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Author Topic: Would Changing Gearing Create Any "Fun" Torque Benefits For Our FXR's  (Read 11185 times)

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FXR2evo99

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Ok.....so I have been pretty wrapped up in reading and acquiring parts for doing a gear change on my 2002 Road King Classic from 3.15 gearing to 3.37 gearing.  which will lower my top speed by aprox 7% and will increase my "torque" and "fun" + 7% lol.  Yes I know this is in reference to a "bagger" and a much heavier bike......

So I have been thinking....while an FXR2 is about 95 lbs lighter have any of you thought about a gear change to make the FXR2 FXR3 or FXR4 more torqueeee????

Right now the bike is geared pretty high for highway riding.....and great gas mileage......

I am curious if any one has taken any time to either research this or implement a change in their stock gearing....I am "primarily"  <~~~lol no pun intended..... Only interested in changing either the compenstating sprocket or the clutch basket (ring gear).....without needing to change the chain or the pully or the sprocket on the rear wheel.....something which can be done internally to the "primary"......

Right now I am running a V~Thunder 3010 cam and I very much like the "pull" of it......As I have said since I have spent so much time reviewing and reading about changing the gearing on my 2002 RKC, I thought I might create some dialogue about our FXR's.......

So let's discuss.....

Regards,

"Classic"
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SPIDERMAN

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This is just my $0.02 as someone who used to be knee deep in FXR's

I would go with the primary gear change kit you can buy in the MoCo's P&A catalogue.

For under $200 you get a new comp sproket and primary chain

It is designed for what you're looking to accomplish I believe

B B
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FXR2evo99

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Spiderman.....

thanks for responding.....could you offer a bit more information....I would appreciate it....

Regards,

FXR2evo99
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SPIDERMAN

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Spiderman.....

thanks for responding.....could you offer a bit more information....I would appreciate it....

Regards,

FXR2evo99

I'll hunt up the P/N later. I don't have the right H-D catalogue here at work The kit changes the gear ratio of your primary. What that does is reduce the gear ratio of every gear in the trans. Gives you a lot quicker hole shots and more power by pushing up your RPM's and keeping you in the power band between shifts.

B B

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RedFXR2

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Ok.....so I have been pretty wrapped up in reading and acquiring parts for doing a gear change on my 2002 Road King Classic from 3.15 gearing to 3.37 gearing.  which will lower my top speed by aprox 7% and will increase my "torque" and "fun" + 7% lol. 

....while an FXR2 is about 95 lbs lighter have any of you thought about a gear change to make the FXR2 FXR3 or FXR4 more torqueeee????

Right now the bike is geared pretty high for highway riding.....and great gas mileage......


The kit changes the gear ratio of your primary. What that does is reduce the gear ratio of every gear in the trans. Gives you a lot quicker hole shots and more power by pushing up your RPM's and keeping you in the power band between shifts.


I'll be interested in seeing how this plays out, but me, I like the idea of loafing along at cruising speeds more than increased acceleration.  I got the acceleration and torque increase from the motor mods.

To each their own.  If anything I've actually pondered increasing the ratio of 4th and 5th gears or maybe going to a six-speed set in my stock trans case for lower RPM's at highway speeds.

But when it comes right down to it, before I'd do all that to my FXR2, I'd probably buy a second bike (bagger) with tall gearing for the road.
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SPIDERMAN

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On the older Evo models, the FXR and Touring bike had the same inner primary for the forward control FXLR, so the correct P/N for this I believe would be 40200-02. $134.95 list. It is IMHO the least expensive hot rod thing you can do to any bike. The kit gives you the gear for the comp sprocket and a new primary chain. Check it out on line via H-D's website. You should buy this from your local dealer and make sure the fitent is right for the FXR up front.
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FXR2evo99

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thanks spiderman.....

FXR2....

I'll be interested in seeing how this plays out, but me, I like the idea of loafing along at cruising speeds more than increased acceleration.  I got the acceleration and torque increase from the motor mods.  To each their own.  If anything I've actually pondered increasing the ratio of 4th and 5th gears or maybe going to a six-speed set in my stock trans case for lower RPM's at highway speeds.  But when it comes right down to it, before I'd do all that to my FXR2, I'd probably buy a second bike (bagger) with tall gearing for the road.

