rant!
Bush lied Kids Died
go to War for Oil
He stole the election (both)
the reason he got there was his Daddy
He really did not serve in the military and even then he went awol
Haliburton
Oil,  Oil, Oil, then more Oil
Haliburton
Bible toting idiot
can't spell FBI
Blew up twin trade towers
especially building 9
Katrina,   Katrina, katrina

did I get it all?
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #48 on: January 24, 2008, 10:52:37 AM »

 :vrolijk_11: :vrolijk_11: :vrolijk_11: :vrolijk_11: :vrolijk_11: :vrolijk_11:
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #49 on: January 24, 2008, 11:07:45 AM »

Howie,

  I have been to this company.  I have watched them take any number of "waste" materials and convert it into hydrocarbons - shredded tires, automotive fluff (the non metallic residue from ground up cars), sludge from the bottom of the Delaware River, ground plastics, all types of landfill materials.  They place the material in a vacuum microwave reactor and hit it with very high frequency microwaves.  The microwaves separate the hydrocarbons in the form of natural gas, methane, and various types of oils.  Once treated, the remaining non hydrocarbon material has been reduced to about one fifth the orginal quantity.  What remains is basically carbon - mostly in the form of carbon black (also recyclable).  There is virtually no land fill residue remaining - and the resulting hydrocarbons are in various forms of usable energy.  It is one of those things you have to see to believe...  It will be interesting to watch the technology grow to a commercially viable product.

Scott


How many kw's of energy was required by the vacuum microwave reactor to produce how many kw's of energy in the form of H?  It does not a have to be in kw's, it could be joules or what have you but the efficiency in conversion always has a loss, always.   

1 therm of dino will typically yield only .4 therm in electrical output due to loss in conversion from chemical energy(oil) converted to themal energy(boiler) conveted to mechanical energy(steam turbine) conveted to electrical energy(generator).  Small increases in this heat rate help but it is the 1st law of thermodynamics, no free lunch.

What makes dinofuel so great is its ability to be transported and stockpiled easily.  Canada is full of it! and oil too!

It has been a hurdle in the business for some time.   If I could only .......

Miker   

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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #50 on: January 24, 2008, 11:19:36 AM »

Staying on message maybe This is whom you are looking for to save your air, As far as dumping more pollutants Every June we release more people on the roads (Graduation) more Cars add the growth of india and china and all the new millions of NEW first time car owners in the third world and there you have it we are are left with burning candles to save the air we breath that is shared by everyone else, STOKE UP THE POWER PLANTS.

Who is Barack Obama?

Very interesting and something that should be considered in your
choice.


If you do not ever forward anything else, please forward this to all
your contacts...this is very scarey to think of what lies ahead of us
here in our own United States...better heed this and pray about it and share it.

We checked this out on 'snopes.com'. It is factual. Check for yourself.

Who is Barack Obama?

Wayne....I think if you actually Snope that yourself, instead of believing an e-mail someone sent you, that you will find the entire message is nothing but a giant lie, and has been proven to be so not only by Snopes, but other sources as well.  Whether you support the man or not, bringing these kind of lies into the picture of him is just wrong, no matter how you look at it.

As for India and China...yes, there will be millions of additional vehicles on the road as a result of them gaining the ability to reach one of their goals in life....car ownership.

What the US can do, and should do, is provide leadership to the rest of the world in all things...that puts pressure on other countries to make better policy.

As for George W being "smart"...I have never questioned his ability in the political arena.  That does not necessarily equate to the intelligence needed to understand Global politics, nor the interconnectivity of nearly every single thing that most have sited here as issues they care about.  His ignorant stand on stem cell research is one shining example of his lack of understanding, or perhaps shows that he just doesn't give a chit about the overwhelming good that will certainly come out of it.  Almost everyone here knows someone with MS...there is GREAT promise that stem cell research can provide some answers to that devastating disease, and many others.  I work in a medical research environment, so I'm not talking out of my butthole here...

Climate change is happening in front of everyone's eyes...the evidence that human beings are making a huge contribution to that event is absolutely overwhelming.  Cetainly, there are "for hire" scientists who will say otherwise, but please remember that a few scientists, hired by the Tobacco industry, also said nicotine is not addictive.  Anyone who has tried to stop smoking can tell you otherwise.  The preponderance of scientific evidence shows, with no if's, and's, or but's, that our current lifestyle will likely result in catastrophic change, even as soon as 50 years from now, and certainly within the next 200 years...there is evidence that some events happen much more quickly than was once believed.  Global warming is actually a misnomer, and a term that really should not be used any longer...Climate Change is a more accurate description of the results of human activity on the planet.  The US has the ability to develop ways to stop or slow this down.  The upcoming elections are, in my opinion, one of the most important in our history, for a number of reasons.  A person with a Global perspective is critical.  Isolationism, "taking over" chit, and trying to "bully" our way around is no longer an option...the repurcussions are too potentially devastating in both the short and long term.  Plus, we simply cannot afford it.

We are involved in a war that in my opinion should never have happened.  I TOTALLY support our men and women who have served in that struggle, and continue to do so.  My reality of that situation is that it is a no win situation...please....I am not saying that some good things have not happened there, and some of the people are better off.  The country, as a whole, is NOT in better shape as a result of our efforts.   I do not think the people are capable of governing themselves in any way close to what we would consider a democracy.  Just not going to happen.  We are throwing money down a hole, and losing young men and women in the process.  It is a brown Vietnam, and everyone knows how that one ended.  I also supported those who fought there, though I was dead set against the war itself.

