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[Cowboy2]

This is a real question in practical terms, and here is why so you know I am dead serious:

In addition to my new 2011 CVO Street Glide in old school Harley colours of orange and black, I also have a Ultra (Dresser in your old school language, Ha!)  Anyway, before the CVO became available (special order only in Oz) an Act of God to get it...  Before that, I studied the concept of a 120R motor dropped into my Ultra.  There was a hitch though.  I sponsor all the Riding for the Disabled on the Sunshine Coast in Australia, and the horses will stop and look at the BIG noise as long as it is slow speed.  I have to ride past the special needs children and horses, about 500 Metres, at 10 mph.  Three people told me the 120R would not be happy, too surgy, on a rocky gravel road down that low in 1st gear.... Also, I thought the hydraulic clutch might be needed with bigger springs to suit the 120R... I did my homework...

My idea was to buy the crate motor to drop in my Dresser, and save the very happy 103 motor as a spare on the floor.  That idea now gone, the next idea to hop up my Dresser is to do cams and pistons in the 103.  How would that compare to the 110 SE in my CVO?  I ride with some clubs that pull out in formation to pass at high speed in a group, and the stock 103 Dresser is a bit slow.   The CVO was an opportunity that came my way and since I was thinking of taking off the top box and queen seat from my Dresser and putting them on as an option with a docking station, the CVO Street Glide was made to order and I had to give it a try...

For long trips, the "Granny Glide" Dresser is still better, fatter tyres, more storage, taller screen, and so on... I might keep both until I adapt to the flat skinny seat and low rider look of my new CVO...  So the question is not madness, will the 103 with hot cams and pistons be a hotter motor than the 110 SE stock with 255 cams and V&H exhaust???  

Until the wather improves and I break in the tight hot running 110, I really do not know what I got so to speak... If I adapt to the Street Glide and still want the top box and queen seat, a black one can go onto the docking station for a trip.  I just do not know the 110 motor and confidence in it yet is lacking...  If I hop up the 103 and pull off the box and queen couch, I end up with a beefier Street Glide with fatter tyres and more meat.  Having two Scooters is a bit "over the top" and I am still working on the answer with your help...

Kind regards to all from OZ down under... Come on down, like Texas with a tropical coast, only 5000kms across... Cowboy 2

[strokerjlk]

to answer a few of your questions. the 120R only fits in the 06 dyna 07 up six speed models. in the as delivered crate motor,it handles just fine at low speed. it actually is very tame at low RPM's. if someone is having surging /bucking at low speed,then it wasn't tuned correct.
you questions about 103 vs 110 is to vague to give a honest answer. either one can be at compatible hp/tq. from 80/90 each to 120/120 each.it is all about parts selection,and tune. I can tell you this in stage 1 form, the 110's I have done outshine the 103's. not a lot of diff in hp. but the tq. of the 110 usually is 10-15 more. a good tuned stage 1 110 ci will even outshine a stage 2 110, it just depends on who tuned each one. for instance you could throw a stage 1 A/C and a set of pipes on your 2011 and get 80-82 hp and 100-102 tq. after a generic tune. then after a good tune it could be 95-98 hp 115-120 tq. so it just depends on which type of bike you ran into.

[Cowboy2]

Hey Stroker J, thanks for that somewhat experienced scientific answer....

I have the Pres. of a local Club, just pick up his new 103 Dyna, with I think a stage 2 in it, and it goes like a scalded cat.
I am not game to drag him off in my stock CVO, I am sure he would lose me in his dust.

I still have a very happy 103 in my late model Ultra, the 110 CVO just came to me by a good luck Act of God.  I was thinking of making a fat Street Glide out of the 103 with the 120R, but got three bad reports. Yours is the first positive report.  I am sold now on the Street Glide look for around town, maybe adding a top box on the docking station for big trips, so I could go either way.  So far the 103 seems the happiest HD engine, smoother and better than my 96 RKing, and I have not decided about the 110, that is why the questions.

It does seem a bit harsh and rocky right now, running a bit hot, and so I am gathering intel from those that seem to know.  I thank you for your valuable input.  My best guess is that stock my 110 will beat the 103 hands down.  But my guess is that a stage 1 103 would pull about equal.  

