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[HDJamsTX]

If you are running the Rinehart Exhaust, SE Stage one Aircleaner, and SE Race tuner on a otherwise stock 103.

1. Which baffle are you using 2.0 or 2.25 or the 2.5?

2.  Are both your TQ & HP in the triple digets?

3.  Would you buy Rineharts again if you needed a new System now?

[Fired00d]

HDJamsTX,
I'm using what you are asking, and below I've answered your questions according to the way you have numbered them.

1. Stock bafflers (not sure what the diameter is, I do know that I didn't pay extra for the high performance ones)

2. My TQ is 92.7 and HP is 91.5 (starting TQ 87.1, HP 82.6) BTW this is about what Matt Gross of HDMaps is stating what this setup will get (when I was considering purchasing one of his maps he gave me ballpark figures of 93-98HP/93-98TQ. You can see I came close to those numbers).  Also remember that numbers are all relative, unless you have the different bikes with same setup testing on same dyno at same time don't be alarmed or confused when some numbers are higher or lower then what you get, also no two engines are identical. Bike (motor) temperature, altitude, ambient temperature, same dyno, (I would even go as far to say lubricants the same, etc, etc) will be a true test for comparison purposes IMHO.

3. Yes I would, so far I'm totally happy with dyno number, seat of the pants performance, and sound.

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[hd-dude]

Many of us here are using the Freedom package which consists of a modified Reinhart exhaust, Stage 1, and the PCIII. I think that most of us here have numbers is the triple digits with this setup. Mine were 103hp and 104 tq. I'm not sure what baffles they come with but I can say that if I had to do it over again I would definatelly run this setup. It sounds great, looks great and performs great. Can't ask for anything more.... [smiley=cherry.gif]

[CVOJOE]

1. Which baffle are you using 2.0 or 2.25 or the 2.5?
Performance (2.5" ) baffles. They really move the gases and sound is about right for my tastes. Works great as car vibration alarm tester as well.
 
2.  Are both your TQ & HP in the triple digits? Yes, EFI race tuner kit dyno  @105HP & 108 FT LBS earlier this month.
 
3.  Would you buy Rineharts again if you needed a new System now?
Yes. Like the sound and looks of the true duals over the 2-into-1. But, it's also a personal preference thing looks wise. Screamin Eagles (Kirker OEM) or V&H would be my other choices.
 

[delnel]

What does the freedom package consist of, what kinds of mods do the pipes have? [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

[hd-dude]

What does the freedom package consist of, what kinds of mods do the pipes have? [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

The pipes have a different bend radius from the head and the front pipe drops down a little lower than the Reinharts. They come with Chrome end caps with Freedom Cycle engraved in them. Give Brad or Rick at Freedom a call, he will explain all about them to you. His number is 775-848-8600. I am not affiliated with them, just a very happy customer!

[hd-dude]

1. Which baffle are you using 2.0 or 2.25 or the 2.5?
Performance (2.5" ) baffles. They really move the gases and sound is about right for my tastes. Works great as car vibration alarm tester as well.
 
2.  Are both your TQ & HP in the triple digits? Yes, EFI race tuner kit dyno  @105HP & 108 FT LBS earlier this month.
 
3.  Would you buy Rineharts again if you needed a new System now?
Yes. Like the sound and looks of the true duals over the 2-into-1. But, it's also a personal preference thing looks wise. Screamin Eagles (Kirker OEM) or V&H would be my other choices.
 

Those are great numbers CVO. Who did your tuning? Could you post you dyno sheet?

