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Author Topic: cleaning issues  (Read 2734 times)

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zsch21

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cleaning issues
« on: April 03, 2010, 08:15:15 PM »

Hey guys,
I've only got around 400 miles on my 2010 SESG (Concord) and when I took delivery there were no scratches in the clear coat, unlike the one they had on their showroom floor which had them everywhere. However, after about 3 washings, I have quite a few. i've switched over to pretty much all Harley cleaning products. I tried the leaf blower option for drying with a filter installed on the end, but it was still kicking stuff out so I reverted back to the chamois drying method which I used for about 4 years with my 01 deuce and did not have the issues that I have now - but it was a lighter color bike. I don't spend a ton of time washing/waxing as what little free time I get, I'd rather be riding, but at the rate I'm going - i'm going to screw this paint job up. I'm doing the two bucket thing and we do have pretty hard water where I live. I have waxed her up once and actually got the swirl/scratch remover - shouldn't need it on a new bike, right? It's getting to the point where I dread washing/waxing b/c I'm afraid I'm going to ruin it.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
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Twolanerider

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Re: cleaning issues
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2010, 09:22:16 PM »

Cleaning is both art and science.  All the right products in the world might not help of you have issues with technique.  And there are many many many (many) products that can do an adequate job.  It sounds like you're using appropriate products and taking appropriate precautions.  Though three washes in 400 miles seems like a lot of time rubbing paint.

If you're concerned that you're somehow not doing it right it's hard to do show and tell in text.  Why not go visit a local detail shop that you can see good work come from.  Then telling the you'll pay them extra to do your bike in front of you and show you how they do it?
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lvse110se5

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Re: cleaning issues
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2010, 11:10:36 PM »

My last bike was  a black 2003 ultra, and I had to learn how to remove fine scratches, swirl marks etc. I worked in a body shop years ago and I am familiar with detailing practices. I ended up using the mcguire products line, consisiting of pre-wax cleaner, swirl remover, glaze and wax. It is all done by hand and has to be a labor of love I guess, either that or just be anal like me and you cannot stand to see the scratches, If done right, the surface will look like a mirror. Once you have achieved this look, apply multiple coats of wax. This will prevent the scratches from getting to the clear coat and will be more easily maintained. I hope that this helps.
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Fired00d

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Re: cleaning issues
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2010, 11:30:55 PM »

I was told a long time ago that paint is applied in a back and forth motion so you should apply/remove wax in the same way the paint is applied. Doing this has prevented swirl marks for me. Using a circular motion to apply and remove wax might be your problem. :nixweiss:

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Twolanerider

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Re: cleaning issues
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2010, 11:35:17 PM »

I was told a long time ago that paint is applied in a back and forth motion so you should apply/remove wax in the same way the paint is applied. Doing this has prevented swirl marks for me. Using a circular motion to apply and remove wax might be your problem. :nixweiss:

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So you do kind of like......... uh; never mind.
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Fired00d

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Re: cleaning issues
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2010, 11:39:05 PM »


So you do kind of like......... uh; never mind.
No swirl marks left. ;) :D

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Twolanerider

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Re: cleaning issues
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2010, 11:39:48 PM »

No swirl marks left. ;) :D

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But the real question... Power buffer? ???
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Fired00d

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Re: cleaning issues
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2010, 11:43:30 PM »

But the real question... Power buffer? ???
All depends on what I'm detailing... always pick the right "tool" for the job. ;) :D ;D :D ;D

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zsch21

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Re: cleaning issues
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2010, 08:07:03 AM »

  Though three washes in 400 miles seems like a lot of time rubbing paint.


It may seem like a lot, but when I took delivery there was sand/salt and melting snow - not good at all, so it needed a wash/wax when I got it home - I think that may have been where some of the scratches came from. I also have to ride through two construction zones to get to work, so it gets pretty dirty, pretty quick.