I am wondering and have a Post asking if the awsome 110 just has a low rise EPA Emissions Controls Cam, and could that be the apparent heat problem?  I decided to start with the 110 CVO when it came my way becasue with the hydralic clutch and 120R if I put it in my stripped down Ultra, I would have been way over capitalized on something that might not work well...

So far I love my FLHXSE2, but am not ready to part with the happy 103 until the 110 breaks in and starts to be happy.... Stroker J, I thank you for your help and any more you may have.....  Cowboy 2

Come on down to Oz, Beer is on me!!!!!!

[strokerjlk]

I am wondering and have a Post asking if the awsome 110 just has a low rise EPA Emissions Controls Cam, and could that be the apparent heat problem?

it has the SE 255 cams. somewhat a EPA cam with it's 13 deg of overlap.but not near as bad as the -8 deg of overlap of the stock 96 cams. the real problem is there lean AFR at idle and cruise.
 a good tune of AFR and timing goes a long ways to cool them down. and wake them up. A lot of guys pull the 255's without seeing there full potential. but they work pretty good with stock compression. 


this is a stage 1 I did a while back, only one I have on this computer
better pipes get better results.

[Cowboy2]

Cool Stroker J...

My charted exhaust analysis on the 110 did show a bit lean at 3000 rpm, with the cats gone and V&H.. But they (Local HD) said stock it was worse.  

With an HD Race Tuner, CAN they adjust up the A-F Ratio to cool it running rich with the Laptop VCM?   You have to understand that Down Under, we do not have access to a lot of tuners or experience with them...  

I can buy an HD VIN # locked, Race Tuner, if the richen up of the A-F Ratio will work to cool the engine down and smooth it out.....

Wat cha think there Stroker J?  You are a Champion....

P.S. Just got off the phone with my local HD.  They claim their HD Vin # locked Race Tuner has much further reaching parameters and abilities than the other aftermarket, and the only reason the other ones are popular is they are simpler to use where the HD Tuner is complex and far reaching and takes a VCM hookup to a laptop and someone that knows what they are doing.  They also claim that looking at my exhaust gas chart, it might not make a difference I would notice as it was pretty good just going slightly above the mediun line for lean at 3000.  I was impressed they did not try and take advantage for $$$ reasons. It is their contention that maybe just ride it, and it will smooth out at 4000-5000 kms.  AS to HOT, big jugs, big C.I. and summer with a new engine (summer down under that is)... Might be all it is?  

Comments welcome, and appreciated...
I Love this Forum, takes the STING out of not being able to ride now with an extreme monsoon rainfall of record proportion raining nearly every day here in Queensland Australia...  I ride in the rain, but a one hour ride is about a one hour wash, dry, and polish job on a new CVO to get the road grime off... 

[HOGMIKE]

Cool Stroker J...

My charted exhaust analysis on the 110 did show a bit lean at 3000 rpm, with the cats gone and V&H.. But they (Local HD) said stock it was worse.  

With an HD Race Tuner, CAN they adjust up the A-F Ratio to cool it running rich with the Laptop VCM?   You have to understand that Down Under, we do not have access to a lot of tuners or experience with them...  

I can buy an HD VIN # locked, Race Tuner, if the richen up of the A-F Ratio will work to cool the engine down and smooth it out.....

Wat cha think there Stroker J?  You are a Champion....

P.S. Just got off the phone with my local HD.  They claim their HD Vin # locked Race Tuner has much further reaching parameters and abilities than the other aftermarket, and the only reason the other ones are popular is they are simpler to use where the HD Tuner is complex and far reaching and takes a VCM hookup to a laptop and someone that knows what they are doing.  They also claim that looking at my exhaust gas chart, it might not make a difference I would notice as it was pretty good just going slightly above the mediun line for lean at 3000.  I was impressed they did not try and take advantage for $$$ reasons. It is their contention that maybe just ride it, and it will smooth out at 4000-5000 kms.  AS to HOT, big jugs, big C.I. and summer with a new engine (summer down under that is)... Might be all it is?  

Comments welcome, and appreciated...
I Love this Forum, takes the STING out of not being able to ride now with an extreme monsoon rainfall of record proportion raining nearly every day here in Queensland Australia...  I ride in the rain, but a one hour ride is about a one hour wash, dry, and polish job on a new CVO to get the road grime off... 

