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[agagliar]

I own an cvo road glide 09, I am planing on changing the headers to a true duel V&H power duels, and they tell me i need a fuel management system to go along with it. I have heard good and bad things about both and i am torn, I like the fact that the race tuner is not something that has to stay plugged into you bike but also i hear great things about the PC,

I am not a guy to play around with the maps, I want harley to put it in and I want to be done with it,  Any suggestions  on which way to go?

[Twolanerider]

If you're wedded to the choices of either Power Commander or Race Tuner there's no reason to really let it be your decision.  Ask whomever the dyno operator you've selected what his preference is and go with that.  You're paying him to use whatever he's best with.  So let the choice be his. 

If not wedded to either might also consider a relatively new tuning product called EMS from Revolution Performance.  I've used it and liked it as have a few others here.  No dyno with this product.  Just put it on and go.  It's the engine management packagement for those of us too old, impatient or just bored to spend hours dialing them in ourselves when there's an option that can have the whole task done in less than an hour.

[cvobiker]

I own an cvo road glide 09, I am planing on changing the headers to a true duel V&H power duels, and they tell me i need a fuel management system to go along with it. I have heard good and bad things about both and i am torn, I like the fact that the race tuner is not something that has to stay plugged into you bike but also i hear great things about the PC,

I am not a guy to play around with the maps, I want harley to put it in and I want to be done with it,  Any suggestions  on which way to go?

There is a new product on the market by Revolution Performance called EMS and as Twolane pointed out, many of us here have tried and used the system and very happy with it. The system does exactly what your are seeking. The installation takes less than an hour and your on the road with a tune as good or possibly better then professional Dyno Tune. In fact, you can pay for this product with the $$$ you would spend on your first Dyno Tune. The EMS is a true self-optimizing system, if you ever change cams, exhaust, throttle bodies, etc. the system instantly self adjusts for the change. You dont have to mess with laptops, no cumbersome data runs and logging, you just plug and go... here is there site if you want more info.. and if you purchase from Jenni with Tri County HD you can save you 20%.. Also, if you purchse direct from Revolution Performance and mention you are a CVOHarley member, they will give you a 10% discount.  http://www.revperf.com/Precision/index.html

[agagliar]

thanks for the info both of you guys, i will look into that one.

[Rio]

You opened up a can of worms and its very likely that this blog will reach a count of at least 50!   All I can tell you is that there are several fuel management systems.  Everyone has a preference or a favorite much like your local football team.  A HD dealer will not promote anything outside of a HD product.  You can go the easy route and you will get a ton of opinions here and make a choice, or get on the internet and start doing your own research.  If that's all you plan to do to your bike, it shouldn't be very complicated.  I like ThunderMax and a lot of others do as well that are members of this site.  However there are alot of others to choose from and everyone has their preferences.....keep in mind what you are trying to accomplish and what your need are.  These guys are great at spending $$$$$ and they know their CHIT!

[Fired00d]

..... The EMS is a true self-optimizing system, if you ever change cams, exhaust, throttle bodies, etc. the system instantly self adjusts for the change. .....

Could be wrong... have been before... but I thought it was stated if/when you make changes to your bike you had to send the ECM back to Rev and have them reprogram it... Is that correct or am I mistaken? TIA.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[timo482]

only if you change the size of the injectors or change the displacement over 10 percent. - other than that - they say bolt on what ever you want and go ride it will adjust to suit right away. you could put on a huge air cleaner to go hot rodding with the buds and then put on a stock one for a long trip in the rain - and it will just adjust.

long ago i know a guy who had two manifolds for his car - a two barrel manifold and a dual quad - change the manifold and go racing. with efi thats harder to do - but IS possible if the computer program is set up to see the change and adjust.

obviously a racer will be happier with tts etc - but for a guy in his garage - no laptop? thats a big bonus for ems.

to

[Spiderman]

This is just me speaking here and my personal experiences as compared with close bros. I've had several H-D's with SERTs on them and am a huge fan. I've seen my bros use PC's and have them go haywire after a couple years. Yes, the PC"s run real sweet when new, but seem to develop electronic flu or something as time goes by. The SERT on LD is now going on 5 years old and has not had a single glitch. I have no idea what H-D has done to them since I bought the one in LD in Oct 06 so I may be speaking of days gone by. What I can say is the two 03 SERKS that had them, the 05 SEVROD that had one and LD my 07 Faux CVO RG all have run like bulls in heat. 


