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[yellow103]

Took off for a ride today, made it about 2 miles, and the bike started acting like it was runing out of fuel when getting on the throttle, let off and it started popping out the piepes, lookedd down and seen the check engine light on,turned around and took it home, ran rough all the way, checked DTC codes and got the PO 113, had this happen about a month ago, at that time bike ran fine, unplugged the IAT sensor and plugged it back up, all was fine untill today. Will make a trip to the Stealership tomorrow in hopes that a IAT sensor is a stock item. I am assumming at this point that the IAT is bad, not sure. I did pull it out and noticed on one side of the sensor, the material that coats the actual sensor, is coming off, not sure if this means anything or not. Any ideas out there???

[yellow103]

Well IAT sensor is not a stock item, had to order it. Had a friend at work check my IAT sensor and he says it is working as it should. Electrical engineer, guess he knows. So I will attempt to check for a broken wire, anyone know of a good way to do this? I really don;t think the rough running and the bad hesitation and popping out the pipes is a direct cause of the IAT sensor. My concern is did my cam tensioners explode?

[yellow103]

Did a voltage test at the plug and had 5 volts, move the plug up and down and it lost voltage, keep it straight and 5 volts, I am guessing broken wire at the back of the plug, called and ordered a new plug and pins,anyone know if the plug is a Delphi or Deutsch, HD parts had no clue.

[grc]

The IAT connector is a two place Packard connector.  See attached pdf.

Still not sure why this failure would cause all the problems with rough running, since the ECM should just go to the default intake air temp setting and illuminate the check engine light.  I've found that a lot of things on Harley's EFI don't seem to follow normal conventions, so hopefully repairing the intermittent open circuit will take care of everything, even if it doesn't make sense. 


Jerry

[yellow103]

Thanks  Jerry pdf file very helpful, I removed the main lead and the wire was completley broken right behind the connector, now the hard part for me, soldering the new wires and connector back in place, not much room or wire to work with. I too am confused over the way the bike started running, just all of suuden. I am leaning towards its another problem some where else. After reading all the cam tensione issue some folks have had, I am a little worried the problem may be in this area, really have no idea on that one. Bike has 20600 no issue miles till now, Plans were to upgrade to the HD new cam tension kit this winter, Guess I will just trailer it down after fixing the IAT issue and get the upgrade done.

[murphy]

If you're planning on keeping the bike, pay the extra money and replace the tensioners with gear drives... you may also want to replace the inner cam bearing as well, mine blew apart and cost me about $4000 to fix.

It's a lot cheaper to do pre explosion!

[yellow103]

Okay, as much as this hurts $$$$ made a appointment with my guy to have gear drive cams installed, drop the bike off Saturday. Hope this is a good move, some folks think I have lost my mind, gear drive is to noisy they say.

[Twolanerider]

Okay, as much as this hurts $$$$ made a appointment with my guy to have gear drive cams installed, drop the bike off Saturday. Hope this is a good move, some folks think I have lost my mind, gear drive is to noisy they say.

If the lash is good it's not "too noisy."  There is a different noise.  But it's not a bad nor a loud noise.  Personally I like the sound of these engines better with gear drive than with the chains.

[grc]

It isn't necessary to go to gear drives unless you really want them.  The new style chain drive has proved to be much more reliable than the type in our '05 models, and you can make that conversion at a much lower cost than going to gear drives.  Of course, if your crank is excellent in terms of runout, and you want to upgrade the cams anyway, and you've got a guy you can trust to check and set backlash properly on the gears, the gear drives can be an excellent choice as well.  To each his own.  The important thing is to get the stock stuff gone (including those cheap inner cam bearings Murphy mentioned) before any of it causes a $4k to $5k failure.

One other note I forgot to mention in my first post.  Be very careful not to shorten the wires to the IAT during your repair.  You need some slack to allow for movement, or you may find that the second failure comes much quicker than the first one did.  Consider soldering a short piece of wire to the stock wire, after trimming it back to eliminate the broken/frayed section, rather than cut off the broken piece and stretch the remaining wire to fit.  Slack is good, tight is not.


Jerry

[yellow103]

Jerry, The new style chain drive you are speaking of, is this the HD upgrade kit? The guy installing the gear drive is a Harley performance shop, been in the business 20 + years has a good rep in the area. I will be sure to ask a lot questions based on the feed back you guys are giving me, this is why I love this site, so much knowledge folks have to share with us less knowledgeable guys.

[grc]

If you want to use the cams you currently have, then your alternatives are to stick with the stock spring loaded tensioners or use the hybrid kit that H-D sells.  That one includes a new billet cam plate and high output oil pump, as well as hydraulic tensioners in place of the old spring loaded tensioners.  If you want to convert to the stock system from the current models, then you have to buy new "roller conversion" cams.  And of course new cams are also required for gear drive.  So basically, if you plan a cam change you have all four alternatives available to you, but if you want to retain your current cams you only have two choices, stock spring loaded tensioners or the SE hybrid upgrade cam plate kit.