[jeffj]

I am with hd-dude on this one

My last 2) FLHRSEI & FLHRSEI2 bikes I went with Rinehardts and SERT and I liked it
Now on new FLHTCUSE bike I went with Freedom Exhaust and I Love it
I am a firm believer that both the Rinehardt and Freedom Exhausts are Great
The really big difference in my humble opinion is THE TUNER and Brad at Freedom Cycles "Can Get Her Done"

Great sound and power

[Willie D]

[highlight]would definatelly run this setup. It sounds great, looks great and performs great. Can't ask for anything more....  [/highlight]

Hey Dude,
Do you know if they have a setup for the 2006 FLTRI yet ?  [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

WD

[hd-dude]

[highlight]would definatelly run this setup. It sounds great, looks great and performs great. Can't ask for anything more....  [/highlight]

Hey Dude,
Do you know if they have a setup for the 2006 FLTRI yet ?  [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

WD

Yes they do, when we were in Reno during Street Vibes we spoke to Brad about the 06 88" bikes. My brother has a 06 injected glide and will be ordering his setup this week from brad. Here is a link to  a dyno sheet showing there package on a 88":

http://flhrsei.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1127967547

[HDJamsTX]

Looking thru all these past posts it seems like more Rineharts are having breaking issues than the Freedom even tho there basically the same pipe. Do the Freedoms mount in different locations?

[Willie D]

Thanx Dude,
I may have to give them a call. I was going to have my local dealer do a 95" gear drive conversion @ $2,100 +/-, but this looks like a little less expensive way to go.
 Can you still hear the radio with this system? [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
I really don't want to wake the whole neighborhood when I leave at 0600 in morning for Brkfst.... [smiley=nervous.gif]

[CVOJOE]

Dude,
I had mine done at Cycle Center of Fremont (H-D dealership). They've really turned their service dept. around the past 6-8 months, and will be expanding their service bays and floorspace early 2006. Tried to attache the files but their too large for this site. Send me a PM with your email address and I'll send them to you in .pdf or JPEG.

Joe

[hd-dude]

Looking thru all these past posts it seems like more Rineharts are having breaking issues than the Freedom even tho there basically the same pipe. Do the Freedoms mount in different locations?

These mount the same, I've had em break as well. Brad modifies the bracket with an added piece of steel to strenthen it. Have not had a problem since. Another suggestion is to not tighten them to the starter mount bracket, just finger tight with red loctite.

[hd-dude]

Thanx Dude,
I may have to give them a call. I was going to have my local dealer do a 95" gear drive conversion @ $2,100 +/-, but this looks like a little less expensive way to go.
 Can you still hear the radio with this system? [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
I really don't want to wake the whole neighborhood when I leave at 0600 in morning for Brkfst.... [smiley=nervous.gif]

The pipes are lound when your on them but at idle there not too bad. I can still hear the stereo just fine, even with a full face helmet

[Laker]

I have the Rineharts, Stage 1, and SERT. Dyno said 97HP and 100TQ. Very happy with numbers, sound and look.

[hd-dude]

Dude,
I had mine done at Cycle Center of Fremont (H-D dealership). They've really turned their service dept. around the past 6-8 months, and will be expanding their service bays and floorspace early 2006. Tried to attache the files but their too large for this site. Send me a PM with your email address and I'll send them to you in .pdf or JPEG.

Joe

Posting the Dyno Sheet for CVOJoe

[CVOJOE]

Thanks Jim,
They do things a bit differently there in that they graph cyl 1 & 2 separately and there is a difference between the two numbers, but nothing significant.
SERT is the way to go, just wish they'd get the price down on the kit so that more would be willing to get it.  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

[HDJamsTX]

Would someone using the Rineharts do me a favor and look at your bike and tell me if the Exhaust Mount that bolts to the bottom of the transmission is chrome or is it just plain steel? Thanks...

[spydglide]

HDJamsTX, it's NOT chrome, and I actually went out and double-checked.  Har!  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]spyder

[Unbalanced]

CVOJoe,

To get a better comparison you should ask them to print out the dyno sheet in SAE or STD Form.   Obviously SAE will be the lowest, but to give you a comparision to a completely uncorrected really gives you no baseline since it will depend a lot on the day / the temp / the humidity, the altitude etc etc.

