Topic: Why take out the catalytic converter? (Read 7370 times)

PR3VS56 · « **on:** January 04, 2009, 02:19:58 PM »

Is it for sound? Pipe restriction?

Isn't a little back pressure good for bottom end torque? How restrictive are the cats, and anyone have before/after dyno numbers? THANKS!!

hogasm · « **Reply #1 on:** January 04, 2009, 04:38:06 PM »

Quote from: PR3VS56 on January 04, 2009, 02:19:58 PM

Is it for sound? Pipe restriction?

Isn't a little back pressure good for bottom end torque? How restrictive are the cats, and anyone have before/after dyno numbers? THANKS!!

Back pressure does help in low end torque...

Too much is bad.....

Too little is bad.....

until someone spends the money to dyno the changes made to their 09's and makes it public.....the answer is up in the air.

PR3VS56 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 04, 2009, 04:54:35 PM »

Is anyone concerned with future vehicle inspections? I'd hate to go to all the trouble of removing a cat for marginal improvement, then find myself spending big bucks to put it all back again.

hogasm · « **Reply #3 on:** January 04, 2009, 05:04:10 PM »

Quote from: PR3VS56 on January 04, 2009, 04:54:35 PM

Is anyone concerned with future vehicle inspections? I'd hate to go to all the trouble of removing a cat for marginal improvement, then find myself spending big bucks to put it all back again.

You guys in California have it tougher than most of us.

If you are concerned then go on Ebay and buy a set of 09 stock headers and just change them out at each inspection.

I know...I know....but if you want to play then you have to pay

jfh · « **Reply #4 on:** January 04, 2009, 05:34:26 PM »

Quote from: hogasm on January 04, 2009, 05:04:10 PM

You guys in California have it tougher than most of us.

If you are concerned then go on Ebay and buy a set of 09 stock headers and just change them out at each inspection.

I know...I know....but if you want to play then you have to pay

Still waiting for them to become available on eBay.

I know...I know...patience.

RickC · « **Reply #5 on:** January 04, 2009, 05:37:10 PM »

Quote from: hogasm on January 04, 2009, 05:04:10 PM

If you are concerned then go on Ebay and buy a set of 09 stock headers and just change them out at each inspection.

If you can find a set on Ebay... none as of late....

Fired00d · « **Reply #6 on:** January 04, 2009, 06:14:48 PM »

I would also contact some local dealers (service manager/service techs) and let them know you want a set of header pipes off an '09 96ci bike. As soon as the aftermarket catches up and has some complete exhaust systems for the '09's I bet they'll have all kinds of take offs that people don't take home.

Ride Safe,
Fired00d

PR3VS56 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 04, 2009, 07:19:29 PM »

Quote from: Fired00d on January 04, 2009, 06:14:48 PM

I would also contact some local dealers (service manager/service techs) and let them know you want a set of header pipes off an '09 96ci bike. As soon as the aftermarket catches up and has some complete exhaust systems for the '09's I bet they'll have all kinds of take offs that people don't take home.

Ride Safe,
Fired00d

Can the dealers change them out? I thought I heard something about that. Slip-ons yes, remove cat no.

Fired00d · « **Reply #8 on:** January 04, 2009, 07:21:41 PM »

Quote from: PR3VS56 on January 04, 2009, 07:19:29 PM

Can the dealers change them out? I thought I heard something about that. Slip-ons yes, remove cat no.

Some dealers will change out the entire exhaust system for aftermarket. When they do if they original owner doesn't request their stock exhaust back then they just end up on the dealers shelves or in the dumpster.

Ride Safe,
Fired00d

jfh · « **Reply #9 on:** January 04, 2009, 07:44:01 PM »

Quote from: PR3VS56 on January 04, 2009, 07:19:29 PM

Can the dealers change them out? I thought I heard something about that. Slip-ons yes, remove cat no.

The headpipes we are after are from non-CVO models and do not have cats, therefore no issue for dealer removal. (Except in CA)

Fired00d · « **Reply #10 on:** January 04, 2009, 07:47:28 PM »

Quote from: hdfr120 on January 04, 2009, 07:44:01 PM

The headpipes we are after are from non-CVO models and do not have cats, therefore no issue for dealer removal. (Except in CA)

I'd bet you find some dealers there doing them and if not at least some "Indy's".

Ride Safe,
Fired00d

Admiral · « **Reply #11 on:** January 04, 2009, 07:51:47 PM »

Quote from: PR3VS56 on January 04, 2009, 02:19:58 PM

Is it for sound? Pipe restriction?

Isn't a little back pressure good for bottom end torque? How restrictive are the cats, and anyone have before/after dyno numbers? THANKS!!

Because you can ...

RickC · « **Reply #12 on:** January 04, 2009, 07:51:56 PM »

Quote from: Fired00d on January 04, 2009, 07:47:28 PM

I'd bet you find some dealers there doing them and if not at least some "Indy's".