B B

[mjb765]

only if you change the size of the injectors or change the displacement over 10 percent. - other than that - they say bolt on what ever you want and go ride it will adjust to suit right away. you could put on a huge air cleaner to go hot rodding with the buds and then put on a stock one for a long trip in the rain - and it will just adjust.

long ago i know a guy who had two manifolds for his car - a two barrel manifold and a dual quad - change the manifold and go racing. with efi thats harder to do - but IS possible if the computer program is set up to see the change and adjust.

obviously a racer will be happier with tts etc - but for a guy in his garage - no laptop? thats a big bonus for ems.

to

An air cleaner change it will be fine with.....According to the company, if you change cams then you will need to send your ECM back to them for re-programming--but they will do it for free.

[cvobiker]

This is just me speaking here and my personal experiences as compared with close bros. I've had several H-D's with SERTs on them and am a huge fan. I've seen my bros use PC's and have them go haywire after a couple years. Yes, the PC"s run real sweet when new, but seem to develop electronic flu or something as time goes by. The SERT on LD is now going on 5 years old and has not had a single glitch. I have no idea what H-D has done to them since I bought the one in LD in Oct 06 so I may be speaking of days gone by. What I can say is the two 03 SERKS that had them, the 05 SEVROD that had one and LD my 07 Faux CVO RG all have run like bulls in heat.  


B B

The Revolution Performance EMS is a brand new system, i think less the 6 months on the market, so we havent had a whole lot of time to really make a good evaluation beyond all the good things we've seen and heard so far. I will say the EMS system is very similar to the Daytona Twin Tech TCFI using proven Bosch wide band O2 Sensors. and according to Brian of Revolution Performance, Chris Schroeder (owner of DTT) was involved with engineering the EMS product. So with that being said, I have no doubts at all that the EMS system will be nothing less than a superior product. Chris Schroeder is one of the industries best when it comes to designing and engineering electronic controlled EFI systems and combine his knowledge with the expertise the Revolution Performance folks have, thats makes a damn good recipe. So far the EMS is showing good reviews and i have not read or heard of one dissatisfied user. In fact, I read on another forum where a few Dyno runs were done comparing the EMS against a popular cumbersome data log tune and the EMS came out equal or better on the Dyno comparison results.  That in-itself is enough to sell me. Especially when i consider all the damn time I have wasted trying to get 'that perfect' tune with a SERT or TTS... i think the guys & gals at Revolution Performance have an awesome product and it's just a mater of time for this to catch on.... ..  

[Fired00d]

An air cleaner change it will be fine with.....According to the company, if you change cams then you will need to send your ECM back to them for re-programming--but they will do it for free.

Thanks, I knew there was something I'd heard about it having to go back for.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[cvobiker]

Thanks, I knew there was something I'd heard about it having to go back for.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

dood - i read on anther forum that you can do a cam change without a re-flash then read here you can't.. I sent a PM to Rev Performance and asked them to explain.. If i threw missinformation on this thread,, i apologize.     in any case,, i'll make sure to correct when REV explains. 

[Fired00d]

dood - i read on anther forum that you can do a cam change without a re-flash then read here you can't.. I sent a PM to Rev Performance and asked them to explain.. If i threw missinformation on this thread,, i apologize.     in any case,, i'll make sure to correct when REV explains. 

No worries... I don't have a dog in this fight either way... just wanted to make sure I wasn't mistaken on what I read/heard.

Do let us know what you find out from Rev so it will clear it up for all.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[mjb765]

dood - i read on anther forum that you can do a cam change without a re-flash then read here you can't.. I sent a PM to Rev Performance and asked them to explain.. If i threw missinformation on this thread,, i apologize.     in any case,, i'll make sure to correct when REV explains. 

I would be interested in hearing the answer as well.  Who knows....maybe the guy gave me the wrong info......

[cvobiker]

No worries... I don't have a dog in this fight either way... just wanted to make sure I wasn't mistaken on what I read/heard.

Do let us know what you find out from Rev so it will clear it up for all.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

Got an email back from Brian at Ref Performance tonight, he said No re-flash is necessary for a cam change, the EMS will self adjust.   