[SPIDERMAN]

 I just picked up on this thread today so 'scuse me coming in on this late.Here we go again with Dyno numbers. I am asking myself, how it is that I've owned two 03 SERKs and with both of them I had SAE corrected Dyno numbers of 95/96 ftlbs and 91/92 hp. Seems everywhere I look on this CVO website people are claiming triple digit numbers. What gives ?  I tried changing cams on my first SERK and it was a disaster. The factory says you can't change cams on a factory 103 without head mods basically stating that the SE 103 motor is a hipbone connected to the thigh bone configuration. The guy I spoke to at the MoCo told me you're better off starting with an 88" motor if you want a monster 103. That way you can go with the CNC heads, big cams etc.  What are those of you claiming triple digit numbers running ? Also has anyone done a 113" upgrade yet?  

[hd-dude]

I just picked up on this thread today so 'scuse me coming in on this late.Here we go again with Dyno numbers. I am asking myself, how it is that I've owned two 03 SERKs and with both of them I had SAE corrected Dyno numbers of 95/96 ftlbs and 91/92 hp. Seems everywhere I look on this CVO website people are claiming triple digit numbers. What gives ?  I tried changing cams on my first SERK and it was a disaster. The factory says you can't change cams on a factory 103 without head mods basically stating that the SE 103 motor is a hipbone connected to the thigh bone configuration. The guy I spoke to at the MoCo told me you're better off starting with an 88" motor if you want a monster 103. That way you can go with the CNC heads, big cams etc.  What are those of you claiming triple digit numbers running ? Also has anyone done a 113" upgrade yet?  

Check out the Dyno #'s thread, There's 30 pages of info on mods and configs. Yes most are getting numbers at or above the 100's with just pipes/AC/ and a PC or race tuner.

[JCZ]

I just picked up on this thread today so 'scuse me coming in on this late.Here we go again with Dyno numbers. I am asking myself, how it is that I've owned two 03 SERKs and with both of them I had SAE corrected Dyno numbers of 95/96 ftlbs and 91/92 hp. Seems everywhere I look on this CVO website people are claiming triple digit numbers. What gives ?  I tried changing cams on my first SERK and it was a disaster. The factory says you can't change cams on a factory 103 without head mods basically stating that the SE 103 motor is a hipbone connected to the thigh bone configuration. The guy I spoke to at the MoCo told me you're better off starting with an 88" motor if you want a monster 103. That way you can go with the CNC heads, big cams etc.  What are those of you claiming triple digit numbers running ? Also has anyone done a 113" upgrade yet?  

I'm going to suggest that you look for a "performance" tuner to dial your bike in.  If you have the Race Tuner then look for a tuner that has a lot of experince with the Race Tuner........if your'e using the Power Commander III then find a tuner that has a lot of experience in that area......but find a real "tuner" not somebody who is going to throw your bike up there and load a canned map in there and say that he dyno tuned it..........that's not dyno tuning.

[MYCVO]

Jumping in on this myself, Seeing as Freedom cycle seems to be a rightous spot for a tuner,and thats a little bit out of my way to go. Does anyone have a clue around east coast area who does a good dyno tune ??

[SPIDERMAN]

JCZ  Thanks for the advice on finding another tuner and I agree with what you're saying but I spoke to Carl Morrow from Carl's Speed Shop on this subject once and he basically told me dyno tuning is in large part a factor of what you're tuning the bike to do. Race tuning does not lend itself to realiability and longevity in a motor. I'll stick with where I am for now.The motor is solid and pulls strong from just above idle all the way to about 6200.  On another front however, I have been thinking of the new 113 set-up. Do you know anything about what's involved?  Looking at what's available from the MoCo, it seems you need new heads and obviously cams as well as the jugs and pistons. What about the new 50mm EFI unit ? Also, with bumped up compression do you need high tensile studs, stronger rocker arm supports, big roller lifters ? And here's something I know will start a debate; are roller rockers necessary ? Are they really worth the cost?