Well since I originally posted this thread I have discovered more information.....just waiting to collect more as well...but did you guys know that all of the 1993 FXR's ie: FXR Super Glide, FXRS-Sport, FXLR Low Rider Custom, FXLR Low Rider Custom 90th Anniversary Editon, & FXRS-CONV actually had 3.37 gearing as stock.....In 1994 HD changed the gearing of the inner primary to where it became 3.15.  Now our FXR2's and FXR3's have 2.925 gearing....that's pretty tall already FXR2. 

At 55 mph in 5th gear we couldn't be running more than 2290 rpms since at 3.15 gearing one would be running 2330 so hopefully you are running in 4th gear with your bike at this speed.
At 70 mph in 5th gear we couldn't be running more than 2925 rpms since at 3.15 gearin one would be running at 2970 rpms which in my opinion would never signify a need for an over drive yet.....at this speed.
At 75 mph in 5th gear we couldn't be running more than 3125 rpms since at 3.15 gearing one would be running 3180 rpms....still this is barely getting into the sweet spot of the engine....where it should be running very happy....I just don't see the need for a higher 5th gear or the need for a 6th gear at all.

At 80 mph in 5th gear we couldn't be running more than 3325 rpms since at 3.15 gearing one would be running at 3400 rpms.....still in the sweet spot....but yes it's getting a bit higher....but spending any time at 80 miles an hour is illegal anyway and now you are looking over your shoulder which takes the fun out of everything....so while I see 80 mph it's only in brief spurts or when passing....but I just don't cruise at this speed....besides the type of riding I enjoy doing would be more on the "county" highways where one's max speed might be what 60 miles an hour....when going cross country I spend very little time (as little as possible) on our interstate highways....

at 85 mph in 5th gear we couldn't be running more than 3550 rpms since at 3.15 gearing one would be running at 3600 rpms same explaination as for the 80 mph speed....just not an issue....

FXR2 lol, I do have a bagger....and I am getting ready to pull the gears down....to 3.37 from the taller gearing of 3.15....I feel the fun is in the mountains, light to light, and anywhere from 0 - 40 or 50 as quick as you can get there legally type of fun.....so I am looking for more torque even in my bagger....lol

Coming back to the FXR2 however I haven't convinced myself of the need to do this.....I am merely creating some dialogue on the topic....what others are thinking ie: like yourself....all opinions are valid and greatful of course.....

I just found it interesting that HD in 1993 for the FXR models:
FXR Super Glide (silver engine)
FXRS-SP  Sport somewhat like the FXDX of today....
FXLR Low Rider Custom
FXRS-Conv

that they were running 3.37 gearing...and the FXRS-CONV was considered a "touring bike"......

Interesting stuff when you start to research......I actually didn't know this information when I began doing this......but find it quite interesting....I haven't gone back to 1992, 1991, 1990 or further back to see what gearing was being ran in those FXR's....

While I don't have the part numbers to confirm or deny yet the 1994 FXRs (which were only two models the FXR Super Glide and the FXLR Low Rider Custom) they ahad a final gearing of 3.15 just as my 2002 Road King Classic...I wouldn't be surprised if all of the part numbers for the primary were matching.

I will say this also that the 1999 FXR2 and FXR3 models run the exact same parts ie: outer primary, compensating sprocket, clutch shell basket with ring gear, primary chain, transmission sprocket as my 2002 Road King Classic...the only difference is that the FXR2's and FXR3's runs a 65 tooth rear wheel sprocket vs a 70 tooth rear wheel sprocket on the 2002 Road King Classic making the difference between 2.925 for the FXR2 and FXR3 (I am not entirely sure what the FXR4's are running) and 3.15 gearing for the 2002 Road King Classic ( I am singling out the RKC as I own this bike so other touring models would also fit the description as well....)

I would also make this comment, gearing is a fascinating way to modify your engine, sport bike riders, dirt bike riders are always messing with gearing and counting teeth....it's just not that widely practiced in the HD world.....and I feel it can only compliment what you have already gained with other engine mods....whether that might be, cams, pistons, heads, etc....

Now I have to go figure out what Spiderman is trying to tell me....lol

All comments welcome....that's why I through out the topic.......