Our energy needs are not sustainable with fossil fuels without causing irreparable damage to not only the landscape, but the environment and other life forms as well.  Period.  Alternative, sustainable methodology to meet our needs, while reducing our impact, must be developed, and quickly.  We have the ability, just not the sense of urgency...yet.  It is coming.
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #51 on: January 24, 2008, 11:25:15 AM »

GW is not a fiscal conservative but do not imply that Clinton was......

but this hate Bush rhetoric you have is now more explaaned through the fact

the you work for a large Urban University the "motherland and Birth place" of all liberalism

of course you think us mere idiots that get a 600.00 rebate (of Taxes we already paid) is wasted because I am

stupid and unable to spend it wisely. (wisely is determined by your standards) and by the way the surplus you call it

is and was my money......it is everyones money not the Government.

All liberals think the government knows what is best for us morons out there.....other wise us gun toting NRA card

carrying idiots will surely shoot ourselves.

How better to define it than to call the president a moron himself, do you really think you can get that far in politics

and be a moron also? (obviously you think so)

Let me save the time and I will post the Liberal Rant!
Bush lied Kids Died
go to War for Oil
He stole the election (both)
the reason he got there was his Daddy
He really did not serve in the military and even then he went awol
Haliburton
Oil,  Oil, Oil, then more Oil
Haliburton
Bible toting idiot
can't spell FBI
Blew up twin trade towers
especially building 9
Katrina,   Katrina, katrina

did I get it all?

Please do not put words in my mouth...

Birmingham, Alabama is for damn sure not Berkely, California, so you know not of what you speak.  I will also not engage in a personalized pissing contest with you, so game is over for me....
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I had the right to remain silent, just not the ability...

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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #52 on: January 24, 2008, 11:30:17 AM »


How many kw's of energy was required by the vacuum microwave reactor to produce how many kw's of energy in the form of H?  It does not a have to be in kw's, it could be joules or what have you but the efficiency in conversion always has a loss, always.   

1 therm of dino will typically yield only .4 therm in electrical output due to loss in conversion from chemical energy(oil) converted to themal energy(boiler) conveted to mechanical energy(steam turbine) conveted to electrical energy(generator).  Small increases in this heat rate help but it is the 1st law of thermodynamics, no free lunch.

What makes dinofuel so great is its ability to be transported and stockpiled easily.  Canada is full of it! and oil too!

It has been a hurdle in the business for some time.   If I could only .......

Miker   



Solar powered vacuum microwave reactors in the trunks of your cars! Solar panels on the roof, sensitive enough to generate power with infra-red sensitivity! Convert the garbage to fuel with em! Easy chit man! Did it a few years ago but got bored with it. ::) I'd rather pay 4 bucks a gal.! ::) ;D ;)

Hoist! 8)
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #53 on: January 24, 2008, 11:37:36 AM »

The argument about stem cell research is very simple and a little dishonest to blame GW and his policy.

Stem cell research is not restricted to any limited lines
it is not ilegal to do to stem cell research on any lines, there are no restrictions on the research
stem cells have not lived up to the expectations of delivering breakthroughs.

The bottom line was GW would not use FEDERAL Money to support research outside of the original lines
that were set aside for this research.

There are people who believe their federal dollars should not be used for War and those who believe it should not be used for destroying human embryos.

Stop taking federal money and you can do all of the research you want, and if it is all that promising getting
private dollars to fund this would be easy, keyword is promising, much easier to throw federal dollars down the
research toilet than private dollars who wants results.

Federal research dollars are the "low Hanging fruit" and you do not have to even produce anything for the money.
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #54 on: January 24, 2008, 11:45:37 AM »

The argument about stem cell research is very simple and a little dishonest to blame GW and his policy.

Stem cell research is not restricted to any limited lines
it is not ilegal to do to stem cell research on any lines, there are no restrictions on the research
stem cells have not lived up to the expectations of delivering breakthroughs.

The bottom line was GW would not use FEDERAL Money to support research outside of the original lines
that were set aside for this research.

There are people who believe their federal dollars should not be used for War and those who believe it should not be used for destroying human embryos.

Stop taking federal money and you can do all of the research you want, and if it is all that promising getting
private dollars to fund this would be easy, keyword is promising, much easier to throw federal dollars down the
research toilet than private dollars who wants results.

Federal research dollars are the "low Hanging fruit" and you do not have to even produce anything for the money.

That's right...shouldn't blame GW for that one...

Federal dollars for research is indeed a boondoggle...NASA was a useless endevour, as is most other medical related research.  Federal dollars for basic science is indeed a waste of money, and private dollars should be spent by large companies so they can get the results THEY want, for the causes THEY pick and choose, based on THEIR ecomonic needs.  To hell with the public good...
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Sometimes it takes a whole tankful of fuel before you can think straight.
I had the right to remain silent, just not the ability...

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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #55 on: January 24, 2008, 11:57:28 AM »

I wish it would warm up "outside" so we could all go riding.
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #56 on: January 24, 2008, 12:02:10 PM »

I thought SO  ;D
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #57 on: January 24, 2008, 12:21:15 PM »

That's right...shouldn't blame GW for that one...

Federal dollars for research is indeed a boondoggle...NASA was a useless endevour, as is most other medical related research.  Federal dollars for basic science is indeed a waste of money, and private dollars should be spent by large companies so they can get the results THEY want, for the causes THEY pick and choose, based on THEIR ecomonic needs.  To hell with the public good...

I get the sarcasm, and did not want to make it personal and I am sorry for that.....

this is why I like riding so much, it is an escape from reality

and I do not care if the guy riding next to me is a flaming

liberal/facist/NeoCon/socialist or whatever....when I ride, I do not Care
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #58 on: January 24, 2008, 12:26:33 PM »

I get the sarcasm, and did not want to make it personal and I am sorry for that.....

this is why I like riding so much, it is an escape from reality

and I do not care if the guy riding next to me is a flaming

liberal/facist/NeoCon/socialist or whatever....when I ride, I do not Care

Ding, ding, ding!!! We have a winner!!! :2vrolijk_21:

"I just wanna be free to ride my machine.....!"





