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[Eqcons]

Apologies if I've missed this anywhere, guys, but has there been any discussion of (and has anybody tried!) the Headquarters Pro Tuner?

As regular readers might recall, I use a TMAT, but because it doesn't use the Knock sensor, I'm a little uncomfortable with it.    From what I read about the Headquarters Pro Tuner, it would solve that completely. Their website - http://www.head-quarters-usa.com - is a little light on detail, but it says: 

"The Head Quarters ProTuner combines all the functionality of the Screamin Eagle Race Tuner, the dependability of utilizing your factory ECM, and the latest technology available for Automatic EFI Fuel System management. Not to mention ease of use...comes custom programmed for high performance builds, no complex setup procedures, no guesswork, and best of all, no expensive dyno fees.

It's simple...load a map into your factory ECM with the Screamin Eagle Race Tuner, hook up the Head Quarters ProTuner, and go ride...it does the rest! Minor timing adjustments may be required depending on your build which is done with your Race Tuner.

No matter how you ride, the Head Quarters ProTuner EFI Fuel System Controller learns and remembers your riding style while constantly monitoring and correcting your A/F ratio as needed...up 500 times per second!"

And that sounds like the answer to my prayers! But then, so did the TMAT........

Jim

[Chief]

Apologies if I've missed this anywhere, guys, but has there been any discussion of (and has anybody tried!) the Headquarters Pro Tuner?

As regular readers might recall, I use a TMAT, but because it doesn't use the Knock sensor, I'm a little uncomfortable with it.    From what I read about the Headquarters Pro Tuner, it would solve that completely. Thier website - http://www.head-quarters-usa.com - is a little light on detail, but it says: 

"The Head Quarters ProTuner combines all the functionality of the Screamin Eagle Race Tuner, the dependability of utilizing your factory ECM, and the latest technology available for Automatic EFI Fuel System management. Not to mention ease of use...comes custom programmed for high performance builds, no complex setup procedures, no guesswork, and best of all, no expensive dyno fees.

It's simple...load a map into your factory ECM with the Screamin Eagle Race Tuner, hook up the Head Quarters ProTuner, and go ride...it does the rest! Minor timing adjustments may be required depending on your build which is done with your Race Tuner.

No matter how you ride, the Head Quarters ProTuner EFI Fuel System Controller learns and remembers your riding style while constantly monitoring and correcting your A/F ratio as needed...up 500 times per second!"

And that sounds like the answer to my prayers! But then, so did the TMAT........

Jim

To me, the down side to this is that you need BOTH the SERT and the Pro Tuner. What's up with that?

[sefatboyscott]

 

no expensive dyno fees.

It's simple...load a map into your factory ECM with the Screamin Eagle Race Tuner, hook up the Head Quarters ProTuner, and go ride...it does the rest! i]

 
I guess I am missing something. So are we saying that the SERT plus about another 400 bucks or more of dyno time to make a custom map is not good enough??? I have not needed this new device spoken of here yet........wierd. It seems like if you spend the money on a good tune this product is irrelivant. What is it that I don't get?

[Chief]

I guess I am missing something. So are we saying that the SERT plus about another 400 bucks or more of dyno time to make a custom map is not good enough??? I have not needed this new device spoken of here yet........wierd. It seems like if you spend the money on a good tune this product is irrelivant. What is it that I don't get?

In theory, a good dyno tune is good for the set of conditions under which it was tuned. Things change that will move the AFR around. This tuner provides some auto tuning capabilities, but evidently not very much, which is why you need a SERT to get it close. The Pro Tuner aims to keep it spot on in different conditions.

[Chief]

Plus, it's another $465US, on top of the SERT of PC.

I have a lot of respect for Doug and what he does at HQ, but I don't know if I would want to add another piece of hardware into the puzzle. ECM + PC + Pro Tuner? Not me.

