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[woode]

I'm up to 37 now - at 1000 miles - so getting better.  No changes in riding patterns or highway/city proportions - mainly commuting over the same roads every day.  So, maybe the "settling in" has begun.

Ed

[1abastarsmda]

So would a lean, stock CUSE get more range out of a tank than a scooter with an sert, cat removed and less restrictive muffs?  Or do those mods increase performance and cooling, and possibly longevity, while sacrificing range.  Any thoughts?

When you are running lean, that is saying that your air to fuel mixture is high, or in other words you have less fuel in the mixture and more air.  When you make the mods you mentioned, you will also be fixing the lean run by richening the mixture, or using more fuel in the mixture.  So, running it lean should get you more range out of a tank and richening the mixture will decrease your range, and along with the other changes made when it's tuned, increase your performance and lower your temperature.

If you've ever built a fire, you know that you can get those flames percolating better by adding some air (blowing on the hot ashes).  Leaving it run lean with more air in the mixture will keep your bike running hot.  I don't know if that's a good analogy or not, but I think it helps get the point across.

[Road Hog]

I ask the question about leanness because the bike from the factory is purposely inefficient due to EPA requirements.  I understand lean equates to more miles and heat but are there mods that would increase the bike's efficiency and increase both range and performance? 

Example, would I see a mileage improvement by removing the cat and adding free flowing muffs, no fuel/air changes?  Would I see cooling and maybe some minute performance improvements?

Hmmm?

[1abastarsmda]

I ask the question about leanness because the bike from the factory is purposely inefficient due to EPA requirements.  I understand lean equates to more miles and heat but are there mods that would increase the bike's efficiency and increase both range and performance? 

Example, would I see a mileage improvement by removing the cat and adding free flowing muffs, no fuel/air changes?  Would I see cooling and maybe some minute performance improvements?

Hmmm?

I'm hoping that someone with a little more technical expertise chimes in on this question.  I would think that you may cause a more lean condition and risk engine damage, but then, I don't really know the correct answer to that one.

[1abastarsmda]

Here's a good mileage test.  I just took my bike from Pittsburgh to Ft Lauderdale and back.  Total trip 2596.1 miles and the mileage calculation was completed to the last fillup at 2463.8 miles.  Gallons used were 59.877 gallons.  Mileage for the trip was 41.15 mpg.  I was not expecting anything near this figure.

I have an 09 SEUC with D&D 2 into 1 exhaust, Zipper MaxFlo air cleaner, HD Super Tuner, Dyno tuned.  No other mods.  I was not riding the throttle easy at all.  Cruising speed was normally around 80 mph with speeds in excess of 100 mph at least 20 times, and I couldn't even guess how many times over 90 mph.  I did hit a top speed of 110 mph at one point, and it seemed like I still had much more left on the table.  It was running very smoothly at that speed and around 3500 rpm's.  I did set the bike on cruise control several times on the way back, at around 75 mph, but I have trouble resisting that crack of the throttle on the open highways, so even while on cruise control, I made lots of bursts to 90 and 100 mph.  I was really expecting to see a mileage figure more like 34 to 36 mpg, so I was pretty impressed when I calculated this.

As far as filling the bike, I found that once the pump shuts off initially, I could still get another 20 to 30 quick on-off squirts of gas to top it off with the bike on the jiffy stand...probably lots more room with the bike upright.  I was getting from 200 to 210 miles per tank before filling up when I was riding alone, and usually showed mileage remaining of 35 to 45 miles on the tank when I filled up.  On the way down, when I was riding with some others, I was filling up at odd intervals due to when the others needed to stop, and one guy had a 2 gallon tank on a Sportster, which meant stopping for gas every 80 miles, or me filling up on every second gas stop.

Anyway, that's about as much info that I think I could possibly explain about the mileage.  This bike really loves speeds of 80 mph and up. The only complaint I have is that the bike is pretty much uncontrollable with heavy crosswinds.  I happened to hit some major wind issues on the trip heading south and had to pull off the road at one point and ride down the berm of the road for a few miles in 1st gear, as I almost got blown into the side of a few semi's through one wide open stretch.  The wind was so bad that when I was at the big Daytona Harley dealer in Ormond Beach, FL, it took me a while to park my bike.  I finally found a spot to park behind a truck to partially block the wind and even then I had to aim the front of the bike directly into the wind.  If I parked it with the wind hitting the bike from the side, I'm sure it would have blown over.  That's quite the dealer they have there.  As you will see in the photo, I was about the first customer for the day, and when I left, they were pulling the bikes in from outside for the night.  I was back and forth between Harley and JP Cycles the entire day.

In case anyone is wondering, the truck with the bike in the bed were there to be raffled off.  Nice truck!

[eddfive]

Any bike from the factory does not have the VE tables calibrated.  A lot of people will not believe me but the stock calibration is not optimized for your exact bike.  There are a lot of variables in a bike motor build.  The obvious ones are the fuel injectors from bike to bike are not matched and the feul pumps are not matched.  This can lead to as much as a +/-10% swing in fuel delivery between the exact same bikes.  This is why the stock download in these bikes are not optimized..