Regards,

FXR2evo99


« Last Edit: June 10, 2008, 12:05:42 AM by FXR2evo99 »
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FXR2evo99

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I'll hunt up the P/N later. I don't have the right H-D catalogue here at work The kit changes the gear ratio of your primary. What that does is reduce the gear ratio of every gear in the trans. Gives you a lot quicker hole shots and more power by pushing up your RPM's and keeping you in the power band between shifts.

On the older Evo models, the FXR and Touring bike had the same inner primary for the forward control FXLR, so the correct P/N for this I believe would be 40200-02. $134.95 list. It is IMHO the least expensive hot rod thing you can do to any bike. The kit gives you the gear for the comp sprocket and a new primary chain. Check it out on line via H-D's website. You should buy this from your local dealer and make sure the fitent is right for the FXR up front.


Spiderman....

I like the idea of reducing one's gear ratio of every gear in the transmission....which would provide for a lot quicker hole shots....and more power by pushing up one's RPM's while keeping me in the power band between shifts....<~~really like this idea.....

As I mentioned above.....the two years I am most interested in comparing would be 1993 and 1994 FXR's given that I have the ability to change my road king classic from 3.15 gearing to 3.37 gearing....by simply changing the compensating sprocket and the clutch shell basket these two models provide the basis for comparison and are most closely related to my 1999 FXR2 model.  So when you are talking about "older" model FXR's would you agree that one doesn't have to go too far back given that the 1993 FXR's indeed had 3.37 gearing.

I haven't looked it up yet, but what is HD# 40200-02 which retails for $134.95 referencing exactly, in other words what is this part number? So this kit provides a compensating sprocket and a new primary chain as a "unit" and sells for $135.00......ah and if I am reading correctly your not sure whether this will fit an FXR2 or not.....

So Spiderman....if I am reading you correctly as well....you would agree that 3.37 gearing would provide everything you just mentioned that I copied and pasted above...ie: quicker "hole" shots....keeping me more in the power band between shifts <~~~~so perhaps a more crisper response between shifts would be how one might experience this "seat of the pants" feel?????

Right now I have done a side by side comparision of parts between my 2002 Road King Classic and my 1999 FXR2 since I have both part manuals...and as I have stated above (besides the tensioner shoe set up) the only difference between 1999 FXR2 (2.292 final stock gearing) and the 2002 Road King Classic (3.15 final stock gearing) is the 133 tooth rear belt which is on the 1999 FXR2 compared to the 139 Tooth Rear Belt on the 2002 Road King Classic. The other difference is the 65 tooth rear wheel sprocket on the 1999 FXR2 compared to the 70 tooth rear wheel sprocket on the 2002 Road King Classic.  (NOW to get a 2002 RKC from 3.15 gearing to 3.37 gearing takes only changing out the 25 tooth compensating sprocket to a 24 tooth compensating sprocket and changing the clutch shell basket with ring gear that is 36 teeth to a 37 tooth clutch shell basket with ring gear (which happens to be the two different parts from a 2001 EFI Road King or Road King Classic, which then causes the 2002 RKC to have a final gearing of 3.37)

Thus the question is how to make this happen.......on a 1999 FXR2

since "PERHAPS" a 139 Tooth Rear Belt that is run on a 2002 Road King Classic may be "wider"????[Update both belts are 1 1/2" wide] than the stock rear belt that is only 133 Tooth on the FXR2.  However the transmission pulley on the 1999 FXR2 is part number HD# 40250-94A and has 32 Teeth, the transmission pulley on a 2002 Road King Classic is HD# 40250-94B and has 32 Teeth as well....so the question here is are both of these transmission pulleys the same width which would mean logically that the only difference between a 1999 FXR2 rear belt and a 2002 rear belt isn't the width of the belt but only the difference in the number of teeth (1999 FXR2 133 Teeth vs 2002 Road King Classic 139 Teeth) and then there is of course the differences between the 1999 FXR2 rear wheel sprocket HD# 40311-94 65 tooth and the 2002 Road King Classic rear wheel sprocket HD# 40217-00 70 tooth are there also width differences between these two sprockets..which could lead to a fitment issue if such existed....

Anyway.....that's what I am pondering right now....all input welcomed...

