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Author Topic: Stage 1 Options on a 2011  (Read 4333 times)

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cliffy

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Stage 1 Options on a 2011
« on: June 12, 2011, 10:32:04 AM »

I've done just over 5000 miles on my 2011 Convertible and I'm now seriously thinking about doing the Stage 1. There seems to be numerous options for the tuner and pipes and was wondering what everyone else has done. Which tuner and pipes work the best. I do carry a pillion quite often on long trips so I don't want pipes that I'm going to be constantly cleaning of bits of melted materials. Space under the seat is limited so I was thinking about going with the SE Race Tuner (which I'm told takes up less space) with either V&H 2 in 1 Big Radius or a V&H 2 in 1 Pro Pipe.

Any pics will be much appreciated.

Out of interest I'm very happy with the stock performance but everyone tells me it will run better (cooler) with the Stage 1. Is this true?
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duranh

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Re: Stage 1 Options on a 2011
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2011, 12:15:37 PM »

There are so many options out there, and even more opinions than that...

 I will share my opinion of Stage 1 in general. Save a little longer and take care of those Cams at the same time. It will save you a trip to the dyno @ 400.00 or so, you will get more power and a better running engine. The stock cams have little or no overlap, so the entire scavenging efficiency thing is out the window.

Personally of the two pipes you mention the Pro Pipe would be my first choice, but you are on the right track for a performance exhaust.

Once you get a tuner such as the SE, or TTS, Power Commander and the bike is properly tuned then yes it will run cooler, from the MoCo they are lean as can be to pass EPA this makes them hot. You add a little more fuel and they cool down.
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Midnight Rider

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Re: Stage 1 Options on a 2011
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2011, 03:03:01 PM »

I've done just over 5000 miles on my 2011 Convertible and I'm now seriously thinking about doing the Stage 1. There seems to be numerous options for the tuner and pipes and was wondering what everyone else has done. Which tuner and pipes work the best. I do carry a pillion quite often on long trips so I don't want pipes that I'm going to be constantly cleaning of bits of melted materials. Space under the seat is limited so I was thinking about going with the SE Race Tuner (which I'm told takes up less space) with either V&H 2 in 1 Big Radius or a V&H 2 in 1 Pro Pipe.

Any pics will be much appreciated.

Out of interest I'm very happy with the stock performance but everyone tells me it will run better (cooler) with the Stage 1. Is this true?

Space under the seat is not an issue with the SE Tuner or the TTS, as neither resides there after tuning...either of those devices is simply an interface "black box" from the ECM to the Laptop or Computer system used for tuning.  I haven't looked at the new version of the Powercommander, so cannot comment on that device...the old ones did piggyback to the ECM, so stayed there all the time.  If you plan on having the bike Dyno'd, it would probably be best to find a good tuner (just having a Dyno does not mean the shop/person knows how to properly tune your bike), and then ask him/her what device they recommend using, as that will be what they are most familiar with.  There are other ways to skin this cat as well, by putting a "self tuning" device on the bike, with wide band O2 sensors in place of the narrow bands that come on the bike.  All of them, if done right, will make the bike run somewhat cooler, give better performance, and better drivability.
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MontereyJack

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Re: Stage 1 Options on a 2011
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2011, 07:05:30 PM »

As far as I know TTS is not ready yet. So the only game in town that I know of is Harley race tuner. If I am wrong let me know I want to up grade also but waiting on a tuner other than Harley
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Midnight Rider

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Re: Stage 1 Options on a 2011
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2011, 11:36:00 AM »

As far as I know TTS is not ready yet. So the only game in town that I know of is Harley race tuner. If I am wrong let me know I want to up grade also but waiting on a tuner other than Harley

You are correct about the TTS...I was not aware of the fact that the Convertible has a different ECM than the other HD models until someone let me know (Jerry) in another thread.  The SE race tuner is probably your only option at this point in time.
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Sometimes it takes a whole tankful of fuel before you can think straight.
I had the right to remain silent, just not the ability...

Gone, but not forgotten...2011 FLTRUSE with
Fullsac X Pipe w/2" Baffles
Legend Air Ride Rear Shocks
Traxxion Dynamics AK-20 Front Suspension
Clearview GT13 Windshield
TTS Mastertune

Mach

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Re: Stage 1 Options on a 2011
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2011, 06:16:50 AM »

I will share my opinion of Stage 1 in general. Save a little longer and take care of those Cams at the same time. It will save you a trip to the dyno @ 400.00 or so, you will get more power and a better running engine. The stock cams have little or no overlap, so the entire scavenging efficiency thing is out the window.