[Unbalanced]

[highlight] I have been thinking of the new 113 set-up. Do you know anything about what's involved?  Looking at what's available from the MoCo, it seems you need new heads and obviously cams as well as the jugs and pistons. What about the new 50mm EFI unit ? Also, with bumped up compression do you need high tensile studs, stronger rocker arm supports, big roller lifters ? And here's something I know will start a debate; are roller rockers necessary ? Are they really worth the cost? [highlight][/highlight]

Spyder,

You must have the cases milled to accept these larger juggs, you should look at an aftermarket throttle body like Zippers or Horsepower inc 50, 51 mm throttle bodies as these have cruisecontrol on them the HD does not.

With the larger pistons/juggs you will want roller rockers, new lifters.   I would look into a schim for the oil pump and possibly changing to a high flow oil pump like fueling.   I have not heard you "The recommendation for new heads come froms the fact that on the CVO bikes we have Hemi shapped heads and not dome shaped"   The pistons in the kit are for dome shaped.   YOu could have your stock heads welded up and redone if you wanted stock effect.

The juggs are currently back ordered last time i was at harley.   If your having to have the cases milled you might as well also do the timken bearing.

Is it worth it .... Depends on where your at if your at 94/98 and you want more like 120/120 - 130 / 130 depending on how radical you want to get.   Although one knows they can get to 118/115 for the cost of heads / cam  / tuning using stock cast piston.   Have to decide how much you want to spend and is this much enough or do you need more and do you want to pay for more and possibly give up reliability.    

Hope this helps Spyder

[SPIDERMAN]

Thanks Unbalanced.   All that adds up to well over 5k with labor and machine work and you know milling out the spigots has never thrilled me. I went with a set of Sputh cases back in 93 to build a 96" EVO rather than bore out the stockers. (remember the days when no one was selling complete motors) OK, so rather than go through all that, Do you know how much the Jim's 120 CI race engine listed in the Screamin Eagle catalogue is going for ? I can change out a motor myself, I just don't build em.

[Unbalanced]

Spider,

Are you after a fuel injected motor or a carb'd motor setup.   You realize the Jims that Harley sells is for Carb only.

I think Harley gets like 6200 for their Jim's 120.   I believe if you shop you can find it around 5500 or less.   Let me know what your after via an email at unbalanced@bellsouth.net and I will point you at some people to talk to for a motor.

-harry

[HUBBARD]

JCZ  Thanks for the advice on finding another tuner and I agree with what you're saying but I spoke to Carl Morrow from Carl's Speed Shop on this subject once and he basically told me dyno tuning is in large part a factor of what you're tuning the bike to do. Race tuning does not lend itself to realiability and longevity in a motor. I'll stick with where I am for now.The motor is solid and pulls strong from just above idle all the way to about 6200.  On another front however, I have been thinking of the new 113 set-up. Do you know anything about what's involved?  Looking at what's available from the MoCo, it seems you need new heads and obviously cams as well as the jugs and pistons. What about the new 50mm EFI unit ? Also, with bumped up compression do you need high tensile studs, stronger rocker arm supports, big roller lifters ? And here's something I know will start a debate; [highlight]are roller rockers necessary ? [/highlight]Are they really worth the cost?

Yeah, 'er 'uh, SPIDERMAN,
  Roller Rockers are a waste of money, unless the cam, or cams, have at least .600" lift.  Roller Rockers bring a little more noise to the party, too.  Later--HUBBARD  

[SPIDERMAN]

Couple things here 1st off JCZ the Jim's motor IS available in either Carb or EFI ready config - - check the specs in the new SE catalogue. I'm asking you guys about this motor because my dealer doesn't seem very high on it - - - you know I'm gettin the " well if you really want one we'll sell you one" answer to my questions.   2nd, Hubbard I've always thought roller rockers were a waste of money too since the travel of the valve stem on the rocker arm is so minimal as to be negligible but the MoCo has always pushed em in the set-up sheets below the dyno sheets in the SE catalogue. That's way I figured it would start an argument like when you step and promote one carb over another. Ain't enough beer to argue that one out. Nice thing about EFI, other than throttle body size, no one seems to argue one over another that much.

