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Author Topic: Bar Stool Economics  (Read 3001 times)

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skreminegul07

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Bar Stool Economics
« on: November 25, 2008, 07:13:27 PM »

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. 'Since you are all such good customers, he said, 'I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for  free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?'

They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay. 
And so: 
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men
began to compare their savings. 
'I only got a dollar out of the $20', declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,' but he got $10!'
'Yeah, that's right', exclaimed the fifth man.
'I only saved a dollar, too.
It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!'
'That's true!!' shouted the seventh man.
'Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!'
'Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!'
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
 :drink: :drink: :drink: :drink:
by:
David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D. Professor of Economics,
University of Georgia


For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible!

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Talon

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Re: Bar Stool Economics
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2008, 09:11:35 AM »

 ::)
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Jock

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Re: Bar Stool Economics
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2008, 07:54:12 PM »

This is a good one...
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jwygo

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Re: Bar Stool Economics
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2008, 08:19:49 PM »

It's just a darn shame that 200mm eligible voters could start reading this, 50mm would make it thru the entire analysis, and only 20mm would understand your point. 
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Jock

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Re: Bar Stool Economics
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2008, 09:25:55 PM »

You should be informed that this person is not a myth...

Click HERE

You can find his statement on a number of sites...

While this does not make his position true it does make an interesting point of argument.

« Last Edit: November 29, 2008, 09:12:46 PM by Jock »
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Re: Bar Stool Economics
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2008, 12:50:50 PM »

Rubbish!

This is another rightwing bs example that correlates to Trickledown Economics.
The uber-rich when given tax breaks and incentives will upgrade their Yachts in good times and pad their personal accounts with the money in bad times, NONE of it will ever get to the bottom!
You will see that every company that gets a bailout will still cut jobs!

If they want to go overseas LET THEM GO!!!! I will buy tickets to get rid of them!!!
Debt ridden trust fund idiots that have run solid debt free companies into the ground after their parents die or leave the broad. They are the poorest stewards of the wealth that they have been blessed with.

Give me a 70-90 year old depression era middle management person as a CFO and I will outperform any Fortune 500 company even after their creative accounting.


BY Steven Palenko
Business Owner
Former Yacht Capitan (5 years for the uber-rich)
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skreminegul07

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Re: Bar Stool Economics
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2008, 01:31:06 PM »

Rubbish!

This is another rightwing bs example that correlates to Trickledown Economics.
The uber-rich when given tax breaks and incentives will upgrade their Yachts in good times and pad their personal accounts with the money in bad times, NONE of it will ever get to the bottom!
You will see that every company that gets a bailout will still cut jobs!

If they want to go overseas LET THEM GO!!!! I will buy tickets to get rid of them!!!
Debt ridden trust fund idiots that have run solid debt free companies into the ground after their parents die or leave the broad. They are the poorest stewards of the wealth that they have been blessed with.

Give me a 70-90 year old depression era middle management person as a CFO and I will outperform any Fortune 500 company even after their creative accounting.


BY Steven Palenko
Business Owner
Former Yacht Capitan (5 years for the uber-rich)


Upgrading their yachts is trickle down economics, they buy stuff and hire people to install them, maintain the boat club, and even someone to captain the boat.  Looks like good economics to me.
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Re: Bar Stool Economics
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2008, 01:40:03 PM »

Upgrading their yachts is trickle down economics, they buy stuff and hire people to install them, maintain the boat club, and even someone to captain the boat.  Looks like good economics to me.

Yes, yes, yes... that is an upgrade to you and me.. they go out and buy a bigger one.... it would make way too much sence to rehab one! LOL


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grc

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Re: Bar Stool Economics
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2008, 05:29:19 PM »

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Then, the bar owner gives them a $20 (20%) discount, so the new amounts are as follows:

First four men - zero
the fifth man - $.80
the sixth man - $2.40
the seventh man - $5.60
the eighth man - $9.60
the ninth man - $14.40
the tenth man - $47.20
TOTAL - $80.00


The original story is purposely misleading to make a point, but the reality is that everyone except the four guys drinking for free got a 20% discount (I guess you could even say the four got a 20% discount as well, since 80% of zero is still zero).

I suspect what we need to do to make those wealthy folks happy (lord knows that's my main goal in life) is to change to a flat tax.  Not a flat percentage, a flat dollar amount.  Of course, that means the first through ninth guy will be in prison since they could not pay their share of such a tax, and the country would be broke.

Jerry
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Re: Bar Stool Economics
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2008, 10:31:16 PM »

two words....FAIR TAX.    consumption tax is the only answer.
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Re: Bar Stool Economics
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2008, 10:49:34 AM »

Upgrading their yachts is trickle down economics, they buy stuff and hire people to install them, maintain the boat club, and even someone to captain the boat.  Looks like good economics to me.

You are forgetting all the people that it takes to build these Yachts.  It keeps the boat company in business and many people employed
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Re: Bar Stool Economics
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2008, 03:49:40 PM »

 :jack: :jack: :jack: :jack: :jack: :jack: :jack: :jack: :jack: :jack: :jack: :jack: :jack: :jack: :jack:

So, there's these three guys, and the first two walk in to a bar, but the third one saw it and ducked.....   
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Talon

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Re: Bar Stool Economics
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2008, 04:01:49 PM »

:jack: :jack: :jack: :jack: :jack: :jack: :jack: :jack: :jack: :jack: :jack: :jack: :jack: :jack: :jack:

So, there's these three guys, and the first two walk in to a bar, but the third one saw it and ducked.....   
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Jbbrown73

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Re: Bar Stool Economics
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2008, 04:06:01 PM »

two words....FAIR TAX.    consumption tax is the only answer.

Agreed!!!  Then you get the dope dealers, pimps, prostitutes, tax evaders, cash workers, illegal aliens, etc...... :soapbox:
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Re: Bar Stool Economics
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2008, 04:18:17 PM »

Here is one for you. The first four guys shouldn't be there, they should be at work! Who am I to say except a hard working tax payer. Thats the problem with our country, to many drinking for free. Not enough paying there own way.
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Re: Bar Stool Economics
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2008, 09:47:28 AM »

Thats the problem with our country, to many drinking for free. Not enough paying there own way.

I sure agree.  Way to many waiting on handouts....
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Re: Bar Stool Economics
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2008, 08:08:19 PM »

I sure agree.  Way to many waiting on handouts....

I agree, too many handouts to folks like AIG, CitiGroup, etc. while those who have been victimized by them and the other incompetents/crooks just continue to lose their jobs, homes, savings, etc.   

Jerry
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MontyB

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Re: Bar Stool Economics
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2008, 08:37:56 PM »

FYI the 'author'  did not write this and denies it on his personal website, accordingto snopes.com

Quote: "Contrary to Internet folklore, Dr. Kamerschen is NOT the author of "Tax Cuts: A Simple Lesson in Economics" or “Bar Stool Economics” or anything similar to that. Additionally, he does NOT know who wrote it and he has no opinion on its merits."

http://davidk.myweb.uga.edu/



The sooner that we all just learn to accept that rich guys always know what's best for all of us, the better off we'll be.  :(
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Re: Bar Stool Economics
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2008, 09:15:18 PM »

Well, expect this thread to get locked pretty soon...it's going down the crapper real quick.

   :devil:
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