And stay free to do it!!! ;)

Hoist! 8)
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #59 on: January 24, 2008, 12:40:49 PM »

Funny how people forget this stuff!!! I could go on, but here just some of Clintons fine achievements!

http://www.law.berkeley.edu/faculty/yooj/courses/forrel/reserve/Penn%20LR%202.html

            Aside from getting himself impeached but not removed, President William J. Clinton’s most noteworthy impact on the Constitution has been in the area of war powers.  When it comes to using the American military, no president in recent times has had a quicker trigger finger.  In March, 1999, for example, President Clinton ordered 31,000 American servicemen and women to engage in air operations against Serbia, the largest and most powerful province of the former Yugoslavia, to prevent the “ethnic cleansing” of Albanians living in Kosovo.  As part of an operation sponsored by the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), 7,000 American ground troops then entered Kosovo on June 10, 1999, after NATO bombing had forced Serbia to withdraw its forces.  It is unclear how long American troops will remain, as NATO’s goals include not just ending war but building a new nation in Kosovo.

 

While broader in scale and destructiveness, President Clinton’s Kosovo operation followed a pattern set by similar military interventions over the last eight years.  Since December 1995, some 20,000 American troops have implemented a U.N.-brokered peace plan in Bosnia, another former province of the former Yugoslavia.  American war planes continue to enforce a no-fly zone in Iraq, and on occasion American cruise missiles and bombs have attacked Iraqi military assets.  In the summer of 1998, President Clinton again used cruise missiles, this time to hit suspected terrorist targets in Sudan and Afghanistan.  In 1994, President Clinton sent 16,000 American troops to Haiti, under the auspices of the U.N., to oversee its transition to democratic government.  In 1993, President Clinton expanded the goals of the 28,000 American troops in Somalia, originally deployed by President Bush for humanitarian reasons, but then withdrew them after the deaths of soldiers in combat.  On President Clinton’s watch, American troops also have participated in U.N. peacekeeping missions in dangerous places such as Macedonia and Rwanda.

 

In none of these cases did the Clinton administration seek congressional authorization for its decisions to use force abroad.  In fact, the President has justified his military interventions more often on the need to uphold our obligations to the United Nations or NATO, than upon congressional approval.  Although on several occasions Congress refused to authorize the use of force, President Clinton argued that he had the sole constitutional power as Commander-in-Chief to send American servicemen and women into harm’s way.  While he often signaled that he would welcome congressional support, he also made clear that he would implement his military plans without it.  President Clinton further refused to acknowledge that the War Powers Resolution bound his discretion to act.  Arguably, the Clinton administration’s use of the military in several long-term interventions has rendered the War Powers Resolution a dead letter.



Clinton Technology Transfer to China

http://www.fas.org/news/china/1998/booklet.htm



1998 Clinton Bombs Iraq

Politicians link Clinton's timing to impeachment scandal
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/meast/9812/16/iraq.strike.07/index.html



http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/09/clinton_i_wasnt_soft_on_bin_la.html

As usual, Clinton figures that the rest of us are too stupid or lazy to look it up for ourselves. And having read the complete report when it came out more than two years ago, I think it is an inescapable fact that a vacillating, equivocating administration had more than one opportunity to take out terrorist mastermind Bin Laden, but blew it.

A good place to look is the report's "Chapter 4: Responses to Al Qaeda's initial assaults," Section 4.5, "Searching for Fresh Options." There you have details of how Bin Laden was ready to be plucked, but someone in the administration either ignored or nixed it. Or put it on an endless "you-decide, not-me" merry-go-round.

For example, the report said the CIA was receiving "reliable" reports that Bin Laden would be in the Sheikh Ali hunting camp in the Afghan desert south of Kandahar until at least midmorning of Feb. 11, 1999. The military was targeting him for a hit with cruise missiles, and only needed a green light. Yet, no missiles were launched, to the disappointment of field agents and the CIA's "Bin Laden" unit. By Feb. 12, Bin Laden had moved on, and the golden opportunity passed.

Still, the CIA hoped that Bin Laden would return to the popular camp, but Richard Clarke, the nation's counterterrorism chief, may have blown it by calling the United Arab Emirate to express his concern about the their officials associating with Bin Laden at the hunting camp. Being no fools, the terrorists within a week had "hurriedly dismantled" and deserted the camp, the report said.

In May, 1999, the report said, the administration may have missed the best and last opportunity to hit Bin Laden with cruise missiles as he was moving in and around Kandahar. "It was a fat pitch, a home run," a senior military official told the commission, confident of the intelligence and the possibility of minimal "collateral damage." The report picks up the story:

"He expected the missiles to fly. When the decision came back that they should stand down, not shoot, the officer said, 'We all just slumped.' He told [the commission] he knew of no one at the Pentagon or the CIA who thought it was a bad game. Bin Laden 'should have been a dead man' that night, he said."
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VAZHOG

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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #60 on: January 24, 2008, 12:52:37 PM »

Funny how people forget this stuff!!! I could go on, but here just some of Clintons fine achievements!

http://www.law.berkeley.edu/faculty/yooj/courses/forrel/reserve/Penn%20LR%202.html

            Aside from getting himself impeached but not removed, President William J. Clinton’s most noteworthy impact on the Constitution has been in the area of war powers.  When it comes to using the American military, no president in recent times has had a quicker trigger finger.  In March, 1999, for example, President Clinton ordered 31,000 American servicemen and women to engage in air operations against Serbia, the largest and most powerful province of the former Yugoslavia, to prevent the “ethnic cleansing” of Albanians living in Kosovo.  As part of an operation sponsored by the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), 7,000 American ground troops then entered Kosovo on June 10, 1999, after NATO bombing had forced Serbia to withdraw its forces.  It is unclear how long American troops will remain, as NATO’s goals include not just ending war but building a new nation in Kosovo.