[HUBBARD]

Yeah, 'er 'uh, Spiderman,
  Don't think that was JCZ that said the JIMS was available with carb. only.  At any rate, The JIMS 120" ain't a ball o' fire. [smiley=disappointed.gif]  I busted one of 'em so bad, I felt sorry for the guy!  I, personally, don't think you can beat Zipper's for "BIG MOTOR" components and performance.  They've got a 107" that will bust a JIMS 120"!  If you want the most bang for your buck, go with Zipper's.  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] There endeth the lesson.  Later--HUBBARD    

[Unbalanced]

Spider,

I stand corrected the new one is for both EFI and Carb sorry for the misinformation.  I just checked in the new SE Catalog.  Previously it was only offered as a carb.

Also realize the throttle body they want to sell you from Harley has no cruise if you want cruise you will have to look at Zippers or Horsepower inc or Kuryiakin (sp).

The motor is supposed to be 125 tq/ 121 hp out of the box at the rear wheel.   My opinion would be can you afford a Zippers motor if you wanted to.  If you could then you cant beat the out of the box performance.  If you cant then the money difference between the Jim's and Zippers I would spend some of it and buy the headwork to upgrade the engine and probably look at a more aggressive cam like the Zippers 657.

-harry

[JCZ]

Couple things here 1st off JCZ the Jim's motor IS available in either Carb or EFI ready config - - check the specs in the new SE catalogue.  

Great, just what I was thinking! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]  S&S has a 124" motor that will bolt in (the one in their catalog turns 129.2HP and 137TQ however, that is carberated).  They also have it fuel injected and I happen to have a friend that just dumped one in his Screamin Eagle Road Glide..  Go to this link then click on page #6.  You can increase the size of the page to read the dyno sheet.

http://www.sscycle.com/catalog17/TwinCam/html/TwinCam.htm

[SPIDERMAN]

JCZ Sorry about the confusion on who said what. I am looking at the H-D Jim's motor for a number of reasons.I know a lot of you are likely to jump all over this, but H-D doesn't market products that don't meet at least minimum reliability standards. I'm thinking the Jim's motor won't come undone in the middle of a coast to coast run on me. I want more but I want it with some peace of mind. Nothing ruins a 3 week trip like a busted motor. And, if H-D is selling the Jim's motor and it does happen to STB then at least the nearest H-D dealer should have parts and some help to get me back on the road. OK so now all of you can jump all over me and fire off blurbs about 150 hp S&S motors that run forever without breaking down and 175 ftlb Zipper's motors that are so solid Santa replaced old Dasher and Dancer with em . I'm outa here. PS Hubbard, I hear if you sing it cures a stutter

[spydglide]

 :oyou mean: Mel Tillis?  [smiley=nixweiss.gif]  spyder

[JCZ]

JCZ Sorry about the confusion on who said what. I am looking at the H-D Jim's motor for a number of reasons.I know a lot of you are likely to jump all over this, but H-D doesn't market products that don't meet at least minimum reliability standards. I'm thinking the Jim's motor won't come undone in the middle of a coast to coast run on me. I want more but I want it with some peace of mind. Nothing ruins a 3 week trip like a busted motor. And, if H-D is selling the Jim's motor and it does happen to STB then at least the nearest H-D dealer should have parts and some help to get me back on the road. OK so now all of you can jump all over me and fire off blurbs about 150 hp S&S motors that run forever without breaking down and 175 ftlb Zipper's motors that are so solid Santa replaced old Dasher and Dancer with em . I'm outa here. PS Hubbard, I hear if you sing it cures a stutter

Spiderman you seem a little defensive.  I don't think everybody is going to jump all over you.  Some people have different opnions and they're just speakin em.  Persoanally, I understand your thinking and at least in theory, makes a lot of sense to me.  Don't know if I'd go so far as as to agree that "HD doesn't market products that don't meet at least minimum reliability standards".......what about the valve guide seals in the 04's and what about the new style bearings vs. the timkin style bearings.  Anyway.........again, just a matter of opnion.  If you're after a Jims motor, by all means, go for it!  Keep us posted on it and your thoughts  and opnions, I'd like to know about it.