Regards,

FXR2evo99
« Last Edit: June 10, 2008, 02:28:32 AM by FXR2evo99 »
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SPIDERMAN

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Not sure if you're jackin around with me or what. If your aim is to show that you're a better mechanic than me, I don't claim to be anything more than a shadetree wrench. If your aim is to show you know your chit - - - good for you. Maybe I just don't get your style of posting. As for me, I read your original post and responded with what I thought would be a possible solution. The red highlighted portion of this post is copied from the 2007 Screamin Eagle Performance Parts Cataloge 99557-07SE Page 67

SCREAMIN EAGLE PRO RACE USE PRIMARY GEARING KIT
This is the kit that will help you get the holeshot at the racetrack. This kit increases vehicle acceleration by allowing the engine to spin higher RPM at any given vehicle speed. This new combination results in a 1.7:1 primary drive ratio versus the stock 1.44:1 ratio.



That's all I got. No more rounds in the chamber. 

B B
« Last Edit: June 10, 2008, 04:18:42 PM by SPIDERMAN »
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FXR2evo99

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ahhh nah not at all Spiderman.....I appreciate all that you have provided it's been helpful....I am a very very very thinly leaved shade tree mechanic....lol I have barely any leaves....in fact my tree looks like Charlie Brown's Christmas tree.....

You have more knowledge than I could ever absorb....seriously.....

No, I am not trying to "show my stuff"....not at all.....I have been trying to figure this all out via different options and how those options will truly effect the bike's performance.....

Don't worry if there's any confusion lol it rests with me.....I sincerely just appreciate you jumping over here and putting forth the effort you have....it's just the "style" of how I write....and how my mind processes things...don't worry it's miserable to live in my mind....lol

Regards,

FXR2evo99
« Last Edit: June 11, 2008, 03:44:01 AM by FXR2evo99 »
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FXR2evo99

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Re: Would Changing Gearing Create Any "Fun" Torque Benefits For Our FXR's
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2008, 01:54:11 PM »

Well....I finally put a chart together given the 2.925 gearing of the 1999 FXR2, I am assuming that the FXR3 has the same gearing but I have no idea what the gearing is for the 2000 FXR4.

Based upon the information below and the side by side comparisons of the given RPM values for say a 2.2925 geared 1999 FXR2 and FXR3 bike, a 3.15 geared 1994 FXLR,  and a 3.37 gearing that is offered on all of the 1989 - 1993 FXR's....I have actually reached a conclusion that to change the gearing wouldn't afford me what I thought I might have first been curious about gaining....and that was more torque "fun".  While indeed the 1989 -1993 FXR owners have experienced such I am left more curious about what it must feel like to go down a highway at 75-80 miles an hour given the lower gearing of the 3.37.  I am also feeling that the weight of the bike which my 1999 FXR2 comes in @ 575 lbs that with 3.37 lower gearing one is certainly "flying" through the gears more rapidly in part due to the weight of the bike....this realization at looking at the charted numbers below brings me right back to when I owned a 2003 Dyna Low Rider with 10.5 compression, S&S 570 cams and 3.15 gearing how that bike at the light would just want to take off...but it was a heavier bike with a bit different power plant....designed for more torque and power per say...so at the end of the day....staying with the 2.92 gearing certainly makes sense....there happens to be a fairly interesting post at Harley Tech Talk on this issue right now with a 1993 FXR owner who did some engine mods and is running with the 3.37 gearing is really determined to raise his gearing....from 3.37 to 3.08....I have found it an interesting post....and have participated with him as well in the discussion.....(ClassicRider2002) here it is click and read:

http://groups.msn.com/harleytechtalk/evo1340.msnw?action=get_message&ID_Message=1356852&ShowDelete=0&CDir=-2

I found that the timeliness of this thread was amazing as I have been reflecting on this due to the changes as I mentioned in the beginning about being involved in some gear changing in my other bike, a 2002 RKC....

here is the chart as well, but I also linked it as an attachment in the thread above....and it's in color there....lol

to be continued.....
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FXR2evo99

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Re: Would Changing Gearing Create Any "Fun" Torque Benefits For Our FXR's
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2008, 01:54:50 PM »

ontinued from Post #10

MPH 1st gear  2.925     3.15      3.37    

                    RPM       RPM       RPM
15                1600      1700      1800   
20                2300      2500      2700   
25                3250      3500      3700   
30                3500      3800      4000   
35                4200      4500      4800   
40                4800      5200      5500   
45                -----      ----      -----   



