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[Ultra2010]

I don't feel one bit sorry for them.

You got that right brother, except of course for those that have been injured.  Again:  I'll  to that.

[sadunbar]

Heads will roll.  And the supplier of those accelerator pedals, CTS Corp., is in deep, deep chit for sure (as well they should be).

I saw a representative of CTS Corp on one of the news channels who stated they manufacture a similiar but differently designed device for Honda and Nissan, in addition to the device they manufacture for Toyota.  He added they manufacture each of the devices to the specifications and process supplied by each company.  He stressed they did not design or engineer any of the the devices - they only manufacture to a provided specification.  He further added they were not aware of any issues with the Honda or Nissan specification manufactured parts and were only aware of 12 issues with the Toyota specification designed parts and the issues with those 12 parts did not indicate a manufacturing issue - rather a design issue.  He stated Toyota altered the design of their part within the past two years due to failures that had occurred in European sold Toyota vehicles.

Lots of posturing for the lawsuits - CTS stock took a 20% hit yesterday.

[ultrafxr]

I saw a representative of CTS Corp on one of the news channels who stated they manufacture a similar but differently designed device for Honda and Nissan, in addition to the device they manufacture for Toyota.  He added they manufacture each of the devices to the specifications and process supplied by each company.  He stressed they did not design or engineer any of the the devices - they only manufacture to a provided specification.  He further added they were not aware of any issues with the Honda or Nissan specification manufactured parts and were only aware of 12 issues with the Toyota specification designed parts and the issues with those 12 parts did not indicate a manufacturing issue - rather a design issue.  He stated Toyota altered the design of their part within the past two years due to failures that had occurred in European sold Toyota vehicles.

Lots of posturing for the lawsuits - CTS stock took a 20% hit yesterday.

You know that's coming for sure.  Reminds me of the fiasco with Firestone tires on the Ford Explorer.  Lots of finger pointing.

[grc]

I saw a representative of CTS Corp on one of the news channels who stated they manufacture a similiar but differently designed device for Honda and Nissan, in addition to the device they manufacture for Toyota.  He added they manufacture each of the devices to the specifications and process supplied by each company.  He stressed they did not design or engineer any of the the devices - they only manufacture to a provided specification.  He further added they were not aware of any issues with the Honda or Nissan specification manufactured parts and were only aware of 12 issues with the Toyota specification designed parts and the issues with those 12 parts did not indicate a manufacturing issue - rather a design issue.  He stated Toyota altered the design of their part within the past two years due to failures that had occurred in European sold Toyota vehicles.

Lots of posturing for the lawsuits - CTS stock took a 20% hit yesterday.

The CTS guy also stated that this issue has nothing to do with the "sudden acceleration" problem, it just results in a slow throttle reaction and possible sticking condition.  The following from the Associated Press:

Vinod M. Khilnani, the chief executive of CTS, said in an investor call that "we are working diligently and collaboratively with Toyota to find a field fix and to put additional capacity in place to manufacture the new pedal and support the recall."

Khilnani said the problem was due to pedals that are slow to depress or release when drivers try to accelerate or slow down. He said the only cases when the pedals could get stuck was when they were used in conditions that go "beyond Toyota specifications." Khilnani did not elaborate what those conditions are.

He also distanced CTS, based in Elkhart, Ind., from reports of problems with Toyota models accelerating suddenly. He said CTS knows of no injuries or deaths connected to the slow pedal problem. "The slow pedal return phenomenon is clearly unrelated to the sudden, unintended acceleration issue," he said.

Looks like Toyota needs to get the story straight with the supplier before they both start airing dirty laundry.

You'll note the similarity again to H-D, when he claims the only time the pedal could get stuck was when they were used in conditions that go beyond Toyota specifications.  Sounds like someone trying to blame the user again.

Jerry

[supra6909]

its all a conspiracy, jessie ventura will be doing a show on this in a few years!!!  toyota issues a voluntary recall for a part which "has not" caused any known accidents/injuries...Obama issues a statement after toyota's voluntary recall saying he pressured them into a recall (bullsh**) then last night, Government Motors Corp (formerly General Motors Corp) starts a program that if you trade-in a toyota vehicle, you can receive up to 60mths @ 0%.   Obama's trying to get GM kicked off..
ok seriously, i'm a toyota salesmanager. made a good living with toyota for the past 13 years.  this is bad publicity for toyota, but it's going to hurt us everyday folks alot worse over the next few weeks. Toyota employs more people in the U.S. than Gm and Ford (i believe this is correct) and a lot of salespeople and plant workers are going home or just sitting around waiting right now.  Toyota will be back, no doubt.  A bump in the road, the toyota owners are too loyal (like harley owners). 