[BLM777]

JCZ . And, if H-D is selling the Jim's motor and it does happen to STB then at least the nearest H-D dealer should have parts and some help to get me back on the road.  

Don't count on it Spider....I don't know of any HD parts department that has any intention of stocking Jim's parts.

[grc]

H-D doesn't market products that don't meet at least minimum reliability standards.

spyder,

In no way am I busting your chops - this is JMHO.

I'm betting that is why the engine only produces 1hp per cubic inch, which is nothing nowdays.  If Jims were to sell it direct, without Harley involvement, I've got to believe the output would be higher.  Just as with their regular engines, H-D goes conservative.  Two reasons I can think of:  1.- Fewer warranty issues,   2.- Opportunity to get more of your money when you decide that 1hp per inch isn't enough.

BTW - check out the warranty that some of the aftermarket folks offer on engines.  I've seen more than one that offers at least 2 years, which is more than you can get through H-D.  If you stick with one of the majors, I don't see reliability being any more of a problem than using H-D stuff.

Jerry

[SPIDERMAN]

JCZ In just two months of being on the site I've gotten a lot of good info, but often the talk turns to aftermarket products.This thread started on Rineharts which I like, run on my bikes and tell my friends to if they don't have em already. So, aftermarket is good thing in my mind except where motors are concerned. S&S, Zippers, TP, Patrick Racing and many others produce big inch, powerful  motors. Jim's is the only aftermarket manufacturer H-D chose to have a relationship with.Why? I believe because as was noted that the Jim's motor in a 1hp to 1" config is reliable.My dealer doesn't seem interested in promoting the Jim's motor. I am trying to find out if anyone know's why that might be before I pop for the $$ to buy one. I'm not looking to find out about who makes the biggest baddest motor I could buy to drop in my SERK. I live in SoCal man, that's a no brainer - - - pull out your wallet and 1000 shops between Dago and La La Land want your business. So I'm cool with the chatter, but was trying to avoid the dicussion gettin round to aftermarket motors.Guy who lives down the street from me has got an 01 SERG that smokes the tires goin down the road with just a twist of the throttle in 3rd, 4th and 5th: BUT he's in the shop more than on the road. nuff said

[HUBBARD]

JCZ Sorry about the confusion on who said what. I am looking at the H-D Jim's motor for a number of reasons.I know a lot of you are likely to jump all over this, but H-D doesn't market products that don't meet at least minimum reliability standards. I'm thinking the Jim's motor won't come undone in the middle of a coast to coast run on me. I want more but I want it with some peace of mind. Nothing ruins a 3 week trip like a busted motor. And, if H-D is selling the Jim's motor and it does happen to STB then at least the nearest H-D dealer should have parts and some help to get me back on the road. OK so now all of you can jump all over me and fire off blurbs about 150 hp S&S motors that run forever without breaking down and 175 ftlb Zipper's motors that are so solid Santa replaced old Dasher and Dancer with em . I'm outa here. PS Hubbard, I hear if you sing it cures a stutter

Yeah 'er 'uh, Spiderman,
  The only time I'll stutter is if I'm trying to sell a Truck to a Trucker that stutters!  [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] The JIMS motor must be assembled.  Why doesn't the MoCo assemble it?  I'm not implying it's an inferior product.  Hell, everybody knows JIMS flywheels have been in Harleys for years.  My comments were referring to the performance, compared to Zipper's, and quite frankly, there is [highlight]NO[/highlight] comparison.  As far as reliability goes, that would depend upon the Engine Builder.  IMO, Don Tilley and Neal Taylor are the Best, and closest, to me.  They completed my Zipper's 120" Motor in Feb. of '04, and I have flat out abused that motor.  Have shown it NO MERCY! [smiley=devil.gif]  Have had 0 problems.  If for some reason I had to take off and ride to the West Coast and back, I would not worry about that Engine comin' apart. 8-)  Hate to dissapoint ya', but the Stealers ain't got no JIMS 120 parts.  But again, with the right Engine Builder, you won't need parts.  Good luck with your project!  Later--HUBBARD        
        

[HUBBARD]

Yeah, 'er 'uh, All Members,
  And I don't want any of you wise a$$es saying, " Hell yeah, it'll run to the West Coast and back. It can't break down in the FEATHERLITE!"   [smiley=trailer.gif]  [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] Later--HUBBARD

[spydglide]

Hey Hub........you're getting pretty quick in your old age.  You saw that one coming before we could fire it off.  Har!  [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] spyder

[Twolanerider]

Hey Hub........you're getting pretty quick in your old age.  

