Topic: Cold Idle Problems with the FLHTCUSE (Read 11092 times)

Yukla95 · « **on:** January 10, 2006, 11:17:51 PM »

I am wondering if anyone is having the same problem I am. I saw a few references to it in an old thread about "Engine Knock" (I hope that problem is resolved now). When my bike has been sitting in the cold for a while it will not stay running until it warms up. It chokes and spits and throws white smoke out the right side unless you hold the throttle up to around 1500 rpm until warm. The dealership first flashed the ECM and that didn't work then the MoCo suggested it might be a Idle Air Control Stepper motor, replaced and still having problem. Now there is another one in the shop for the same thing and the MoCo has authorized the shop to download a stage 1 flash into the ECM. Will have to wait and see. When it is warm, there is no problem whatsoever.
Ever hear of this on others? What was the final resolution if you have had this?
Thanks for the help and this great site!

Yukla (Alaskan for Eagle)

jvall · « **Reply #1 on:** January 11, 2006, 07:58:31 AM »

I have the same problem. Bike still at dealer since Dec 14th. Waiting for racing re-cal
part #34304-06 to be released from MOCO. Had them install Rineharts & stage one a/c.
They said that once they install the re-cal, my idle problems will go away.
I called the MOCO yesterday & was told the re-cal is back-ordered until Jan 25th. This is the
third time they have changed the delivery date.

Boatman · « **Reply #2 on:** January 11, 2006, 08:14:34 AM »

I hope you fellows get the issue resolved. I think they are running too lean. That's why you bought an EFI bike so you could start and drive off and not fiddle with a choke.

spydglide · « **Reply #3 on:** January 11, 2006, 08:26:14 AM »

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I hope you fellows get the issue resolved.

GC_Super · « **Reply #4 on:** January 11, 2006, 08:27:08 AM »

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I have the same problem. Bike still at dealer since Dec 14th. Waiting for racing re-cal
part #34304-06 to be released from MOCO. Had them install Rineharts & stage one a/c.
They said that once they install the re-cal, my idle problems will go away.
I called the MOCO yesterday & was told the re-cal is back-ordered until Jan 25th. This is the
third time they have changed the delivery date.

jvall, not sure what part of the country you're in, but unless you're snowed in, that's a long time to wait for a download. Seems like it would be better to go with a SERT and load the map they now have for your set up. Of course, it you're unable to ride due to weather, no biggie to wait.

jvall · « **Reply #5 on:** January 11, 2006, 09:33:54 AM »

GC_SUPER, the only positive is that it is winter. Can you give me the map number so I can
relay it to my lack of knowledge dealer.

GC_Super · « **Reply #6 on:** January 11, 2006, 11:12:44 AM »

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GC_SUPER, the only positive is that it is winter. Can you give me the map number so I can

jvall · « **Reply #7 on:** January 11, 2006, 12:26:37 PM »

Many Thanks, Jim

Yukla95 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 11, 2006, 01:23:42 PM »

Wow, thanks for the responses...I have been told that they are going to do the same thing but was told that the cartridges are in stock at the MoCo and will be shipped to the dealership this week. Mine has been in three times already and I am giving it back this Friday and letting them keep it for a week while I am on a business trip (to Hawaii!...I know I shouldn't have said that).
I was also told that the reason they want to do the "Cartridges" is because they just "flash" the ECM and get a return authorization from the MoCo who doesn't want the SERTs returned after they have been matched up with a VIN. Cheers [smiley=drink.gif]

grc · « **Reply #9 on:** January 11, 2006, 02:10:36 PM »

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Wow, thanks for the responses...I have been told that they are going to do the same thing but was told that the cartridges are in stock at the MoCo and will be shipped to the dealership this week. Mine has been in three times already and I am giving it back this Friday and letting them keep it for a week while I am on a business trip (to Hawaii!...I know I shouldn't have said that).
[highlight]I was also told that the reason they want to do the "Cartridges" is because they just "flash" the ECM and get a return authorization from the MoCo who doesn't want the SERTs returned after they have been matched up with a VIN. [/highlight]