[sefatboyscott]

Ok, thanks Chief. Makes more sense to me now. Would make much more sense if it was a broad spectrum of "auto" tune, could put the SERT the PC3 and alot of tuners out of business, I guess that is at the same time the reason it doesn't...........it's not that it couldn't do that, they just won't make it do that. Kind of like the engine that can run on water..........it's not that they can't, it's because they won't.

A cure for the common cold was filed at the patent office in the early 70's, why don't they produce it? Simple answer........too many people work making cold remedies. Imagine Bayer, Robotussin, Tylenol, Nyquil etc all going out of business on the same day? Remember the car built by Tucker made to last a lifetime?

They could probably cure cancer, but then how would they make all that money prolonging your life long enough to suck off all the insurance money, then your money and finally your childrens money before you finally die anyway?

There are alot of things that the ability and technology is there to do but it's not as profitable, why is it we baught our bikes thinking they were complete, thousands of dollars later there is always still more chit to do?....They, whoever "they" are  know exactly what "they" are doing and it all comes down to how much money can they make and for how long.

This is a generalization, I don't know Doug.

[Chief]

Ok, thanks Chief. Makes more sense to me now. Would make much more sense if it was a broad spectrum of "auto" tune, could put the SERT the PC3 and alot of tuners out of business, I guess that is at the same time the reason it doesn't...........it's not that it couldn't do that, they just won't make it do that. Kind of like the engine that can run on water..........it's not that they can't, it's because they won't.

A cure for the common cold was filed at the patent office in the early 70's, why don't they produce it? Simple answer........too many people work making cold remedies. Imagine Bayer, Robotussin, Tylenol, Nyquil etc all going out of business on the same day? Remember the car built by Tucker made to last a lifetime?

They could probably cure cancer, but then how would they make all that money prolonging your life long enough to suck off all the insurance money, then your money and finally your childrens money before you finally die anyway?

There are alot of things that the ability and technology is there to do but it's not as profitable, why is it we baught our bikes thinking they were complete, thousands of dollars later there is always still more chit to do?....They, whoever "they" are  know exactly what "they" are doing and it all comes down to how much money can they make and for how long.

This is a generalization, I don't know Doug.

Doug,

Just last summer, we went a few rounds with a device refered to as the TMAT. THis is the Zippers Thunder Max ECM and their Auto Tune module. It replaces the Harley ECM and is supposed to be idiot proof and self tune from zero. It just didn't work out that way for everyone. Some users have it and love it and others had terrible experiences with it and the company's support, or lack thereof.

This is the future, it has to be. We're just at the early stages right now. There were three units out there, Daytona TwinTec, Terrys Components and the Zippers TMAX. Now HQ is getting involved. I think it is a safe bet that Howie will come back from the V-Twin Expo and be able to tell us about aa few more that are being released soon.

We're getting close, but just not there yet. Maybe this will be the year?

[sadunbar]

Doug,

Just last summer, we went a few rounds with a device refered to as the TMAT. THis is the Zippers Thunder Max ECM and their Auto Tune module. It replaces the Harley ECM and is supposed to be idiot proof and self tune from zero. It just didn't work out that way for everyone. Some users have it and love it and others had terrible experiences with it and the company's support, or lack thereof.

This is the future, it has to be. We're just at the early stages right now. There were three units out there, Daytona TwinTec, Terrys Components and the Zippers TMAX. Now HQ is getting involved. I think it is a safe bet that Howie will come back from the V-Twin Expo and be able to tell us about aa few more that are being released soon.

We're getting close, but just not there yet. Maybe this will be the year?

And S&S has a version...  I went the TMAX route for awhile last summer until I became fed up with Zippers and their non existent support - but I like the concept - and I agree it is the way of the future.  But, I am going to stick with PC and let others develop the technology.  I had my turn in the barrel with the TMAX.   