I think you will find every dealer/company will tell you that theirs is better than the others, and give you reasons they think so.
Do some homework and talk to others that have been down that road and spent $$$ on different parts. Make an "informed" decision to what YOU want, and just do it!
Research is your best friend! There are lots of knowledgeable people on here. Like I tell my son, "Listen and learn"! LOL
 

[strokerjlk]

Cool Stroker J...

My charted exhaust analysis on the 110 did show a bit lean at 3000 rpm, with the cats gone and V&H.. But they (Local HD) said stock it was worse.  

With an HD Race Tuner, CAN they adjust up the A-F Ratio to cool it running rich with the Laptop VCM?   You have to understand that Down Under, we do not have access to a lot of tuners or experience with them...  

I can buy an HD VIN # locked, Race Tuner, if the richen up of the A-F Ratio will work to cool the engine down and smooth it out.....

Wat cha think there Stroker J?  You are a Champion....

P.S. Just got off the phone with my local HD.  They claim their HD Vin # locked Race Tuner has much further reaching parameters and abilities than the other aftermarket, and the only reason the other ones are popular is they are simpler to use where the HD Tuner is complex and far reaching and takes a VCM hookup to a laptop and someone that knows what they are doing.  They also claim that looking at my exhaust gas chart, it might not make a difference I would notice as it was pretty good just going slightly above the mediun line for lean at 3000.  I was impressed they did not try and take advantage for $$$ reasons. It is their contention that maybe just ride it, and it will smooth out at 4000-5000 kms.  AS to HOT, big jugs, big C.I. and summer with a new engine (summer down under that is)... Might be all it is?  

Comments welcome, and appreciated...
I Love this Forum, takes the STING out of not being able to ride now with an extreme monsoon rainfall of record proportion raining nearly every day here in Queensland Australia...  I ride in the rain, but a one hour ride is about a one hour wash, dry, and polish job on a new CVO to get the road grime off... 

where to start?
I guess just ramble a little and try to hit your questions.
it is possible to help the motor run cooler or better,with a laptop and home tuning,be it using the smart tune in the SESPT software or educated guesses collecting data, and analyzing it. some can do it and some just make it worse. the important thing is to get the tuner calibrated with the ve tables. now you can make pretty acurate changes to the AFR /Lambda tables. if it isnt calibrated in the ve tables correct, the changes made are just going to be richer or leaner,but from what actual AFR?
When you say your AFR went lean at 3000 rpm's on the AFR graph.....you have to understand that that graph is just a snap shot of what it is doing at wide open throttle. it is not what it does at that same 3000 rpm's at say 20 % throttle. guys get caught up in wanting a straight AFR line on the graph at WOT.(TUNERS AND OWNERS ALIKE) in reality the motor might not like the same AFR at say 3000 rpm's as it does 5000 rpms. will it make it run bad to set the AFR the same across the rpm band at WOT? no but it wont be as happy especially when you venture away from stage 1 motors.
on that same thought....the dyno graph still being a snap shot of WOT what does it do at the other throttle positions? just because it has 100 tq. at 2500 rpms at WOT,dosent mean it is that same 100 tq at 2500 rpm's at 20% throttle. this is why a dyno tune can get the most out of the motor at all given rpm's and throttle positions. how would one determine what works best if they couldn't measure the changes?
one tuner being better or harder..... put them into categories. those that flash the ECM? they all do the same basic thing. reprogram the ECM. while some are more familiar with one brand vs another,and this can determine if that dyno tuner can get a better tune. but if he was familiar with all of them he could get the same results with any of them. not even going to go into foolers and fuelers, because you weren't asking about those. LOL
FWIW I would say your motor is pretty lean in most areas, it will even be rich in a few areas. it isnt going to get better somehow magically as the dealer is trying to elude to.

[Cowboy2]

Wow, Stroker J,

Thank you for the Science of the HD....  You sound like the voice of experience, so I am going to take it as the Gospel pending further research breakthroughs....  I will just assume my 110 is hot running engine, and it does not hurt it.  The general reports are that by far and away most of the latest 110s are running fine and longterm are good motors, and I need to just run it in.  The general reports are that it makes a dramatic breakthrough somewhere around 5000 kms, and better yet at 10,000. 

My concern was only because of the heat and breaking it in, in Summer here in Oz, mostly over 100 F....   Thank you for the help, and I will just leave it alone and run it........

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYBODY, (Day early Down Under past the International Dateline)...  God Bless and Protect you ALL when you ride)...

Cowboy 2, in Oz