Even if you have the bike set at 14.6 and closed loop and the VE's are not calibrated you may not be getting the correct fuel.  The 2-wire O2 sensors on the bike work in a very narrow range of AFR to try and control fuel delivery.  My data has shown that they will work in the 7%,10%,15% and maybe the 20% and 25% TPS columns.  Maybe down to 3500 rpm or 3750 rpm.  The reason for this is the load or MAP pressure applied during the twisiting of the throttle.  As soon as you go to a high enough MAP value the bike goes to open loop and this is where it is imperative that the VE tables be calibrated.  This happens everytime you accelerate from stop, merge on to the highway, pass a car, race your buddy to the next watering hole etc. etc.

Yes, the bike runs but it needs to be optimized for both performance and fuel delivery.  There are a number of ways to accomplish the calibration, my choice is on a dyno as it is faster and will cover the entire range of the AFR/MAP table.  During a Dyno tune it is imperative that each cylinder is individually mapped for both fuel and ignition.  Support tables need to be optimized for the tune.

The above scenario is for a factory delivered bike.  Add free flowing exhaust, free flowing air cleaner, removing CATS all allows the engine to breath better or allows more air through the motor.  If the stock bike above is not optimized and you change air flow through the motor then the new changes are even farther from optimization.  The bike needs to be calibrated/tuned for performance and efficiency.  It does not really matter how you accomplish the calibration it needs to be done.  I am partial to Dyno tuning but I own a dyno and tune.

[Road Hog]

Now, the last two posts have some great info, thanks.  I would like to have bid on the truck.  Nice.

Guess I need to dyno my ride but two questions.  What is "VE" and what is the most compatible tuner for this beast?

[eddfive]

VE is Volumetric Efficiency.  Here is a definition from the SERT Help Files:
VE - Volumetric Efficiency

Volumetric efficiency is a percentage rating of how much air is flowing through the engine while running as compared to its theoretical capacity. 

For example, an engine with a displacement of 88-cubic inches running at 5600 rpm at full throttle has a theoretical airflow capacity of 100% when it flows about 143-cubic feet of air per minute, (cfm).  If the same engine flows 107cfm at 5600 rpm it would have a VE of about 75%. 

If the engine flows about 157cfm at 5600 rpm it would have a VE of about 110%.  Note the VE can exceed 100%, especially in high performance engines that have improved airflow through the engine.  VE reacts to engine speed and to anything that increases or decreases airflow through the engine.

There are a lot of tuning devices on the market.  I prefer the tuning devices that tune the Delphi ECM that is already on the bike.  Your choices here are MasterTune, Direct Link and Screamin Eagle Pro Super Tuner.  They all do a good job of tuning the bike.

[Diamondback]

My 09 has a non catalytic header pipe, Rinehart slip ons, Stage I K&N and PC V with autotune. 

I've been getting 41 to 42 with two up.  Runs great.

And it's cooler.

 

[harleyguynv]

My 09 has a non catalytic header pipe, Rinehart slip ons, Stage I K&N and PC V with autotune. 

I've been getting 41 to 42 with two up.  Runs great.

And it's cooler.

 

What air fuel mixture are you running in the various cells, ie. throttle position and rpm? That is pretty good mileage.

[rheiner]

36 MPG, 2 up, total miles on bike 350.

1.75 Fullsac's, no cat, SERG A/C, TTS map from Fullsac.

Rides like a champ, Steve's map is working out great!

Just curious if you've looked at Steve's TTS map he gave you. Maybe you have a different one than I got in Jan. 2009, but the only settings that were modified from the original file were the VE tables at 100% (WOT), the PE table was modified to run slightly leaner, and AE took away a slight amount of gas that gets injected when opening up the throttle. It certainly wasn't a complete tune map, apparently only a WOT tune. His map that I got uses a B1 file and TTS recommends using the new C2 files that came out in March 2009 for the touring models so I started over and did a v-tune using the C2 extension in the file (UJ205-002-C2.MT7) for my SEUC4. The bike runs great.

Randall 

[GtreetSlide]

Not a SE bike, but my 09 street glide with 103, 255 cams, fullsac cores, and TTS is getting about 40 mpg tooling around the hills and never getting in 6th gear.. it gets over 50 on the freeway in 6th... that's loaded down and with a tourpak...

jimbob

[1abastarsmda]

I rode 203 miles on my last tank today, and it shows 79 miles left until empty.  I know that's beating my average a few weeks ago of 41.15 mpg to Florida and back, as I normally had 30 to 40 mile range left at the 200 mile point.  My mileage is getting better or my riding style has slowed down.  It looks like those numbers would indicate something in the 42+ miles per gallon range today.  Actually, I couldn't go all that fast today.  We hit some roads with twisties to compare with the best of them ...pretty much non-stop curves for a few hundred miles today in PA, WV, and OH.  That was a tiring ride in this heat. 

[Smuuth]

I have 530 miles on my SERG in the 12 days I have had it.  On the two complete fills where I calculated mileage, I got 41.3 and 42.9 mpg respectively.

[tennisman]

Mine is an 08 SEUC, RTDs with quiet baffles, Stage I AC, SERT, and dynoed.  Typical 150-200 mile trips of mostly hiway, mostly 5th gear operation yields 40-42 mpg.  I did install the taller windshield to stop buffeting that probably hurts drag and mileage.
Satisfied, but it blows me away that my other bike, 125" Kaw, gets 50 mpg under the same conditions!
T-man