 

While broader in scale and destructiveness, President Clinton’s Kosovo operation followed a pattern set by similar military interventions over the last eight years.  Since December 1995, some 20,000 American troops have implemented a U.N.-brokered peace plan in Bosnia, another former province of the former Yugoslavia.  American war planes continue to enforce a no-fly zone in Iraq, and on occasion American cruise missiles and bombs have attacked Iraqi military assets.  In the summer of 1998, President Clinton again used cruise missiles, this time to hit suspected terrorist targets in Sudan and Afghanistan.  In 1994, President Clinton sent 16,000 American troops to Haiti, under the auspices of the U.N., to oversee its transition to democratic government.  In 1993, President Clinton expanded the goals of the 28,000 American troops in Somalia, originally deployed by President Bush for humanitarian reasons, but then withdrew them after the deaths of soldiers in combat.  On President Clinton’s watch, American troops also have participated in U.N. peacekeeping missions in dangerous places such as Macedonia and Rwanda.

 

In none of these cases did the Clinton administration seek congressional authorization for its decisions to use force abroad.  In fact, the President has justified his military interventions more often on the need to uphold our obligations to the United Nations or NATO, than upon congressional approval.  Although on several occasions Congress refused to authorize the use of force, President Clinton argued that he had the sole constitutional power as Commander-in-Chief to send American servicemen and women into harm’s way.  While he often signaled that he would welcome congressional support, he also made clear that he would implement his military plans without it.  President Clinton further refused to acknowledge that the War Powers Resolution bound his discretion to act.  Arguably, the Clinton administration’s use of the military in several long-term interventions has rendered the War Powers Resolution a dead letter.



Clinton Technology Transfer to China

http://www.fas.org/news/china/1998/booklet.htm



1998 Clinton Bombs Iraq

Politicians link Clinton's timing to impeachment scandal
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/meast/9812/16/iraq.strike.07/index.html



http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/09/clinton_i_wasnt_soft_on_bin_la.html

As usual, Clinton figures that the rest of us are too stupid or lazy to look it up for ourselves. And having read the complete report when it came out more than two years ago, I think it is an inescapable fact that a vacillating, equivocating administration had more than one opportunity to take out terrorist mastermind Bin Laden, but blew it.

A good place to look is the report's "Chapter 4: Responses to Al Qaeda's initial assaults," Section 4.5, "Searching for Fresh Options." There you have details of how Bin Laden was ready to be plucked, but someone in the administration either ignored or nixed it. Or put it on an endless "you-decide, not-me" merry-go-round.

For example, the report said the CIA was receiving "reliable" reports that Bin Laden would be in the Sheikh Ali hunting camp in the Afghan desert south of Kandahar until at least midmorning of Feb. 11, 1999. The military was targeting him for a hit with cruise missiles, and only needed a green light. Yet, no missiles were launched, to the disappointment of field agents and the CIA's "Bin Laden" unit. By Feb. 12, Bin Laden had moved on, and the golden opportunity passed.

Still, the CIA hoped that Bin Laden would return to the popular camp, but Richard Clarke, the nation's counterterrorism chief, may have blown it by calling the United Arab Emirate to express his concern about the their officials associating with Bin Laden at the hunting camp. Being no fools, the terrorists within a week had "hurriedly dismantled" and deserted the camp, the report said.

In May, 1999, the report said, the administration may have missed the best and last opportunity to hit Bin Laden with cruise missiles as he was moving in and around Kandahar. "It was a fat pitch, a home run," a senior military official told the commission, confident of the intelligence and the possibility of minimal "collateral damage." The report picks up the story:

"He expected the missiles to fly. When the decision came back that they should stand down, not shoot, the officer said, 'We all just slumped.' He told [the commission] he knew of no one at the Pentagon or the CIA who thought it was a bad game. Bin Laden 'should have been a dead man' that night, he said."

And to Think Many in AMerica, Still Want him (HER) Back in Charge  Ahh-- longing for the good old daze  ;D NOT
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sadunbar

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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #61 on: January 24, 2008, 12:53:15 PM »


How many kw's of energy was required by the vacuum microwave reactor to produce how many kw's of energy in the form of H?  It does not a have to be in kw's, it could be joules or what have you but the efficiency in conversion always has a loss, always.   

1 therm of dino will typically yield only .4 therm in electrical output due to loss in conversion from chemical energy(oil) converted to themal energy(boiler) conveted to mechanical energy(steam turbine) conveted to electrical energy(generator).  Small increases in this heat rate help but it is the 1st law of thermodynamics, no free lunch.

What makes dinofuel so great is its ability to be transported and stockpiled easily.  Canada is full of it! and oil too!

It has been a hurdle in the business for some time.   If I could only .......

Miker   



Miker,

The short answer (to respect confidentiality agreements) is the energy consumed by the process is a fraction of the energy produced by the process...  a fraction...  The process has been proven in laboratory settings and in prototype production models.  

Scott

(still staying out of the political discussion, but it sure is fun to watch you guys debate!!)   ::)
« Last Edit: January 24, 2008, 01:23:36 PM by sadunbar »
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #62 on: January 24, 2008, 12:57:42 PM »

Cool......maybe the dark hand will allow it to come to fruition.   :)

Mike
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #63 on: January 24, 2008, 08:46:33 PM »

BTW - this so called "study" was funded by George Soros & a variety of left wing groups.

Very interesting the AP "forgot" that tidbit of pertinent information when they wrote the article.  Why?

Internet is great for exposing stuff - cuts both ways.
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #64 on: January 26, 2008, 12:39:21 AM »


You have to love this.......Kerry going after Clinton  who would have thought

I must be in the twilight zone

The Democrats in self destruct mode........you cannot make this stuff up
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #65 on: January 27, 2008, 12:18:02 PM »

Jorge...

Not only is Bush and his "crew" liars, but Bush will go down in history as one of the worst presidents this country has ever had...the man is an absolute idiot.