FR8TRN · « **Reply #10 on:** January 11, 2006, 02:20:39 PM »

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Wow, thanks for the responses...I have been told that they are going to do the same thing but was told that the cartridges are in stock at the MoCo and will be shipped to the dealership this week. Mine has been in three times already and I am giving it back this Friday and letting them keep it for a week while I am on a business trip (to Hawaii!...I know I shouldn't have said that).
I was also told that the reason they want to do the "Cartridges" is because they just "flash" the ECM and get a return authorization from the MoCo who doesn't want the SERTs returned after they have been matched up with a VIN.

ultrafxr · « **Reply #11 on:** January 11, 2006, 02:30:54 PM »

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I'm confused.

Yukla95 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 11, 2006, 06:03:33 PM »

My dealership is telling me the same as UltraFXR except he still contends that it will be in on tomorrow. FR8TRN...I do not have the SE Breather on the new bike, was waiting to get the thing running right. I like the SERT on the 02 SERK and may go to that when I decide what I am going to do with pipes and the breather.
I will be very interested in seeing how this works because the shop is going to do the same load with a bone stock bike (mine) and one that has slip ons, and SE Breather, and a Vance and Hines Tuner...don't make a lot of sense that a flash would fix the other bike.
I think there may be something more to this problem.

Cheers,
Yukla

2up · « **Reply #13 on:** January 12, 2006, 05:22:59 PM »

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Got this from another post, but here it is:

Calibratiion # 36

Yukla95 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 12, 2006, 06:01:21 PM »

Jvall...I got the word today, Jan 25th is the shipping date for the cartridges. Not sure when they will hit the shop.

2Up...yes, it is a flash for the current ECM and it DOES require a cartridge. We are being told that the MoCo will NOT release this version except this way. Not sure why but we think it has something to do with fixing a production vehicle with a non-EPA flash. I have no idea at this point, I do know that the better get something together and fix this problem ASAP.

Cheers all, [smiley=drink.gif]

Yukla

jdracing · « **Reply #15 on:** January 12, 2006, 06:01:25 PM »

2up, not to add to the confusion here, but Yukla and GC are talking about two different things--concerning map 141MP002 which GC posted above, it's one of the new maps included with the latest version of the SERT (4.5.2).

grc · « **Reply #16 on:** January 12, 2006, 09:08:59 PM »

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My dealership is telling me the same as UltraFXR except he still contends that it will be in on tomorrow. FR8TRN...I do not have the SE Breather on the new bike, was waiting to get the thing running right. I like the SERT on the 02 SERK and may go to that when I decide what I am going to do with pipes and the breather.
[highlight]I will be very interested in seeing how this works because the shop is going to do the same load with a bone stock bike (mine) and one that has slip ons, and SE Breather, and a Vance and Hines Tuner...don't make a lot of sense that a flash would fix the other bike.[/highlight]I think there may be something more to this problem.

Cheers,
Yukla

Now it's starting to make more sense to me.

magicl1 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 16, 2006, 12:48:41 AM »

Just took delivery of my Haze on Friday (had second thoughts of doing it on the 13th

) Had some trouble getting it into neutral while at the dealership and noticed a little coughing as I was giving it a little gas.

sooiee · « **Reply #18 on:** January 16, 2006, 09:07:41 AM »

Magicl, welcome and congrats on the new SEUG. You may want to run a tank or two through her before making a decision on cold idle problems. It takes about this long for the ecm and efi systems to tune and talk to each other and adjust. Your system is brand new and needs to make it's adjustments. Same thing if you have you bike shipped say to Daytona or to the rockies...you may experience some idle problems until you run her a bit. Enjoy the ride!

Mike103 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 16, 2006, 09:33:44 AM »

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Jvall...I got the word today, Jan 25th is the shipping date for the cartridges. Not sure when they will hit the shop.

2Up...yes, it is a flash for the current ECM and it DOES require a cartridge. We are being told that the MoCo will NOT release this version except this way. Not sure why but we think it has something to do with fixing a production vehicle with a non-EPA flash. I have no idea at this point, I do know that the better get something together and fix this problem ASAP.