Scott

[grc]

Basically, this looks to be just another way to spend extra money for very little if any gain over a good dyno tune.  In theory, once you have a good base map (SERT and dyno tune) this system will make minor corrections to the fuel settings to allow for changes in atmospheric conditions, fuel quality, sensor variation, etc.  In other words, a feedback system similar to the other closed loop systems.  If you notice, they mention in the description that it doesn't do timing; for that you go back to the SERT and the dyno.

It totally amazes me how folks who used to ride bikes with a carburetor that was tuned by the seat-of-the-pants method and was rarely jetted better than "close enough" will now spend a thousand bucks or more in search of the "perfect" mixture.  At some point, after taking care of the super lean stock mixture problem with a SERT, PC, etc., it's time to get realistic and move on.  Spend that cash burning a hole in your pocket on something useful that will enhance the ownership experience, like decent suspension pieces, or a little more chrome (threw that one in for you, 'd00d).

JMHO - Jerry

[Twolanerider]

It totally amazes me how folks who used to ride bikes with a carburetor that was tuned by the seat-of-the-pants method and was rarely jetted better than "close enough" will now spend a thousand bucks or more in search of the "perfect" mixture.  At some point, after taking care of the super lean stock mixture problem with a SERT, PC, etc., it's time to get realistic and move on.  Spend that cash burning a hole in your pocket on something useful that will enhance the ownership experience, like decent suspension pieces, or a little more chrome (threw that one in for you, 'd00d).

JMHO - Jerry

Damn straight.  I sure am glad me and Jerry were smart enough to never try out that Thundermax hardware!!

[grc]

Damn straight.  I sure am glad me and Jerry were smart enough to never try out that Thundermax hardware!!

 

[Eqcons]

Basically, this looks to be just another way to spend extra money for very little if any gain over a good dyno tune. 

Here in the wilds of Scotland, getting ANY dyno tune is not easy.  Had my 06 CUSE (with PC3) done at one of the only two Dynojet places in Scotland.  The job they did was krap.  Really, truly, krap.  The dyno at the second place is too close to the wall to get a Glide on!

For me - at a similar overall cost (i.e. SERT + this gizmo) to the TMAT, loading the SERT map for my bike, using this to cope with my long touring runs and adjust to suit the high temperatures, etc,  AND use the knock sensor, while staying with the stock ECM.... would be a Godsend if it does what it says on the tin.  The TMAT is fine, UNTIL you reach any conditions that start the motor pinging. Last summer, crossing the Sierra Nevada in Spain, my motor sounded like a shop full of blacksmiths pounding their anvils with big hammers. The TMAT knows nothing about that - using the stock ECM, map loaded by SERT, and this device tidying up the A/F ratio as the conditions change, must surely be a good thing, no?

Jim

[Eqcons]

To me, the down side to this is that you need BOTH the SERT and the Pro Tuner. What's up with that?

Similar price the TMAT overall though Chief, and you get to keep the stock ECU, besides which the knock sensor is still used, which for me is the big failing in the TMAT.

Jim

[Chief]

Similar price the TMAT overall though Chief, and you get to keep the stock ECU, besides which the knock sensor is still used, which for me is the big failing in the TMAT.

Jim

I guess that's true. I didn't think of it like that. I'm with Jerry tho in that a good SERT/PC tune is really all you should need.

[Eqcons]

I'm with Jerry tho in that a good SERT/PC tune is really all you should need.

I don't agree.  Look at my situation, for example; let's assume I could get a decent dyno tune done, which I can't, but let's assume I can.  I live at 56 degrees north, it's cold, and it never gets much above sea level, in relative terms.   When I take a vacation on my bike, I head into mainland Europe. I can get as far south as to be within sight of Africa, I can cross mountain ranges like the Alps, or the Pyrenees, or the Sierra Nevada.  I do that sort of thing every year, doing more miles - in varied conditions - than I do at home. My bike, nicely tuned at home, in the home environment, spends most of its time out of tune!  A device like this that can autotune AND use the knock sensor, is a gift from heaven for me - IF it works....

Jim