Typical left wing reponse, grammar school insults.
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #66 on: January 27, 2008, 12:22:15 PM »

Typical left wing reponse, grammar school insults.
It shows how successful the politicians are at polarizing the electorate!!  :nervous:
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #67 on: January 27, 2008, 12:30:01 PM »

Typical left wing reponse, grammar school insults.


Various "wing"-ed responses have been the norm here.  Feel free to knock the elected officers.  We choose them, we pay them, we can bitch about them and call them names.  It's part of the process.  It feels good to vent.  It's even a right so far as political speech is concerned.

The personal insults to each other, however, are a crock.  And beneath this group of people.  Not long ago I got witness personally how good this group can be.  The same group is better than not being able to discuss what they don't agree without saying stupid things about one another.

I agree with some of what Terry has to say.  I disagree with other of what he has to say.  There are areas where he and I would each believe the other is a full off tilt random trajectory nut job without heart or compassion for our fellow man.  That he would take the time to make an effort at reasoned political discourse, as others have also, is complimentary in and of itself though.  Lots of places in the world that's not even allowed if you happen to be in the opposition.  So, please, don't be some sophomoric as to complain of typical grammar school repsonses. 

For one thing real thought, effort and search has gone in to much of the discourse on both side; so it hardly is simple or stupid whether you agree with it or not.  Even more importantly it's beneath the friends on both sides.
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #68 on: January 27, 2008, 12:33:41 PM »


Various "wing"-ed responses have been the norm here.  Feel free to knock the elected officers.  We choose them, we pay them, we can bitch about them and call them names.  It's part of the process.  It feels good to vent.  It's even a right so far as political speech is concerned.

The personal insults to each other, however, are a crock.  And beneath this group of people.  Not long ago I got witness personally how good this group can be.  The same group is better than not being able to discuss what they don't agree without saying stupid things about one another.

I agree with some of what Terry has to say.  I disagree with other of what he has to say.  There are areas where he and I would each believe the other is a full off tilt random trajectory nut job without heart or compassion for our fellow man.  That he would take the time to make an effort at reasoned political discourse, as others have also, is complimentary in and of itself though.  Lots of places in the world that's not even allowed if you happen to be in the opposition.  So, please, don't be some sophomoric as to complain of typical grammar school repsonses. 

For one thing real thought, effort and search has gone in to much of the discourse on both side; so it hardly is simple or stupid whether you agree with it or not.  Even more importantly it's beneath the friends on both sides.

Can't we all just learn to get along? :nixweiss:

Kumbayah my Lord, kumbayah
Kumbayah my Lord, kumbayah
Kumbayah my Lord, kumbayah
Oh Lord, kumbayah

Someone's singing my Lord, kumbaya
Someone's singing my Lord, kumbaya
Someone's singing my Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbayah

Someone's laughing, my Lord, cumbaya
Someone's laughing, my Lord, cumbaya
Someone's laughing,my Lord, cumbaya
Oh Lord, cumbaya

Someone's crying, my Lord, cumbayah
Someone's crying, my Lord, cumbayah
Someone's crying, my Lord, cumbayah
Oh Lord, cumbayah

Someone's praying, my Lord, kumbaya
Someone's praying, my Lord, kumbaya
Someone's praying, my Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbaya

Someone's sleeping, my Lord, kumbaya
Someone's sleeping, my Lord, kumbaya
Someone's sleeping,my Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbaya

 ;D

Hoist! 8)
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #69 on: January 27, 2008, 12:35:45 PM »


Various "wing"-ed responses have been the norm here.  Feel free to knock the elected officers.  We choose them, we pay them, we can bitch about them and call them names.  It's part of the process.  It feels good to vent.  It's even a right so far as political speech is concerned.

The personal insults to each other, however, are a crock.  And beneath this group of people.  Not long ago I got witness personally how good this group can be.  The same group is better than not being able to discuss what they don't agree without saying stupid things about one another.

I agree with some of what Terry has to say.  I disagree with other of what he has to say.  There are areas where he and I would each believe the other is a full off tilt random trajectory nut job without heart or compassion for our fellow man.  That he would take the time to make an effort at reasoned political discourse, as others have also, is complimentary in and of itself though.  Lots of places in the world that's not even allowed if you happen to be in the opposition.  So, please, don't be some sophomoric as to complain of typical grammar school repsonses. 

For one thing real thought, effort and search has gone in to much of the discourse on both side; so it hardly is simple or stupid whether you agree with it or not.  Even more importantly it's beneath the friends on both sides.
When I grow up  :nixweiss: I would like to write as eloquently as Mr. Twolanerider!  :2vrolijk_21: Very well put Don!!
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #70 on: January 27, 2008, 12:44:04 PM »

By Lily Hindy - ASSOCIATED PRESS        (this article was in the Buffalo News, January 26,2008
Updated: 01/26/08 6:50 AM


U.S.invasion was surprise, Saddam told agent

Saddam wanted Iran to think he had WMD.
NEW YORK — Saddam Hussein allowed the world to believe he had weapons of mass destruction to deter rival Iran and did not think the United States would stage a major invasion, according to an FBI interrogator who questioned the Iraqi leader after his capture.

Saddam expected only a limited U.S. aerial attack and thought he could remain in control, FBI agent George Piro told CBS’ “60 Minutes” program in an interview to be broadcast Sunday.

“He told me he initially miscalculated . . . President Bush’s intentions,” Piro said. “He thought the United States would retaliate with the same type of attack as we did in 1998 . . . a four- day aerial attack.”

The Associated Press spoke to a close aide of Saddam in August 2003, who said that Saddam did not expect a U.S. invasion and deliberately kept the world guessing about his weapons program, although he already had gotten rid of it.

Saddam publicly denied having unconventional weapons before the U.S. invasion but prevented U.N. inspectors from working in the country from 1998 until 2002. When they finally returned in November 2002, they often complained that Iraq wasn’t fully cooperating.