Cheers all,

bigmanken · « **Reply #20 on:** January 16, 2006, 07:14:52 PM »

I had the problem develope after the first hundred miles. It would choke and spit until warm. The solution to mine was very simple, the dealer just cleared a bad code. It went away and never appeared again.

I know I was lucky. I sincerely hope your solution will be that simple.

DREBBIN · « **Reply #21 on:** January 17, 2006, 06:55:38 AM »

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I am wondering if anyone is having the same problem I am. I saw a few references to it in an old thread about "Engine Knock" (I hope that problem is resolved now). When my bike has been sitting in the cold for a while it will not stay running until it warms up. It chokes and spits and throws white smoke out the right side unless you hold the throttle up to around 1500 rpm until warm. The dealership first flashed the ECM and that didn't work then the MoCo suggested it might be a Idle Air Control Stepper motor, replaced and still having problem. Now there is another one in the shop for the same thing and the MoCo has authorized the shop to download a stage 1 flash into the ECM. Will have to wait and see. When it is warm, there is no problem whatsoever.
Ever hear of this on others? What was the final resolution if you have had this?
Thanks for the help and this great site!

Yukla (Alaskan for Eagle)

Wow. I've had some real lousy issues with HD but nothing like this so far on the SE. I ride mine in all weather. Fired it up yesterday when it was 22 degrees. Did 177 leisurely miles. No problems. Keep us informed. DREBBIN

magicl1 · « **Reply #22 on:** January 26, 2006, 01:39:00 PM »

Wondering if there has been an update for a fix to a STOCK SET UP for the cold starting problems.

When I start my bike, I let it idle for 2-3 minutes without any throttle revs.

GC_Super · « **Reply #23 on:** January 26, 2006, 01:55:21 PM »

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Wondering if there has been an update for a fix to a stock set up for the cold starting problems.

When I start my bike, I let it idle for 2-3 minutes without any throttle revs.

magicl1 · « **Reply #24 on:** January 26, 2006, 02:56:56 PM »

Mine is still stock. Sounds like some replies have mentioned an update (EPA Approval) for the stock set up to resolve. Looking for any updates with regards to this application.

Wrongway · « **Reply #25 on:** January 26, 2006, 07:56:36 PM »

My CUSE is still stock, after I start and idle for a min. or 2 we ride away. About 1/4 mile is our first stop sign, the bike will cough, maybe stall. First time I was starting a turn and it stalled, almost dropped! This past Sat. (1-21-06)it stalled and wouldn't start, had to push out of traffic's way, finally started and was fine the rest of the day. Took in Monday (1-23-06) for 1000 mile service, told service mgr, tech looked and said that with this BIG an engine I need to warm up longer?

?? I am a Diesel Mechanic by trade, for 26 years now, I WARM THINGS UP! 1 min. of warm up, 1/4 mile riding, IT'S WARM! Told serv. mgr, I have the complaint on file, if this bike stalls on the RR tracks or in an intersection you will be in a HOT SEAT! It's not right, and is too lean, I know what it needs, but I paid alot to have to spend another bunch of $$$$ to have it the way it should have been in the first place. Will be in contact with the owner about the other issue (paint)(Dah) this weekend, will bring this up as well. Wrongway

magicl1 · « **Reply #26 on:** January 26, 2006, 08:41:04 PM »

Spoke to service mgr this afternoon and asked him to call MOCO for any updates on this issue.

grc · « **Reply #27 on:** January 26, 2006, 10:31:40 PM »

Wrongway,

I had the same problem with my '05 SEEG - when cold (below 55), it would fire and immediately stall, then it would start, run at maybe 800-850 rpm, and then hiccup and stall after 30 seconds.

magicl1 · « **Reply #28 on:** January 27, 2006, 12:06:33 PM »

I know others have posted comments about this "Cold Start" issue but thought I would provide the latest from this HD Service Manager. Before he called, he was not aware of any issues and wanted to run the bike through tests. The sales manager was aware of my concerns and followed up with the Service Manager to make the call. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] This was the e-mail I got from the Service Manager this morning.