[mjb765]

Got an email back from Brian at Ref Performance tonight, he said No re-flash is necessary for a cam change, the EMS will self adjust.   

That's very good to know....Thanks for the correct info.

[Fired00d]

Got an email back from Brian at Ref Performance tonight, he said No re-flash is necessary for a cam change, the EMS will self adjust.   

Thanks for finding this out.

Did he mention if any or what changes would require the unit being sent back for a re-flash??.... something still sticks in my mind that it would have to be returned for some reason.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Fired00d]

Ok, I'm not completely crazy I knew I'd read there were reasons it had to be returned...

Wurk,

You actually don't have to send it back to us to "return to stock".  Here's how it would work and we'll say for the point of argument that you want to return to using the TTS.  What you would do is have the dealer, any dealer simply flash a base calibration back into your ECU just like if you had to buy a replacement for some reason.  Then you can upload your previous TTS, or SERT, or basic motor company Stg. download in it as normal and you are ready to go.  Obviously removing the LSU's and controller as well. This can be done by any dealer at any time now or in the future.  The only reason(s) that the ECU absolutely must come back to us is for two reasons.  1.  You change to different injectors from the original cal or 2. You exceed 20% increase in displacement from the original base cal.

Hope this answered your questions and if we can help you out we will be glad to.

Brian

Depending on how radical cam replacement a person went could that not be more then a 20% increase in displacement?

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Twolanerider]

Ok, I'm not completely crazy I knew I'd read there were reasons it had to be returned...

Depending on how radical cam replacement a person went could that not be more then a 20% increase in displacement?

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

Cam doesn't change the cubic inch displacement of the engine Gary.  That's just bore size and stroke.

I'll admit that if a radically different cam were used I'd have a conversation with them about a map change.  Because of the timing curves.  But cams don't change engine displacement.

[Fired00d]

Cam doesn't change the cubic inch displacement of the engine Gary.  That's just bore size and stroke.

I'll admit that if a radically different cam were used I'd have a conversation with them about a map change.  Because of the timing curves.  But cams don't change engine displacement.

Thanks.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[cvobiker]

I asked Brian for better explanation, i.e. limitations on cam variations and even throttle body swap outs.. still waiting for his reply.  There are some modifications that require you to send the ECU in for a free re-flash but i cant remember.. Brian,, if you are following this thread,, make it easier,,, chime in   

[Badger Mike]

Seems like everyone bags on PC, but a lot of people are using them on all sorts of bikes.  Personal preference...

[Twolanerider]

Seems like everyone bags on PC, but a lot of people are using them on all sorts of bikes.  Personal preference...

I had no complaint with Power Commanders.  Used them for years and many many miles.  Had one fail.  But any part can.  Even a stock ECM.  If it can't break we probably can't ride it.

[revperf]

Hey Guys,

Sorry about the delay in responding.  We(I) have been out of the office at the Indy Powersports Expo since Wednesday of last week.  Thanks for the questions and the consideration of our product.  We are having fun with it and enjoying the responses of people having good luck with it.  Let's address a couple of questions that were specific first.  With regards to a cam change the answer is no, you don't have to send the ECM back to us.  One of our first testers, and subsequently, endorsers of the product was Dan Thompson of Hotshot Motorworks.  He got a unit and installed it on his bone stock '09 Street Glide and rode it for evaluation.  He then came back and installed a full exhaust, .615" Crane cams, a 103" kit and a set of his ported heads.  He went through the start up procedure again, confirmed that the system did, in fact, re-adjust itself for the new combination and left on it for Fla.   Only after this test would he endorse the system.  The system has a 20% cubic inch displacement window and if you change the numeric value of the injectors we need it back.  All you have to do is get it to us and we re-cal for free.  Most of the time the increase in displacement and an injector change go hand in hand so that gets it done.  Thanks again and feel free to call if you have any questions before I get a chance to get over here and answer them.

