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[HUBBARD]

Hub, when we were racing sleds we would see pistons like these. Running a hot day with a leaned out engine was big power till the end. The tops of the pistons would turn this same color when they were hot enough to start melting the aluminum. Unfortunately in a 2 stroke with only one ring and revs up at 9000 they didn't live. Burn off the residue with a drill and a wire brush and see if the aluminum is pitted or not. If it's not it's residue from fuel. If there are pitts in the top of the pistons, they were very hot at one time and about to burn through. The heads (in the bowl) will show heat distortion as well some times.

Yeah, 'er 'uh, BadAss2,
  You're right.  I hope that's not the case with mine, as I have always avoided slow moving traffic as best I could, and policed my AFR consistently, as to not run too lean.  The Heads looked good.  Torque plates haven't arrived, as of today.  Christmas has the freight guys behind, I'd say.  We'll Git-R-Done!  Later--HUBBARD    
  

[HUBBARD]

And HD says there is no problem with the tensioners.  Go figure must be the same guy that checks chrome and paint.

Yeah, 'er 'uh, mr_magoo,
  I have no quams with the MoCo on this one.  I have abused that Motor.  This one's on me!  [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] Later--HUBBARD  

[Unbalanced]

Dawg,

It will be interesting to see if the MOCO implements the new chain system and oil pump currently in the 06 dyna's to all TC motors next year.  While its not proven yet I will conceed that, but it is technically and equal answer to the gear drive solution.   I will see if I can dig up the information or a link.  

It would seem that the MOCO finally woke up, they have a new and improved oil pump as well to go with this set up in the dyna (scavenges well too I hear)....  Something else I heard was it resembles the fueling oil pump   I can't confirm if that is who made this one as well.   Anyone with more please share.

-harry

[reo]

Dawg,

It will be interesting to see if the MOCO implements the new chain system and oil pump currently in the 06 dyna's to all TC motors next year.  While its not proven yet I will conceed that, but it is technically and equal answer to the gear drive solution.   I will see if I can dig up the information or a link.  

It would seem that the MOCO finally woke up, they have a new and improved oil pump as well to go with this set up in the dyna (scavenges well too I hear)....  Something else I heard was it resembles the fueling oil pump   I can't confirm if that is who made this one as well.   Anyone with more please share.

-harry

Here's a pdf hyperlink to the 06 technical forum, you can find the Dyna engine changes on starting on page 32
http://royogren.com/Harley/06model-year.pdf

[Unbalanced]

Thanks Reo for posting it.   I guess time will tell what the MOCO does next with these changes.

[DavidB]

Here is the box of junk I got left over from doing a geardrive system on a friends bike. The shoes had 20,000 miles on them but looked almost new. This motor was ridden very consertively by a girl. Like Hubbard said , I believe most of the wear issues come into play when these bikes ar ridden hard and a lot of friction heat builds up between the shoes and the chain. That plastic can only stand so much heat and the higher lift cams just make it worse at high speed.
Dave

[HUBBARD]

Here is the box of junk I got left over from doing a geardrive system on a friends bike. The shoes had 20,000 miles on them but looked almost new. This motor was ridden very consertively by a girl. Like Hubbard said , I believe most of the wear issues come into play when these bikes ar ridden hard and a lot of friction heat builds up between the shoes and the chain. That plastic can only stand so much heat and the higher lift cams just make it worse at high speed.
Dave

DavidB,
  What were the cams you replaced, and what did you install?  Please advise.  Later--HUBBARD

[grc]

Dawg,

It will be interesting to see if the MOCO implements the new chain system and oil pump currently in the 06 dyna's to all TC motors next year.  While its not proven yet I will conceed that, but it is technically and equal answer to the gear drive solution.   I will see if I can dig up the information or a link.  

It would seem that the MOCO finally woke up, they have a new and improved oil pump as well to go with this set up in the dyna (scavenges well too I hear)....  Something else I heard was it resembles the fueling oil pump   I can't confirm if that is who made this one as well.   Anyone with more please share.