"WE SPOKE TO HARLEY THIS MORNING ABOUT YOUR BIKE AND THEY ARE AWARE OF THE ISSUSE, THEY ARE WORKING ON AN UPDATE FOR YOUR COMPUTER. THEY ARE HOPING TO HAVE IT BY EARLY FEBRUARY. I WILL CALL YOU AS SOON AS I GET NOTIFCATION OF THE UPDATE TO GET YOUR BIKE IN."

Although somewhat frustrating, I am pleased with their efforts to get involved. Now it's just up to the MOCO. [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

Oh yeah, I started my bike again this morning and experienced the following:

1 min 30 seconds into the warm-up, the first "cut out" occurred but it kept running. 25 seconds later the second "cut out" occurred but the engine died. I started it up again after 10 seconds and 30 seconds later it cut out and died again. Started up again and did not experience any interruptions (some rough idle but I expect that when still warming up). Was idling at about 1,000 rpm.

hdhiwayman · « **Reply #29 on:** January 27, 2006, 12:42:53 PM »

majic1
I'll be starting mine cold probably tomorrow I'll post any problems or lack there of.
Carl

SEULTRA · « **Reply #30 on:** January 27, 2006, 09:36:39 PM »

majic1.... please post to this thread as soon as you hear anything new. I'm getting the same thing. I thought it was because I live at 6000 feet but apparently others at less altitude are getting the same thing.

magicl1 · « **Reply #31 on:** January 28, 2006, 03:16:02 AM »

SEULTRA,
When did you take delivery of yours?
I will provide updates.

SEULTRA · « **Reply #32 on:** January 30, 2006, 11:24:24 AM »

magicl1: Got mine the end of October. Look forward to hearing from you.

magicl1 · « **Reply #33 on:** February 02, 2006, 11:57:53 PM »

Have notice several new owners taking deliver of their new SE's.

Fired00d · « **Reply #34 on:** February 17, 2006, 06:41:43 PM »

If this is the case you are one lucky man, and have an exceptional dealer (this is a $450+ part). Make sure when you pick up the bike you get software, cable, and black box (this marries your ECM to Race Tuner) for Race Tuner. You will need this if you ever decide to change something (pipes, cam, etc) and have to re-program the ECM.

I thought the original ECM could be flashed with a stage one upgrade?

[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]

grc · « **Reply #35 on:** February 17, 2006, 09:36:12 PM »

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Have notice several new owners taking deliver of their new SE's.

Fired00d · « **Reply #36 on:** February 17, 2006, 10:03:13 PM »

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.....I thought the original ECM could be flashed with a stage one upgrade?.....

Quote

.....The only legal way H-D can change the stock calibration is to download a new, EPA legal calibration to your ECM......

That was what I was thinking, and that answers my question. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]

magicl1 · « **Reply #37 on:** February 18, 2006, 12:49:42 AM »

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magicl1,
No way would H-D do that, since that would technically place them in violation of the anti-tampering provisions of the Clean Air Act.

magicl1 · « **Reply #38 on:** February 18, 2006, 01:12:06 AM »

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That was what I was thinking, and that answers my question. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]

A Stage one flash only addresses the need for adjustment after the addition of pipes and AC, and I was not adding them.

hdhiwayman · « **Reply #39 on:** February 18, 2006, 10:52:36 AM »

Majical1,
I too noticed some rough running and coughing when first starting the bike and then even after warm-up if the temps are in the 50's. I installed the freedom power package with the powercommander and was able to ride the other day at near 60 deg. no coughing, no spitting at all. As far as the EPA goes I guess I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

Fired00d · « **Reply #40 on:** February 18, 2006, 11:13:10 AM »

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[highlight]A Stage one flash only addresses the need for adjustment after the addition of pipes and AC, and I was not adding them.

magicl1 · « **Reply #41 on:** February 18, 2006, 01:35:33 PM »

Well, so far so good.