Brian

[cvobiker]

Hey Guys,

Sorry about the delay in responding.  We(I) have been out of the office at the Indy Powersports Expo since Wednesday of last week.  Thanks for the questions and the consideration of our product.  We are having fun with it and enjoying the responses of people having good luck with it.  Let's address a couple of questions that were specific first.  With regards to a cam change the answer is no, you don't have to send the ECM back to us.  One of our first testers, and subsequently, endorsers of the product was Dan Thompson of Hotshot Motorworks.  He got a unit and installed it on his bone stock '09 Street Glide and rode it for evaluation.  He then came back and installed a full exhaust, .615" Crane cams, a 103" kit and a set of his ported heads.  He went through the start up procedure again, confirmed that the system did, in fact, re-adjust itself for the new combination and left on it for Fla.   Only after this test would he endorse the system.  The system has a 20% cubic inch displacement window and if you change the numeric value of the injectors we need it back.  All you have to do is get it to us and we re-cal for free.  Most of the time the increase in displacement and an injector change go hand in hand so that gets it done.  Thanks again and feel free to call if you have any questions before I get a chance to get over here and answer them.

Brian

Brian,

Thanks for clearing some of these questions up. I have one more.. I've read on other forums where users have done dyno comparisons on same bikes with SERT and/or TTS and with EMS and seeing equal or better results with EMS. Have you done any of these tests? And if you have can you post some comparison charts? The point that EMS can equal or match a dyno tune would interest a lot of potential users.   

[SBB]

Brian,

 I have one more.. I've read on other forums where users have done dyno comparisons on same bikes with SERT and/or TTS and with EMS and seeing equal or better results with EMS. Have you done any of these tests? And if you have can you post some comparison charts? The point that EMS can equal or match a dyno tune would interest a lot of potential users.    

From what I hear and have read about the Rev Perf EMS it does provide an increase across the entire rpm range.
I would hope that Brian is smart enough to not get caught up in the "mine is bigger and better than yours" dyno debate.
I'm sure as time progresses there will be plenty of dyno comparisons by installers that speak to the efficiency of the EMS.
The facts may be what they are but so often manufacturers will make outlandish claims and by doing so, loose credibility..
I think (IMHO) the EMS will speak for itself through the customer responses.
Time tells most tales and with 4 bikes I have plenty of time to view results before I pull the trigger.
Brian, hurry up, the 01 SERG is calling your name.

SBB

[revperf]

CVO,

I have a couple but I haven't posted them because of the exact reason(s) that SBB brought up.  Right or wrong from a marketing stand point, I don't want this to turning into a dyno war because, honestly, that's not why we created the product.  I have a couple of sheets that I can send in a PM though which is what we have been doing for other customers upon request. 

Thanks for your support guys!

Brian

[cvobiker]

CVO,

I have a couple but I haven't posted them because of the exact reason(s) that SBB brought up.  Right or wrong from a marketing stand point, I don't want this to turning into a dyno war because, honestly, that's not why we created the product.  I have a couple of sheets that I can send in a PM though which is what we have been doing for other customers upon request. 

Thanks for your support guys!

Brian

I wasnt looking at it so much as a 'dyno war' but more for curiousity because it seems to be a factor with a lot of guys... personaly it's something i would like to see and i dont want to discourage anyone posting their numbers related to before afts with your system.. at some point 'dyno war' or not.. these numbers will be posted   

[revperf]

CVO,

I went back and looked at my post and I realized that I really should have been more clear.  What I meant was that I am encouraging customers to post their sheets rather than us.  Much, much more credible when it doesn't come from us.

Brian

[Spiderman]

CVO,

I went back and looked at my post and I realized that I really should have been more clear.  What I meant was that I am encouraging customers to post their sheets rather than us.  Much, much more credible when it doesn't come from us.

Brian

For those of us still stuck in the stone age of 2006 technology as am I, could you please explain who "us" is ? There's a good baker's dozen of aftermarket ECM modifiers and tuners (whatever you want to call them) on the market these days and I don't know one from another WHICH, I think was one of the things the member who started this thread was looking to find out. The thread has morphed into a discussion between several people who seem to be in the know about a particular product of which I am not ashamed to admit am clueless. Basically picture Gibbs on NCIS asking McGee to explain some computer gobbledy-gook to him in English and that'd be me (Gibbs)

Thanks
          B B

[Steve Cole]

There are basically three types of systems. First is a replacement ECM type. This removes the HD supplied ECM and replaces it, Second would be a tuning product that allows the factory HD ECM to be reprogrammed and changed as much or little as you like. These can be done by the DIY crowd or the tuners out there with a dyno. The third type is a inline device that cuts into the wiring of the bike and fools the sensors to get the factory ECM to think something is different than it really is and modify the signals coming out of the ECM. They all fall into one of these categories. Which is best all depends on who you are asking and what you are looking for.