I think I'll check with the local dealers to see if they have any take-offs lying around...

HDDOCFL · « **Reply #13 on:** January 05, 2009, 08:11:19 AM »

Quote from: PR3VS56 on January 04, 2009, 07:19:29 PM

Can the dealers change them out? I thought I heard something about that. Slip-ons yes, remove cat no.

I have two dealers within 15 miles from me and each say if I remove the cats or add any tuner other than what they install they will void my warrinty, They also say I can put any slip on I want on the bike and it will not effect warrinty. I do business with both these dealers and I am stuck with just changing mufflers for now Steve cole has a Master Tune that will allow the removal of a tuneing so that the DT will not see it, I may go this route, but the cats for now will have to stay. Unless I want to go the dealers route with the SEST that only that dealer will honor under warrinty. I may also wait and see what Nightrider comes out with for the 09s like his XIEDs that just fatten up the bike under 4000 rpms . Doc

Highjagger · « **Reply #14 on:** January 05, 2009, 05:39:55 PM »

But definitely there won`t be any damage caused by removing the cats , the engine will run cooler that`s all , what the hell do they fear of by " promising " such silly things . Does that make sense .
My dealer gave me a full warranty-work , because oil was running out of the block , allthough he knew that i had a thundermax and stage one big sucker and opened the mufflers on myself , he knew that this all was not the reason of the oil-pissing-out .
The removed cats won`t cause a damage , never .
The world is strange sometimes .

RickC · « **Reply #15 on:** January 05, 2009, 06:54:37 PM »

Quote from: HDDOCFL on January 05, 2009, 08:11:19 AM

I have two dealers within 15 miles from me and each say if I remove the cats or add any tuner other than what they install they will void my warrinty, They also say I can put any slip on I want on the bike and it will not effect warrinty.

Doc,

Technically, the dealers are right. Anything done to the drivetrain outside the Harley dealer voids your warranty. Most good dealers, however, will take care of good customers and "turn a blind eye" to changes that don't -- or shouldn't -- have any effect on the problem area.

One approach: keep your stock parts and, if you have a problem, put them back on before you take the bike to the dealer. Of course, this is easier for some parts than others. Also, easier to do at home than when on the road.

Of course, if you have your local Harley dealer do motor work -- heads, pistons, exhaust, tb, etc. -- they may warranty it for a period ranging from 90 days up to a year. However, if you're 600 miles from home and have an engine failure, don't expect the nearest dealer to honor your home dealer's warranty on those parts.

At the end of the day, the dealer wants to get your money for the parts and the labor to install them. Using the loss of your warranty -- factory or extended -- is one of the tools they have to get you to have them do the work so they make more money.

Just my $0.02 worth. $:-\$

RickC

Hoist! · « **Reply #16 on:** January 05, 2009, 07:02:14 PM »

Quote from: RickC on January 05, 2009, 06:54:37 PM

Doc,

Technically, the dealers are right. Anything done to the drivetrain outside the Harley dealer voids your warranty. Most good dealers, however, will take care of good customers and "turn a blind eye" to changes that don't -- or shouldn't -- have any effect on the problem area.

One approach: keep your stock parts and, if you have a problem, put them back on before you take the bike to the dealer. Of course, this is easier for some parts than others. Also, easier to do at home than when on the road.

Of course, if you have your local Harley dealer do motor work -- heads, pistons, exhaust, tb, etc. -- they may warranty it for a period ranging from 90 days up to a year. However, if you're 600 miles from home and have an engine failure, don't expect the nearest dealer to honor your home dealer's warranty on those parts.

At the end of the day, the dealer wants to get your money for the parts and the labor to install them. Using the loss of your warranty -- factory or extended -- is one of the tools they have to get you to have them do the work so they make more money.

Just my $0.02 worth. $:-\$

RickC

This is what HD can and can't do about w.....ty, regardless of what ANY dealer tells ya!!! They'll make up the rules as they go if they can get away with it.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/adv/bus01.shtm

And it's not against the w.....ty to remove the Cat. It's against the LAW! But HD ain't the LAW!!!

Hoist!

Highjagger · « **Reply #17 on:** January 05, 2009, 07:22:33 PM »

Sometimes I really think about let the bike be stock ..........

just kidding Muhuhuhahaha

RickC · « **Reply #18 on:** January 05, 2009, 07:24:17 PM »

Quote from: Hoist! on January 05, 2009, 07:02:14 PM

And it's not against the w.....ty to remove the Cat. It's against the LAW! But HD ain't the LAW!!!