Duranh can you please explain this to me.  I am on the fence with my bike.  I was looking at the Screamin Eagle Pro 110 Performance Up grade Kit with a V&H Pro Pipe.  Of course the HD shop says to do it.  But I do not know the REAL pros and cons.  I am planning to call another shop to see what they say.  Any input would be great!  Hope I am not hijacking this thread  :jack:
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cliffy

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Re: Stage 1 Options on a 2011
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2011, 11:49:05 AM »

Mach, After much thought I've decided to go with the SE tuner and the V&H Pro Pipe. This actually seems a very common configuration on the 2011 Convertible. I would have liked the V&H 2 into 1 Big Radius pipes but I've been told by V&H that they won't work with the stock bags and also even if they did work, which I believe they might, the Big Radius pipes would probably be very tiring for a pillion. So as I do a lot of touring I've ruled them out.

I spoke to a local good Power Commander tuner who confirmed that the current version of the PC will not work with the new HDLAN cabling on the Convertible.

Anyway I'm playing safe and going with the SE tuner and V&H 2 into 1 Pro Pipe. It's quite expensive at £1,230, but I think it's the best option.I've not actually read a bad word about that combination. It's being fitted on June 29th. 
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duranh

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Re: Stage 1 Options on a 2011
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2011, 06:06:41 PM »

Duranh can you please explain this to me.  I am on the fence with my bike.  I was looking at the Screamin Eagle Pro 110 Performance Up grade Kit with a V&H Pro Pipe.  Of course the HD shop says to do it.  But I do not know the REAL pros and cons.  I am planning to call another shop to see what they say.  Any input would be great!  Hope I am not hijacking this thread  :jack:

It probably is a hijack of the thread but since he has already answered his own question I suppose it is OK.  :P 

There are others on this forum with far deeper knowledge and better abilities when it comes to sharing that knowledge but I will give it a try.

The stock cams do not open the valves fast enough, far enough or keep them open long enough for the motor to run like it could. One of the ways that HD is able to get these bikes to pass the EPA tests is to greatly reduce this valve overlap, or if you bought your bike in Cali, eliminate the overlap altogether. This keeps the raw fuel from escaping through the exhaust and reduces emissions so they pass the test. Another thing that they do is run the fuel as lean as possible so that all of the fuel that goes into the cylinder is used up and none or very little makes it out of the tail pipe.

My personal opinion is that going to a High Flow intake, exhaust and adding a tuner is a step in the right direction and will solve the lean air/fuel mixture issues it is not money well spent unless you add the right cam to the mix as well.

It is possible to actually get more air/fuel in to the cylinder than the volume of space would normally allow. Having a slight overlap in your valve timing is what makes this to happen. As the spent hot air is going out of your cylinder through the exhaust it creates a bit of a vacuum, so while the air is rushing out of the cylinder it actually pulls the new fresh air in, allowing you to get more that 100% efficiency. More A/F you have in the cylinder when the plug ignites the bigger the explosion, the greater the power. This is scavenging in a nut shell.

One more thing that helps with this is a good tuned exhaust, Pro-Pipe is a great choice and I have run several in the past on different bikes. Just think of it this way, allowing more air into and out of your motor will help, but allowing more air through your motor will help much more.

This is a much simpler quote from some auto site.

The operation of intake and exhaust valves overlaps nearing the end of the exhaust stroke because the intake valve actually starts to open before the piston has completed its travel to the top of the cylinder. The overlap is supposed to take advantage of the scavenging effect whereby the sudden rush of air-fuel mixture suddenly entering the combustion chamber forces more of the exhaust gases out of it. Overlapping the intake and exhaust strokes also makes engine run more smoothly.

 

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2smoke

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Re: Stage 1 Options on a 2011
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2011, 01:25:12 PM »

So what cam have people been going with on their 110" motors?  Any dyno sheets out there for comparison?
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etudeguy

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Re: Stage 1 Options on a 2011
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2011, 01:31:55 PM »

I put S&S 585's on mine.  Got 113 horsepower and 118 lbs. of torque.