[Spiderman]

There are basically three types of systems. First is a replacement ECM type. This removes the HD supplied ECM and replaces it, Second would be a tuning product that allows the factory HD ECM to be reprogrammed and changed as much or little as you like. These can be done by the DIY crowd or the tuners out there with a dyno. The third type is a inline device that cuts into the wiring of the bike and fools the sensors to get the factory ECM to think something is different than it really is and modify the signals coming out of the ECM. They all fall into one of these categories. Which is best all depends on who you are asking and what you are looking for.

Could you please add some examples of what's on the market for each of the types you describe. I still don't know one from another and suspect I'm one of many who doesn't. I have no problem with being tagged a dumbass for not knowing either

B B

[sadunbar]

For those of us still stuck in the stone age of 2006 technology as am I, could you please explain who "us" is ? There's a good baker's dozen of aftermarket ECM modifiers and tuners (whatever you want to call them) on the market these days and I don't know one from another WHICH, I think was one of the things the member who started this thread was looking to find out. The thread has morphed into a discussion between several people who seem to be in the know about a particular product of which I am not ashamed to admit am clueless. Basically picture Gibbs on NCIS asking McGee to explain some computer gobbledy-gook to him in English and that'd be me (Gibbs)

Thanks
          B B

"Us", is Revolution Performance... Brian Nalin (revperf) is speaking of their EMS tuning device...  (which is a 4th category of tuner)

[Steve Cole]

First is the replacement of the ECM, this would be units like the Thundermax.
Second would be units that reprogram the factory ECM, this would be units like Mastertune, SERT, SESPT
Third would be units that splice into the wireing, this would be units like a PC3, PC5, Fuel Pak
The Rev performance unit is using the second category and shipping the factory ECM back to you so instead of you tuning it they ship a canned tune to you in the ECM that you shipped to them.

So it's all in what your looking to do and what you expect from a unit. The first group means that you have removed th eFactory ECM and replaced it with something from another supplier. The second group allows you to make any tuning changes you need or take it to someone to do it for you. The Rev unit does this with a little twist in that you remove the ECM and ship it to them then they install the tune and ship it back to you with there tune in place. The third group allows you to make some changes after the ECM has made up what it wants done, this limits what they can and cannot do.

[sadunbar]

First is the replacement of the ECM, this would be units like the Thundermax.
Second would be units that reprogram the factory ECM, this would be units like Mastertune, SERT, SESPT
Third would be units that splice into the wireing, this would be units like a PC3, PC5, Fuel Pak
The Rev performance unit is using the second category and shipping the factory ECM back to you so instead of you tuning it they ship a canned tune to you in the ECM that you shipped to them.

So it's all in what your looking to do and what you expect from a unit. The first group means that you have removed th eFactory ECM and replaced it with something from another supplier. The second group allows you to make any tuning changes you need or take it to someone to do it for you. The Rev unit does this with a little twist in that you remove the ECM and ship it to them then they install the tune and ship it back to you with there tune in place. The third group allows you to make some changes after the ECM has made up what it wants done, this limits what they can and cannot do.

I put the Revolution Performance EMS in a fourth category because with the Mastertune, SERT and SESPT, you can put your bike on a dyno and tune it.

With the Rev. Perf. EMS, you send your ECM to them and they do their thing with it, and then you run off the 02 Sensors.  You cannot tune your bike on a dyno with only the Rev. Perf. unit installed....which to my thinking.... makes it unique to the category...

[cvobiker]

I put the Revolution Performance EMS in a fourth category because with the Mastertune, SERT and SESPT, you can put your bike on a dyno and tune it.

With the Rev. Perf. EMS, you send your ECM to them and they do their thing with it, and then you run off the 02 Sensors.  You cannot tune your bike on a dyno with only the Rev. Perf. unit installed....which to my thinking.... makes it unique to the category...

