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Author Topic: What do you think about the American taxpayers bailing out Harley Davidson?  (Read 3967 times)

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yellowhog

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I don't know how many of you have heard, but some of the information about the so-called "bailout" has been released.  The Federal Reserve admitted that they not only bailed out foreign banks with our money, but many corporations as well, among them, Harley Davidson.  The Fed purchased commercial paper issued by Harley-Davidson 33 times, for a total of $2.3 billion.

I, personally, stopped doing business with any company that I knew received a bailout.  My reasoning was that if they can't run their companies profitably, then they deserve go out of business.  Now that I've read the above news, I maybe looking at Harley a little differently too.  The past couple of years, I've stopped buying their over-priced stuff anyway.  I go aftermarket whenever I can.  Just wondering how you feel about this.
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Jus Cruisin

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I don't look at that as a "bail-out". Many companies regularly borrow money for short term working capital and when the banks basically shut down all lending when the economy dumped, the government became the only "bank" that was lending money.  It was not a gift.
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Wild Card

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I don't look at that as a "bail-out". Many companies regularly borrow money for short term working capital and when the banks basically shut down all lending when the economy dumped, the government became the only "bank" that was lending money.  It was not a gift.

Precisely.  Commercial paper is a completely viable means of doing business for corporations.  Typically, only companies with excellent credit ratings are able to issue commercial paper as it isn't backed by collateral and has a short term (less than 9 months) payback. 
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dayne66

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PierceEye

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The only thing I would like to know is has it been paid back or any of it.
I understand why they took the loan as the above folks said it is a commercial paper transaction and the banks just did not have the money to load and hedge fund loans are not smart for a company the size of HD due to the high intrest rates or other forms of payment as in stocks etc.

But if they have not paid any back I would like to see there tax filings and corporate balance sheets to see where all the money went or is
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ultrafan

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we have all helped bail out harley  by over paying for our cvo's
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Harley Guy

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we have all helped bail out harley  by over paying for our cvo's

Bingo.........we have a winner.............pay the man Shirley.

Frankly, I probably would not buy another CVO with the current engine, etc.
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kraut

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Dennis the Menace

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Harley payed all back already mid 2009.

....with interest.  It wasnt free money, they paid interest on it.

What has been mentioned is correct.  When money was made available to prop up the banks, the gov required them to use it for existing loans, not new loans.  The problem was FDIC was in a state of bankruptcy, which if the American people had know that, it likley would have resulted in a run on banks similar to the great depression.

When the loan money dried up, companies that routinely relied on short term loans were faced with no capital and going out of business.  Money for loans was then made available to these companies.

Its a fact that most companies rely on short term loans to float their operations.  Example would be, taking out a loan for $1M for buying parts, producing a product, and then selling that product to recoup the $1M in parts plus any assocaited costs.  That doesnt happen instantaneoulsy, it can take months to sell enough product to make up that $1M they borrowed.  But, once they earn enough on products sold to repay the $1M loan, plus interest, its payed back.  This is a very simple example of how businesses operate.

Unfortunately, money was not made aviailable to many smal companies, and they either weathered the storm or closed shop.  And, many did close shop.

MoCo finance borrows short term money on a nearly daily basis.  So, you can see how capital loans drying up would affect their loan business in short order.  They had to take the gov loans, or go under.  That would not have been a good thing for them.

If you choose not to buy a HD based on their taking loans, thats up to you, but base it on the facts and not perception or emotion.  The Gov stopped allowing banks to loan money while FDIC was propped up, so what would you expect MoCo, and other companies, to do? 

Dennis
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Jerry/MD

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If H-D borrowed the money...and payed it back with interest...that's fine. I'm sure there are plenty of other businesses which have done the same.

However, I do believe Harley is at a crossroad. They have let their quality slip and still expect customers to pay a premium for their products. IMHO loyalty will only go so far. If they want long term survival...they need to improve quality AND hold the line on prices. Not an easy task...but it can be done.

Jerry
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murphy

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Re: What do you think about the American taxpayers bailing out Harley Davidson?
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2010, 12:52:53 PM »

Absolutely... they have dug their own grave on more than one level...

There are a number of folks like me who are fed up with the lack of quality paid for at a premium...

This was my most expensive HD, and is also the one that I have had to repair most frequently..

The jobs I've had to do on this bike have been very expensive, and I do most of the work myself, what about the poor sap who has to take their bike into a stealer to get it fixed?

I will start feeling sorry for Harley when they start feeling sorry for guys like me that they sold a piece of crap to!

:soapbox:
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cyril

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Re: What do you think about the American taxpayers bailing out Harley Davidson?
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2010, 10:19:07 AM »

I support a part of what you guys have to say but bear this in mind .As all you guys appear to have a very loyal outlook upon your country & its made in the USA label (and why not).
Our little country`s experts did little to prop up the great engineering & design industry we once had & like you were proud of. All we do now is import near everything & assemble . Most foreign bought goods are better  than the few things that we do make from imported goods .
If you government will support your industries during this tough period
you will retain one of the best known names on earth ,can that be abad thing ???   JIMHO of course


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kraut

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Re: What do you think about the American taxpayers bailing out Harley Davidson?
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2010, 10:34:48 AM »

thx, Cyril,

just about what I thougt and didn't dare to say as mingling in inneramerican affairs may not be welcome  ;)
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JDOFLHRIDER

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Re: What do you think about the American taxpayers bailing out Harley Davidson?
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2010, 01:40:40 PM »

I think that all bailouts should have been a loan with interest, and goverment doing it was a resposible way of saving jobs,retirement funds and less people on unemployment. The sad part is like most goverment programs is abuse.
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NW Glider

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Re: What do you think about the American taxpayers bailing out Harley Davidson?
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2010, 04:10:36 AM »

I support a part of what you guys have to say but bear this in mind .As all you guys appear to have a very loyal outlook upon your country & its made in the USA label (and why not).
Our little country`s experts did little to prop up the great engineering & design industry we once had & like you were proud of. All we do now is import near everything & assemble . Most foreign bought goods are better  than the few things that we do make from imported goods .
If you government will support your industries during this tough period
you will retain one of the best known names on earth ,can that be abad thing ???   JIMHO of course




I think that one of the general ideas to boycotting companies that have taken bail-out monies is that a lot of the companies have not used the money to build a better company. Instead it was used to bolster the wallets of CEO's etc... and I agree that those companies should be penalized.


The idea of not supporting or buying after-market products is only exacerbating the problem for our made in America companies that still remain. Certainly no one likes to spend more than they should for any product, least of all me, but the proper way is to complain and yell at the "company", let them know what the problem is. Yell LOUD (we all know about loud) and Yell as a group. The noisy wheel gets the grease!

If we allow them to just "go under" then we risk the problems as in the quote from the countries that have seen the results of a failed industry. When we say "enough" and try to put meaning back into the slogan "Proudly Made in America", only then can we complain about a companies prices and quality. I don't have the answers but maybe put higher tariffs on imports. The people from Japan certainly did. Now, (before it's too late) we should look to their example for a "way" to bring the U.S. back to to a country that makes "Quality Products" at reasonable prices.  :soapbox:  :soapbox:  :soapbox:

John





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