I stand corrected...

timo482 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 05, 2009, 07:38:01 PM »

the reason the warranty goes is because the epa says the warranty goes. dealers take on a LOT of risk working on non pollution compliant bikes. one thing is true - if a dealer does x or y and its not compliant and that dealer is in, say, wisconsin, and you have a problem in montana. its unlikely that the dealer in montana will warranty the work since its not legal work.

if you have the cash to just have it fixed - then who cares. but if you want hd to fix it, it has to stay legal.

to

PR3VS56 · « **Reply #20 on:** January 05, 2009, 08:31:18 PM »

Quote from: Hoist! on January 05, 2009, 07:02:14 PM

This is what HD can and can't do about w.....ty, regardless of what ANY dealer tells ya!!! They'll make up the rules as they go if they can get away with it.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/adv/bus01.shtm

And it's not against the w.....ty to remove the Cat. It's against the LAW! But HD ain't the LAW!!!

Hoist!

You may be correct (no doubt you are!!), but try enforcing it. I went through an issue a few years back -- ended up on the phone to reps in Milwaukee, etc., and never did get any coverage when I absolutely should have. You would not believe the runaround. You cannot force Harley to pay for work, unless you're an attorney yourself & you have nothing better to do with your billable hours.

grc · « **Reply #21 on:** January 05, 2009, 09:07:21 PM »

Need to understand that there are two different warranties involved. There is the regular POS 2 year warranty that supposedly covers everything. Then there is an Emission Systems Warranty that just covers the stuff that affects emissions. If you remove a cat or tamper in any way with the emission system (SERT/PCIII/ etc.) the emission system warranty is toast. However, that does not void the rest of your regular warranty. Read the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975. Sure, you may have to consult with an attorney to get the MoCo to comply with the law. That's true any time you deal with less than honorable companies or people.

BTW - Do you really think a dealer is going to pull your mufflers and look up your headpipe with a flashlight to make sure you didn't remove the cat? I'd be surprised if very many of them outside of California even know there is a cat. If you don't tell them, or ask them to do it for you, I wouldn't sweat it. If you're really worried about the warranty, then don't drill the cat out, just change headpipes to the non-cat version and save the originals. If the engine blows up, swap the pipes before you call the dealer to come haul it away.

Jerry

HARLEY-DAVIDSON EMISSION CONTROL SYSTEM WARRANTY

The following warranty applies to the emission control system and is in addition to the LIMITED WARRANTY, and NOISE CONTROL SYSTEM WARRANTY.
Harley-Davidson Motor Company warrants to the first owner and each subsequent owner that this vehicle is designed and built so as to conform at the time of sale with applicable regulations of the U.S. Federal Environmental Protection Agency at the time of manufacture and that it is free from defects in materials and workmanship which cause this motorcycle not to meet U.S. Environmental Protection Agency Standards within 5 years or 18,641 miles (30,000 kilometers) whichever occurs first.
The warranty period shall begin on the date the motorcycle is delivered to the first retail purchaser or, if the motorcycle is placed in service as a demonstrator or company vehicle prior to sale at retail, on the date it is first placed in service.

THE FOLLOWING ITEMS ARE NOT COVERED BY THE EMISSION CONTROL SYSTEM WARRANTY

1. Failures which arise as a result of misuse, alterations, accident or non-performance of maintenance as specified in the Owner’s Manual.

2. The replacement of parts (such as spark plugs, fuel and oil filters, etc.) used in required maintenance.

3. Loss of time, inconvenience, loss of motorcycle use or other consequential damages.

4. Any motorcycle on which the odometer mileage has been changed so that the mileage cannot be determined.

RECOMMENDATIONS FOR REQUIRED MAINTENANCE

IT IS RECOMMENDED THAT ANY EMISSION SYSTEM MAINTENANCE BE PERFORMED BY AN AUTHORIZED HARLEYDAVIDSON DEALER USING GENUINE HARLEY-DAVIDSON REPLACEMENT PARTS. THE MAINTENANCE, REPLACEMENT OR REPAIR OF THE EMISSION CONTROL SYSTEM MAY BE PERFORMED BY ANY OTHER QUALIFIED SERVICE OUTLET OR INDIVIDUAL. NON-GENUINE PARTS MAY BE USED ONLY IF SUCH PARTS ARE CERTIFIED TO COMPLY WITH U.S. ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY STANDARDS.

Harley-Davidson Motor Company, P.O. Box 653 Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53201, U.S.A.

HDDOCFL · « **Reply #22 on:** January 07, 2009, 02:43:15 PM »

With the dealers I deal with I think I will just change the cores and and leave it alone. There sert tuning is less than perfect. I would not mind doing something that can be installed and taken out without leaving foot prints for the dealer to find. I keep reading and learning and I see a few companys now starting to make tuning devices that can be taken out with no footprints, like to have one I could do this to on the road side, Like the 08 XIEDs. Thanks Doc

Author Topic: Why take out the catalytic converter? (Read 7370 times)

hogasm

hogasm