And add a little more uniqueness to this forth category (or 3rd group  ),,,,you're not doing much of anything for an optimum tune near or better then a tune in the first 3 categories (or 1st 2 groups).  The tunes we like to see with broadband sensors on the dyno tables.    And then the icing on this 4th category uniqueness is; you get this optimum tune on the fly automatically the second you hit the start button...  .... Im liking this new forth category..  

[cvobiker]

CVO,

I went back and looked at my post and I realized that I really should have been more clear.  What I meant was that I am encouraging customers to post their sheets rather than us.  Much, much more credible when it doesn't come from us.

Brian

Brian, i understand what you are saying and where you're coming from.. Your modesty is well served here and respected  

[BigDog1]

  Wow am I glad I found this thread!  I was just starting research on this as I am totally clueless to fuel management like some others.  Definitely explained a lot of things very well.  I'm picking up my '11 SE2SG in May and want to have everything ready when I get it. 
 
Couple of Q's.  If I go with the Rev Perf EMS, how long of a turn around is there to get the ECM back? 

Once I get it back, this is something that I can install myself? 

I'm using the V&H true duals, do I need to order the '09 pipes for the correct size o2 sensor?  I've read in other threads talk about 12 mm and 18 mm (?)O2 sensors depending on the year.

Warranty, still good?  I got the 5 year warranty so don't want to screw it up!!  On that subject, will the dealer install it for me?? 

Thanks again, I am so glad I found this forum, you guys ROCK!!  BD1       

[mjb765]

  Wow am I glad I found this thread!  I was just starting research on this as I am totally clueless to fuel management like some others.  Definitely explained a lot of things very well.  I'm picking up my '11 SE2SG in May and want to have everything ready when I get it. 
 
Couple of Q's.  If I go with the Rev Perf EMS, how long of a turn around is there to get the ECM back? 

Once I get it back, this is something that I can install myself? 

I'm using the V&H true duals, do I need to order the '09 pipes for the correct size o2 sensor?  I've read in other threads talk about 12 mm and 18 mm (?)O2 sensors depending on the year.

Warranty, still good?  I got the 5 year warranty so don't want to screw it up!!  On that subject, will the dealer install it for me?? 

Thanks again, I am so glad I found this forum, you guys ROCK!!  BD1       

The ECM ships overnight in both directions , turnaround is 2-3 days

Here is a thread on the install--not too bad
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=58189.0

You need to get 09 headpipes with the O2 sensors up close to the exhaust ports.

Warranty---now this is where it get interesting...I read somehwere--please anybody chime in and confirm or tell me I am wrong--that after the ECM is modified that the dealer will no longer be able to read it with their tools. Is this right??? If so, then I am guessing warranty on the ECM is right out the window. Anybody have more info on this one?

And I doubt the dealer will put it in since the ECM gets sent out and modified, but I guess it won't hurt to ask. I know the ones on Long island wouldn't.

[revperf]

Mjb,

The dealer can absolutely read it with there existing tools.  It will act and react the same as a stock ECM with regards to DTC codes and other diagnostic tools.  I guess it would be up to the dealer but it would be treated the same as any other "flashing" type system such as TTS or PC Vision.  Hope this helps.  I know these things get confusing with the number that are available.  I like it though that customers have all these choices.

Brian

[mjb765]

Mjb,

The dealer can absolutely read it with there existing tools.  It will act and react the same as a stock ECM with regards to DTC codes and other diagnostic tools.  I guess it would be up to the dealer but it would be treated the same as any other "flashing" type system such as TTS or PC Vision.  Hope this helps.  I know these things get confusing with the number that are available.  I like it though that customers have all these choices.

Brian

Thanks Brian...that was the thing I was not sure about. One question...the install thread for the 05 shows an additonal module where the O2 sensors connect to. Is that the same for the '11 or am I going to use the factory O2 sensor conenctors and not need the additional module?