Damn Spyder, that's getting pretty fracking personal  [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]

[spydglide]

Damn Spyder, that's getting pretty fracking personal  [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]

Hey 2Lane, when you're my age and refer to someone as old , they just laugh.........they know it's a joke.   Har!  spyder [smiley=drink.gif]

[SPIDERMAN]

"If for some reason I had to take off and ride to the West Coast and back, I would not worry about that Engine comin' apart."   Hubbard,nice to see you tap dance as well as sing  

[Twolanerider]

Hey 2Lane, when you're my age and refer to someone as old , they just laugh.........they know it's a joke.   Har!  spyder [smiley=drink.gif]

Spyder, I don't care how many years of experience a guy might have accumulated.  Anyone with the cajones to ride around in a pink helmet ain't gotta explain anything to me!  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

[Twolanerider]

Hubbard,nice to see you tap dance as well as sing  

Oh god, there's an image I'll never be able to get out of my head  

[SPIDERMAN]

PS Hubbard - - with all the little Romper Room stuff attached to your threads, I figured you for a Kindergarten Teacher, not a Truckin sellin salesman  Or do you sell Motorcycle Haulers? Seems like you're tryin to sell somebody something here.

Oops I did it now, here come the Elites and the Full CVO's or (cringe and shake) maybe even a Global Moderator to defend old Hubbard and straighten up the Newbie- - - - -Bad Newbie, Bad Newbie

[Twolanerider]

Oops I did it now, here come the Elites and the Full CVO's or (cringe and shake) maybe even a Global Moderator to defend old Hubbard and straighten up the Newbie- - - - -Bad Newbie, Bad Newbie

That's it.  You're in time-out for five posts.

[SPIDERMAN]

twolane   I needed a laugh and you just gave it to me   and if you're really serious and this doesn't get posted, I'm gonna laugh myself into a fit  

[HUBBARD]

PS Hubbard - - with all the little Romper Room stuff attached to your threads, I figured you for a Kindergarten Teacher, not a Truckin sellin salesman  Or do you sell Motorcycle Haulers? Seems like you're tryin to sell somebody something here.

Oops I did it now, here come the Elites and the Full CVO's or (cringe and shake) maybe even a Global Moderator to defend old Hubbard and straighten up the Newbie- - - - -Bad Newbie, Bad Newbie

Damn, did I give you that impression?  I apologize. Unfortunately,you have read me wrong, through your obvious inability, to not only make a decision on how much motor you want, or don't want, but also in being able to tell people how to go to hell, and make them like it.  It's an art.  I have it.  For a fee, I will teach you this life lesson.  I bet you would be one of my best Kindergarten students.  PS--Don't worry too much about Ol' Hubbard needin' someone to defend him.  He ain't no rookie.  [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] Later--HUBBARD  

[HUBBARD]

twolane   I needed a laugh and you just gave it to me   and if you're really serious and this doesn't get posted, I'm gonna laugh myself into a fit  

Yeah, 'er 'uh, Twolane,
   [smiley=oops.gif]Ut-oh!  [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif] [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif] [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif] Later--HUBBARD

[JCZ]

Hey 2Lane, when you're my age and refer to someone as old , they just laugh.........they know it's a joke.   Har!  spyder [smiley=drink.gif]

Yea......besides that Twolane......some of us ain't in denial! [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]Cause we all know that shoe fits you, too! [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif] [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif] [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]

[SPIDERMAN]

You win Hubbard, I can't blow wind that hard no way no how