Piro, a Lebanese- American who speaks Arabic, debriefed Saddam after he was found in an underground hideout in December 2003 near his home city north of Baghdad, nine months after the U.S. invasion.

Piro said Saddam told him that he wanted to keep up the illusion that he had the weapons program in part because he thought it would deter a likely Iranian invasion.

“For him, it was critical that he was seen as still the strong, defiant Saddam. He thought that [faking having the weapons] would prevent the Iranians from reinvading Iraq,” Piro told Scott Pelley of “60 Minutes.”

Piro added that Saddam intended to restart the weapons program and had engineers available for chemical, biological and nuclear weapons.

Piro said Saddam revealed what pushed him to invade Kuwait in 1990: an insulting comment that the Kuwaiti leader, Sheik Jaber Al Ahmed Al Sabah, made about Iraqi women.

Piro said Al Sabah told the Iraqi foreign minister during talks aimed at resolving some of the conflicts between the two countries that “he would not stop doing what he was doing until he turned every Iraqi woman into a $10 prostitute.”

“And that really sealed it for him, to invade Kuwait,” Piro said.





therein lies the culprit himself.   you want the world and your enemies to think you have them,  so you put out all the intelligence that you do,,,, but never think of the consequences.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2008, 12:50:14 PM by harleyteam »
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SPIDERMAN

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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #71 on: January 27, 2008, 12:58:40 PM »

To answer the question posed by the title of this thread.

Absolutely, unequivocably NO, but his regime is damn near over and I'm looking ahead to someone who can put us back on course to peace and prosperity.

I am so sick of Clinton bashing, Bush bashing, Kerry bashing, Chaney bashing , name a politcian and we've all bashed or annoited the SOB in the past 20 years.

So let's get it straight. Nobody's going to impeach this guy and nobody's going to add his face to Mt Rushmore, so can we please all move on ?

Thanks

B B
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #72 on: January 27, 2008, 01:19:10 PM »

therein lies the culprit himself.   you want the world and your enemies to think you have them,  so you put out all the intelligence that you do,,,, but never think of the consequences.

To understand "todays" conflicts and global poitics I believe we must try to acquire a THOROUGH historical background from places other than traditional news. Saddam killed many innocent people over the years including 37 US sailors with NO consequences. He had no reason to think he would the recipient of our wrath given his murderous unanswered history.

For a good look into the history of politics in the region try reading Inside the Danger Zone written by Harold Lee Wise. Our current position in and around the entire region started long before GW and weapons of mass destruction. For all my friends that take the time to research facts this is a fast read that doesn't stink of leftism or rightism. Give it a try I think you'll be surprised on many levels. Just another piece of the puzzle - but an important one all the same.

One things for sure if we want to "fix" things we have to take the time to do some honest factual research (outside the box that is). Nothing happens in a vacuum not immigration, not Iraq, our economy or any other aspect of this great American lifestyle we are blessed to be a part of.

And while we complain and point fingers at the cause of our angst I'm always cognisant of the fact that WE the people seem to assume very little individual personal responsibility.
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #73 on: January 27, 2008, 01:37:14 PM »

Jorge...

Not only is Bush and his "crew" liars, but Bush will go down in history as one of the worst presidents this country has ever had...the man is an absolute idiot.

I should rephrase that statement, and apologize for being so blunt.

That GW is not the brightest bulb in the box is not a partisan opinion, and neither is his lack of fully understanding all facets of any given problem.

In my opinion, a good leader, even if they are not the most intelligent being on the planet, should surround him/herself with people/advisers who bring different perspectives to the table, regardless of political affiliation, and actually listen to what they have to say...not blow them off just because their opinions/advice do not fit with their point of view.  They might actually offer up a reasonable argument contrary to his/her preconceived notions.

As I have stated previously, very, very few issues facing the country (the world, for that matter) stand in a vacuum...almost every action taken has a ripple effect, and until all those ripples have been examined and weighed, it is better to take no action at all.  As I've also said, there absolutely are no simple solutions to very complex problems.  This country has not been appointed by anyone to be "King of The Planet"...there is always room for reasonable differences in thought...there are truths to be found in all.  Last time I looked, there were no absolutes...
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #74 on: January 27, 2008, 01:48:39 PM »

I should rephrase that statement, and apologize for being so blunt.

That GW is not the brightest bulb in the box is not a partisan opinion, and neither is his lack of fully understanding all facets of any given problem.

In my opinion, a good leader, even if they are not the most intelligent being on the planet, should surround him/herself with people/advisers who bring different perspectives to the table, regardless of political affiliation, and actually listen to what they have to say...not blow them off just because their opinions/advice do not fit with their point of view.  They might actually offer up a reasonable argument contrary to his/her preconceived notions.

As I have stated previously, very, very few issues facing the country (the world, for that matter) stand in a vacuum...almost every action taken has a ripple effect, and until all those ripples have been examined and weighed, it is better to take no action at all.  As I've also said, there absolutely are no simple solutions to very complex problems.  This country has not been appointed by anyone to be "King of The Planet"...there is always room for reasonable differences in thought...there are truths to be found in all.  Last time I looked, there were no absolutes...

"The Planet" has no boundries! Countries are a man-made concept, whose borders and rules are used to control of groups of people. Some are controlled in a Democratic fashion with its associated rules. And others are controlled forcefully. And as in nature, only the strongest of a species survive and evolve! Until something stronger comes around, that is! ;)

And BTW, I'm very fortunate to belong to one of the strongest man-made boundaries ever!!! And may we only get stronger!!! :2vrolijk_21:

Hoist! 8)
« Last Edit: January 27, 2008, 02:06:37 PM by Hoist »
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #75 on: January 27, 2008, 01:53:00 PM »

I should rephrase that statement, and apologize for being so blunt.

