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[jimp]

This should really help their borrowing power. Also I question the amount of bad loans and REPO's on HDFS balance sheet, marked to make believe.

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Standard & Poor's Ratings Services said Monday it downgraded Harley-Davidson Inc. /quotes/comstock/13*!hog/quotes/nls/hog (HOG 21.80, +0.04, +0.18%) because of lower-than-expected sales declines. S&P lowered Harley-Davidson's corporate credit rating to BBB from BBB+. The outlook is stable.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/sp-downgrades-harley-davidson-on-sales-slide-2009-07-27?siteid=yhoof2

[spydglide]

It would be nice to think that executive compensation would actually be tied to real performance, but as we've all seen over the past decade or two it appears that just the opposite is true.  Play games that inflate the numbers the bonuses are based on, at the long term expense of the company and the stockholders,  and walk away with hundreds of millions while the company tanks and the stockholders are left with pennies on the dollar.  It's such a common theme that I have to wonder if they aren't teaching this as part of the curriculum at the infamous Harvard Business School.  You know, the home of "Greed is Good".

The sad part is that public companies have boards of directors that are supposed to control this sort of thing.  Unfortunately, with no effective regulations most of these boards have become nothing more than incestuous enablers for the crooks.  Look at who makes up the boards, and you will find a lot of folks who are on the gravy train at their own company.  We have lots of folks looking out for the big guys, and no one looking out for the stockholders, the customers,  and the long term viability of the company. 

Jerry

It is sad, Jerry.  And I keep getting sucked into investing my $$$ as I want to be part of this great free market system with the end result of all hope dashed.  spyder

[Ghost Rider]

Stopped into Calgary Harley Davisdon today and they still have several new 2008's sitting on the showroom floor.     

Really, several 2008's.  Wow, how many 2009's do they have?   

[Hoist!]

Really, several 2008's.  Wow, how many 2009's do they have?   

They got '08's layin around here too Travis! Some still have '07's! These stubborn dealers around here would rather hold out for their $$$ before dropping their prices! Their $$$, their floorplan, their inventory! I guess they're savin em for museums! FTD!!!

Hoist!

[Ghost Rider]

They got '08's layin around here too Travis! Some still have '07's! These stubborn dealers around here would rather hold out for their $$$ before dropping their prices! Their $$$, their floorplan, their inventory! I guess they're savin em for museums! FTD!!!

Hoist!

I don't get it.  Why would they rather pay the overhead (taxes, storage, etc) instead of moving the inventory.  These dealers can not have that low a business acumen, could they?   

[smkymtnboy]

   just sayin!!  as a young man walked into my first Harley dealership. Gosh was it cold in that place. Still remeber really really well. Son if you want one of these machines pay your 1000.00 dollar deposit and get in line. Color you will take whatever color comes in you can,t pick. Try one! we got guys waiting just to see one. this may not be something you want to consider. He was right 13 years later here we are. I now have two at what one costs. Don,t know who said but it is true. what comes around goes around. Maybe in the heyday dealers could have been a little more humble. I do love the machines and hope some folks are learning from their mistakes. I hope to buy another HD. somebodys gonna build bikes and someone is going to sell them I sure hope they say Harley Davidson on them.

[grc]

Well, here's the latest flyer from my local dealership.  Now they list discounts on the Touring models as well, and even on the 2009 CVO's.  Wasn't sure I'd ever see that, but I'm glad to see at least some dealers have finally gotten a clue that sticking to MSRP or above isn't a brilliant idea in the current market. 

Jerry

[skreminegul07]

Well, here's the latest flyer from my local dealership.  Now they list discounts on the Touring models as well, and even on the 2009 CVO's.  Wasn't sure I'd ever see that, but I'm glad to see at least some dealers have finally gotten a clue that sticking to MSRP or above isn't a brilliant idea in the current market. 

Jerry

Gerry,
My daughter is a Harley salesperson.  We have these discussions all the time.  I showed her an ad like that.  It is against HD policy to advertise below MSRP, which they are not actually doing in that ad. Some dealers will give gift cards to lower the price also.  I do remember that back in the MSRP +++ days, dealers would install all the acessories you wanted for free.

[spydglide]

Gerry,
My daughter is a Harley salesperson.  We have these discussions all the time.  I showed her an ad like that.  It is against HD policy to advertise below MSRP, which they are not actually doing in that ad. Some dealers will give gift cards to lower the price also.  I do remember that back in the MSRP +++ days, dealers would install all the acessories you wanted for free.

Good Lord, which dealers?  This crowd would bankrupt 'em.  har!  spyder

[Fired00d]

Good Lord, which dealers?  This crowd would bankrupt 'em.  har!  spyder

 

Now would we do that??

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[SBB]

Well, here's the latest flyer from my local dealership.  Now they list discounts on the Touring models as well, and even on the 2009 CVO's.  Wasn't sure I'd ever see that, but I'm glad to see at least some dealers have finally gotten a clue that sticking to MSRP or above isn't a brilliant idea in the current market. 

Jerry

GUYS

Read between his lines.
Jerry is looking at new bikes.
WhooHoo, get em Jerry!


SBB

 

[Fired00d]

GUYS

Read between his lines.
Jerry is looking at new bikes.
WhooHoo, get em Jerry!


SBB

 

That's one bet I'm not taking.... no way, no how. Especially something new from the MoCo.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[grc]

GUYS

Read between his lines.
Jerry is looking at new bikes.
WhooHoo, get em Jerry!


SBB

 

Sorry Chip, no new bike for me.  Still waiting for H-D to get serious about quality and customer service, or for BMW to locate a dealer one heck of a lot closer to where I live.   Besides, after paying for momma's new car she just ordered, I don't think I can afford a new bike.  Don't forget, I'm retired and living on a fixed income these days.  Guess I'll just have to keep fixin' up the SEEG.

Jerry

[Hog Head]

UPDATE - Harley not dead...Heading in right direction...
 

[chicagobulldog]

If only stock price were a reflection of company health. We all know stock price and the status the company many times have nothing to do with each other. Heck GM stock rallied after it filed bankruptcy! I still say HD has very troubled waters ahead. Think about it, the RV business got hammered, the boating business is in bankruptcy, Honda is moving their motorcyle manufacturing back to Japan......