[timo482]

there CAN be issues with warranty

first issue is epa tampering - changing any of the things you list is epa tampering - that may or may not get you in trouble and may or may not cause warranty trouble - depending on the mood of the service writer the day you show up & how well you get along with them and how much bux you spend with them.

second is modifications - the first two years - they have to prove that your mods did damage and then the warranty is "poof" if you have bux for lawyers you will get more warranty than if not - but if the lawyer cost more than the repair, then who cares......

third is the extended - the extended is a "extended service contract" NOT A WARRANTY when you sign it you say that you wont change ANYTHING and that anything changed voids the service contract for that item or group - ie powertrain is a group

so when you do engine, air, exh, tune mods - you may or may not depending on the mercy of your dealer get any coverage for the engine - the rest of the bike will be fine. however be assured that if the engine pukes and it has performance exh, air, tune - you will be very careful of who and what you do and say to get coverage of anything on the engine.

dealers will often extend a "dealer" warranty to work done in there shop with there parts - but that is NOT a mfg warranty.

if you take it home and do a bunch of work at home using ebay parts & it pukes - you have a very low chance of getting any warranty work on the powertrain.

if you take it to the dealer and spend big bux and it pukes that particular dealer will likely repair it free - but the dealer three states away will charge you for the repair.

to

[Spiderman]

I think the important thing in this thread is that we all gain a better understanding of what products do what when connected to your Harley-Davidson irregardless of how they connect. We get into arguments on this website over things that are not always apples for apples. I find that to be one of the few things about the site that frustrates the hell out of me. Personal preference I understand and can live with but you know sometimes when we are speaking of engine upgrades etc etc, some of the posts are like a guy comparing a .22 pistol to one of those new monster S&W .50 caliber handguns. In any event, the more people who contribute to this thread with posts about the types of systems available, personal experiences with them and so forth the better all of us for it. Even if at the end of the day, some of us still stick with what we feel works best , it's nice to read of the new products from hands on users. And I mean everyday hands on users. I recently corresponded with an industry "expert" and commented to him as to why he and his other magazine editor buddies always use each other for road tests and comparison. Why not poll some everyday riders, folks like us here on cvoharley on their opinion of a product. He had no answer for me so I won't publish his name. OK, I digress. I just wanted to thank those who have provided some valuable insite into what is a very complicated subject and hope that there's more to come. This is one thread I've been following very closely

B B

[smiley1049]

Now what happens if you buy a extended warranty before your two years are up and the mods are already done as you wont be changing anything after that ?

[Spiderman]

Now what happens if you buy a extended warranty before your two years are up and the mods are already done as you wont be changing anything after that ?

Here's my take which is why I stopped buying the ESP. If you take your emotions out of the picture (and your wallet) and look at this issue as a 3rd party with no vested interest, how would you see it ? Myself, I would expect Harley-Davidson Inc. to warranty their product as manufactured and sold to the consumer and only as such. Any modifications would void the warranty- - - period. That H-D Inc has allowed this issue to become so many shades of gray is in large part due to the success of their Screamin Eagle brand of performance parts. Let's look at this in a different manner. What does anyone think would have happened as to the courts, and the NTSB et al with regard to the Toyota's with sticking gas pedals had the owners of these vehicles made modifications to the engines and electronic systems ? The way I see it is if you can't afford to fix your bike in the event of a failure should you choose to modify it from the way it was delivered to you then you shouldn't be making those modifications. You can't have it both ways. If you buy a stock bike and it breaks down then YES, the factory should cover the cost of repair within the time frame established by whatever warranty or warranties you hold on that motorcycel. If you modify that motorcycle- - - - you're on your own.

B B

[petewerner]

I'm using the V&H true duals, do I need to order the '09 pipes for the correct size o2 sensor?  I've read in other threads talk about 12 mm and 18 mm (?)O2 sensors depending on the year.

     

The ECM ships overnight in both directions , turnaround is 2-3 days

Here is a thread on the install--not too bad
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=58189.0

You need to get 09 headpipes with the O2 sensors up close to the exhaust ports.

I have an 11 FLTRx with V&H Power Duals, will this combo accept the Rev. Perf. system?

[Twolanerider]

I have an 11 FLTRx with V&H Power Duals, will this combo accept the Rev. Perf. system?

They don't have the product yet released for 2011 bikes.

[RedDevil]

They don't have the product yet released for 2011 bikes.

WTF good are they?   

[Twolanerider]

WTF good are they?   

Hard to doubt that a few foul oaths sharing the same sentiment have been said within their own walls as they've worked to get the bugs out.

[petewerner]

Hi Brian!!! I will be happy to donate my bike and my riding it as a tester of the 2011/2012 version of this system!