That GW is not the brightest bulb in the box is not a partisan opinion, and neither is his lack of fully understanding all facets of any given problem.

In my opinion, a good leader, even if they are not the most intelligent being on the planet, should surround him/herself with people/advisers who bring different perspectives to the table, regardless of political affiliation, and actually listen to what they have to say...not blow them off just because their opinions/advice do not fit with their point of view.  They might actually offer up a reasonable argument contrary to his/her preconceived notions.

As I have stated previously, very, very few issues facing the country (the world, for that matter) stand in a vacuum...almost every action taken has a ripple effect, and until all those ripples have been examined and weighed, it is better to take no action at all.  As I've also said, there absolutely are no simple solutions to very complex problems.  This country has not been appointed by anyone to be "King of The Planet"...there is always room for reasonable differences in thought...there are truths to be found in all.  Last time I looked, there were no absolutes...
Terry these two statements seem to be contradictory. "What the US can do, and should do, is provide leadership to the rest of the world in all things...that puts pressure on other countries to make better policy". This one is from your post #50. Unless I lost it's meaning from a context standpoint the two leave me confused on your position. Would you mind to clarify.

By the way this is not an attack on Terry, just merely two friends discussing points of view. I've never met you Terry and I must say that we do differ greatly on SOME of these matters but I still look forward to us sitting down over a cold one. And I personally think that it's the sharing of ideas that make us wiser. It's important to keep this in context for me!  :2vrolijk_21:
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #76 on: January 27, 2008, 01:55:41 PM »

WE the people seem to assume very little individual personal responsibility.
well.......we are all part of the 'me' culture, aren't we?  I think the last 'war' this country got involved with that in which most of the citizens actually sacrificed more than 'lip service' was WWII.  Lots of analogies between the way that war and the current war got started......but seems to end with the degree of support the citizens engaged in........It's as if now that we're part of a world economy instead of a country economy, it's as if what is good for the individual is more important than what's good for the country.  More Corporate profits by shipping our jobs to whereever.....the same as allowing 'illegals' to perform our jobs in-country at less costs for increased profits even though breaking laws and pressuring  our tax-supported systems to the point of breaking.  Hmmmm.  Maybe we're electing officials that give us just what were wanting???  :confused5:  spyder
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #77 on: January 27, 2008, 01:58:44 PM »

well.......we are all part of the 'me' culture, aren't we?  I think the last 'war' this country got involved with that in which most of the citizens actually sacrificed more than 'lip service' was WWII.  Lots of analogies between the way that war and the current war got started......but seems to end with the degree of support the citizens engaged in........It's as if now that we're part of a world economy instead of a country economy, it's as if what is good for the individual is more important than what's good for the country.  More Corporate profits by shipping our jobs to whereever.....the same as allowing 'illegals' to perform our jobs in-country at less costs for increased profits even though breaking laws and pressuring  our tax-supported systems to the point of breaking.  Hmmmm.  Maybe we're electing officials that give us just what were wanting???  :confused5:  spyder
Ya know Spydy I have given much thought to the question about the government using tax revenue vs war bonds for our war efforts. Seems to me using the tax revenue removes all personal accountability unless you have a loved one thats served or serving!! Just my .02
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #78 on: January 27, 2008, 02:34:27 PM »



Little listening is being done among all the talking.  So no one will notice this:


I have a rash, on my butt.

On one cheek it looks kind of like an elephant.

On the other it looks a lot like a donkey :nixweiss: .
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #79 on: January 27, 2008, 02:50:45 PM »


Little listening is being done among all the talking.  So no one will notice this:


I have a rash, on my butt.

On one cheek it looks kind of like an elephant.

On the other it looks a lot like a donkey :nixweiss: .
well, I see the discussion has taken a 'tail-wind'.  :oops: :o har! :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:  spyder
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #80 on: January 27, 2008, 02:56:40 PM »

well, I see the discussion has taken a 'tail-wind'.  :oops: :o har! :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:  spyder
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: 
 :cowboy: :beatdeadhorse:

Jackass?  Maybe? 
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #81 on: January 27, 2008, 02:58:34 PM »



I have a rash, on my butt.

On one cheek it looks kind of like an elephant.

On the other it looks a lot like a donkey :nixweiss: .

:worthless:

??? :huepfenlol2: ???
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #82 on: January 27, 2008, 02:59:57 PM »

Hey that is your tail wind you are asking for pictures of buddy

 :nervous: :nervous: :nervous: :nervous: :nervous:
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #83 on: January 27, 2008, 03:01:44 PM »

Hey that is your tail wind you are asking for pictures of buddy

 :nervous: :nervous: :nervous: :nervous: :nervous:


Quit making me laugh dammit :huepfenlol2: .  Ooops, sorry, you're name isn't dammit :coolblue: .
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #84 on: January 27, 2008, 03:16:01 PM »

:worthless:

??? :huepfenlol2: ???

Don,
      You win the Hoist Most Shameless Example of Post Count Boosting Award, for the day (perhaps the week) for quoting yourself

That's lame even for an admitted self agrandizer like you

B B
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #85 on: January 27, 2008, 03:17:23 PM »

Terry these two statements seem to be contradictory. "What the US can do, and should do, is provide leadership to the rest of the world in all things...that puts pressure on other countries to make better policy". This one is from your post #50. Unless I lost it's meaning from a context standpoint the two leave me confused on your position. Would you mind to clarify.

By the way this is not an attack on Terry, just merely two friends discussing points of view. I've never met you Terry and I must say that we do differ greatly on SOME of these matters but I still look forward to us sitting down over a cold one. And I personally think that it's the sharing of ideas that make us wiser. It's important to keep this in context for me!  :2vrolijk_21:


One was an abstraction of our position as a country,and the other more literal.   The days of forcing our principles of government, religion, etc are long gone.  It is my opinion that good leadership, no matter the context, is best done by by example....good examples.