Etudeguy
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myanoch

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Re: Stage 1 Options on a 2011
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2011, 04:13:38 PM »

I have the 585 cam in my s&s 117 its a good cam
I have ben debating on which  cams to put in  the cvo
The compression is low so i dont want to kill it with large cams
Does the 585 work good for you on bottom end sure is making power up stairs
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Mike

etudeguy

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Re: Stage 1 Options on a 2011
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2011, 07:41:30 PM »

The S&S 585's are great. They are performing even better than I had thought. My gas mileage has improved as well.

You asked about the bottom end.  The performance is outstanding from bottom to the top.

I purchased the geared cams over the chain driven ones so I wouldn't have to worry about them later on.

Etudeguy
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Mach

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Re: Stage 1 Options on a 2011
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2011, 08:39:28 PM »

Cliffy,  Thanks!  I ordered the V&H Pro Pipe with SE Tuner.  I figured I would wait till I see how this goes before I add cams.  The shop actually talked me out of the upgrade performance kit.  They didn't like the idea of putting high compression pistons in unless I was running race fuel  :nixweiss:  This is good, give me time and maybe add a few things in the off season.

Thanks again!
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PierceEye

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Re: Stage 1 Options on a 2011
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2011, 09:04:46 PM »

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2smoke

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Re: Stage 1 Options on a 2011
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2011, 10:31:05 AM »

I put S&S 585's on mine.  Got 113 horsepower and 118 lbs. of torque.

Etudeguy
That is impressive.  What RPM is peak torque at?
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etudeguy

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Re: Stage 1 Options on a 2011
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2011, 03:02:34 PM »

2smoke
Peak RPM is at 5300. I have D&D Fat Cats 2 into 1.  When I first put them on my numbers were 89 HP and 107 LBS of torque.  Then with the 585 S&S cams it went up to 113 HP and 118 LBS of torque.  I live in Houston where it is hot and high humidity so if I were to put my bike on the Dyno on a cooler day with low humidity then my numbers would be even higher.

Etudeguy
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2smoke

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Re: Stage 1 Options on a 2011
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2011, 03:00:05 PM »

2smoke
Peak RPM is at 5300. I have D&D Fat Cats 2 into 1.  When I first put them on my numbers were 89 HP and 107 LBS of torque.  Then with the 585 S&S cams it went up to 113 HP and 118 LBS of torque.  I live in Houston where it is hot and high humidity so if I were to put my bike on the Dyno on a cooler day with low humidity then my numbers would be even higher.

Etudeguy
Those are killer numbers.  I need to know more.  We just put S & S gear drive cams in my son's '05 Fatboy 95 incher.  We did not want to remove the cylinders or replace the valve springs so we went with the .505" cams.  I want to go the same route on my 110.  Did you replace your stock valve springs?  Is your engine using stock pistons and compression ratio?  Basically, I want to just install the S & S gear drive cam kit with no mods to the valve train (other than push rods). 
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MontereyJack

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Re: Stage 1 Options on a 2011
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2011, 10:14:16 AM »

Still no word on the TTS?
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etudeguy

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Re: Stage 1 Options on a 2011
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2011, 06:08:35 PM »

2smoke
Sorry for the delay in answering your question. I am presently on a long bike trip so I hadn't checked the site.

Well I didn't change the pistons on my bike but I did have a polymer coating put on them. Here is who did it and one can read about the effect of a polymer coating: www.polydyn.com
The cost wasn't that much either. I think around $100. They also worked on my heads which was one of the reasons I got such good numbers.

Also, yes I did replace the valve springs and put in adjustable push rods.

I will be going into Canada tomorrow on the Convertible and by the time I get back home I will have logged around 5,000 miles on the beauty.

So far she's running great and my wife and I are having the time of our lives.

Etudeguy
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bobne

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Re: Stage 1 Options on a 2011
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2011, 09:22:02 AM »

I asked the top dyno shop in town about tuners. They stated use either the SE Tuner or a Power Commander. They stated the TTS is not reliable. Also, I'm putting a Corbin seat on my 2010 and the power commander might not fit, as it sits under the seat. I have a power commander 5 on my 2009 night rod special and it does take up a lot of room under the seat.
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SBB

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Re: Stage 1 Options on a 2011
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2011, 10:59:05 AM »

They stated use either the SE Tuner or a Power Commander. They stated the TTS is not reliable.

That is a shop I would stay clear of.
Whoever said that about the Mastertune is an idiot.

 ;)

SBB
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