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[Eqcons]

<Sorry for the long post guys - a boring Sunday here!>

Well, winter is here, both my bikes are off the road, and I'm getting down to planning my FLHTCUSE for when it arrives next April or thereabouts.  One of the first things I want to do - make that THE first thing - is to "pay the Harley Tax"/"do the Stage one", call it what you want. Now it seems to me there are a few problems with that on the 06 bikes - Harley aren't producing any maps, and the 05 ones are no good, what with the bigger throttle body, etc.

First, a dumb question - which has a big bearing on the rest of this post! The Dyno charts I see here differ from the ones we get here - are those figures at the rear wheel, or are they at the engine? (Charts here typically have three lines - at the engine, transmission, and wheel - for an example, see my Sporty's chart at http://www.eqc.co.uk/sporty )

So I've been reading all the stuff on here, as one does :-)  and now I'm REALLY confused!  You guys all seem to work very hard (and spend big bucks!) to achieve nothing much more than (and in some cases less than!) about 100/100.  That's a little disappointing to me - and here's why. The reason I MUST have an FLHTCUSE is because my friend bought an SE² last year - as soon as he let me ride it, I just KNEW that I had to have one. But I have to have all the Ultra stuff - the wife and I tour a lot, so we couldn't do without the headset radio, CB, Intercom, etc.  Plus the SE² is way too low for the narrow twisty roads here - it grounds on every corner.  But now the FLHTCUSE is here, so all the problems solved.  Now this bike of my friends was treated to nothing more than the bolt on standard stuff - SE slipon mufflers, SE Air cleaner, and HD's own map.  No dyno tuning, no 2-into-1, no true duals specially modified, no SERT, no PC3, or any of the fancy stuff you all do - just an hours work of the off-the shelf stuff.  Now a (non-HD but good!) local dealer had an open day, with free Dyno runs last month, so we took my friends SE² - result?  103hp/101tq.  Nice -very- flat curves. Of course, this is the engine figure, not the wheel, hence my question! So, if US charts are at the engine, how come his bike has that without all the $$$$ and effort everyone else goes to?    (And if US charts are at the wheel, I know why the $$$ and work!)

His bike sounds great too - the sound I'd like mine to have, the sort of noise that "feels" good as well as "hears" good.

I don't want excessive loud - as I say, the wife and I tour a lot, and too much noise is a pain, always tripping the vox, and making your ears ring at the end of the journey, drowning the talk and music - but I do want a good noise.  

So, for my FLHTCUSE, when it comes, my friend's setup would be ideal - right power, right noise, right look.  But of course, it won't work, because of the 2006 differences!  

What do I do then?  Opinions on here differ a lot, which is what leaves me confused. And I don't want to spend lots of $$$ and work to end up with no more HP than my friends bike got for half the money and effort!  And bear in mind I can't - from the UK - get access to a lot of the stuff you guys get!

PC3 or SERT?  Is one better than the other?  Why? Got to do one or the other, since there are no HD maps.  The PC3 is easier and cheaper for me to get. But if the SERT is better, that doesn't matter - a SERT it must be!

Can I fit normal SE Slipon mufflers?  (I'm thinking, is there a map from anybody, and does removing the new-for-'06 Catalytic converter cause a problem...)  I like the noise, and they cost a whole lot less than the Freedom Cycles setup, which - again if your dyno figures are engine, not wheel - seems to give at worst less power and at best, no more! I get the impression that the Freedom/Rinehart pipes are loud too, and too loud as I say, I don't want!

What do you say, then, expert gents?  Forgetting all the tricky stuff that costs extra bucks and time, IF it doesn't give better HP/Tq - what should I do, given what I want to achieve?

[Ed Ramberger - One_Screamin_Eagle]

Hello,

Hope this info helps you a bit.  
1)  US charts typically show rear wheel #'s.  
2)  The Harley Owner's manual #'s are at the crank, and the Screamin' Eagle catalog #'s are at the rear wheel
3)  You are using the DIN correction factor.  To get it all as close as possible, SAE would be the preferred with a smoothing factor of 3
4)  Up to 2005, the factory built 103's did typically yield 90 hp and 100 tq with the Harley slip ons and the 103" Stage 1 RACE re-flash. Be very careful not to install a 1450 Stage 1 - I have seen this over and over - people hear Stage 1 and assume it's all the same.
5)  Anyone can cheat a dyno and get 5 more hp.  Bike should have been warmed up to temp, then let sit for a few minutes while temps equalize throughout drivetrain, then run at temp.  Tire pressure, temp, location of the Dyno Stack, weight on the bike, correction factor will all change results.
6)  Dyno runs from different dyno's ARE different to some degree.  The dyno should be used as a before and after tool - meaning you run a baseline, make a change and see the result NOT run around town with a dyno sheet that reads 4 hp lower than someone elses and go back to the shop screaming because the dyno across town made more power so they must be better tuners.

[Twolanerider]

EQ,

All the dyno runs you see posted here are at the rear wheel.  Because that's the part of the bike in contact with the dyno.  Your free ride in dyno day was the same (unless they pulled the engine from the bike and hooked it up to a dyno all by itself).  

An engine dynamometer (as opposed to a chassis dyno) is a whole different machine.  And engine dyno hooks to the engine.  It will also always give you larger numbers than will a chassis dyno (running the same motor in the vehicle) because the engine dyno is not measuring all the forms of mechanical and other loss that is parasitically taken away between the crankshaft and the rear wheel.  The engine dyno never "sees" all that loss.  The chassis dyno does.

The numbers you report from your dyno run are very good if from a chassis dyno and coming from an otherwise unmolested bike.  Sometime when convenience allows try the bike again on a different too.  If the bike just feels great in the seat of your pants that's always the happiest measure.  But dynos can vary and do get out of calibrations.  And while I'm certain (facetious mode=on) that no dyno operator on a free ride in day would tweak his machine to record a few points higher just to make the crowd happy; that's possible too.

[Eqcons]

Thanks both - excellent replies!  

I'm very familiar with dynos, both engine dynos and rolling road ones - I've been tuning and building for over 35 years!   The difference is that on a rolling road type here in the UK, all the charts show the three lines.  And of course since the crank figure is higher, that's what people talk about!  

So now I'm a happier guy since I know that the 100/100 type figure is rear wheel, that justifies the extra expense, so I'm left with just the couple of questions about what I should go for:

PC3 or Sert?  Which is better (if one is!) and why?
And the Rineharts (I'm thinking Freedom Cycles here) - just how noisy are they?  How do the compare to the SE mufflers?

I guess going that way, it appears from the posts here that  it can all go on the 06 models, there is a map, (at least for the PC3) , and losing the Cats makes no difference.....

Thanks again guys!

Jim