I am certain we could sit down and have a beer or three together and be friends, and hope that opportunity presents itself at some point in time.. :2vrolijk_21:
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #86 on: January 27, 2008, 03:18:39 PM »

Hey that is your tail wind you are asking for pictures of buddy

 :nervous: :nervous: :nervous: :nervous: :nervous:

As much as I think of Don, please do not give me a visual any worse than the one already in mind... :nervous:
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #87 on: January 27, 2008, 03:20:17 PM »

Don,
      You win the Hoist Most Shameless Example of Post Count Boosting Award, for the day (perhaps the week) for quoting yourself

That's lame even for an admitted self agrandizer like you

B B

What does "agrandizer" mean?
Was gonna google it but was scared what the answer would be!

 :nixweiss:         :nixweiss:
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #88 on: January 27, 2008, 03:22:18 PM »

Ag´gran`di`zer
n. 1. One who aggrandizes, or makes great.

Aggrandize:
1.To increase the scope of; extend.
2.To make greater in power, influence, stature, or reputation.
3.To make appear greater; exaggerate: aggrandize one argument while belittling another

And why the hell not!!! ::) :P :drink:

Hoist! 8)

« Last Edit: January 27, 2008, 03:24:32 PM by Hoist »
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #89 on: January 27, 2008, 03:24:05 PM »

Don,
      You win the Hoist Most Shameless Example of Post Count Boosting Award, for the day (perhaps the week) for quoting yourself

That's lame even for an admitted self agrandizer like you

B B


Thankyewveramuch.

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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #90 on: January 27, 2008, 03:25:43 PM »

What does "agrandizer" mean?
Was gonna google it but was scared what the answer would be!

 :nixweiss:         :nixweiss:

Gotta love our bro Chip, he may not know what some 50 cent words mean, but I'll bet my daughter's chastity, he can tell you every little detail of every denomination of US currency.

B B
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #91 on: January 27, 2008, 03:26:53 PM »

As much as I think of Don, please do not give me a visual any worse than the one already in mind... :nervous:

uh oh.....  ???

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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #92 on: January 27, 2008, 03:31:37 PM »

Ag´gran`di`zer
n. 1. One who aggrandizes, or makes great.

Aggrandize:
1.To increase the scope of; extend.
2.To make greater in power, influence, stature, or reputation.
3.To make appear greater; exaggerate: aggrandize one argument while belittling another

And why the hell not!!! ::) :P :drink:

Hoist! 8)



Thanks Howie!

 :2vrolijk_21:
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #93 on: January 28, 2008, 01:25:47 PM »

Well TEd Kennedy Announces that he supports oboma for presdient, That seals the deal more me I know now not to support him for anything.  ;D
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #94 on: January 28, 2008, 01:37:16 PM »

Well TEd Kennedy Announces that he supports oboma for presdient, That seals the deal more me I know now not to support him for anything.  ;D

And, has anyone every figured out why the folks in Mass. keep electing Ted Kennedy?????
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #95 on: January 28, 2008, 02:01:33 PM »

And, has anyone every figured out why the folks in Mass. keep electing Ted Kennedy?????



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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #96 on: January 28, 2008, 02:20:12 PM »

Random responses to random unanswered questions that might have been asked except hardly anybody quits yakking long including me particularly:

1.  Yes, someday President George W. Bush may have his face on Mt. Rushmore.  No telling what succeeding generations will or will not do.  For example, Silly Sting was not around in the 1940s.

2.  President George W. Bush may well be the brightest or nearly the brightest bulb in the box. That also is a non partisan opinion.

3.  "Shameless Post Counters" would be a good name for a rock & roll band.
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #97 on: January 28, 2008, 02:29:20 PM »

Random responses to random unanswered questions that might have been asked except hardly anybody quits yakking long including me particularly:

1.  Yes, someday President George W. Bush may have his face on Mt. Rushmore.  No telling what succeeding generations will or will not do.  For example, Silly Sting was not around in the 1940s.

2.  President George W. Bush may well be the brightest or nearly the brightest bulb in the box. That also is a non partisan opinion.

3.  "Shameless Post Counters" would be a good name for a rock & roll band.


I like it!  Maybe a Punk Band?
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #98 on: January 28, 2008, 02:31:22 PM »


I like it!  Maybe a Punk Band?

Yeah.  Bands with different sounding names is usually a good idea since some of them have boring names. Like Genesis. Well, most aren't as boring as Genesis - that's an exception.  ;D
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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #99 on: January 28, 2008, 02:36:05 PM »

Yeah.  Bands with different sounding names is usually a good idea since some of them have boring names. Like Genesis. Well, most aren't as boring as Genesis - that's an exception.  ;D

We had a couple of bands that used to play around here a few years ago...Butthole Surfers was one, and Velcro Pigmy's was another.  Gotta love the names.  A great blues band here is Dick's Hat Band...a bunch of old farts like us who just play and have a good time.
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iski

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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #100 on: January 28, 2008, 02:44:49 PM »

We had a couple of bands that used to play around here a few years ago...Butthole Surfers was one, and Velcro Pigmy's was another.  Gotta love the names.  A great blues band here is Dick's Hat Band...a bunch of old farts like us who just play and have a good time.

Butthole Surfers was fronted by a guy whose dad was Mr. Peppermint on a local kid's tv show when I was a kid.  Saw 'em.  Not much like Mr. Peppermint.

Here's a band that plays the Florida Keys:  http://keysdining.com/woodys/index.htm

Big Dick & the Extenders
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LRebel

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Re: Does he deserve to be our President?
« Reply #101 on: January 28, 2008, 03:38:16 PM »

Interesting band names here in Oklahoma:  Hillbilly Einstein - 36 Inches - and Pinky & the Snake Shakers.  These are regulars at the rallies around here.  They are really pretty good for local talent.
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