[16HD117]

I don't feel one bit sorry for them.

I don't either!  Especially since I work at a Honda dealer!
 

Floor traffic is up!
 

[ultrafxr]

its all a conspiracy, jessie ventura will be doing a show on this in a few years!!!  toyota issues a voluntary recall for a part which "has not" caused any known accidents/injuries...Obama issues a statement after toyota's voluntary recall saying he pressured them into a recall (bullsh**) then last night, Government Motors Corp (formerly General Motors Corp) starts a program that if you trade-in a toyota vehicle, you can receive up to 60mths @ 0%.   Obama's trying to get GM kicked off..
ok seriously, i'm a toyota salesmanager. made a good living with toyota for the past 13 years.  this is bad publicity for toyota, but it's going to hurt us everyday folks alot worse over the next few weeks. Toyota employs more people in the U.S. than Gm and Ford (i believe this is correct) and a lot of salespeople and plant workers are going home or just sitting around waiting right now.  Toyota will be back, no doubt.  A bump in the road, the toyota owners are too loyal (like harley owners). 

I do feel for you and all the good folks that have and will be hurt by this and Toyota will be back as you said.  It is just that it has been so one sided and has been rubbed in the face of domestic automakers for so long that a little 'humble pie' is in order. 

[grc]

.............................
This added after reading GRC's post above:  I though I read something about a cable sticking possibly due to moisture / corrosion ? ? ?   Guess even in TBW there eventually has to be some sort of cable to actuate the throttle ? ? ?   In any case it is a bad situation for all concerned.

The pedal assembly for a throttle by wire model still has a pivot, a linkage attached to the sensors, return springs, etc., but no cable.  The story I read that quoted the guy from CTS indicated that an engineering change was made by Toyota to fix a different problem, and now moisture can get into an area that can lead to corrosion and increased pedal effort / sticking.  If that is the case, I would think the sticking or increased effort problem would be something that would give a driver advance notice as the corrosion formed, and wouldn't be the sudden and catastrophic problem that has led to the wide open throttle crashes.  In other words, this is probably a problem, but not necessarily the problem.  I guess time will tell.  In the meantime, I'll stick to driving my Ford products.

Jerry


One thing about this whole issue that really bothers me is why the driver's of the vehicles don't understand how to deal with a stuck throttle.  There are two methods, put the trans in neutral or shut off the ignition.  Just standing on the brakes isn't going to do anything good; any auto engine can easily overpower the brakes.  For some reason I always thought the average person knew these things, but obviously lots of people don't learn much about their vehicles other than how to turn them on and go.  

[OhioDave]

One thing about this whole issue that really bothers me is why the driver's of the vehicles don't understand how to deal with a stuck throttle.  There are two methods, put the trans in neutral or shut off the ignition.  Just standing on the brakes isn't going to do anything good; any auto engine can easily overpower the brakes.  For some reason I always thought the average person knew these things, but obviously lots of people don't learn much about their vehicles other than how to turn them on and go. 

They would have to put the phone down to do that !!

[grc]

........................ Toyota employs more people in the U.S. than Gm and Ford (i believe this is correct) ...........................

Not yet.  The numbers are around 88,000 GM, 75,000 Ford, and only 36,000 Toyota.  One big reason for the difference is the fact that the domestics employ many more engineers, scientists, etc. in North America, and North America is their worldwide corporate headquarters.  Toyota headquarters is of course in Japan, as is the bulk of their corporate investment and employment.

Jerry

[Wanna ride]

One thing about this whole issue that really bothers me is why the driver's of the vehicles don't understand how to deal with a stuck throttle.  There are two methods, put the trans in neutral or shut off the ignition.  Just standing on the brakes isn't going to do anything good; any auto engine can easily overpower the brakes.  For some reason I always thought the average person knew these things, but obviously lots of people don't learn much about their vehicles other than how to turn them on and go.  