Fired00d · « **Reply #42 on:** February 18, 2006, 03:20:34 PM »

magicl1,
That is awesome, and that dealer deserves [smiley=bigok.gif]. They deserve to be mentioned on this thread: "Great Dealership". Glad everything worked out for you and you got the bike running right.

[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]

spydglide · « **Reply #43 on:** February 18, 2006, 03:44:58 PM »

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I can't say how pleased I am with the dealer.

Hazer_52 · « **Reply #44 on:** February 19, 2006, 11:45:06 PM »

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And I must say, I have a wonderful dealer and my sales manager is a

Yukla95 · « **Reply #45 on:** March 01, 2006, 08:39:21 PM »

Well, I am the one that originally started this and happy to see that others are checking it out and telling their story. I recently got mine back from the dealership (there were two there with the same problem). The fix was sent by the MoCo on a flash module and I actually saw the module. It had SE Race Flags on it! Not sure what was in the module but the bike seems to run better throughout the band.
The dealership told me that the MoCo had told them "if this doesn't work, we will authorize a Race Tuner kit". At that point I was hoping it wouldn't but it seems to have solved the problem. This was the 5th visit to the shop and I am happy to be done with it. I agree Magic1 is very lucky to get an RT for free, I have one for my SERK and love it.
Hope everyone is getting the same kind of support I am!
Cheers, [smiley=drink.gif]
Yukla

mr_magoo · « **Reply #46 on:** March 21, 2006, 04:30:36 PM »

Call HD yesterday to complain about the cold idle and performance issue when cold really got no where except that he gave me a ref# and said have the dealer call. Well call the service manager today and gave him the ref# and he said he would call tech support and maybe they would get back to him in a few days. Well about 2hrs after I talked to the service manager he calls back and says they have a fix coming and sould be out soon(not sure what that means) but at least they are working on a fix.

magicl1 · « **Reply #47 on:** March 22, 2006, 09:02:35 AM »

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Call HD yesterday to complain about the cold idle and performance issue when cold really got no where except that he gave me a ref# and said have the dealer call.

SEULTRA · « **Reply #48 on:** March 22, 2006, 11:37:30 AM »

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It will be interesting to see what the "fix" is.

magicl1 · « **Reply #49 on:** March 23, 2006, 09:17:46 AM »

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Hopefully not the latter. That's why I'm so reluctant to take mine in for the fix... I don't want it to come out worse than when it went in. I spoke to my local HD service guy about this and he thought the [highlight]bolts on the intake gasket needed tightening [/highlight][smiley=nixweiss.gif]

That almost sounds too simple! Wouldn't that be something... From the documentation in the RT manual related to Warmup enrichment and other areas coupled with the "EPA Lean" set up from the factory, I am inclined to believe it is more than that but it could still be a combination of things. It is funny how this affects many, but the symptoms are not always exactly the same. Does your engine cut out and stall about 2 minutes into the warm up when you first start it up in the mornings?

SEULTRA · « **Reply #50 on:** March 23, 2006, 09:49:43 AM »

It does cough and sputter intermittently in the 1st 3 minutes of operation when the engine is cold. Has not stalled for a while but I also haven't had much chance to ride it lately due to winter weather. What scares me is I've started riding after I've given it a 3 minute warm up and it has stalled in the middle of an intersection while I was turning. Almost dropped the bike.

magicl1 · « **Reply #51 on:** March 23, 2006, 10:08:41 AM »

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What scares me is I've started riding after I've given it a 3 minute warm up and it has stalled in the middle of an intersection while I was turning. Almost dropped the bike.

SEULTRA · « **Reply #52 on:** March 23, 2006, 10:13:38 AM »

Yukla95..... Did you get a copy of the workorder that has what they did/replaced to accomplish your fix? I'd like a copy of that to take to my service guy to show him what your fix was. Thanks!

FR8TRN · « **Reply #53 on:** March 23, 2006, 10:25:32 AM »

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That happened to me when I first picked up the bike and was turning around in the parking lot.

