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[h2oski]

If your dealer did not open the engine how do they know it is a 95" instead of a mislabeled 88".  I have heard of a guy that got a 103 with a stock 88 flywheel in it and 103 pistons.  Compression was down siginificantly so it was easy to find in that case.   If they didn't open the cam cover and pull the heads there is now way to know if it is a 1550 with 203 cams in it.

[Twolanerider]

If your dealer did not open the engine how do they know it is a 95" instead of a mislabeled 88".  I have heard of a guy that got a 103 with a stock 88 flywheel in it and 103 pistons.  Compression was down siginificantly so it was easy to find in that case.   If they didn't open the cam cover and pull the heads there is now way to know if it is a 1550 with 203 cams in it.

I've been told of a similar instance.  Didn't see it myself.  But the source was someone I consider imminently reliable on such things and the story was retold by the local shop.  A guy named John Golden who travels the rally circuit as Rolling Thunder Dyno had a 103 in an 04 SEEG on his dyno shortly after the bikes came out.  The bike was way underpowered.  If memory serves John said it was reporting something like 58 hp.  

He suggested the bike had to be taken in to the dealership for some sort of warranty handling to see what was wrong.  After considerable "looking" the shop finally opened the engine and found the flywheel for an 88" along with a couple of other associated errors.  John has told of this incident on a few occasions I know of and the shop that did the work has spoken of it as well.  So it's a good bet it actually happened as told.  So just about anything can happen.  And they just can't tell what it is on the inside while only looking at the outside.

Have you had the new engine dyno'd just to have the document in hand to wave under someone's nose and say "hey, dipstick, it's only making 7 horsepower, my kid can pedal harder than that!"

[BLM777]

Absolutely right...2Lane...I know of 2 similar problems with 103's.  In particular 1 '04 and 1 '05.  Both of the incidents were relayed to me by HD shop owners who I have known for many years.  One was a mix up in flywheels and the other with flywheel and pistons.  Maybe they should quit "handbuilding" the engines in Yorktown.

[Twolanerider]

Maybe they should quit "handbuilding" the engines in Yorktown.

Actually I've always believed that's a larger issue than really gets much attnetion.  And I'm not speaking to just the engines.

On "the" assembly line robotics and sundry other monitoring systems are in place to check and double check.  But we know things still occasionally get through.  On the CVO line it's two guys or gals sitting on opposite side of the bike on rolling stools chasing a bike on a wooden cart down a hallway.  The same pair build the entire bike.  There's not a lot of supervision over the process.  It's got to breed more error.  "Hand built" sounds cool and certainly has a wonderful cachet when it rolls past your dentures.  But what it means in real life varies very much by the hands; and it does seem that many of our own experiences here very much sugguest that those hands can make several mistakes.

[HUBBARD]

Yeah, 'er 'uh, BLM777,
 Man, I must be Lucky!  Knock on wood, I have never experienced the multitude of problems the Members are having, which I have been made aware of on this Great Site, with any Harley I have ever owned.  Every failure I have experienced, has been by my own hand, or right wrist, if you want to get technical! [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]  I can't believe the MoCo's QC could be that weak, that many times, on the same failure.  I would be inclined to suspect one absent of comittment and loyalty, amongst the Union ranks!  As sophisticated as the MoCo's systems are, how could this blunder occur once, much less be repeated?  This is not acceptable.  I say the Traitor's throat be cut from ear to ear, and his tongue be torn out by its roots, and replaced by his amputated fingers, for this dastardly deed! [smiley=furious.gif] [smiley=mean.gif]  Somethin' just ain't right!  I feel for you guys!  Later--HUBBARD  

[spydglide]

Yeah, 'er 'uh, BLM777,
  Man, I must be Lucky!  Knock on wood, I have never experienced the multitude of problems the Members are having, which I have been made aware of on this Great Site, with any Harley I have ever owned.  Every failure I have experienced, has been by my own hand, or right wrist, if you want to get technical! [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]  I can't believe the MoCo's QC could be that weak, that many times, on the same failure.  I would be inclined to suspect one absent of comittment and loyalty, amongst the Union ranks!  As sophisticated as the MoCo's systems are, how could this blunder occur once, much less be repeated?  This is not acceptable.  I say the Traitor's throat be cut from ear to ear, and his tongue be torn out by its roots, and replaced by his amputated fingers, for this dastardly deed! [smiley=furious.gif] [smiley=mean.gif]  Somethin' just ain't right!  I feel for you guys!  Later--HUBBARD  