Jerry

[yellow103]

I had another thought after I made the appointment to have gear drive cams installed, is it necessary to change the cam plate and the oil pump? Can I use the stock plate and pump? Any advantages on upgrading these items, that justify the cost?

[Twolanerider]

I had another thought after I made the appointment to have gear drive cams installed, is it necessary to change the cam plate and the oil pump? Can I use the stock plate and pump? Any advantages on upgrading these items, that justify the cost?

At least change the relief spring in the cam plate.  Makes a significant beneficial difference in hot idle-to-low-rpm oil pressure.

[grc]

I had another thought after I made the appointment to have gear drive cams installed, is it necessary to change the cam plate and the oil pump? Can I use the stock plate and pump? Any advantages on upgrading these items, that justify the cost?

If you're going with the gear drives, then yes the stock cam plate is fine but you will still need to use new outer cam bearings as well as the Timken inner bearings.  I'd make absolutey sure the oil pump is perfect before reusing it, since they tend to get scored by the chunks of tensioner material and other crap floating around.  It's much cheaper to replace it now versus tearing it all down again in a few thousand miles to replace the pump.  And most definitely, as Twolane mentioned, the pressure relief valve and spring need to be looked at thoroughly.  Many tend to start sticking, resulting in reduced oil pressure as the bypass valve just dumps the oil into the cam chest to be sucked up and sent back to the tank.  The valve should be removed and polished, and the bore should also be inspected and polished if needed.  I don't know that you really need to increase the spring tension as long as your current oil pressure is within the normal range both at idle and at cruise, but if it's always been a little on the low end of normal this would also be a good time to upgrade the spring to a Baisley spring or at least slightly stretch the stock spring.  I'm not convinced that a large increase in oil pressure is necessarily a good thing, however.  Your engine builder should be familiar with all of this if he's been working on Twin Cams for any significant amount of time.  He may prefer to try to sell you a new SE billet cam plate versus checking and reworking the original, but the SE plates have been known to have issues as well and they aren't necessary for a good reliable build. 

BTW, what I consider to be good oil pressure on the old style system is 10 psi minimum at hot idle, and 32-38 psi at 2000 rpm and up.  If yours is lower than that, definitely upgrade the spring.


Jerry

[yellow103]

I did speak with the performance shop that is going to install the gear drive cams, he will be replacing all bearings, in short everything new excluding the  oil pump and cam plate, that is if they find no issues with those two parts. My oil pressure is very good, 25+ at idle, 38 + under power. So I am hoping all will be found in good shape when they tear it down. My reason for calling them today I'm getting a bit nervous about making the changes, the bike has been very reliable up to this point, like I told then shop, not looking for more power, very happy with the 103 as it is, just want a reliable bike I don't have to worry about each time I go for a ride, these cam tensioner shoes make me nervous, but so do the gear drive cams, because some of he threads I have read on here, some had gear drive and switched back. I guess its a toss up either way you go.

[Fired00d]

I've had gear drives in mine since 2006 and very happy with them.

When I upgraded to gear drive cams (Zippers 575 Gear Drive Cams) I also upgraded the following..

Zippers Pro-Tapered Adjustable Push Rods
Zippers Oil Pressure Bypass Shim
Feuling Oil Pump
Feuling Lifters

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[grc]

I did speak with the performance shop that is going to install the gear drive cams, he will be replacing all bearings, in short everything new excluding the  oil pump and cam plate, that is if they find no issues with those two parts. My oil pressure is very good, 25+ at idle, 38 + under power. So I am hoping all will be found in good shape when they tear it down. My reason for calling them today I'm getting a bit nervous about making the changes, the bike has been very reliable up to this point, like I told then shop, not looking for more power, very happy with the 103 as it is, just want a reliable bike I don't have to worry about each time I go for a ride, these cam tensioner shoes make me nervous, but so do the gear drive cams, because some of he threads I have read on here, some had gear drive and switched back. I guess its a toss up either way you go.

If you are totally satisfied with the way the bike runs stock, I'd suggest you forget changing cams and just do the SE upgrade cam plate kit with hydraulic tensioners.  It will cost less, and you will have reliability at least as good as stock and probably better considering the improved tensioners.  If you change your mind and want more power a couple years from now, you can still do that utilizing the same cam plate.


Jerry

[yellow103]

Fixed the IAT sensor, and discovered that the rough running and popping out the pipes was WATER in my gas, Drained and added a bottle of gas dry running normal. Kept thinking about the gear drive cams and the upgrade hydrauilc tensioner kit, think I will go with the kit.