MPH 2nd gear  2.925   3.15    3.37    
                     RPM   RPM     RPM
15                 -----   -----   -----   
20                 -----   -----   -----   
25                2050   2200   2400   
30                2400   2600   2800   
35                2975   3200   3400   
40                3250   3500   3700   
45                3700   4000   4300   
50                4200   4500   4800   
55                4650   5000   5400   
60                5100   5500   5900   


MPH 3rd gear        2.925     3.15    3.37    
                                                       
                            RPM   RPM     RPM    
    35                    1950   2100   2250   
    40                    2300   2500   2700   
    45                    2700   2900   3100   
    50                    2900   3100   3300   
    55                    3250   3500   3700   
    60                    3600   3900   4200   
    65                    4000   4300   4600   
    70                    4200   4500   4800   
    75                    4550   4900   5200   
    80                    4900   5250   5600
    85                    5100   5500   5900   



MPH 4th gear        2.925    3.15    3.37    
                   
                          RPM    RPM    RPM
    50                  2300   2500   2700   
    55                  2600   2800   3000   
    60                  2800   3000   3200   
    65                  3100   3300   3500   
    70                  3200   3400   3600   
    75                  3600   3800   4000   
    80                  3700   4000   4300   
    85                  4000   4300   4600   
    90                  4300   4600   4900   
         



MPH 5th gear          2.92      3.15   3.37
   
                           RPM    RPM    RPM   
    45                   -----   1907   2042   
    50                   -----   2119   2268   
    55                   -----   2331   2495   
    60                   2360   2543   2722   
    65                   2560   2755   2949   
    70                   2750   2966   3176   
    75                   2950   3178   3403   
    80                   3150   3390   3630   
    85                   3350   3602   3857   
    90                   3550   3814   4084   


So thanks Spiderman, and FXR2 for throwing your thoughts into the discussion.....sometimes it takes seeing a larger picture for me to grasp what others may already know....this was a perfect example of that....

Spiderman.....as before I do appreciate your input and I feel your comments are quite valid....in regards that there is great value in creating more torque and power for a bike through the manipulation of the gears.....

Any other reflections or thoughts about this topic would be great to hear.....It sort of amazes me that when you look at our gearing and when you put the numbers (looking at how speed and rpms with the 2.925 gearing work together) to what these bikes have....and given the weight of the bike.....and also in determining how you wish to ride the bike....what types of enviornments highway, city, mountains.....etc that HD actually may have perfectly nailed this gearing for this particular bike.....does anyone have a differing view point????  If this is a true statement that most would agree on then the next logical view point would be to even further support that the 1999 FXR2 and FXR3 (like I said I haven't even viewed what the FXR4 has for gearing) are the best years for the FXR bikes.....given all of the ramifications of the bike as a whole....and you know what....that's pretty unusal...to have a "final" offering rise to the top...usually a model before that point is better....you certainly can't follow this logic given the twin cam products out there.....there is enough belief within the riding community that HD's best year for the twin cam thus far is 2002. which is a rather interesting reflection.....

Anyway.....

Hope this is discussion proves helpful to someone down the road.....

Regards,

FXR2evo99
« Last Edit: June 11, 2008, 02:06:57 PM by FXR2evo99 »
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SPIDERMAN

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Re: Would Changing Gearing Create Any "Fun" Torque Benefits For Our FXR's
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2008, 05:28:26 PM »

Can I simplify this a bit

As explained to me by a site member I look to for advice, the kit I suggested would change your engine speed to road speed by 19%.

B B
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RedFXR2

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Re: Would Changing Gearing Create Any "Fun" Torque Benefits For Our FXR's
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2008, 09:12:13 AM »

Now our FXR2's and FXR3's have 2.925 gearing....that's pretty tall already FXR2. 

I want to hear "potato-potato" at 65. ;D
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FXR2evo99

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Re: Would Changing Gearing Create Any "Fun" Torque Benefits For Our FXR's
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2008, 01:47:05 AM »

It's summertime, I want to hear potato salad, potato salad, potato salad....

Regards,

FXR2evo99
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