That's a good point about how paint is applied, but all waxing directions I've ever seen say circular. I'll give it a shot. Appreciate the comments.
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Hawg

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Re: cleaning issues
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2010, 09:21:12 AM »

Just gave mine it's first bath, using Micro Fiber cloths, I have noticed a couple of light scratches in the clear coat which I believe to be from the protective covers put on the bike at the factory. Hopefully these can be cleaned up, also found the first stone chip on the fairing  >:( touch up paint ordered  :'(
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Hawg

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Re: cleaning issues
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2010, 10:51:59 AM »

It may seem like a lot, but when I took delivery there was sand/salt and melting snow - not good at all, so it needed a wash/wax when I got it home - I think that may have been where some of the scratches came from. I also have to ride through two construction zones to get to work, so it gets pretty dirty, pretty quick.

That's a good point about how paint is applied, but all waxing directions I've ever seen say circular. I'll give it a shot. Appreciate the comments.


My number one tip:  Thoroughly flush the dirty surface first with plain water to eliminate as much of the abrasive crap as possible before you start grinding it in with the sponge/rag.

While you may think the bike had no swirls or microscopic scratches when you picked it up from the dealer, odds are that they were there but were hidden by the polish/wax most places apply right before they hand you the keys.  In the painting process, small flaws and dirt particles are sanded and polished.  Depending on how "dirty" the operation is on any particular day, some parts may have much of the surface polished to one extent or another.  If the work is done poorly or with the incorrect equipment, it will result in the obvious surface scratches you saw on that other bike in the showroom.  If done properly and with correct random orbit equipment, the surface will look perfectly smooth.  If you look at it under magnification, however, you will see that there are microscopic "scratches" where ever the surface has been polished.  It's the nature of the beast, and nothing short of respraying will restore the virginal surface.  Don't sweat it, just learn to minimize it.  Flush the surface first, then wash it with a good automotive detergent solution and microfiber towel, using straight line strokes.  Don't grind away at tough deposits, use the appropriate chemical to loosen stuff like tar or baked on bugs (WD-40 works well for tar, btw).  Blow the surfaces and nooks/crannies dry, then follow up with a microfiber towel.  Maintain a good coat of wax at all times, this will protect the surface from the minor abrasion of dirt and dust.  And when the swirls become evident, use a good random orbit polishing tool to lightly polish and then rewax the surface.  A good random orbit machine is much better than trying to do this stuff by hand, and will leave a much more uniform and smooth appearing surface.


Jerry


Oh, btw, while a brand new paint job may look and feel totally "dry", the actual chemical bonds that occur in that urethane clear coat take as much as a month to be completed.  So the most vulnerable period is the first month after the parts are painted. 
« Last Edit: April 04, 2010, 10:55:08 AM by grc »
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yellowhog

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Re: cleaning issues
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2010, 08:47:54 PM »

I've seen guys with just a few miles on their bikes have paint that looks like it's been through a sand storm and I've seen guys with 40,000 + miles that still look nearly new (me included).  It's EASY to pick up those light scratches without having any idea where they came from.  Technique in washing/detailing definitely has a lot to do with it.  What cloth your washing with, what you drying/wiping it with, soap/no soap, etc.  I myself never use a bucket and I rinse the washing mitt/cloth FREQUENTLY.  I thoroughly rinse the bike frequently as well.  I use care in drying, trying to keep from using circular motions and I don't rub too hard!  If you've got fine scratches in the clear, you're better off buffing them out.  I've found that the "scratch & swirl remover really doesn't remove them, just kind of covers them up by rounding the edges so that the light doesn't pick them up as easily.  I got rid of my '03 Ultra late last year and with over 42,000 miles she still looked as good as new...no BS.  Absolutely NO swirl marks or scratches.  And that 'ain't easy to do with black.  Of course, every year I gave her a light buffing and a good waxing to keep the clear fresh looking.  All this has worked for me for years and still does.
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Hawg

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Re: cleaning issues
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2010, 07:49:24 AM »

Just wondering if using the bike cover that came with our bikes can add to the scratches? I haven't used mine yet not sure if I will.  :nixweiss:
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Hawg

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Re: cleaning issues
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2010, 09:04:42 AM »

Every time you cover the bike, you risk scratching it.  I, personally, never cover my bike.  I don't care how carefully you cover/uncover it, you're still dragging it across the paint...
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Blazo

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Re: cleaning issues
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2010, 01:54:45 PM »

I was told a long time ago that paint is applied in a back and forth motion so you should apply/remove wax in the same way the paint is applied. Doing this has prevented swirl marks for me. Using a circular motion to apply and remove wax might be your problem. :nixweiss:

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