My wife knows every time this comes up on the news, I'm going to blow a gasket... I'm not sticking up for Toyota at all, but what the heck happened to the common sense of consumers? Any idiot that doesn't know how to overcome this simple little obstacle, then maybe their not-so-distant destiny is deserved. Simply reach down, slip it into N (for neutral, idiots) and apply the brakes. Then manuever it to a safe spot on the road side, and turn off the key when the car comes to a stop. WTH is so difficult about that?

I wouldn't suggest turning off the ignition, because then you lose the power brakes and steering. But even that could be better than helplessly speeding into a tree, pole, oncoming traffic, or even worse... an unsuspecting motorcyclist!

I heard about one of these cases where the driver was an off-duty state cop, who even had time to call someone and tell them about the problem. Then he ended up crashing (and died) because he had no where else to go. WTH!?

[NVTHIS]

I finally drank the Japanes kool-aid and bought a couple of Subaru's back in '02.  Biggest pieces of chit I've ever owned.  Quality was worse, reliability was awful, dealers wouldn't fix 'em claiming nothing was wrong, price of parts was outragous, and the trade in value sucked. (Ya know... I thought I was typing about Harley there for a minute  ).  And they weren't any better in the snow then my previous front wheel drive Olds.  And this is supposed to be the cream of the crop when it comes to quality.  Better even then the Toyota.  So I'm convinced that the whole Japanese automotive superiority is just another self loathing anti-American pin head false claim.

My wife has a Ford Fusion AWD now.  Best car we've ever owned.  Anyone thinking of a Camry, I'd reccomend a good hard look at the Fusion.

I have a Ford F-150.  I love my truck!

Ride Safe,
J-Carr

Your right, one of my managers just got a new Ford Fusion AWD. He loves this car. He also said best car he ever bought.

[J-Carr]

Not yet.  The numbers are around 88,000 GM, 75,000 Ford, and only 36,000 Toyota.  One big reason for the difference is the fact that the domestics employ many more engineers, scientists, etc. in North America, and North America is their worldwide corporate headquarters.  Toyota headquarters is of course in Japan, as is the bulk of their corporate investment and employment.

Jerry

Which is the argument I always make and seems to be ignored by the media.  Yes, some of these Japanese cars are "Made In America" and many American cars are made in Canada or Mexico and all of them have a significant chunk of imported parts.  But the key point is an American company has the majority of it's employees in this country and the profits stay here.  Those rich "fat cats" that run these companies hire pool boys and carpenters, eat at expensive american restaurants, spend tons of money to coif their wives and mistresses, etc.

Buy American when possible or don't bitch when your job is gone.  The whole quality gap is BS.  And for our friends who do own or work at a Japanese dealership... I'm sorry, but I beleive if we switch to all buying American there will be a need for you at the new American dealerships (or re-opened old ones).

Ride Safe,
JC

[16HD117]

Which is the argument I always make and seems to be ignored by the media.  Yes, some of these Japanese cars are "Made In America" and many American cars are made in Canada or Mexico and all of them have a significant chunk of imported parts.  But the key point is an American company has the majority of it's employees in this country and the profits stay here.  Those rich "fat cats" that run these companies hire pool boys and carpenters, eat at expensive american restaurants, spend tons of money to coif their wives and mistresses, etc.Buy American when possible or don't bitch when your job is gone.  The whole quality gap is BS.  And for our friends who do own or work at a Japanese dealership... I'm sorry, but I beleive if we switch to all buying American there will be a need for you at the new American dealerships (or re-opened old ones).

Ride Safe,
JC

Does four out of five make me a "Fat Cat"?
 

[grc]

Which is the argument I always make and seems to be ignored by the media.  Yes, some of these Japanese cars are "Made In America" and many American cars are made in Canada or Mexico and all of them have a significant chunk of imported parts.  But the key point is an American company has the majority of it's employees in this country and the profits stay here.  Those rich "fat cats" that run these companies hire pool boys and carpenters, eat at expensive american restaurants, spend tons of money to coif their wives and mistresses, etc.

Buy American when possible or don't bitch when your job is gone.  The whole quality gap is BS.  And for our friends who do own or work at a Japanese dealership... I'm sorry, but I beleive if we switch to all buying American there will be a need for you at the new American dealerships (or re-opened old ones).
Ride Safe,
JC

 

Well said JC.  Too bad the typical American doesn't care until the wolf is standing at their own door, instead of just the neighbor's door.

Jerry