Me too, Hub!  I'm getting downright nervous just reading about all these problems.....Man, I don't know whether to go start looking for gremlins on my SEEG or what.   I've got a over-whelming sense of 'doom' hanging over me now.  What advice would you 'Rocket-Riders' give a ole scooter tramp that's coming un-glued just reading all this stuff?  And don't tell me to close one eye, twist the grip, and 'git 'er done!  Har!  spyder [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]

[yelladeuce]

new update, well i picked the bike since they said nothing could be done.  well what do you know on my first ride the rev limit went back to 6200. mind you now that it had been 5800 on this "new" motor and that the dealer said that 5800 was factory correct.  There is obviously something wrong. Also now there is a pulse feeling around 40-45 when just cruising and once warm it is very hard to start. I pulled the plugs and used a pen light and the pistons are 1550 stamped right on top. I really do not know if my warranty is void because cs said "i was racing" because she hung up on me. if i knew for sure i would take it to a competent mechanic and have the cams checked. but if it is not void that action would give them all the more reason to void the warranty. Even thought i was not racing... what if i was? Isnt my bike a screaming eagle deuce. And isnt screaming eagle the racing division of harley davidson. most of the parts on my bike are in the screaming eagle racing catalog and some, like my 203 cam, say for racing application only and bear the checked flag logo. HD give me a break! They are just looking for excuses not to fix my bike. I sure wish some one at HD who mattered could look at this forum and see some of the problems we face. They could see we are not the average riders but avid fans of HD motorcycles and to be mistreated by moco spoils the dream. We pay 40% more for our bikes to get a hand built, limited production, best of everything motorcycle but then get average, or in my case less than average, dealer support and no cvo support. No web site, No phone number not sh&*^%. Arrg!!! [smiley=mean.gif]

[grc]

I really do not know if my warranty is void because cs said "i was racing" because she hung up on me. if i knew for sure i would take it to a competent mechanic and have the cams checked. but if it is not void that action would give them all the more reason to void the warranty. Even thought i was not racing... what if i was? Isnt my bike a screaming eagle deuce. And isnt screaming eagle the racing division of harley davidson. most of the parts on my bike are in the screaming eagle racing catalog and some, like my 203 cam, say for racing application only and bear the checked flag logo. HD give me a break! They are just looking for excuses not to fix my bike. I sure wish some one at HD who mattered could look at this forum and see some of the problems we face. They could see we are not the average riders but avid fans of HD motorcycles and to be mistreated by moco spoils the dream. We pay 40% more for our bikes to get a hand built, limited production, best of everything motorcycle but then get average, or in my case less than average, dealer support and no cvo support. No web site, No phone number not sh&*^%. Arrg!!! [smiley=mean.gif]

They cannot arbitrarily void your warranty - that was the comment of an obviously incompetent yokel at H-D who must have been having a really bad day.  You have legal rights under Federal law with regards to warranties, and they cannot "void" your warranty without ironclad proof that something you did created the problem.  Unfortunately, it sounds like you may need to retain an attorney to get Harley and your dealer off their collective butts.

[TB]

Yella,

Are you still under the HD factory warranty or the extended warranty?  If you are into the extended warranty period, I would avoid the hassle with HD and work the issue thru the extended warranty (insurance) company.  Just a thought.

TB

[h2oski]

Actually I've always believed that's a larger issue than really gets much attnetion.  And I'm not speaking to just the engines.

On "the" assembly line robotics and sundry other monitoring systems are in place to check and double check.  But we know things still occasionally get through.  On the CVO line it's two guys or gals sitting on opposite side of the bike on rolling stools chasing a bike on a wooden cart down a hallway.  The same pair build the entire bike.  There's not a lot of supervision over the process.  It's got to breed more error.  "Hand built" sounds cool and certainly has a wonderful cachet when it rolls past your dentures.  But what it means in real life varies very much by the hands; and it does seem that many of our own experiences here very much sugguest that those hands can make several mistakes.

Actually all CVO engines are built on the same production line as stock engines.  They are all (excpet V-Rod) built at the Pilgrim Rd location in Milwaukee Wisconsin.

[Twolanerider]

Actually all CVO engines are built on the same production line as stock engines.  They are all (excpet V-Rod) built at the Pilgrim Rd location in Milwaukee Wisconsin.

Yes, sorry; didn't mean to imply that the engines were assembled at York with the bikes.  York assembles the bikes as described.  But not the engine.  It and the tranny come to them as sub-assemblies.

[grc]

Actually all CVO engines are built on the same production line as stock engines.  They are all (excpet V-Rod) built at the Pilgrim Rd location in Milwaukee Wisconsin.

I have some literature at home that implies that the engines are also "hand built".  I tend to believe that at least the unique parts are handled that way.