SEULTRA · « **Reply #54 on:** March 23, 2006, 10:28:42 AM »

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I stalled mine right off the bat at the dealer, sales guy just standing there lookin at me, I laughed and said "Ha, it's a Hydraulic Clutch".

FR8TRN · « **Reply #55 on:** March 23, 2006, 10:52:14 AM »

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Thanks for the chuckle this AM!

grc · « **Reply #56 on:** March 23, 2006, 11:13:45 AM »

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Hopefully not the latter. That's why I'm so reluctant to take mine in for the fix... I don't want it to come out worse than when it went in. I spoke to my local HD service guy about this and [highlight]he thought the bolts on the intake gasket needed tightening[/highlight]

SEULTRA · « **Reply #57 on:** March 23, 2006, 11:19:13 AM »

Thanks Jerry! Nothing like the voice of experience. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

magicl1 · « **Reply #58 on:** March 23, 2006, 07:08:24 PM »

http://flhrsei.org/yabb2/Attachments/Cold_Start_2-16-06_Cal_36.MT6

IF you have the SERT, this file reflects the changes to Calibration 36 to clear up my cold start problems.

I attached the adjusted file for Calibration 36 the dealer prepared for the cold start problems on my bike. If you open it, you can check the changes made to the AFR and VE (front and rear) tables. While on the respective table, click on Table Comparison > Compare Edits To Reference and it will reflect the difference in values between the adjusted copy and the original #36. Who knows, maybe just the stock #36 would clear the cold start issues.

mr_magoo · « **Reply #59 on:** March 23, 2006, 09:07:46 PM »

I didn't get the part # other than it was the lastest B version download. It dies every morning as its warming up after 1min or so and will continue to die 4-5 more time before I ride off.

arcticdude · « **Reply #60 on:** March 23, 2006, 10:39:36 PM »

Just to ease some people's minds, I went out earlier and started mine.

SEULTRA · « **Reply #61 on:** March 23, 2006, 10:43:21 PM »

Good for you! I'm glad it works well. Maybe HD did do a line change. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
Others will have to pursue a remedy with thier service department.

grc · « **Reply #62 on:** March 23, 2006, 10:50:29 PM »

Quote

Just to ease some people's minds, I went out earlier and started mine.

arcticdude · « **Reply #63 on:** March 24, 2006, 06:43:35 PM »

To clarify, I agree 100%, it's a safety problem that needs to be addressed immediately. All I was trying to convey to the people that haven't gotten their bikes yet, they may not have a problem. It's like the paint issues, some have them really bad, some have them some and some don't really have them at all. The wife's old evo stalls bad when it's cold. We just learned to take 4-5 minutes to allow it to warm before riding it. BUT an FI motor should NOT have to do that. You should be able to hit the starter and grab first gear almost simultaneously. Not that it helps the longevity of the motor, but you should be able to do that if the husband comes home early

mr_magoo · « **Reply #64 on:** March 31, 2006, 04:21:23 PM »

The dealer told me yesterday that the factory has a down load to address the cold running problem but for now they want the ECM shipped to the factory for a reflash, wonder why they aren't releasing it to the dealers.

magicl1 · « **Reply #65 on:** March 31, 2006, 07:35:17 PM »

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The dealer told me yesterday that the factory has a down load to address the cold running problem but for now they want the ECM shipped to the factory for a reflash, wonder why they aren't releasing it to the dealers.

That sounds strange.

grc · « **Reply #66 on:** March 31, 2006, 08:08:03 PM »

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The dealer told me yesterday that the factory has a down load to address the cold running problem [highlight]but for now they want the ECM shipped to the factory for a reflash[/highlight], wonder why they aren't releasing it to the dealers.

This whole saga is getting stranger and stranger.

FR8TRN · « **Reply #67 on:** April 01, 2006, 06:44:34 AM »

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They already have the ability with Digital Technician to restrict downloads by VIN, just like the auto industry has done it for the past 15-20 years, so why not just put it out on the regular system?

Jerry

Perhaps they don't trust the dealers as much as we don't.....

:-?

Author Topic: Cold Idle Problems with the FLHTCUSE (Read 11092 times)

Hazer_52