-harry

Here's a pdf hyperlink to the 06 technical forum, you can find the Dyna engine changes on starting on page 32
http://royogren.com/Harley/06model-year.pdf

That link doesn't seem to want to work for me, so I'll post the relevant pages below.  IMHO, just changing from a spring tensioner to a hydraulic tensioner isn't necessarily the answer to the tensioner issue.  I noticed that they changed the type of chain also, which may be the more important change???

Jerry

[grc]

2nd attachment:

[DavidB]

DavidB,
  What were the cams you replaced, and what did you install?  Please advise.  Later--HUBBARD

These are stock cams out of an 02 bike. Were leaving it 88ci and replaceing the cams with Andrews G21 geardriven cams. Should give the bike plenty of low end torque.

[Dave]

Just my two cents on the changes to the 06 Dyna:  

Plain bearings in cam support plate: Certainly a cost savings here but it almost looks like you will have to replace the support plate to change bearings. What is the life expectancy of a plain bearing?

Upgraded oil pump: Well its not a feuling unless Feuling has gone from precision machining to castings.

Integrated oil filter housing:  Well the 88B has had this from inception but again, its a cost savings as now they won't have two seperate castings, eliminates 3 bolts and locking tabs, a few o rings and the assembly time for the whole thing.  Just don't damage that oil filter mating surface or you will have to buy half an engine case.

To me these changes and the others like an automatic primary chain adjuster (which incidently also elimanates the chain inspection cover saving more money) are just ways of building a product for less money.  By the way, today its the chain inspection cover but soon the derby cover will be gone as well and you will just pull the primary cover as an assembly to do any work.  You will just have a drain plug and a fill plug before long.  Do you supose when the derby cover is gone they will offer whole outer primary covers with your favorite design cast where the derby cover was or perhaps just a double sided tape stick on derby like the trim ring on the air cleaner housing.

Lets not forget the one piece fuel injection assembly.  This should help keep the injection system tamper proof and the EPA happy.

If the Dyna is any indicator of changes to come to the entire big twin line (and remember the Dyna was used to introduce us to the twin cam engine) then I am glad I have an 03 FLHRSEI2 where I can still open a few covers and adjust a few things, press new bearings in under those gear driven cams etc.  When I don't want to do that anymore I'll buy a Gold Wing or BMW K1200LTE but keep the Road King so I can remember how Harleys were once built.

Just my two cents....

[spydglide]

Resonates with me, Dave.   [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]  spyder

[Boatman]

I agree with you Dave.  Whether it be a scoot, car, or truck; when a mechanical change is made, it is normally not to make it better but it was cheaper to do it that way.

[grc]

Just my two cents on the changes to the 06 Dyna:  

Plain bearings in cam support plate: Certainly a cost savings here but it almost looks like you will have to replace the support plate to change bearings. [highlight]What is the life expectancy of a plain bearing?[/highlight]

Dave,

Without high pressure oil to prevent contact with the cam journal, the life is measured in seconds.  If the new Dyna is like all other Harley's, and the oil pressure drops to nearly zilch at hot idle, I wouldn't expect those new bearings to last very long.  One hell of a lot cheaper than rollers, though.

I haven't had any first hand experience with the new Dyna engines yet, but from just what I've seen and read so far I'm not so sure I want any.  Another change that makes me cringe is the new primary drive system with the outboard sprockets at the crank and the clutch.  With the cheaper single straight roller bearing on the drive end of the crank instead of the old double tapered Timkens, folks have already had bearing failures on bikes with the normal primary drive.  Now they move the load further outboard from the bearing.  They already have a service program to change out the bearing at the trans end at 15k miles; will we see another one to change out cranks and bearings at 20k???

Harley does need to modernize some of their designs and methods, but some of the changes I've seen in the past few years leave me baffled and scratching my head in amazement.  I somehow get the feeling that either the accounting department has overthrown the engineering organization, or the engineering group forgot to hire any real engineers.  

Jerry  

[spydglide]

 They already have a service program to change out the bearing at the trans end at 15k milesJerry  

Huh??   [smiley=nixweiss.gif] [smiley=nervous.gif] [smiley=confused5.gif] spyder